AMD announces Ryzen 7000 Zen 4 CPUs

schmide said:
I don't know if you compensated for it but.

If your Kill A Watt is pulling 700w your components are pulling 80-85% x 700w = 560-600w. Even less if you measured upstream of your UPS.

2 pumps + 15 fans is a lot of stuff but still under 100w.

I stopped using a ups because, at least the few I've had just injected noise into and out of the the AC. My power almost never goes out anyways. Nuclear -> 20mi high tension -> substation -> underground
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I am no longer using the UPS, I'm straight into the Kill A Watt. I just tested Flight Sim. Without PBO and the cpu package drawing a max of 145 watts, the Kill A Watt was hovering around 653 watts. Back when I was using PBO, cpu package would hit 220 watts. So add 75 watts for PBO and you are looking at around 725 watts at the wall. I'm using a Seasonic Prime Gold 850, so assume 85% efficiency and the computer is drawing close to 620 watts, give or take, just a little higher than you estimated.
 
Axman said:
APUs make sense, and so does an 8c/16t gaming part for people who felt like the 5800X3D was more of a side-grade than an upgrade.
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Its definately making me hold off on a 5000 series cpu for the moment.
 
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Ranulfo said:
Its definately making me hold off on a 5000 series cpu for the moment.
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If it does become a reality, it would be a very, very smart move on AMD's part. Yeah, some people will feel burned, especially I think the 5800X3D buyers, but it would be a giant middle finger to Intel and convince new buyers that AM5 will see similar long-life support.
 
Axman said:
If it does become a reality, it would be a very, very smart move on AMD's part. Yeah, some people will feel burned, especially I think the 5800X3D buyers, but it would be a giant middle finger to Intel and convince new buyers that AM5 will see similar long-life support.
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Yeah, I'm skeptical but it could end up being another 1600AF scenario at least.
 
Axman said:
especially I think the 5800X3D buyers
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Being a 5800x -> 5800x3d* owner who basically side graded into it. I'm ok with it. Moar power to the AM4**. I never buy into a new socket. Never say never***

* i give my cast offs to friends and family
** AM4+ asking for a friend
*** Romeo Void not that Bieber carp
 
Axman said:
I don't think anyone saw this coming:



Be interesting if this bears fruit. It's just a rumor, after all.
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If this is at all real----IMO what this should end up being first, is a 5650x3D. A 6 core chip with Zen 4 silicon/process node, backported to AM4 socket and DDR4 memory. Resulting in clocks not worse than 5600x (maybe better, despite the heat/voltage issue for stacked cache), a little better IPC, and that sweet cache------at $300 street price.

5800x3D is cool. but dang it is expensive. And more than 6 cores is a negligeble improvement in many games. Whereas having that cache at a lower price point, would be amazing.
 
chameleoneel said:
If this is at all real----IMO what this should end up being first, is a 5650x3D. A 6 core chip with Zen 4 silicon/process node, backported to AM4 socket and DDR4 memory. Resulting in clocks not worse than 5600x (maybe better, despite the heat/voltage issue for stacked cache), a little better IPC, and that sweet cache------at $300 street price.

5800x3D is cool. but dang it is expensive. And more than 6 cores is a negligeble improvement in many games. Whereas having that cache at a lower price point, would be amazing.
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That would be cool but that 3D stacked cache is expensive, getting it at a cheaper price point would be hard to pull off.
 
Interesting enough that the B650 is only PCIe Gen 5 for storage and you would need to go to B650E to get Gen 5 support for both graphics and storage.. (not that it matters at this stage of the game though for Gen 5 GPU's)..

So many different product lines; seems to become more and more with each generation.... It's not so simple as picking one chipset to base your build around
 
jlbenedict said:
Interesting enough that the B650 is only PCIe Gen 5 for storage and you would need to go to B650E to get Gen 5 support for both graphics and storage.. (not that it matters at this stage of the game though for Gen 5 GPU's)..

