Amazon Raises Minimum Wage to $15 for All US Employees

Good for Amazon. From what I've read, Amazon is quite a demanding place to work so I have no doubt the workers are earning it.

That said, it's sort of a bootlegger/baptist situation with regards to their lobbying for a federal increase in minimum wage. They get to claim it's to help the workers while simultaneously putting their competition who don't have the margins to afford $15/hour minimum wage and an even more disadvantage.
 
Jumpy-B-L said:
Who could have guessed the [H] forum is full of economists?
Click to expand...

I took economics in high school. This material is not difficult. Just because you want to show the world your sarcasm skills doesn't negate the truth of the matter.

Dekoth-E- said:
Actually I have and I'm sick of the race to the bottom. You missed the entire point. If everyone is forced to pay their employees a decent wage, they can't bid the job so damn low. That is the whole point of a federal mandated wage, to prevent the exact kind of shit you are complaining about.
Click to expand...

The more the government intervenes the worse the economy does. Again, this too is basic economics. Look at all of Europe. Their collective GDPs are a total joke.
 
Kwaz said:
A wage increase ultimately isn't going to make people richer in the long run. It's the distribution of wealth that is the problem.
Click to expand...

tenor.gif
 
Article is kinda useless unless it lists what Amazon's minimum wage was before this increase.
 
Take care of your workers and amazing things will happen. Even in menial jobs a motivated, relatively happy employee is worth five bitter ones.

Employee retention is the major miracle that happens, this may shock some people, but workers get better at things with experience. Even in the most menial of jobs, experience really does count.
 
OFaceSIG said:
The more the government intervenes the worse the economy does. Again, this too is basic economics.
Click to expand...
Yeah, we had a Great Depression and had big government intervention with Glass-Steagall to prevent it from happening again. That prevented another Great Depression for 65 years. We repealed it in 1999, less than 10 years later we had the biggest crash since the Great Depression. If only the government never intervened! Think of all the wonderful crashes we missed out on!
 
You know, I thought the Amazon driver was dressed better the other day... he didn't even throw our package at the door. Must have been the raise.
 
I am not fond of Amazon myself for other reasons but even I admit this i a good move on their part.
 
I'm always torn about this issue. While I agree that if you are willing to work full time in this country you shouldn't be in poverty, this country is built to keep prices low enough for many of the people not making ends meet. If minimal wage goes up for everyone to $15 an hour, prices are going to follow suit and go up. Then we're right back to where we started.

I will say that I remember in 1999 and 2000, a McDonald's was paying $10 an hour near where I lived. I remember clear as day the sign on the front of the building. They are paying $9.50 an hour today. There's something wrong with that. That was 18 years ago, and $10 was more valuable back then than $10 today, it's like $15 today. So maybe it is right to be paying $15/hour, I don't know.
 
My biggest concern with $15 an hour for jobs like this is luring people away from jobs that pay the same or less than vitally more important roles.

Example: Paramedics in my area $14-$16 for their first ~7 years. The filth, responsibility, danger, terrible hours and lawsuit potential of that job is extremely high. The biggest threat at Amazon is not meeting your quota, maybe some tissue injuries from heavy lifting etc... Someone looking for a job may very likely skip the dangerous job that is hard, poor hours but personally fulfilling saving lives to do a job that is just fast paced, repetitive and generally much safer but in the end has no human psyche value.

I work in the 911 space. It's nice to know what I'm doing helps people in sometimes their most dire need.
 
OFaceSIG said:
I took economics in high school. This material is not difficult. Just because you want to show the world your sarcasm skills doesn't negate the truth of the matter.



The more the government intervenes the worse the economy does. Again, this too is basic economics. Look at all of Europe. Their collective GDPs are a total joke.
Click to expand...

Tell that to our current leadership. Tariffs, calling companies out in twitter to try to do them economic harm. And I'm rather sure a myriad of other avenues to mess with the economy. We have had a unfettered corporate infrastructure before. Things like the hover Dam were built during that time. And the Empire state building. Edifices of our engineering. Oh and also the bodies entombed within their concrete foundations as well from people that died during the construction. Steel mills were dangerous places to work as well and often people would be forced out after grievous injury.

