AMD Announces Ryzen 7 3700X, 3800X and Ryzen 9 3900X

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Pieter3dnow, May 27, 2019.

  1. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    When exactly would Steve, or any reviewer, have time to benchmark during a trade show? They’d have to lock the GN team in a hotel room for days in order for them to get quality data.
     
  2. Rvenger

    Rvenger [H]ard|Gawd

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    I suggest that IPC isn't linear on every architecture. No full proof way to measure. Just an armchair technologist s way of thinking.
     
  3. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Preliminary data? I don't see the issue. Yes, I'd want a full GN workup along with other shops, but just getting a quick independent series done to corroborate what AMD is putting out would be helpful. GN already has their benchmark suite updated for Zen 2 / Ryzen 3 and could select a handful of tests to either challenge or support AMD's marketing.

    Absent that, it's prudent to consider AMD's numbers to be a bit optimistic, and add to that the potential for Intel to adjust SKUs and pricing, much of the 'takeaways' lose some of their validity.
     
  4. Mode13

    Mode13 Limp Gawd

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    Hmm haven't considered DDR5. I'm a bit behind the times with memory. I know DDR3 signals were electronically the same as DDR2, hence why the Phenom II was able to use either or given 1.5 or 1.8V and different timings. Not sure if the same story happened with DDR3 to 4. I still don't have any DDR4 hardware in fact.

    I just like to upgrade once every 5 years and hate that my last build (z97 + 4790k) was at its absolute limit and had no upgrade path from day 1. I'm hoping this time around I can at least have some later CPU options like the good old days.

    I have a feeling Ryzen 4000 is going to be a 3000 series refresh on the 7nm+ EUV node, but with the memory controller in question.. I just have to wait and see I guess
     
  5. gigaxtreme1

    gigaxtreme1 2[H]4U

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    NDA. No preferential treatment. You get 'em when you get 'em.
     
  6. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Could have been a semi-open 'seminar' for whoever showed up. Could have required AMD response to results before publishing (either to support or refute). Could have required a set standard as GN has set for their Ryzen 3 reviews.

    Lot of ways to do this- and on counter-point, I don't disagree that it would have been difficult and thus see why it might not have happened. Just would have been nice.
     
  7. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Agreed- I'm mostly highlighting the variables, from how the memory technology itself works, to the limitations of the sockets in question, to the limits of the manufacturers. As I understand, Intel hasn't supported DDR3 on their desktop SKUs since Skylake, but for example. my Coffee Lake ultrabook (8550U) does have LPDDR3.

    So in theory, AMD could support Ryzen 4000 in AM4 with DDR4, and perhaps AM5 with DDR5, with the same SKUs.
     
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  8. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    Preliminary data wouldn't really be all that valuable either. It would be done on AMD provided hardware, with early drivers, and likely using AMD provided games/applications and it would also have to be incredibly rushed. GN also doesn't do sponsored tests like that.

    Of course their numbers are optimistic. The 15% will probably show up, but maybe not across the board. Some applications might even end up higher. Barring some serious driver/platform issues early on (which are always a possibility) I'd expect the average increase to be within a few percentage points of that number.
     
  9. alxlwson

    alxlwson You Know Where I Live

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    I have the STRIX x470 which is basically the same board minus some vrm, and my box starts almost instantly. Less than 5 seconds from power button to W10 login screen
     
  10. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Aye, me too.
     
  11. Joust

    Joust 2[H]4U

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    I will be there to pick up your old gear. I see a Plex upgrade coming!
     
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  12. travm

    travm Limp Gawd

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    This is rumor. What was announced its weak. I see Intel style incremental improvement. At least they didn't Jack up the price. This offers me nothing. Which is fine.
     
  13. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    WTF are you talking about? The last time Intel had a gen-to-gen increase anywhere near what AMD is claiming was in 2011.
     
  14. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    Keep in mind that this is a new process from 14nm to 7nm and it does very well for AMD.
     
  15. Rvenger

    Rvenger [H]ard|Gawd

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    And we didn't even see reviews yet so glad you made that conclusion already. All we saw were rumors that turned out to be false, as usual. WCCFTech did a great job at making everyone think this was a wonder chip. I certainly didn't set my expectations that high.
     