So many different product lines; seems to become more and more with each generation.... It's not so simple as picking one chipset to base your build around
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Realistically Gen5 for storage would have a larger impact than Gen5 for GPU. In my servers, I have one server where having faster PCIe Speeds on my GPUs would make sense as I manage to bottleneck it there but that's because its running 4 accelerator cards in there, for consumer equipment I think it is going to be a generation or two before it matters for the majority of people if it's there or not. Really it's about the price, PCIe5 is expensive to lay the traces for so they need places they can cut corners on where it won't be noticed.
 
Lakados said:
Realistically Gen5 for storage would have a larger impact than Gen5 for GPU. In my servers, I have one server where having faster PCIe Speeds on my GPUs would make sense as I manage to bottleneck it there but that's because its running 4 accelerator cards in there, for consumer equipment I think it is going to be a generation or two before it matters for the majority of people if it's there or not. Really it's about the price, PCIe5 is expensive to lay the traces for so they need places they can cut corners on where it won't be noticed.
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If the main or only difference for the users side of storage I think it will take a very long while to matter.

Max speed of 7,880 MB/s on PCIe4x4, that 50% more than a PS5 ssd.

Rumours of Lovelace to stick to PCE-Express 4.0 do show you are right, at least PCI 5.0 storage will exist and usable by some at launch while we could have no use at all before the next gen of gpu around 2024 for almost everyone.
 
Given the longevity AMD typically gives their sockets, I think early adopters would benefit a lot from getting the higher-end boards with 5.0 for both.

The fact that they're giving 5.0 priority for storage goes back to what I've been saying for a while. Storage will be a bigger bottleneck moving forward than a lot of people think.
 
LukeTbk said:
If the main or only difference for the users side of storage I think it will take a very long while to matter.

Max speed of 7,880 MB/s on PCIe4x4, that 50% more than a PS5 ssd.

Rumours of Lovelace to stick to PCE-Express 4.0 do show you are right, at least PCI 5.0 storage will exist and usable by some at launch while we could have no use at all before the next gen of gpu around 2024 for almost everyone.
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Actually, probably the first "benefit" of a PCI-E 5.0 slot, will be similar situation to the RX 6600xt and RX 6600. They are PCI-E 4.0-----but only use an 8x multiplier. Which effectively makes them only able to use the same amount of bandwidth of PCI-E 3.0 x16. But if you put them into a PCI-E 3.0 slot----you get 3.0 8x, which hurts FPS. Especially for the 6600.

So....some later mid-range card will likely benefit from a 5.0 slot, in a similar way.
 
chameleoneel said:
Actually, probably the first "benefit" of a PCI-E 5.0 slot, will be similar situation to the RX 6600xt and RX 6600.
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AMD was caught with their pants down on that one. Those were designed to be laptop parts paired with APUs for OEMs.

Now, I'm not saying it's impossible for it to happen again in the future, but the fact that they're going to have console-power APUs down the line, and they've said they want to stop producing entry-level and even mid-range discrete GPUs, makes me doubt that the market will be able to force them to repeat that mistake.
 
LukeTbk said:
If the main or only difference for the users side of storage I think it will take a very long while to matter.

Max speed of 7,880 MB/s on PCIe4x4, that 50% more than a PS5 ssd.

Rumours of Lovelace to stick to PCE-Express 4.0 do show you are right, at least PCI 5.0 storage will exist and usable by some at launch while we could have no use at all before the next gen of gpu around 2024 for almost everyone.
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The PCIe5 specification also has some fun tidbits built in that give it expanded functionality over 4.0, it's not just about the speed.
For example, look at the new Phison E26 storage controllers https://www.storagereview.com/news/phison-e26-pcie-gen5-controller-specs-released
Most notably you have the compliance with the new base specification revisions which added a lot over 4.0 in terms of signaling and access controls, full details can be found here. https://pcisig.com/specifications?field_technology_value[]=express&field_revision_value[]=5&speclib=
but this could be the first set of steps for consumer-grade AI in games and applications, at least that's where I see the most immediate practical application of it but I am sure there are lots of others.
 