Regulation put things in place like workers compensation, and safety laws, as well as restricted working hours without specific compensation for it. Yes some business leaders took the lead, but they couldn't afford to employ everyone, even Amazon can't do that. Taking the lead is just that... leading for others to follow. The minimum wage needs to climb. Wages need to climb across the board to be honest. And in so doing the richer will actually become richer. The ones that can afford to save and invest today will be able to save and invest more tomorrow provided something tragic doesn't happen with their businesses or investments.
 
We perpetuate our own economical problems. Everyone wants more more more. From the top to the bottom. From the beginnings of raw materials, all the way to the final product going out the door, and everything in between. Housing, food, fuel, utilities, life in general. Put it together, look at the big picture. We drive inflation through the moon and wonder why we have caused such a class division. You can get as political or economical as you want but the root cause is greed.
 
bigdogchris said:
I'm always torn about this issue. While I agree that if you are willing to work full time in this country you shouldn't be in poverty, this country is built to keep prices low enough for many of the people not making ends meet. If minimal wage goes up for everyone to $15 an hour, prices are going to follow suit and go up. Then we're right back to where we started.

I will say that I remember in 1999 and 2000, a McDonald's was paying $10 an hour near where I lived. I remember clear as day the sign on the front of the building. They are paying $9.50 an hour today. There's something wrong with that.
Click to expand...
The whole purpose of the creation of the minimum wage was to ensure that anyone working full time could support themselves. The owner class has never liked this and has worked hard to seed the notion that this is only meant for teenagers with summer jobs. Judging by the reactions in this thread, their campaign has been highly successful.

To me, it's simple: Anyone working a full time job should be able to afford food on the table, a roof over their heads, and essentials like medical care. If that's simply not possible under the current minimum wage, then by its own definition, it's set too low. If, as some say, the country is so poor, or the economy is so fragile, that increasing the minimum wage to those levels would lead to a permanent economic collapse because businesses wouldn't be able to afford most of their employees, then the whole system is a house of cards that needs to be revised ASAP. People working full time deserve to have their basic needs yet. If they don't, then it's just a bad system that needs to be changed.
 
Kwaz said:
A wage increase ultimately isn't going to make people richer in the long run. It's the distribution of wealth that is the problem.
Click to expand...
You don't get "richer" by earning more. You get "richer" by investing your money and making it work for you.
 
zkostik said:
I'm glad they did as minimum wage is well behind cost of living, though that does apply to wages in many tiers in a lot of areas (like in Wash DC area for example). We will see if Amazon also bumps their fees and such or they'll just take a hit on profits to pay their workers more.
Click to expand...

Any sensible business, especially one beholden to their share holders, will never take a hit on profits. The main problem with minimum wage is inflation. As minimum wage goes up, so does the cost of everything, from groceries to your basic burger combo to rent.
 
Cactusj said:
That is a different issue. If you are still making the same pay that you did 10 years ago, you should have found a new job 8 years ago.
Click to expand...

That has nothing to do with it. Somebody working at McDonalds in 1999 was making a lot more than someone working there today. Salary should correlate with inflation but only do CEO's see a 1000% increase in the last decade while the bottom struggles to keep above 1%. Lunch shouldn't cost nearly 2 hours worth of your salary. It's easy to tell someone "get a better job" but not everyone has that kind of opportunity.
 
Rockenrooster said:
Thus negating the purpose of the minimum wage increase.
If you increase minimum wage, then increase the cost of your services, soon the "new" minimum wage won't be enough, and you're back to square one.

Example, smartphones. Increase minimum wage= now your smart phone will cost more per month, since providers have to pay their workers more. Soon you will no longer be able to afford your smartphone. Back to square one
Click to expand...

I don't think increasing minimum wage necessarily will make goods go up the same percentage. It could however promote more outsourcing though. There has to be some kind of increase to keep relative pace with current economy/cost of living though, otherwise businesses will take all advantage of it. I mean folks who can only get a minimum wage job need to eat too, at least they are working and not begging money on the street. Someone always fills that niche, regardless for how long and it isn't always students. Though even if it is, they need to be able to survive too. Not all are living with/off their parents. Not sure if simply raising minimum wage is the way to go about fixing the problem but getting people to go work instead of collecting welfare sure is.
 
alxnet7227 said:
Any sensible business, especially one beholden to their share holders, will never take a hit on profits. The main problem with minimum wage is inflation. As minimum wage goes up, so does the cost of everything, from groceries to your basic burger combo to rent.
Click to expand...

