AMD ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 @ [H]

Good review.

I was anxiously awaiting a CrossfireX report as well.
I have been playing with X2 in Crossfire for the last two weeks and really want to see what you guys got in games that I did or did not get.

In COD4 I dont see much of an advantage.
In Crysis my Crossfire just sucks, plain and simple. It's playable but I wished for more.
In HL2 Ep2 I can mop the floor at 24X CFAA.

I like my CrossfireX, and I hope it shines in the new releases coming up, given better driver support.
 
magoo said:
Good review.

I was anxiously awaiting a CrossfireX report as well.
I have been playing with X2 in Crossfire for the last two weeks and really want to see what you guys got in games that I did or did not get.

In COD4 I dont see much of an advantage.
In Crysis my Crossfire just sucks, plain and simple. It's playable but I wished for more.
In HL2 Ep2 I can mop the floor at 24X CFAA.

I like my CrossfireX, and I hope it shines in the new releases coming up, given better driver support.
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x2, seeing your results, my results, and hoping to see what [H] says has me questioning whether I should keep or sell my 2nd card :(
 
MeTaSpARKs said:
The hardware reviewers here at HardOCP stray towards almost being NVidia biased. Even the paragraph quoted from the review on the main page says next to nothing about the results of the tests on the ATI card. It just has a few sentences stating what the NVidia alternative is... with a confusing caveat statement.

Let's appear a little more objective and give AMD some credit where credit is due (ON THE MAIN PAGE).
Click to expand...

Thanks for your opinion. You stray towards almost being relevant. :rolleyes:
 
Grid is an interesting game. I have 2 4850's in crossfire on my P5B deluxe, and I must say it looks awesome. All settings are maxed, and at 1280X1024, framerates are incredible. However, I would note I've never seen the drift/smoke fps dive that you guys saw.
 
jh24 said:
Thanks for the very detailed review. I really enjoyed reading it and I'm glad to see that later drivers improved performance. Very impressive. What I also found impressive was that the GTX 260 SLI performed so well, I had no idea.



I was wondering, the slowdowns in Grid when there was for example smoke, does this have to do with the drivers or the card being pushed?


Thanks again for a great and very well done review.
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IMO it seems more likely to do with the nature of CrossFire and multi-GPU efficiency. Certain graphical effects scale poorly across GPUs unless special care is given to make it more efficient in a game.
 
Modred189 said:
Grid is an interesting game. I have 2 4850's in crossfire on my P5B deluxe, and I must say it looks awesome. All settings are maxed, and at 1280X1024, framerates are incredible. However, I would note I've never seen the drift/smoke fps dive that you guys saw.
Click to expand...

At 1280 resolution, I am not doubtful that you see many bottlenecks at all. Time to invest in a bigger display.
 
Well he was right, I don't know why it was acting that way before, but with 8x AA through game FPS average goes from 17 avg to 15, still 16 AF.

Doesn't feel 15 FPS at all, more like 30, why does crysis feel smooth even if FPS is reported low.?
 
Ste said:
Well he was right, I don't know why it was acting that way before, but with 8x AA through game FPS average goes from 17 avg to 15, still 16 AF.

Doesn't feel 15 FPS at all, more like 30, why does crysis feel smooth even if FPS is reported low.?
Click to expand...

From the article:

Note that in the graphs, we have lowered our redline to 25 FPS for Crysis. This game is demanding, and low framerates are impossible to avoid, gameplay is also different in this game to where 25 FPS and up feels very playable, very likely due to the efficient use of motion blur. Note that the down-spikes to 0 FPS in the graphs are due to the saved game points.
Click to expand...
 
Looks to be as good of a card as I thought! Anyone know if it will fit into a Sonata III? Also, is [H] not doing the game play advantages under the data tables anymore?
 
In the Age of Conan benchmark in the 4870x2 preview the 1 4870x2 beat GTX280s in SLI, but in this review it can't beat GTX260s in SLI. Is it a driver problem?
 
Excellent review...it was worth the wait...damn those gtx280s are strong...hopefully nvidia can make something better from their labs...

single pcie slot FTW
 
Thank you very much for the review, Brent and Kyle.