Axman said:
AMD was caught with their pants down on that one. Those were designed to be laptop parts paired with APUs for OEMs.

Now, I'm not saying it's impossible for it to happen again in the future, but the fact that they're going to have console-power APUs down the line, and they've said they want to stop producing entry-level and even mid-range discrete GPUs, makes me doubt that the market will be able to force them to repeat that mistake.
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Silicon is too expensive right now for AMD or anybody really to make entry-level discrete products, Intel can manage their lower end based on pure volume but that is not a luxury that AMD can afford. Raw silicon has doubled in price, and TSMC has increased its rates by 70% in the last year alone. Include increased costs to the other metals used in construction and you have a nearly 200% increase in just the costs needed to make the chips to put on a card let alone the cards themselves. So until the market fixes itself new entry-level GPU's are going to be few and far between.
And yeah AMD built those chips for mobile, but then couldn't supply them to OEMs in the quantity they demanded to launch a product with so AMD was stuck with chips and they needed to find a way to sell them.
 
Axman said:
AMD was caught with their pants down on that one. Those were designed to be laptop parts paired with APUs for OEMs.

Now, I'm not saying it's impossible for it to happen again in the future, but the fact that they're going to have console-power APUs down the line, and they've said they want to stop producing entry-level and even mid-range discrete GPUs, makes me doubt that the market will be able to force them to repeat that mistake.
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Nvidia did the same thing with the 3050, put it on an x8 multiplier. There's got to be a cost savings in there besides oops, accidentally made these.
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-3050-8-gb.c3858
 
chameleoneel said:
Nvidia did the same thing with the 3050, put it on an x8 multiplier. There's got to be a cost savings in there besides oops, accidentally made these.
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-3050-8-gb.c3858
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The RTX 3050 is drop-in pin-compatible with the 1650, the 1650 is Nvidia's largest selling chip for the OEM mobile market. Developing the 3050 allows those budget gaming laptops to have an upgrade that doesn't require a board redesign. It's also slightly cheaper to produce for NVidia because of silicon and manufacturing costs.
 
Axman said:
Given the longevity AMD typically gives their sockets, I think early adopters would benefit a lot from getting the higher-end boards with 5.0 for both.

The fact that they're giving 5.0 priority for storage goes back to what I've been saying for a while. Storage will be a bigger bottleneck moving forward than a lot of people think.
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Too bad TRX40 didn't have more than one generation. That be said, Zen 4 on TRX40, maybe rather cool. I just doubt all of this will happen for AM4.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I had no idea about this. I often see people talk about turning BGR screens upside down and rotating the desktop in orger to get RGB ClearType., but if that breaks VRR, that's a non-starter.
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I'm pretty convinced that virtually no one on the planet actually tries to use any of these niche/advanced features with each other, because it seems like whenever you try to use them, nothing works, and yet you don't see anyone on the internet complaining about it.
 
bigbluefe said:
I'm pretty convinced that virtually no one on the planet actually tries to use any of these niche/advanced features with each other, because it seems like whenever you try to use them, nothing works, and yet you don't see anyone on the internet complaining about it.
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The people that use them figure out how to make it work and realize they are the odd man out. But who do you yell at when it doesn’t work right, nobody supports it and virtually nobody uses it. The bartender that’s who.
 
Axman said:
AMD was caught with their pants down on that one. Those were designed to be laptop parts paired with APUs for OEMs.
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Are you and chameleoneel not mistaking the 6600XT and 6600 with the 6500XT and the 6400?
 
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AM5 motherboard reveal.
https://explore.amd.com/mte/aug-2022-component/register

Title: An Exclusive Look at Partner Products: A Showcase of The New AM5 Motherboards
Date: Thursday, August 4, 2022
Time: 12:00 PM (Eastern Daylight Time)
Duration: 1 hour

Summary​

Supporting the recent announcement of AMD Ryzen™ 7000 Series processors, the new AMD AM5 Chipset offers users high power performance across gaming, creating, and intensive computing tasks. Supporting DDR5 memory and PCIe® 5.0 for the world’s fastest NVMe storage, the AM5 platform introduces more performance, power, and possibilities than ever before.

