AMD 6900 series, Delayed Until December, only Soft Launch.

Well here's the thing. If they announce they are releasing in November and we don't get anything shipped out till Dec = Soft launch. Remember they don't have an official release date despite what rumors say, nothing official. You can't call it a soft launch if they don't announce a date. You can say they just pushed it back. Most soft launches are made to please investors hence why they report a date.
So if they come out and make a conference on Dec 13 and say what day it will be released and it ships out that week = Hard launch.
 
Lorien said:
That's the 1536 SPU part which was paraded around AIBs and reported to perform on par with the GTX580. It is rumored that it was all done to bait Nvidia into thinking the 6970 was going to be slower and get them to commit to a lower clock speed and higher price point. It's the same thing they did with the 4870. They sent out a cut down 480 SPU sample board and the final official spec card was 800 SPUs and much cheaper than the GTX260.

People should not be surprised of this anymore. AMD has done it for 3 generations of products.
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I doubt that it would be a surprise to Nvidia - after all, it's their job to understand their competitor and I doubt they'd miss something as obvious as the possibility of fake benchmarks/specs.

I still wonder whether the release slip is because AMD was caught a little off-guard by the 580 release and want to take time to tweak their bios/drivers for a better launch, or if they are satisfied that they are still in the game with the 5970/5870/6870 and want some more time to move their 5970/5870 inventory, or if there is an actual supply problem. Seems like the three most likely reasons. If it is #2 then we might see some crazy deals on 5970/5870 cards for Black Friday.
 
GoldenTiger said:
I'm hearing it's a softlaunch even in mid-December from various sites... take it for what it's worth.
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I think the launch has defiantly been moved to mid-December, but don't think it has really been "confirmed" that it is a softlaunch. You gotta realize, that just cause lots of sites say the same thing doesn't mean it is true.

I seem to remember that a little while back, one site posted a falsified story and every other news site picked it up until eventually someone decided to confirm the legitimacy and found out the truth. (lol too be honest can't remember if this was a movie or actually happened).

Regardless if it actually happened or not, the message behind it is clear that unless the source is reliable it doesn't matter how many other sites report the same thing.
 
TechCrazy said:
I think the launch has defiantly been moved to mid-December, but don't think it has really been "confirmed" that it is a softlaunch. You gotta realize, that just cause lots of sites say the same thing doesn't mean it is true.

I seem to remember that a little while back, one site posted a falsified story and every other news site picked it up until eventually someone decided to confirm the legitimacy and found out the truth. (lol too be honest can't remember if this was a movie or actually happened).

Regardless if it actually happened or not, the message behind it is clear that unless the source is reliable it doesn't matter how many other sites report the same thing.
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Happens all the time with falsified/un-fact-checked stories. However, this is straight from AMD/ATI, so the launch has definitely moved into mid-December. As I said, for the rumor part of it being a low-quantity launch and my own speculation on speed, take it for what it's worth ;).
 
TechCrazy said:
On a side note, what price do you think we can expect the 6970 to be?
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If Chiphell rumors are true personally I would expect this to be a $500 card. If kitguru and fudboy are correct (you can check thier websites) $400.
 
Vexerz said:
If Chiphell rumors are true personally I would expect this to be a $500 card. If kitguru and fudboy are correct (you can check thier websites) $400.
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$500 would be something special alright.
I can't see ATI selling a single GPU solution for $500, especially since the 6850 is MSRP $179.

They haven't done that in the past, even the 5870 was MSRP $379.
 
UtopiA said:
$500 would be something special alright.
I can't see ATI selling a single GPU solution for $500, especially since the 6850 is MSRP $179.

They haven't done that in the past, even the 5870 was MSRP $379.
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They've done it before. Before the 3 series. X1900XT is 1 example: MSRP $549. X1900XTX $649 msrp.
Everything from 3 series to present has been sweet spot strategy (maximize margins, lower costs chips). This Cayman XT looks to be made to capture single gpu crown. If I'm wrong and its sweet spot strategy a $400 announcement is a dead giveaway to being a lower performer.
 
Vexerz said:
They've done it before. Before the 3 series.
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Sorry, I meant to put in "since the 3800's" but got distracted when I had to google the 5870 MSRP, I forgot to finish the sentence.
I don't remember 2000 (and previous) series prices...

ATI clearly adopted a new market mentality back then, I don't see them changing it now.
 
UtopiA said:
$500 would be something special alright.
I can't see ATI selling a single GPU solution for $500, especially since the 6850 is MSRP $179.