But with inflation wage has to go up, how are people supposed to survive? Is everyone in that bracket all of a sudden needs to find a higher paying job? Suppose they did, who's going to occupy their bracket? This will just result with more people on welfare feeding off out taxes instead of businesses having to contribute more. I understand there's no perfect solution to this, someone always is not going to like the result.
 
OFaceSIG said:
Health and well being laws and not analogous to wage laws. There's a difference between ensuring an child doesn't work in a copper smelting forge and not paying someone $15 an hour to sweep floors. You have a weak premise and weak retort.
Click to expand...

Someone still has to sweep that floor unless a robot does it. Please remember this is the 21st Century and that these folks live in what is supposedly a 'civilised' society.

People should not be going hungry if they are working a days labour.
 
alxnet7227 said:
Any sensible business, especially one beholden to their share holders, will never take a hit on profits. The main problem with minimum wage is inflation. As minimum wage goes up, so does the cost of everything, from groceries to your basic burger combo to rent.
Click to expand...

A McDonalds cheeseburger in 2000 was 39 cents. Today that same cheeseburger is nearly $1.50. Minimum wage has remained largely stagnant since then so I don't see the causation. You could blame the rising cost of goods on anything. The switch to organics, all naturals, no additives, etc..
 
stelonous said:
Its weird that many think that universal minimum wage won't affect the cost of goods. You know, the stuff that needs to have a price increase so that companies can now pay $15 an hour for a burger flipper? Just look at what happened in Venezuela with their recent wage increases. Granted, that country is already a socialist shithole but the idea remains the same. Just because the wage increases that doesn't mean that the goods won't increase as well and those people will end up in the same situation.
Click to expand...

Those arguing for "living wages" forget one minor factor in running a business. Profit. Labor is a huge cost and as it rises, so will prices.

I really hope this thread doesn't devolve into discussions about price control but I have a feeling it will.
 
That_Sound_Guy said:
My biggest concern with $15 an hour for jobs like this is luring people away from jobs that pay the same or less than vitally more important roles.

Example: Paramedics in my area $14-$16 for their first ~7 years. The filth, responsibility, danger, terrible hours and lawsuit potential of that job is extremely high. The biggest threat at Amazon is not meeting your quota, maybe some tissue injuries from heavy lifting etc... Someone looking for a job may very likely skip the dangerous job that is hard, poor hours but personally fulfilling saving lives to do a job that is just fast paced, repetitive and generally much safer but in the end has no human psyche value.

I work in the 911 space. It's nice to know what I'm doing helps people in sometimes their most dire need.
Click to expand...

When min wage is ~$8/hr, $14 looks pretty good. And $14 may have been good when the scale was set. Today with bills rising and benefits being cut, $14 sucks as a trained career path wage. But all anyone hears from the talking heads on the media outlets is the rising cost of healthcare.
 
tetris42 said:
The whole purpose of the creation of the minimum wage was to ensure that anyone working full time could support themselves. The owner class has never liked this and has worked hard to seed the notion that this is only meant for teenagers with summer jobs. Judging by the reactions in this thread, their campaign has been highly successful.

To me, it's simple: Anyone working a full time job should be able to afford food on the table, a roof over their heads, and essentials like medical care. If that's simply not possible under the current minimum wage, then by its own definition, it's set too low. If, as some say, the country is so poor, or the economy is so fragile, that increasing the minimum wage to those levels would lead to a permanent economic collapse because businesses wouldn't be able to afford most of their employees, then the whole system is a house of cards that needs to be revised ASAP. People working full time deserve to have their basic needs yet. If they don't, then it's just a bad system that needs to be changed.
Click to expand...

there are many examples where those making minimum wage when it was established could afford to pay for their household. One minimum wage income to pay for a home, car, kids, house, and wife. Of course most things were made at home. Clothes were made at home, food was grown in the garden to supplement incomes. As we have become more Urbane we have given up those skills of the past and opted for going out to eat. This is why it's more of a big deal as well.

It would be interesting to see how a family that had their own garden, family home, made everything they reasonably could would function on minimum wage.