In this webinar, join experts Mike Yang, Michiel Berkhout, Anny Hsu, Juan J. Guerrero, and Sofos Oikonomou. Learn about upcoming motherboards from partners such as ASRock, ASUS, BIOSTAR, GIGABYTE, and MSI on how their AM5 motherboards introduce cutting-edge features to the market and unlock the full power of AMD Ryzen™ 7000 Series processors.

What we’ll cover:

  • AM5 Ecosystem Solutions
    Socket AM5 X670 Extreme and X670
  • Flagship AM5 Motherboards
    Socket AM5 motherboard lineup, specifications, and features from ASUS, GIGABYTE, ASRock, MSI, and BIOSTAR
  • The Next Frontier of Ryzen™ Motherboards
    How the Socket AM5 platform and AMD Ryzen™ 7000 Series processors deliver unbeatable performance
 
I haven't been following motherboard development. Anyone think these newer platforms will have affordable motherboards (around $150) with 3 or 4 M.2 NVMe SSD slots? I've seen higher end boards with 3x slots but they tended to be higher priced. Hoping to upgrade to AM5 and plan to get a motherboard that will last another 4-5 years.
 
Flogger23m said:
I haven't been following motherboard development. Anyone think these newer platforms will have affordable motherboards (around $150) with 3 or 4 M.2 NVMe SSD slots? I've seen higher end boards with 3x slots but they tended to be higher priced. Hoping to upgrade to AM5 and plan to get a motherboard that will last another 4-5 years.
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Probably not a chance.

However you can always use PCI-E to M. 2 adapters for pretty cheap.
 
TheSlySyl said:
Probably not a chance.

However you can always use PCI-E to M. 2 adapters for pretty cheap.
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Don't really like those for airflow reasons. I suppose if you're going to buy adapters may as well pay up and get a higher end motherboard in the first place. Will be interesting to see what they offer.
 
Flogger23m said:
I haven't been following motherboard development. Anyone think these newer platforms will have affordable motherboards (around $150) with 3 or 4 M.2 NVMe SSD slots? I've seen higher end boards with 3x slots but they tended to be higher priced. Hoping to upgrade to AM5 and plan to get a motherboard that will last another 4-5 years.
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Looking at pc-part picker there is under $100, 3x m.2 NVME ssd slots motherboard right now:
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813157977?Item=N82E16813157977&nm_mc=AFC-RAN-COM&cm_mmc=AFC-RAN-COM&utm_medium=affiliates&utm_source=afc-PCPartPicker&AFFID=2558510&AFFNAME=PCPartPicker&ACRID=1&ASID=https://pcpartpicker.com/&ranMID=44583&ranEAID=2558510&ranSiteID=8BacdVP0GFs-WkhPxPB4FKXz28wm5aWXSg

M.2 Slots​

  • 2242/2260/2280 M-key (Intel Rocket Lake-based CPUs only)
  • 2242/2260/2280 M-key
  • 2280/22110 M-key
  • 2230 E-key
I would imagine we could start to see those, specially that CPU will handle 3 m.2 ssd directly on the intel side I think
 
Flogger23m said:
I haven't been following motherboard development. Anyone think these newer platforms will have affordable motherboards (around $150) with 3 or 4 M.2 NVMe SSD slots? I've seen higher end boards with 3x slots but they tended to be higher priced. Hoping to upgrade to AM5 and plan to get a motherboard that will last another 4-5 years.
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PCIe traces have gotten expensive and vendors are choosing to cut those more than not to keep costs down. I'm not saying it can't happen. Still, if it did I would expect to see those M.2 slots connected to the chipset and not the CPU directly and probably operating only at PCIe3 speeds and be pretty easy to cap out due to the restricted bandwidth to the chipset.
You are far more likely to find "cheap" MoBo's with an 8xPCIe slot that you can bifurcate and stick an M.2 break-out card onto.
 
