AMD announces Ryzen 7000 Zen 4 CPUs

Mr Evil

Limp Gawd
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Jul 11, 2015
Messages
135
Let’s go through your list:
...
Why are you trying to tell me what I am and am not allowed to connec to my PC? I can assure you that I use all the hardware that I listed, and don't want to adjust the way I do things to fit your ideal of how a PC should be configured.
 

NightReaver

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 20, 2017
Messages
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Why are you trying to tell me what I am and am not allowed to connec to my PC? I can assure you that I use all the hardware that I listed, and don't want to adjust the way I do things to fit your ideal of how a PC should be configured.
I get the impression a few here want just workstation computers whereas the vast majority of people use their PC as a jack of all trades. Hence why motherboards and cpus have more things integrated into them. Sure, may not be the most robust way of doing things or the most power efficient, but I'd rather have more options of features in my PC without having to buy an assortment of expansion cards.
 

Endgame

Gawd
Joined
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Messages
866
I get the impression a few here want just workstation computers whereas the vast majority of people use their PC as a jack of all trades. Hence why motherboards and cpus have more things integrated into them. Sure, may not be the most robust way of doing things or the most power efficient, but I'd rather have more options of features in my PC without having to buy an assortment of expansion cards.
It’s not just a from a workstation perspective, though that is part of it.

I assert that the most edge case possible is the person that uses ALL the integrated options that come with these boards AND are content with the fact they are basically the lowest end options.

For example - what % of users actually use both the integrated wifi and Ethernet? Of those that just use the integrated Realtek, what % would actually prefer an Intel nic or are even having to add their own 10gbit nic? I understand Realtek has gotten better over the years, but even though it’s shit with corn kernels in it, it’s still shit in the end.

The same goes for nearly every integrated component - most users in most cases would be better off buying an expansion card for exactly what they need , because the integrated component in the majority of cases is either unnecessary, or sub optimal for the desired use case.
 
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Bowman15

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Messages
1,827
I get the impression a few here want just workstation computers whereas the vast majority of people use their PC as a jack of all trades. Hence why motherboards and cpus have more things integrated into them. Sure, may not be the most robust way of doing things or the most power efficient, but I'd rather have more options of features in my PC without having to buy an assortment of expansion cards.

I get the feeling a certain user is beating the subject to death ad nauseum when there is a reason they manufacture them with all the extra features. We get it, move on already.
 

Wat

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 23, 2019
Messages
396
Backing up to a NAS in a different location is not the same as an off-line backup.

I just hope none of you are actually working for any strategic industries.
 

Wat

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 23, 2019
Messages
396
If you are backing up speed racer and top cat cartoons, then yeah the cloud is fine
 

Endgame

Gawd
Joined
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Messages
866
If you are backing up speed racer and top cat cartoons, then yeah the cloud is fine
For personal use it is fine - it’s a NAS after all. Enterprise is using SAN onprem with a comprehensive backup strategy and cross region replication in the cloud.
 

Zarathustra[H]

Extremely [H]
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Messages
34,248
I was still under the impression that ZFS and iSCSI don't mix, I can look at it for my next go around but for my next storage upgrade, I can at least look into it.

It depends on what you mean by using iSCSI with ZFS.

You can create a drive image on a ZFS pool and share it over iSCSI. It works reliably, but I'm not sure why you'd want to. iSCSI - while very popular in enterprise environments - is really nothing to write home about. The world would be a better place if everyone just stopped using iSCSI all together. IMHO, almost any situation in which one might use iSCSI, would be better if one just mounted a shared pool over NFS and utilized a disk image stored on that storage pool. iSCSI just adds needless complication for really no benefit.

Where you may have an issue is if you try to use an iSCSI target as a member of a ZFS pool. This might have some issues, as ZFS is really only tested on directly using physical disks as members. Anything else (including virutal images, iSCSOI targets, etc) may work, but it may also give you trouble. In other words, the standard old "it's not supported" disclaimer.
 

chameleoneel

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5,942
Most software doesn't need an FPU. Unless you're doing something where floating-point performance is important, like gaming, then it's not really necessary. All the integrated "junk" is genuinely useful - at least I use most of it, and I'm pretty sure the majority of users do too.