Where I live is close to a hispanic community. They manage to cut costs a lot simply by buying food in the raw at the cheap grocery stores and making what they need. There is a pride in doing that, that a lot o America is missing. A large part of that in my opinion is the urbanization of our society.
 
tetris42 said:
The whole purpose of the creation of the minimum wage was to ensure that anyone working full time could support themselves. The owner class has never liked this and has worked hard to seed the notion that this is only meant for teenagers with summer jobs. Judging by the reactions in this thread, their campaign has been highly successful.

To me, it's simple: Anyone working a full time job should be able to afford food on the table, a roof over their heads, and essentials like medical care. If that's simply not possible under the current minimum wage, then by its own definition, it's set too low. If, as some say, the country is so poor, or the economy is so fragile, that increasing the minimum wage to those levels would lead to a permanent economic collapse because businesses wouldn't be able to afford most of their employees, then the whole system is a house of cards that needs to be revised ASAP. People working full time deserve to have their basic needs yet. If they don't, then it's just a bad system that needs to be changed.
Click to expand...
I partially agree. I would say that this country is moving towards more service industries. So where someone worked in a factory 30 years ago at a decent wage, now they work at Wal-Mart or somewhere serving customers. Same person, same work ethic, just a different business because it's how the economy is changing. So I try to be thoughtful about the discussion around "fast food is only for teenagers".
 
daglesj said:
Yup poor folks have to SPEND their money. Rich folks get the pleasure of HIDING theirs.
Click to expand...

Really? The rich don't spend? Come on. If you think the majority of wealth is created in this country I have a bridge to sell you.
 
NickJames said:
A McDonalds cheeseburger in 2000 was 39 cents. Today that same cheeseburger is nearly $1.50. Minimum wage has remained largely stagnant since then so I don't see the causation. You could blame the rising cost of goods on anything. The switch to organics, all naturals, no additives, etc..
Click to expand...

In California, minimum wage in 2000 was 5.75. It's now 11. Federal minimum wage increased from 5.15 (in 2000) to the current 7.25.
 
cageymaru said:
Well around here, minimum wage jobs are jobs such as farming. So while it is nice to say that they shouldn't be working those jobs, I think the fact that you probably eat food means that someone HAS to work a minimum wage job. And I agree with you that bumping up the minimum wage does pretty much nothing as the wealth in America needs to be redistributed from the top hoarders. Which will never happen.
Click to expand...
This part is a myth. The cost for food paid at the farm ridiculously lower than what most people pay at retail. The price increase would be trivial to end consumers.
 
alxnet7227 said:
In California, minimum wage in 2000 was 5.75. It's now 11. Federal minimum wage increased from 5.15 (in 2000) to the current 7.25.
Click to expand...

So a 28% (which is still way below inflation) increase warrants a nearly 400% in product? Student Loans and healthcare costs have even seen a similar increase.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Hate to be "that guy" (not really.. I love being "that guy") but Amazon did not raise the minimum wage, they simply gave their employees more money, the minimum wage means the lowest amount you are allowed to pay someone, not the smallest amount you pay as a company
Click to expand...

Hate to break it to you but "the lowest pay someone can make at a company" is the definition of a "minimum wage" for a company.
 
NickJames said:
Really? The rich don't spend? Come on. If you think the majority of wealth is created in this country I have a bridge to sell you.
Click to expand...

Oh they spend but they also hide a lot of it.

How many Big macs or Ford F-150s do the Koch Brothers or their 1% buddies buy a year? How many of them shop at Walmart etc.

Poor people are essential to any modern economy. Far more than Wall St. will let on.
 
daglesj said:
Oh they spend but they also hide a lot of it.

How many Big macs or Ford F-150s do the Koch Brothers or their 1% buddies buy a year? How many of them shop at Walmart etc.

Poor people are essential to any modern economy. Far more than Wall St. will let on.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't expect the 1% to shop at Walmart, the perpetual money machine is just there to fund their trust babies of the current generation who then proceed to blow it all on overpriced garbage instead of just garbage thus keeping the cycle of cash flow at the top.
 
tetris42 said:
Yeah, we had a Great Depression and had big government intervention with Glass-Steagall to prevent it from happening again. That prevented another Great Depression for 65 years. We repealed it in 1999, less than 10 years later we had the biggest crash since the Great Depression. If only the government never intervened! Think of all the wonderful crashes we missed out on!
Click to expand...