They haven't done that in the past, even the 5870 was MSRP $379.
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I'm gonna say they are both right, chiphell $500 us in Yuan, $399.99 in us though. Things usually cost more over in china
 
UtopiA said:
Sorry, I meant to put in "since the 3800's" but got distracted when I had to google the 5870 MSRP, I forgot to finish the sentence.
I don't remember 2000 (and previous) series prices...

ATI clearly adopted a new market mentality back then, I don't see them changing it now.
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This is one of the major debates on pre launch speculation. With the latest leaked specs its pointing to them ditching their current strategy.
 
Vexerz said:
This is one of the major debates on pre launch speculation. With the latest leaked specs its pointing to them ditching their current strategy.
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Just because Nvidia is charging $500 for a GTX 580, and there's reports now of the 6970 beating the 580, doesn't mean that's the price they're aiming for.

I don't need to remind anyone that Nvidia is notorious for the "We have the #1 GPU right now and ATI hasn't responded yet" overpricing scheme.

The 6970 will launch at $399 MSRP (or lower) and the next day, GTX 580 will drop its price to match.
 
UtopiA said:
Just because Nvidia is charging $500 for a GTX 580, and there's reports now of the 6970 beating the 580, doesn't mean that's the price they're aiming for.

I don't need to remind anyone that Nvidia is notorious for the "We have the #1 GPU right now and ATI hasn't responded yet" overpricing scheme.

The 6970 will launch at $399 MSRP (or lower) and the next day, GTX 580 will drop its price to match.
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Yeah, the $379 5870 that was $430-450 for several months after launch at *ALL* retailers.
 
UtopiA said:
Just because Nvidia is charging $500 for a GTX 580, and there's reports now of the 6970 beating the 580, doesn't mean that's the price they're aiming for.

I don't need to remind anyone that Nvidia is notorious for the "We have the #1 GPU right now and ATI hasn't responded yet" overpricing scheme.

The 6970 will launch at $399 MSRP (or lower) and the next day, GTX 580 will drop its price to match.
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Just look at the leak specs. This has been beaten to a dead horse across forums. You will see. It can go either way is all I'm saying but right now its pointing more to sweet spot out the window.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Yeah, the $379 5870 that was $430-450 for several months after launch at *ALL* retailers.
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Welllllllllll...

We’ve talked previously about TSMC – the foundry both NVIDIA and AMD GPUs are manufactured at – having yield issues with their 40nm process. This first surfaced with the Radeon 4770, which at the time of its introduction was being built while TSMC’s yields were below 40%, and this coupled with its popularity made for a significant shortage around its introduction. TSMC continued to improve their yields, and by the time of the Radeon 5000 series launch, AMD told us that they weren’t concerned with yields. As of this summer, TSMC was reporting yields of 60%.

On Friday the 30th, Digitimes broke the word that TSMC’s yields were back down to 40%. This we believe is due to issues TSMC is having ramping up overall 40nm production, but regardless of the reason it represents a 33% drop in usable chips per 40nm wafer. When you’re AMD and you’re rolling out a top-to-bottom 40nm product line in a 6 month period, this is a problem.
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That was a supply issue.
 
UtopiA said:
Welllllllllll...

That was a supply issue.
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Doubtful it was a supply issue, they were in stock just priced high ;). Besides, what matters is what you can BUY it at on retailers, not what it's "supposed" to be priced at. For instance, I can go buy a GTX 580 for $510 off newegg after coupon instantly, or TigerDirect for $500, etc. The HD5870 did not have that option: MSRP was $379, but you couldn't find it ANYWHERE *at all* for under $420 that wasn't a scam site.

Vexerz said:
Just look at the leak specs. This has been beaten to a dead horse across forums. You will see. It can go either way is all I'm saying but right now its pointing more to sweet spot out the window.
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Agreed... it looks more like they were/are aiming for a top-end expensive card, and offhand, having issues delivering.
 
92094335.jpg


I'm thinking the HD6950 is going to be $399 or so. I base that on the $379 price of a 5870 with 2GB of 5Ghz DDR5 at Newegg.
Looking at the 6970 with 2GB of 6Ghz DDR5 I can't help but think it'll cost at least $459. That much fast RAM is not going to be cheap.

Then again early price estimates of Barts were way on the high side, so AMD could surprise us once again.
 
side note: I just realized [H] forums has a version of SamOslo.:p
Posts just as much too.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Doubtful it was a supply issue, they were in stock just priced high ;). Besides, what matters is what you can BUY it at on retailers, not what it's "supposed" to be priced at. For instance, I can go buy a GTX 580 for $510 off newegg after coupon instantly, or TigerDirect for $500, etc. The HD5870 did not have that option: MSRP was $379, but you couldn't find it ANYWHERE *at all* for under $420 that wasn't a scam site.
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121rgjn.png


Well, I bought this from newegg and I don't consider them to be a scam site.
 