Ste said:
Well he was right, I don't know why it was acting that way before, but with 8x AA through game FPS average goes from 17 avg to 15, still 16 AF.

Doesn't feel 15 FPS at all, more like 30, why does crysis feel smooth even if FPS is reported low.?
Click to expand...
What kinds of fps do you get with 2xaa and 4xaa? Are they below 25 fps avg as well?
 
Hondacity said:
Excellent review...it was worth the wait...damn those gtx280s are strong...hopefully nvidia can make something better from their labs...

single pcie slot FTW
Click to expand...

Um.... the GTX cards take two expansion slots, just like the R700.

Another question about this review. It seems that just about every other review shows the R700 beating the GTX280 in almost every game, yet Hard is posing just about the opposite? Also, Kyle, drop Crysis for the love of God. The game is a piece of shit, I don't know of anyone that still plays the thing. You might as well do reviews with other games that no one plays anymore.
 
Kyle

You said, "In our evaluation the only game GeForce GTX 260 SLI did not provide a better gameplay experience in was Call of Duty 4, and that is mostly due to a game limitation. GeForce GTX 260 SLI is both faster and cheaper than a Radeon HD 4870 X2. Does it make better sense to choose 260 GTX SLI over a single 4870 X2?"

How wasn't it a better gameplay experience? The 260 SLI had the highest minimum and highest maximum frame rates. ??
Was it stuttering because of it's "game limitation"??

What's up with that comment?

Update: This must be it, "The GeForce GTX 260 SLI setup cannot force any AA setting over 4X AA due to the game limitation. Therefore 4X AA with TRSS AA was playable at 2560x1600 with no problems at all."
 
UGH. I have 300+ dollars coming up, and an athlon x2... Should I buy V_V My system weeps because of it's current GX2.

Kyle, I hate you :) For once more leaving me questioning everything I thought I knew. Thanks. Jerk :D

I think I might buy one. DAMNIT
 
0mega said:
UGH. I have 300+ dollars coming up, and an athlon x2... Should I buy V_V My system weeps because of it's current GX2.

Kyle, I hate you :) For once more leaving me questioning everything I thought I knew. Thanks. Jerk :D

I think I might buy one. DAMNIT
Click to expand...

Ugh. I'm trying to decide whether I should get a 4870x2, GTX 280, GTX 260 or a single 4870 at 1920 x 1080 res :p. Moar price warz!

This 7600GS ain't cutting it... ;)
 
Gaiden133 said:
Ugh. I'm trying to decide whether I should get a 4870x2, GTX 280, GTX 260 or a single 4870 at 1920 x 1080 res :p. Moar price warz!

This 7600GS ain't cutting it... ;)
Click to expand...

How the hell do you live with yourself? A q6600 stuck behind something with a GS label... You cruel person :p
 
@ Justice,,

Do Most games need some type of AA to be enabled( IN GAME) for the card to even Intialize AA when forced through CCC?

Does this sound right,, if you have the Ingame AA disabled you wont get AA even if the Card is set @16aa?

So to have any AA i would need to set a Minamal AA setting,,( INGAME AA to say 2x) ,,for the 4870x2 to be able to use 16AA in CCC (forced in game)?..

I have the 3870x2 and will be getting a 4870x2 once the price falls a little more for second PC,, This is why im asking about its AA function (INGAME)

Where as My 3870x2 runs it fine from what i can see in Crysis. i Also get a nice 30+fps average with all set to high ingame and 16x CCC with it to @1280x1024...

Almost forgot,, is the BETA 8.8// 8.52.2 beter to run ATM than the 8.8 official for single card In XPsp3 ?


@GAIDEN133
Sorry to cut the thread get a ATI:D ditch the 7600.
 
!gOtVolTage! said:
@ Justice,,

Do Most games need some type of AA to be enabled( IN GAME) for the card to even Intialize AA when forced through CCC?

Does this sound right,, if you have the Ingame AA disabled you wont get AA even if the Card is set @16aa?

So to have any AA i would need to set a Minamal AA setting,,( INGAME AA to say 2x) ,,for the 4870x2 to be able to use 16AA in CCC (forced in game)?..