  16. travm

    travm Limp Gawd

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    The only world where this is good is if they magically are 15% faster per clock. So chiplets? 12 core is sweet, but no use to me. I'm sure they improved the ccx latency which was a small bottleneck as far as I can tell.

    Maybe reviews will say otherwise, but this announcement by itself is weak.

    I cannot believe they were able to find 15% per clock. I'm expecting 5% in real world applications, plus the 10% + click advantage over zen 1.

    Sincerely hope I'm wrong, I really want a decent drop in for my Am4 systems.
     
  17. elite.mafia

    elite.mafia Broke Back [H]

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    They probably will be getting them soon but will have NDA's for a few weeks
    I don't think you know what a rumor is..
     
  18. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    5% seems highly pessimistic. No doubt some will be under 15% (maybe even far under) but assuming real world will only be 5% seems a bit like you're overcompensating for buying into the stupid rumors.
     
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  19. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I might hold you to that :)

    I will have a 6700K + MSI motherboard and 16GB of RAM for sale. Possibly at Noctua DH15 for sale when it comes time.
     
  20. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I'll criticize either company and any other- so I'll say that 'weak' isn't really applicable. Getting within a few % of Skylake is an achievement for AMD; being able to produce CPUs with more cores economically is also an achievement. We expect that AMD is fudging the numbers one way or another, not only because this is marketing, but also because being seen as not catching up to Skylake would indeed look weak. Skylake is old.
     
  21. pillagenburn

    pillagenburn Gawd

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    here's another good question.......

    will the Asus GL702ZC get a BIOS update to support Ryzen 3000? haha....


    It has a 95w TDP CPU in it now, it would be hilarious if you could manage to cram the 105w 12-core into it with some better thermal paste or something.

    I somehow doubt that it will get support.... but 12c/24t in a laptop would be hilarious.
     
  22. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    It is a different process (7 nm vs 14 nm) so the 15% IPC change should not be something far fetched. Just not alone from cpu architectural changes. I think the cache helps in a way this is a "cheat" coz once you go outside of the cache you lost your advantage.
     
  23. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    AMD brings 12 cores at 499 and Intel charged over 1k for 8 cores. People still bitch about price and happily pay intel an arm and a leg. Some of you reallyd deserve your wallet raped. Its like whole point of AMD to exist is make no money! Happily spend another 500 for intel. Go ahead.

    15% IPC uplift and 12 core blowing the pants off intel. Are you kiddin me? Noobs want 5ghz out of box and now IPC uplift doesnt mean shit? Unreal!

    AMD had 5ghz chips that didn't do shit. Now they are bringing real competition with another 15% IPC uplift and people are finding new ways to complain lol.
     
  24. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yeah sometimes it seems were living in the twilight zone ;)
     
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  25. elite.mafia

    elite.mafia Broke Back [H]

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  26. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Pay intel same money for 8 cores and same performance and more power. Problem solved. Like I said earlier some of you will never be satified lol. Stick with intel and stay happy.
     
  27. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

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    Spinning rust and lots of drives doesn't always help either..

    They should buy Bulldozer for muh gigahertz.
     
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  28. Azrak

    Azrak Gawd

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    I heard AMD hired Principled Technologies to run some benchmarks. ;)
     
  29. travm

    travm Limp Gawd

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    Process does not improve IPC, it does allow higher clocks sometimes, which is not what was announced. I guess 4.2ghz boost on the mid-range chips is faster. But marginally.
     
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  30. travm

    travm Limp Gawd

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    I just said, weak.. Its not like I said OMFGAWEFULESAUCE.
     
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  31. Randall Stephens

    Randall Stephens Limp Gawd

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    I suggest only masturbating with one hand and keeping the noctua in the other. Kick the rest of it to the curb(y)
     
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  32. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    They've charged >US$1000 for a single core before.

    More cores than consumers can use (and yes, I do find that quite unfortunate, even frustrating), and an IPC lift that gets it in range of a half-decade old uarch while still falling short of matching clockspeeds? That's nice, but it's not 'blowing the pants off'.