6900 series will get here when it gets here. I'm in no hurry. :)
 
Vexerz said:
The only thing reliable is what Sampsa from B3D reported after the tweaktown news broke on the delay.
6990 Antilles has been known now for a couple months to have been pushed back to 2011. I still would not trust kitguru.
I see alot cheerleaders today but why is Nvidia PR deathly silent and not as enthusiastic? I still think 6970 will be faster than a GTX 580 and they know whats coming.
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Why would NVIDIA say anything? What do you expect PR to say publically? "Ha Ha!" ... I mean seriously? This isn't kindergarden where kids gloat about someone in public. NVIDIA is a business and I wouldn't expect a company to put out any information. They have their card out. No need to mention or say jack...
 
3DChipset said:
Why would NVIDIA say anything? What do you expect PR to say publically? "Ha Ha!" ... I mean seriously? This isn't kindergarden where kids gloat about someone in public. NVIDIA is a business and I wouldn't expect a company to put out any information. They have their card out. No need to mention or say jack...
Click to expand...

Except it is kindergarten. Wood screws anyone? Mockup puppy. I rest my case.
 
Lorien said:
I'm thinking the HD6950 is going to be $399 or so. I base that on the $379 price of a 5870 with 2GB of 5Ghz DDR5 at Newegg.
Looking at the 6970 with 2GB of 6Ghz DDR5 I can't help but think it'll cost at least $459. That much fast RAM is not going to be cheap.
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I've been waiting for someone to mention the current prices of the 2GB 5870's... Newegg has every card at around $459.99 but 2 cards which are selling at $369 (after rebate)... Why people are expecting a new card to retail at $399.99 with 2GB? Economics puts it at roughly aroung $469.99 upon launch if you go by today's pricing of memory...
 
Vexerz said:
Except it is kindergarten. Wood screws anyone? Mockup puppy. I rest my case.
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That's pretty sad you're talking about the prelaunch of the 480... The past is the past... We are on a different card, the 580 and the soon to be 6970. Nothing like beating a dead horse. We can talk about all the dissaster cards. FX5800, 2900XTX, etc... Let's focus on what's out today and stop dwelling on the past to support your brownie points. :rolleyes:
 
All I know is that I would rather have them release it early with shitty drivers, than wait another week for them to improve on their drivers.

Cuz it has been waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to long since I have had a decent pc. Think it has been 6 months, 2 weeks and a day and a half (pc was stolen). Got a serious case of no game turkey so AMD if you out there for the love of god RELEASE THE 6970 *end rant*
 
3DChipset said:
That's pretty sad you're talking about the prelaunch of the 480... The past is the past... We are on a different card, the 580 and the soon to be 6970. Nothing like beating a dead horse. We can talk about all the dissaster cards. FX5800, 2900XTX, etc... Let's focus on what's out today and stop dwelling on the past to support your brownie points. :rolleyes:
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Indeed. Nvidia finally learned to shut their pieholes (still pending). You just argued my case for me a bit. Thanks for the assist.

TechCrazy said:
All I know is that I would rather have them release it early with shitty drivers, than wait another week for them to improve on their drivers.

Cuz it has been waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to long since I have had a decent pc. Think it has been 6 months, 2 weeks and a day and a half (pc was stolen). Got a serious case of no game turkey so AMD if you out there for the love of god RELEASE THE 6970 *end rant*
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6970 deserves a nice new build imo. I'm waiting for Sandy bridge myself.
 
Where did they say any of this was a soft launch? seems awfully misleading in the title there

UtopiA said:
Sorry, I meant to put in "since the 3800's" but got distracted when I had to google the 5870 MSRP, I forgot to finish the sentence.
I don't remember 2000 (and previous) series prices...

ATI clearly adopted a new market mentality back then, I don't see them changing it now.
Click to expand...

ATI was also clearly being beat by G80/G92. RV770 was a bit of a shock to everyone - even AMD said so. That was also in part because GT200 was underwhelming (everyone assumed 2X 8800GTX would give 2X performance, but that wasn't true). They actually considered abandoning the sweet spot for a much larger version of Cypress (read the Anandtech behind the scenes feature on the 5800) but decided relatively late in the game to keep it smaller in order to be on time, since 40nm was extremely buggy.