I have the 3870x2 and will be getting a 4870x2 once the price falls a little more for second PC,, This is why im asking about its AA function (INGAME)

Where as My 3870x2 runs it fine from what i can see in Crysis. i Also get a nice 30+fps average with all set to high ingame and 16x CCC with it to @1280x1024...

Almost forgot,, is the BETA 8.8// 8.52.2 beter to run ATM than the 8.8 official for single card In XPsp3 ?
Click to expand...

The 8.9 beta driver is the 8.540 driver. The 8.7 Release driver is 8.52. As far as I know the 8.9 beta doesn't work with Windows XP. I've tried the 4870 X2 in one of my machines running Windows XP Professional Service Pack 3 without any issues while using the 8.8 Release driver.
 
0mega said:
How the hell do you live with yourself? A q6600 stuck behind something with a GS label... You cruel person :p
Click to expand...

I know, it makes me sad to see my rig every day lol. Every single part in my rig is all high end except one of the most important parts haha.. But then again, I've had no reason yet.. still waiting on the games to pour in this fall.. which should be soon ;)

yang88she said:
w/ your current mobo, I'd suggest an ATi card ;)
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I'm just waiting on a [H]otDeal to pop up for either the 4870 or 4870x2 to be honest.. :D preferably VisionTek! Or.. if the gtx 280 can be had for near 350 levels, I may pull the trigger too.
 
SixtyWattMan said:
In the Age of Conan benchmark in the 4870x2 preview the 1 4870x2 beat GTX280s in SLI, but in this review it can't beat GTX260s in SLI. Is it a driver problem?
Click to expand...

I think I read somewhere that AoC fixed SLI scaling. AoC scaling was horriffic at launch.
 
SixtyWattMan said:
In the Age of Conan benchmark in the 4870x2 preview the 1 4870x2 beat GTX280s in SLI, but in this review it can't beat GTX260s in SLI. Is it a driver problem?
Click to expand...

my question too, i thought the 4870 seemed a bit faster? is it a driver related issue? does the newer beta driver fix that?
 
vengence said:
I think I read somewhere that AoC fixed SLI scaling. AoC scaling was horriffic at launch.
Click to expand...

Age of Conan is being constantly updated. I've experienced some updates hurting performance and some help it. Multi-GPU performance has greatly improved however since the game's launch.
 
SixtyWattMan said:
In the Age of Conan benchmark in the 4870x2 preview the 1 4870x2 beat GTX280s in SLI, but in this review it can't beat GTX260s in SLI. Is it a driver problem?
Click to expand...

Let's look at what we have here.

4870x2 PREVIEW
1215976304wcOJlico3z_4_3.gif



4870x2 REVIEW
1220401263YWkYFM5W6c_4_1.gif


First let's look at what we have that is the same.

We saw better results with the 4870X2 on the review with identical settings. Did not impact usability at 1920 and did allow gaming at 2560 which is a very close to the Preview results.

The GTX 280 is identical in both. We need to ask Brent if we reused data, which we do when we can.

The GTX 260 SLI allowed a better gaming experience than we saw with the GTX 280 SLI in the Preview. Better AA at 1920 and allowed ~equal gaming (8xQ AA vs. 8X CSAA) at 2560 as well.

GTX 280 SLI was NOT tested in the review.

Now if you scroll down in the PREVIEW you will see:

1215976304wcOJlico3z_4_7.gif



Given both GTX SLI setups used driver 177.41, this really leaves us to look at the game.

Preview was published on July 14, the review on September 3.

Here is a list of game updates that could have impacted this.

Age of Conan Game Update - 28th August 28th

Age of Conan Game Update - 19th August 19th

Age of Conan Game Update - 17th July 17th

Age of Conan Game Update - 10th July 10th
Click to expand...

While there is nothing specific to SLI, you can see that MANY changes are being made to the game all the time. I would say cross comparing reviews over months of time is not the thing to do. I am looking around on this though for something more definitive.

That all said, we have an SLI article coming up soon.
 