But let's say you got your way and there was a desktop CPU and motherboard with nothing integrated that could possibly be left off. If I wanted to replicate the functionality of my current system by adding PCIe cards, I would need:

  • 3 slots for a GPU
  • 3 slots for USB (assuming 4 external ports per card, to match the 12 on my motherboard's rear IO panel)
  • 1 slot for a sound card
  • 1 slot for Ethernet
  • 1 slot for Bluetooth
  • 1 slot for NVME
That's already far exceeded the number of PCIe slots on a full ATX board, and I haven't even included SATA and WiFi, which I can do without, and of course the secondary GPU which kicked this whole discussion off (and it would be more expensive and worse performance than an integrated one). It's also not including PCIe slots which are blocked by other things, e.g. to bring 12V and 5V from the PC's PSU out to external connectors for some special peripherals to use.

So before I had a wifi/BT am4 mobo I needed to get a pair of BT headphones for the aforementioned reasons. 1st I got one of those dongle things, I really didn't like the way they worked. I wanted something that worked like traditional bluetooth with pairing multiple devices and whatnot. For that I had to get a $50 pcie card. Worked great, but shortly after I got a good deal on my Taichi X570 and was able to return the wifi card, saving a nice $50.

*Edit* Pretty much something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/FebSmart-Wireless-Bluetooth-PCs-2-4GHz-FS-N600BT/dp/B08J8BHBXJ/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=1IJX1N65I420H&keywords=bluetooth+pcie+card&qid=1654459749&sprefix=bluetooth+pcie+card,aps,96&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUE5TkYyT1o0RExNUkkmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA0Mjc2MzAzRVhZMUFURkw2QlQ1JmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA3MDM3MDMzOTE4Q1IxWTM2QktVJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

It’s not just a from a workstation perspective, though that is part of it.

I assert that the most edge case possible is the person that uses ALL the integrated options that come with these boards AND are content with the fact they are basically the lowest end options.

For example - what % of users actually use both the integrated wifi and Ethernet? Of those that just use the integrated Realtek, what % would actually prefer an Intel nic or are even having to add their own 10gbit nic? I understand Realtek has gotten better over the years, but even though it’s shit with corn kernels in it, it’s still shit in the end.

The same goes for nearly every integrated component - most users in most cases would be better off buying an expansion card for exactly what they need , because the integrated component in the majority of cases is either unnecessary, or sub optimal for the desired use case.
For the above 3 posts: Get Intel Wifi. Its the best and includes bluetooth. If you get a PCI-E card with Intel Wifi----its literally the same type of card (M.2 key) which would come pre-slotted into a motherboard. But instead, its slotted into a PCI-E adapter card.

And...I would challenge you to find a dedicated Bluetooth only adapter----which is actually any good.

Most USB wifi and blue-tooth dongles are cheap junk with little or no driver support.

And if you don't like Realtek-----don't get a motherboard which has it? There are usually a variety of motherboards available, with realtek or intel LAN.


Yeah same here I have discs going back 25 years, still read fine. Heck I found an old CD RW that are terrible for long term storage that I had put a bunch of old programs on back in the day that still read fine when I checked it.
Bit-rot is real. I understand you and other people have some old discs which still play fine. But many people have old discs with problems (from bit-rot).
 

Starfalcon

Gawd
Joined
Jan 7, 2020
Messages
916
CD-R and CD-RW were terrible for long term storage because the organic dye medium they used was prone to breaking down, the green and gold ones you could expect maybe 10 years out of more or less depending on humidity and temperature, the blue ones however used an inert dye and with the right conditions can be expected to have a shelf life of up to 100 years.

Yeah mine was a green boy so that is why I was suprised it was still able to be read. I burned the disc back in 2000ish with some utilities I used when I worked on other computers.
 

Lakados

Supreme [H]ardness
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Feb 3, 2014
Messages
5,779
It depends on what you mean by using iSCSI with ZFS.