    Not complaining about the parts, just AMD's numbers. I'll complain about Intel's too...
     
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  33. sirmonkey1985

    sirmonkey1985 [H]ard|DCer of the Month - July 2010

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    zen 2+ most likely yes, zen 3 maybe not if it goes to ddr5.
     
  34. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    I get your point. What do you expect Lisa to do? She has deliver 60%+ IPC increase in last 3 years compared to their old chips. To expect anything else it is pretty obsurd. its like damned if you do and damned if you don't. Unlike intel sitting on its ass they brought another 15% in 2 years compared to first gen ryzen.

    Like I said everyone wanted them to match intel now they do and it's still not good enough. let's see how the overclock on these chips looks. They are staying within TDP for now on these based on numbers, I would like to see how they can be pushed. Afterall it makes sense for them to stay within previous TDPs for better backward compatibility.
    So are we really complaining about more cores for consumers now? Now that more and more people have more cores that they are mainstream you will see software catch up too.
     
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  35. travm

    travm Limp Gawd

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    Honestly, im still using an FX system beside the Ryzen 5 1600, and it does everything practically the same. There is no functional difference from day to day use. I expect less heat, but I dont notice that.
     
  36. RobCalleg

    RobCalleg Limp Gawd

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    The worst post.
     
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  37. mda

    mda [H]ard|Gawd

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    From Black screen to the Asus ROG logo is taking a while and I'm guessing one of two causes:
    1. The system is just having trouble initializing all of my 64GB RAM. (Even at stock 2133, there is no reduction in time)
    2. Win10 wasn't installed in UEFI mode.

    Since from Asus logo to Windows is quite fast, I'm guessing it's #1.
     
  38. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The CEO? Honestly I feel she's done a pretty outstanding job, as far as anyone can tell from the outside. From a marketing perspective, AMD has to put some spin on stuff, cause it's going to be spun by the press afterward anyway. And dissected by us :D.

    Given AMD's numbers they really haven't. Close enough for most, though.

    Likely not that impressive. If there was more headroom on average, AMD would have pushed the clockspeeds a bit more. Perhaps there's more variability in this generation above the official bins, but for that to be left on the table it's not going to be common.

    To a degree- in terms of power draw, it's still the wild west for compatible boards. In terms of cooling, I'd expect AMD to continue shipping respectable OEM coolers, and for the enthusiast-oriented stuff, I don't expect them to be 'out of range' of a decent AIO.

    Basic challenge is that you either have embarrassingly parallel stuff like various forms of rendering (3D, video), or using more cores is like a decade long root canal operation. Games fall into the latter group and that's about the most intensive use that most consumers have.

    At this point six cores can handle just about anything a consumer does responsively. Two if they're not gaming. Four's a decent compromise for those that want 'enough', eight if they're gaming.


    I do want to state that I'm not trying to be pessimistic about AMD's accomplishment as it stands, and when the cards play out I might be far more supportive- or not- depending on all the variables.
     
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  39. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Scan that RAM, one stick at a time, then in pairs, then all at once. 64GB would mean that you're filling all slots, so four banks per channel (two banks per module, two modules per channel), and that's rough regardless of platform. Good luck!
     
  40. Araxie

    Araxie [H]ardness Supreme

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    AMD was only able to match intel single core performance due all the security mitigations intel have suffered lately.. if we consider that intel have actually lost about 15 ~ 20% of performance on a fully patched up to date machine and also considering the ryzen 1XXX and 2XXX mitigations to security holes (which nobody seems to think they exist that also decrease peformance... or avoid to mention, of course in the AMD fanboy department) then the advances of ryzen series 3000 suddenly doesn't seem to be so great..

    What I truly love of ryzen cpu is how well they are able to manage and stay into TDP ratings unlike latest intel CPUS.. I have one 1700X and one 1800X and probably I'm gona upgrade those to 3800X and 3900X respectively due same reason.. thermals are always a concern to me and lately ryzen are easier to manage thermals and noise.