As a 30" monitor user, I'm just waiting for new games to come out now, since even a single 4870X2 is holding down pretty much anything except for Crysis at 2560 x 1600. Two years ago, having a 2560x1600 monitor and multi-GPU setup still wasn't enough

Now to begin the OC of my QX9650 (hoping for 4GHz+ on water...) and I'm waiting for my full cover block on my 4870x2 (might as well vmod it while i'm at it :p)
 
SixtyWattMan said:
In the Age of Conan benchmark in the 4870x2 preview the 1 4870x2 beat GTX280s in SLI, but in this review it can't beat GTX260s in SLI. Is it a driver problem?
Click to expand...

The driver is the same version used on all NV cards here as we used in the preview, I did re-use GTX 280 OC data since the driver is the same and I saw no patches that affect single-GPU performance. There have been several game updates to AoC that may affect SLI performance however, but we didn't re-test 280 SLI because it wasn't in this review. We have an article coming up where we will re-test 280 SLI in AoC. Also keep in mind that the 260 SLI setup was also playable at the same settings as the 280 SLI setup, at 8xQ AA. Also, in a game like AoC perf can vary anyway just with the number of NPCs online and visible in the world, it is the nature of the type of game that it is. In the world of gaming with patches and drivers and so forth performance can easily change.
 
!gOtVolTage! said:
@ Justice,,

Do Most games need some type of AA to be enabled( IN GAME) for the card to even Intialize AA when forced through CCC?

Does this sound right,, if you have the Ingame AA disabled you wont get AA even if the Card is set @16aa?

So to have any AA i would need to set a Minamal AA setting,,( INGAME AA to say 2x) ,,for the 4870x2 to be able to use 16AA in CCC (forced in game)?..

I have the 3870x2 and will be getting a 4870x2 once the price falls a little more for second PC,, This is why im asking about its AA function (INGAME)

Where as My 3870x2 runs it fine from what i can see in Crysis. i Also get a nice 30+fps average with all set to high ingame and 16x CCC with it to @1280x1024...

Almost forgot,, is the BETA 8.8// 8.52.2 beter to run ATM than the 8.8 official for single card In XPsp3 ?


@GAIDEN133
Sorry to cut the thread get a ATI:D ditch the 7600.
Click to expand...

Some games do not allow you to force AA from the control panel due to how their AA is programmed in the game. It is always the best practice to utilize the in-game settings if available for AA and AF to get the best image quality and performance. Only use the control panel if the game doesn't have those options. However, the control panel does need to be used to enable the CFAA modes (Edge Detect) filter and Adaptive AA.
 
This was probably already mentioned, but what driver version was used for the 4870x2? I'm guessing your using the official 8.8s. Did you guys by chance try to use the 8.54 betas?
 
Brent_Justice said:
Official 8.8 WHQL.
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Ok, in that case, the review certainly makes sense to me. I think the official 8.8s cage this beast. I think the Grid numbers seem very low. Wish you could of ran a 1920x1200 bench with grid so I could try to reproduce your results. On the positive side power play is working with those drivers....and the 4870 idle power usage is even more impressive. Overall I find that your review is not on par with most of the other reviews out there...and that the 4870x2 is under-performing....but I would attribute this to the drivers you are using.
 
Many do claim they rush right to the benchmarks and don't even look at the test system specs.
Fast food times we live in...
 
BigCactus said:
Ok, in that case, the review certainly makes sense to me. I think the official 8.8s cage this beast. I think the Grid numbers seem very low. Wish you could of ran a 1920x1200 bench with grid so I could try to reproduce your results. On the positive side power play is working with those drivers....and the 4870 idle power usage is even more impressive. Overall I find that your review is not on par with most of the other reviews out there...and that the 4870x2 is under-performing....but I would attribute this to the drivers you are using.
Click to expand...
Welll they are the drivers available at launch. I never use beta drivers, and most of my buddies don't either, as the performance gains are often not worth the stability issues (especially with my own 8800GT, nvidia I know). AS such, it really only makes sense to use the most up to date STABLE, final build drivers to test. Who cares about your performance if the stability sucks....
I think that really also ties into the real-world benchmarking [H] uses.

Oh, and way to rtfa
 
Regardless of what drivers they are using, the benchmarks seem a lot lower then most of the review sites...especially in Grid at 2560x1600.
 
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