You can create a drive image on a ZFS pool and share it over iSCSI. It works reliably, but I'm not sure why you'd want to. iSCSI - while very popular in enterprise environments - is really nothing to write home about. The world would be a better place if everyone just stopped using iSCSI all together. IMHO, almost any situation in which one might use iSCSI, would be better if one just mounted a shared pool over NFS and utilized a disk image stored on that storage pool. iSCSI just adds needless complication for really no benefit.

Where you may have an issue is if you try to use an iSCSI target as a member of a ZFS pool. This might have some issues, as ZFS is really only tested on directly using physical disks as members. Anything else (including virutal images, iSCSOI targets, etc) may work, but it may also give you trouble. In other words, the standard old "it's not supported" disclaimer.
iSCSI is needed for parts of my VMWare setup.
 

Lakados

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
5,779
Get Intel Wifi. Its the best and includes bluetooth. If you get a PCI-E card with Intel Wifi----its literally the same type of card (M.2 key) which would come pre-slotted into a motherboard. But instead, its slotted into a PCI-E adapter card.
I’ve begun a widespread replacement of all the Broadcom and Realtek wifi chips in our active laptops and I’m replacing them with Intel AX200’s tired of playing the driver game with them.
 

N4CR

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Messages
4,944
I'm aware there have not been many new leaks, but it might be nice to take the peripheral autism to another thread, so people don't have to scroll pages looking for new info...
 

lopoetve

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 11, 2001
Messages
32,609
How so? Every disc i have ever burned is still readable going back to cdr from 1996.

And the best part is I still have the ability to read them--without jumping thru hoops.
Have a bunch of tapes with no working tape drive.
Depends on what ink was used (as someone else said)
It’s not just a from a workstation perspective, though that is part of it.

I assert that the most edge case possible is the person that uses ALL the integrated options that come with these boards AND are content with the fact they are basically the lowest end options.

For example - what % of users actually use both the integrated wifi and Ethernet? Of those that just use the integrated Realtek, what % would actually prefer an Intel nic or are even having to add their own 10gbit nic? I understand Realtek has gotten better over the years, but even though it’s shit with corn kernels in it, it’s still shit in the end.

The same goes for nearly every integrated component - most users in most cases would be better off buying an expansion card for exactly what they need , because the integrated component in the majority of cases is either unnecessary, or sub optimal for the desired use case.
I use both the wifi and ethernet - but, my TR board was $800 and came with aquantia 10G and the latest intel Wifi. My x299 board has an intel X550 built into it (2 port 10G) and the same wifi option. And so on - some of the cheaper boards I fed real 10G cards, but if I can get it integrated, I do - saves a slot for something else :) As for integrated sound - same dance - I'm buying high-end motherboards to get the high-end parts in it. I happen to agree with you when it comes to entry-level boards, but... well, lets not forget that there's options there- you can GET a good DAC built into the board, if you want to pay for it.
It depends on what you mean by using iSCSI with ZFS.

You can create a drive image on a ZFS pool and share it over iSCSI. It works reliably, but I'm not sure why you'd want to. iSCSI - while very popular in enterprise environments - is really nothing to write home about. The world would be a better place if everyone just stopped using iSCSI all together. IMHO, almost any situation in which one might use iSCSI, would be better if one just mounted a shared pool over NFS and utilized a disk image stored on that storage pool. iSCSI just adds needless complication for really no benefit.

Where you may have an issue is if you try to use an iSCSI target as a member of a ZFS pool. This might have some issues, as ZFS is really only tested on directly using physical disks as members. Anything else (including virutal images, iSCSOI targets, etc) may work, but it may also give you trouble. In other words, the standard old "it's not supported" disclaimer.
There are still a few things that NFS doesn't support (SCSI reservations for one, which some things still need sadly) or doesn't play the nicest with (latency will always be slightly higher than proper block storage, but this is also true of iSCSI, and multipathing is still somewhat rudimentary depending on your OS talking to the target).
iSCSI is needed for parts of my VMWare setup.
This - although NFS on VMware works great for 99% of use cases, that last 1% is the killer.
 