But AMD has seen Nvidia stumble with Fermi's initial release again, and there are certainly many people in AMD's camp who remembered AMD dominating with big powerful single GPUs before, so I wouldn't be surprised if they saw this as the perfect time to re-enter the enthusiast single GPU arena

GoldenTiger said:
Yeah, the $379 5870 that was $430-450 for several months after launch at *ALL* retailers.
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GoldenTiger said:
Doubtful it was a supply issue, they were in stock just priced high ;). Besides, what matters is what you can BUY it at on retailers, not what it's "supposed" to be priced at. For instance, I can go buy a GTX 580 for $510 off newegg after coupon instantly, or TigerDirect for $500, etc. The HD5870 did not have that option: MSRP was $379, but you couldn't find it ANYWHERE *at all* for under $420 that wasn't a scam site.
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You know, GoldenTiger, for someone who allegedly follows GPU releases of both sides very closely, you sure do have VERY selective memory when it comes to AMD cards

The 58xx's sold at MSRP for some days - but the TSMC supply situation was VERY real. Even TSMC said so, unless you think they're all lying.

The main issue was that demand outstripped supply, and so the few cards that were in stock were snatched up quickly meaning that we had a situation where there'd be cards in and out of stock. Eventually Newegg and others decided to reap the benefits and charged more

And they stayed high because Fermi was overwhelmingly underwhelming, and were priced high enough that the 5800's didn't need a price drop. Remember, MSRP is just suggested retail pricing - the retailers can do whatever they want to gouge, especially if its a high demand product, such as when a card is released

All this is well documented so I don't get where your alternate history is coming from

GoldenTiger said:
Agreed... it looks more like they were/are aiming for a top-end expensive card, and offhand, having issues delivering.
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Considering that ATI once was the company doing the top-end expensive card (X1950XTX anyone) and Nvidia doing the smaller GPUs, and that ATI's on their 3rd generation of 40nm, and that all the recent leaks say it has nothing to do with the actual chip itself, I doubt this very much
 
fattypants said:
[*IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/121rgjn.png[/IMG]

Well, I bought this from newegg and I don't consider them to be a scam site.
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ZerazaX said:
Where did they say any of this was a soft launch? seems awfully misleading in the title there

ATI was also clearly being beat by G80/G92. RV770 was a bit of a shock to everyone - even AMD said so. That was also in part because GT200 was underwhelming (everyone assumed 2X 8800GTX would give 2X performance, but that wasn't true). They actually considered abandoning the sweet spot for a much larger version of Cypress (read the Anandtech behind the scenes feature on the 5800) but decided relatively late in the game to keep it smaller in order to be on time, since 40nm was extremely buggy.

But AMD has seen Nvidia stumble with Fermi's initial release again, and there are certainly many people in AMD's camp who remembered AMD dominating with big powerful single GPUs before, so I wouldn't be surprised if they saw this as the perfect time to re-enter the enthusiast single GPU arena

You know, GoldenTiger, for someone who allegedly follows GPU releases of both sides very closely, you sure do have VERY selective memory when it comes to AMD cards

The 58xx's sold at MSRP for some days - but the TSMC supply situation was VERY real. Even TSMC said so, unless you think they're all lying.

The main issue was that demand outstripped supply, and so the few cards that were in stock were snatched up quickly meaning that we had a situation where there'd be cards in and out of stock. Eventually Newegg and others decided to reap the benefits and charged more

And they stayed high because Fermi was overwhelmingly underwhelming, and were priced high enough that the 5800's didn't need a price drop. Remember, MSRP is just suggested retail pricing - the retailers can do whatever they want to gouge, especially if its a high demand product, such as when a card is released

All this is well documented so I don't get where your alternate history is coming from

Considering that ATI once was the company doing the top-end expensive card (X1950XTX anyone) and Nvidia doing the smaller GPUs, and that ATI's on their 3rd generation of 40nm, and that all the recent leaks say it has nothing to do with the actual chip itself, I doubt this very much
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Nice history lesson, but I was around for it guys... the HD5870 was available for the first day or 2 at the MSRP (thanks for the photo illustration, fattypants, that was 2 days after launch, I rest my case!), then went in/out of stock a couple of weeks near MSRP... once it was widely available the pricing never went back down from $420-430 until recently, even once stock was plentiful, as I said. That was my point ;). As far as my comment on having issues delivering I *obviously* meant on this particular card, it's no secret they had high-end cards in the past several years ago but that was then, this is now.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Nice history lesson, but I was around for it guys... the HD5870 was available for the first day or 2 at the MSRP (thanks for the photo illustration, fattypants, that was 2 days after launch, I rest my case!), then went in/out of stock a couple of weeks near MSRP... once it was widely available the pricing never went back down from $420-430 until recently, even once stock was plentiful, as I said. That was my point ;). As far as my comment on having issues delivering I *obviously* meant on this particular card, it's no secret they had high-end cards in the past several years ago but that was then, this is now.
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And you can thank Nvidia for why the cards didn't drop for months after supply was sorted out... lack of competition
 