AMEN!!!!

Then the banks had the nerve to tell the govt if you don't bail us out, it'll be a shitshow...then once they got their bailouts, they told the rest of Joe Q. Public we need a shave and a haircut.

There will be another crash in the next 10-15 years that'll make Oct 2008 look like 1st Grade.
 
OFaceSIG said:
You probably think Unions created the workers paradise we have today. Guess what. They didn't.

Henry Ford created the first $5 hour wage, long before it was the minimum wage.
He mandated the 40 hour work week.
He mandated no weekend work.

Again, he did this to attract workers.

Capitalism, has done more to lift people out of poverty than any law ever has.

Sorry, brobro.... laws are the wrong approach.

Competition for jobs is the correct appraoch.
Click to expand...

tetris42 said:
Yeah, we had a Great Depression and had big government intervention with Glass-Steagall to prevent it from happening again. That prevented another Great Depression for 65 years. We repealed it in 1999, less than 10 years later we had the biggest crash since the Great Depression. If only the government never intervened! Think of all the wonderful crashes we missed out on!
Click to expand...


Just so everyone is on the same page here, the US is not a true capitalist country. The issue is that we are a mixed economy which embraces crony capitalism.

Real capitalism means you don't have protective markets (no tariffs, free markets), that monopolies and duopolies are limited by competition (competition welcomed, not stifled), and an absence of cronyism (abuse of power to gain economic advantages, corporate welfare). True capitalism is just like true socialism, they exist only in textbook definitions and both rely on the assumption that people are good. People are amoral shits and that is unlikely to change. We want to stamp out our competitors even if we have to do so at a loss, we will bribe and lie and pass regulations to help our interests.

In order for capitalism to be successful for an entire country/society, regulations have to exist in order to stamp out the aforementioned amoral shittiness of humanity.


The only fix for the above problems is somehow removing the majority of money from politics, probably not possible with a representative democracy.
 
jpm100 said:
This part is a myth. The cost for food paid at the farm ridiculously lower than what most people pay at retail. The price increase would be trivial to end consumers.
Click to expand...
The farmers are still going to only pay minimum wage or slightly higher to the farmhands. Think of them as the Jeff Bezos of crops. :)
 
OFaceSIG said:
You probably think Unions created the workers paradise we have today. Guess what. They didn't.

Henry Ford created the first $5 hour wage, long before it was the minimum wage.
He mandated the 40 hour work week.
He mandated no weekend work.

Again, he did this to attract workers.

Capitalism, has done more to lift people out of poverty than any law ever has.

Sorry, brobro.... laws are the wrong approach.

Competition for jobs is the correct appraoch.
Click to expand...
Ford was the exception not the rule. People love to use this example like every company was like him. They were not.
 
cyclone3d said:
HAHAHAHAHA. And then when EVERYBODY raises prices to offset the cost of the increase to a $15 minimum wage, you are right back where you started.

All it does in the long run is cause inflation.

Also not trying to start an argument.. but it is economics 101.

Also, what is going to happen to those people that are going to be taking a hit because they are not going to get the same increase in wages? What about them? They are going to have to also be paying more and not get an increase in pay.

I just "love" redistribution of wealth.

Another thing... MINIMUM WAGE JOBS ARE NOT MEANT TO BE CAREER JOBS. THEY ARE MEANT TO BE ENTRY LEVEL POSITIONS. If you are staying in a minimum wage job, you have absolutely no place to complain. Better yourself and get a better paying job.
Click to expand...

Inflation? Economics 101?
I mean, yeah Amazon is big, but not THAT big. The article say the wage increase is for Amazon employees, and you guys are reacting like the increase is for the whole country's labor force.

250.000 people (which I assume includes higher positions, not only the minimal wage ones) are not really a struggle for the Federal Reserve and not the same as an increase in the legal minimal wage; perspective is a thing. Suddenly everyone an economist here.

PS: gotta love the all caps laugh, I'm sure it makes your argument stronger.

Edit: I can't english

Edit 2: my mistake, the 250.000 in the article are the ones benefited, not the global number of employees, my opinion is still the same though.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top