Wat

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 23, 2019
Messages
396
Depends on what ink was used (as someone else said)
Yes, that is true. How it is stored also can affect longevity.

Back in the day, I would burn copies of my CDs to keep in the car. Even the good quality CDRs I bought would not last more than a couple years in a hot car. The data ones, stored in a cool, dry dark place are still fine.
 

Wat

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 23, 2019
Messages
396
Most times a new thread is created when new info comes out.

Don't try to put us down. FIGHT THE POWER, MUTHAAAA
 

N4CR

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
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Messages
4,944
Delid leaked in wild, IHS is super thick to retain AM4 mounting compatibility and some room for 3d stacking. This is presumably an EE and I'm curious if there will be much measurable impact on thermal conductivity under normal use.

https://www.techpowerup.com/295642/amds-upcoming-zen-4-cpu-delidded-by-overclocker
Intel-Zen4-delidded.jpg
Click thumbnail to expand
 

N4CR

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
4,944
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/a...m-zen-5-by-2024-4th-gen-infinity-architecture

Roadmap update from shareholder meeting. A slightly obfuscated one in terms of time, but better than none. New uarch coming in 2024, could be some exciting jumps there - let the speculation increase!
Some rdna3 juice as well but that's for another thread, got a plane to catch and 3 hours sleep prior ;).

Zen4 key numbers: [vs zen3 cinebench]
8-10% IPC
15% ST
35% overall perf (in line with cinebench gains from last info scraps)
25% perf/W
Makes my upgrade this month even harder to decide x3d or 5600x tie me over...

Source: AMD [via THG]
Click to expand
Hv4vPoGqvcjuEhSZNrD3bU-970-80.jpg
ZmNUFXahYCZCvRPqyhCG8U-970-80.jpg

signal-2022-06-10-02-51-22-518.png



Zen4 numbers:
hK95dNmCUPBwm49RHrEM8o-970-80.jpg
z8xzPAEsGVJipyAruZEyBo-970-80.jpg
 
Last edited:

ManofGod

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
12,647
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/a...m-zen-5-by-2024-4th-gen-infinity-architecture

Roadmap update from shareholder meeting. A slightly obfuscated one in terms of time, but better than none. New uarch coming in 2024, could be some exciting jumps there - let the speculation increase!
Some rdna3 juice as well but that's for another thread, got a plane to catch and 3 hours sleep prior ;).

Zen4 key numbers: [vs zen3 cinebench]
8-10% IPC
15% ST
35% overall perf (in line with cinebench gains from last info scraps)
25% perf/W
Makes my upgrade this month even harder to decide x3d or 5600x tie me over...

Source: AMD [via THG]
Click to expand
View attachment 481516
View attachment 481517

View attachment 481523



Zen4 numbers:
View attachment 481527
View attachment 481528

At this rate, if true, by the time I am ready to upgrade my 6800XT / R9 5900X in 2027, it will be epic.
 

N4CR

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
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Messages
4,944
I
At this rate, if true, by the time I am ready to upgrade my 6800XT / R9 5900X in 2027, it will be epic.
I'm coming from skylake so I get the same sort of jump now, enjoy the jump when you get there. Chiplets are going to be epic for gpus this year.
 

RanceJustice

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
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Messages
6,267

This pretty much secures that I'm likely to take the Zen3 based hardware I was going to use for a build and stick it for my server/secondary PC (5950X, Dark Hero, 32GB DDR4 3600BDie), and if the high end Zen4 stuff comes out grab for my main rig update. Glad they're not taking forever , a physical launch in Sept would be great.
 

Lakados

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Messages
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At this stage I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s when the OEM’s are allowed to start selling their products with consumer availability to follow after.
 

Delicieuxz

[H]ard|Gawd
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Messages
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Should an 850 watt PSU be good enough for a Zen 4 CPU of comparable SKU-tier to Zen 3's the 5800x and an RTX 4080? Other specs of this hypothetical PC would include an X670 mobo, 64 GB of DDR5 RAM, and 5 storage drives. And perhaps an upgrade to a 3D V-cache CPU when they release.