Lakados said:
Still, if it did I would expect to see those M.2 slots connected to the chipset and not the CPU directly
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That interesting my thought was the exact opposite (cheaper to have the CPU handle the job than make a chipset that does it from the motherboard point of view), because of where the chipset would be versus the CPU, shorter trace ?
 
LukeTbk said:
That interesting my thought was the exact opposite (cheaper to have the CPU handle the job than make a chipset that does it from the motherboard point of view), because of where the chipset would be versus the CPU, shorter trace ?
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Not at all cheaper, the CPU only has 28 PCIe lanes, once you start subdividing them amongst the chipset, storage, the GPU, and all the other odds and ends you see them get burned up pretty quickly.
Here is a breakdown of the AM5 PCIe lane subdivision.
1659041097342.png


So really the AM5 package only has 8 descretionary PCIe lanes, which are more often than not going to be divided amongst other PCIe slots on the board, and the primary storage interface.
So while it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility to see a mITX style board with a pair of M.2 slots on the backside, ITX and cheap don't really go in the same sentence as you pay for the form factor.
The only reasonable place here to see the extra M.2 slots is going to be off the Chipset running at 3.0 speeds, or off one of the other PCIe slots on a riser card.
AMD has the abundance of directly connected M.2 slots as a primarly selling feature on the Threadripper Pro series chips and I doubt they are going to do anything to endanger that market any time soon.
 
I am just happy AMD finally with LGA for the CPU. While neither socket type is perfect I feel that its easier to care for those LGA CPUs. The Mottherboards are a different story lol.
 
Yes even if many many many years ago, I have accidentally bent CPU pins (heatsink and CPU cemented together when removing lol) never MoBo pins.

I'd also rather replace a MoBo than CPU $ wise
 
Lakados said:
Not at all cheaper, the CPU only has 28 PCIe lanes, once you start subdividing them amongst the chipset, storage, the GPU, and all the other odds and ends you see them get burned up pretty quickly.
Here is a breakdown of the AM5 PCIe lane subdivision.
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Imeant by that, would the handling of extra m.2 slot came from the CPU (like it will on Intel), a 3 m.2 slot motherboard could be made for cheaper that if it need to have a good enough chipset to handle it.
 
LukeTbk said:
Imeant by that, would the handling of extra m.2 slot came from the CPU (like it will on Intel), a 3 m.2 slot motherboard could be made for cheaper that if it need to have a good enough chipset to handle it.
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I'm not quite sure I follow but the cost of the chipset and its 4 PCIe lanes is cheaper than trying to get an additional 8 traces around the socket. The chipset is there regardless and already has storage capabilities built in as it handles SATA connectors, RAID, and the other storage aspects.
Here are AMD's breakdown of what the AM5 chipset connects back to.

1659044990246.png

So here the Chipset is already setup in a way that it could handle extra M.2 slots in a number of lane configurations.
But as you see the Chipset only get 4 PCIe 4.0 lanes between it and the CPU, which with all those USB 3 and other PCIe lanes can get saturated pretty fast and are costly which is why you usually only see them on the higher end boards and even then usually limited to PCIe3.0 speeds because the 4.0 and 5.0 traces are costly to lay down.
 
GoodBoy said:
Is the 15% uplift clock for clock? Or because they are hitting 5Ghz?
Hopefully its clock for clock. And if they can hit 5Ghz thats really good parity with Intel.

The pcie lanes will be the deciding factor for me next time i upgrade (still probably 4 years off). The 5800 being limited to 20 was why I had to change course last rebuild and go Intel.

Edit, just saw Vega's post. A bit disappointing, but not really surprising.
I think we've hit the limits for any more significant performance gains from silicon. The reality is we can get 8 years from our systems, if not more. Kinda sad there really isn't anything left to get excited about when a new CPU comes out.
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Nah Si has more. Since merged with other elements lends all kinds.of possibilities. However organics is the future. Nerve tissue based CPUs etc.... not human but manufactured from scratch.
 
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