GoldenTiger said:
Nice history lesson, but I was around for it guys... the HD5870 was available for the first day or 2 at the MSRP (thanks for the photo illustration, fattypants, that was 2 days after launch, I rest my case!), then went in/out of stock a couple of weeks near MSRP... once it was widely available the pricing never went back down from $420-430 until recently, even once stock was plentiful, as I said. That was my point ;). As far as my comment on having issues delivering I *obviously* meant on this particular card, it's no secret they had high-end cards in the past several years ago but that was then, this is now.
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Even $420 is more than reasonable for a performance-leading GPU compared to what Nvidia has subjected (and is subjecting) consumers to over the years.

When Nvidia releases a top-end GPU, it costs $500-$830 (580, 480, 280, 8800 Ultra, 8800 GTX, 7800, 6800). I don't think Nvidia buyers have anything to complain about when ATI releases a GPU under $500. Especially considering they won't buy the ATI card anyway; why do they care?
 
GoldenTiger said:
Nice history lesson, but I was around for it guys... the HD5870 was available for the first day or 2 at the MSRP (thanks for the photo illustration, fattypants, that was 2 days after launch, I rest my case!), then went in/out of stock a couple of weeks near MSRP... once it was widely available the pricing never went back down from $420-430 until recently, even once stock was plentiful, as I said. That was my point ;). As far as my comment on having issues delivering I *obviously* meant on this particular card, it's no secret they had high-end cards in the past several years ago but that was then, this is now.
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I bought my XFX 5870 on 10/12 from Circuit City for $390 shipped with $20 bing cash back bringing the price down to $370. That was three weeks after launch. :D
 
You guys are crazy if you think retailers on launch will sell the 6970 for $399 or less. It will be $500+.
 
Vega said:
You guys are crazy if you think retailers on launch will sell the 6970 for $399 or less. It will be $500+.
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even if the retail price is 399, I doubt it will be priced hundered above retail by anyone in their right mind. I saw 5870 sell for about 429 or so.

But guess what this time nvidia has 580 and ati have to deal with them, I doubt they will be charged too much for them.
 
siliconnerd said:
I bought my XFX 5870 on 10/12 from Circuit City for $390 shipped with $20 bing cash back bringing the price down to $370. That was three weeks after launch. :D
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Nvidiafanboy: "And that's why Circuit City is now out of business"
 
Oooh that news post caused quite the kerfuffle.

http://www.kitguru.net/components/g...mance-indicators/comment-page-1/#comment-6097

From what I read, the 6970 will beat the 580 and be cheaper.

This quote:

“The HD6970 is not aimed at the GTX580 price point and therefore will not perform to the same levels.”

The 6870 is <$300, so I'm guessing the 6950 might $399 and the 6970 will be $499 – easily cheaper than the GTX580. Then, it's not competing on price point (cheaper) nor performance for that price point (faster).
 
anthony256 said:
Oooh that news post caused quite the kerfuffle.

http://www.kitguru.net/components/g...mance-indicators/comment-page-1/#comment-6097

From what I read, the 6970 will beat the 580 and be cheaper.

This quote:

“The HD6970 is not aimed at the GTX580 price point and therefore will not perform to the same levels.”

The 6870 is <$300, so I'm guessing the 6950 might $399 and the 6970 will be $499 – easily cheaper than the GTX580. Then, it's not competing on price point (cheaper) nor performance for that price point (faster).
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Nvidia's price is $499.99, not their fault anybody is selling it for more. I think it'll be even better than that. I think they will match their 5850/5870 release MSRP's but Lorien made a good point that the 2GB GDDR 5 rated at up to 6Ghz (not running that fast) is going to be expensive so perhaps $50 more on each card over 5000 series high end launch MSRP.
 
Guess I'll be squeezing another month out of the current card.

They must be reflashing all of those HD6970's in the warehouse with a new bios containing higher frequencies or voltages or some such thing. That is if they decided to do a last minute tweak after seeing the official GTX 580 performance numbers. Oh well, a few more weeks to build up stock for the Xmas rush isn't a bad thing; it should make the fourth quarter 2010 timeframe.

I'm fully expecting to be spending $499 for the HD6970. But I don't think the MSRP will be that high at release. I thought $420 or $430 but with the 2gb of vram it might be a few ticks higher. It'll be less than the GTX 580, for sure.
 
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