I bought a Corsair 850x when I thought I was going to build a Zen 3 PC, but then decided to wait for Zen 4. So, I have one sitting around. If it's not going to cut it, though, I'll have to sell it and get something that will.
 

TheSlySyl

2[H]4U
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Messages
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Should an 850 watt PSU be good enough for a Zen 4 CPU of comparable SKU-tier to Zen 3's the 5800x and an RTX 4080? Other specs of this hypothetical PC would include an X670 mobo, 64 GB of DDR5 RAM, and 5 storage drives. And perhaps an upgrade to a 3D V-cache CPU when they release.

I bought a Corsair 850x when I thought I was going to build a Zen 3 PC, but then decided to wait for Zen 4. So, I have one sitting around. If it's not going to cut it, though, I'll have to sell it and get something that will.
My 5950X and (triple 8 pin) 3080 with 8 hard drives + everything else hits 800W at full* load from the wall.
So you might want to go a little stronger for 7000 series and 4000 series.

*Unrealistic Cinebench R23 & Cyberpunk simultaneously. I was really just seeing how much wattage I would use.
 

Lakados

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Messages
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My 5950X and (triple 8 pin) 3080 with 8 hard drives + everything else hits 800W at load from the wall.
So you might want to go a little stronger for 7000 series and 4000 series.
With rumours of 800+ watt GPU’s I’d be looking towards the 1200w platinum range personality at this point.
 

Delicieuxz

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With rumours of 800+ watt GPU’s I’d be looking towards the 1200w platinum range personality at this point.
The RTX 4080 is rumoured to have a TDP of 450 watts.

I hope I can get by with 850 watts. I would prefer to have some decent headroom. I don't feel like spending another $250 CAD for another PSU, though.
 

kamikazi

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My 5950X and (triple 8 pin) 3080 with 8 hard drives + everything else hits 800W at full* load from the wall.
So you might want to go a little stronger for 7000 series and 4000 series.

*Unrealistic Cinebench R23 & Cyberpunk simultaneously. I was really just seeing how much wattage I would use.
My 5950x and 3080 plus two ddc 3.2 pumps and 15 fans will go over 700 watts playing MS Flight Simulator. I found out because my UPS started screaming due to overload, so I hooked it up to a Kill A Watt. If, I built it over again, I would go with a 1000 watt unit. I have upgraded CPU and videocard since I bought it though. 850 was more than enough for a 3900x and 1080 Ti.
 

schmide

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My 5950x and 3080 plus two ddc 3.2 pumps and 15 fans will go over 700 watts playing MS Flight Simulator. I found out because my UPS started screaming due to overload, so I hooked it up to a Kill A Watt. If, I built it over again, I would go with a 1000 watt unit. I have upgraded CPU and videocard since I bought it though. 850 was more than enough for a 3900x and 1080 Ti.

I don't know if you compensated for it but.

If your Kill A Watt is pulling 700w your components are pulling 80-85% x 700w = 560-600w. Even less if you measured upstream of your UPS.

2 pumps + 15 fans is a lot of stuff but still under 100w.

I stopped using a ups because, at least the few I've had just injected noise into and out of the the AC. My power almost never goes out anyways. Nuclear -> 20mi high tension -> substation -> underground
 

TheSlySyl

2[H]4U
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Messages
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I don't think anyone saw this coming:



Be interesting if this bears fruit. It's just a rumor, after all.

They did announce that AM4 wasn't a "dead" platform and they were planning on keeping low-end chips on Zen 4, so it makes perfect sense to shift to DDR4 based APUs for legacy AM4 systems or other parts that aren't up to 7000 series standards.
However, as someone who literally just bought a 5950X, i'm gonna laugh/cry if there's a 7950X (or 16 core equivalent) for AM4.
 

Axman

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Messages
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APUs for legacy AM4 systems or other parts that aren't up to 7000 series standards

APUs make sense, and so does an 8c/16t gaming part for people who felt like the 5800X3D was more of a side-grade than an upgrade.
 
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