Amazon Developing The Lord of the Rings Multi Season Television Show

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topcat989

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Lord of the Rings movies should be condemned for not having enough people of color, transgenders, and portraying white supremacy with their Gandalf....


Ppppfffffffttttt

I hope they take their time and do this series right and it won't get spoiled by diversity quota and appeasing to SJWs.

You shouldn't have tempted The Gods

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To say that I’m looking forward to this is an epic understatement!

All I ask is that they don’t pull the same SJW shit that Star Trek Discovery did that drove most of the fanbase away.

Whelp
 

Darunion

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Treebeard was a tree of color! Balrog was orange and the the men of the mountain were.... greenish?
 

TrevorR

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Like I get wanting to do it, but just do it and don't go around bragging about it, makes it disingenuous and more marketing.

I normally don't see the issue with these things, like who cares if there's diversity. I'm slightly left leaning but I'm with you, just do it and say nothing and no one will have an issue with it.

It seems like its only an issue if its advertised.


EDIT: However, what if someone asked the directors or the show creators if it will be diverse? They are then put in a situation where they're forced to say this.
 

Darunion

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EDIT: However, what if someone asked the directors or the show creators if it will be diverse? They are then put in a situation where they're forced to say this.
That is a fair point. I would forgive such a response then :D
 
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Like I get wanting to do it, but just do it and don't go around bragging about it, makes it disingenuous and more marketing.

It's marketing not bragging. Companies are always really selling to the next generations. The reason you see this massive moment to this now is corporate signaling to the under 40 crowd that they are onboard with that culture. That's where the money is really going to be and those generations really expect corporations to either line up with their values, or at lest not have values that are hostile to theirs.

Corporations are in a "get work or go broke" situation across the board and reacting rapidly to it.

And really it's not like this hasn't always been the case.
 

The Mad Atheist

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Heard people were crying LOTR had no strong female characters and blew my mind.
I know of 3 right away if not of them, the mission to destroy the ring would've failed.

2. About the lack of diversity issues..... FFS, it's a fantasy that takes place to what is equally Europe, you pretty much didn't have much diversity there, back in a time when the masses didn't travel much.
3. This is Tolkien's work, he, IIRC, was Catholic. If he didn't want certain people in it, that's fine, how do these wokes know if certain people even existed in Tolkien's world in the first place?
 

topcat989

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1_rick

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3. This is Tolkien's work, he, IIRC, was Catholic. If he didn't want certain people in it, that's fine, how do these wokes know if certain people even existed in Tolkien's world in the first place?
They're stupid and they don't care, is how. An episode of Doctor Who a few years ago had an episode where they had a group of people from the British Army, and they included one guy who was (East) Indian. When people said "at that point in time, there were no Indians allowed in the army, so this is historically incorrect" they basically said they didn't care.
 

TrevorR

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Why? Was Lord of the Rings movies boring, uninspiring, or otherwise lacking because of it's normal characters? Did the movies fail at the box office? Or the many movie awards shows? Did not many "diverse" people pay money, enthusiastically, to see these movies?

https://twitter.com/TheCriticalDri2/status/1448377675274407939

View attachment 403123
We are in 2021, not the early 2000s. The times are changing.

Are you saying that if the new LOTR series had a diverse cast and it wasn't advertised as being such, you would have a problem with it?

It goes both ways.
 

idiomatic

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Its called queer baiting. They won't actually do any meaningful changes, just say that they will so they get free pro-queer and anti-queer rage marketing.

When the show rolls around there won't be any changes of note.
 
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We are in 2021, not the early 2000s. The times are changing.

Are you saying that if the new LOTR series had a diverse cast and it wasn't advertised as being such, you would have a problem with it?

It goes both ways.

Yeah this. In the old days stuff was heavily marketed to white male Christian conservatives and would go out of their way to advertise about scary black urban men vs white avenging men with damsels in distress because that's where the culture and the buying power was. That culture is utterly over. Which is why the marketing around all issues has kept shifting with each generation. The current generations they are marketing to so they can capture them for the next 50+ years as consumers who like their brand are majority non white, women hold the major buying power, and want to see their gay friends represented. Not only do they not want the old stuff, they'll actively boycott companies and products that market on it. And since that's where all the money is shifting to and is going to be for decades that's what marketing is about.

This isn't about being woke. This is about a bunch of rich assholes in suits who are still majority white seeing where the money is and is going to be and chasing after it to make sure they keep their fat paychecks and their companies can hoover it all up. None of them give a flying fuck about any of this.
They're stupid and they don't care, is how. An episode of Doctor Who a few years ago had an episode where they had a group of people from the British Army, and they included one guy who was (East) Indian. When people said "at that point in time, there were no Indians allowed in the army, so this is historically incorrect" they basically said they didn't care.

No, they are smart. They know that their target consumers have changed both in the cultures that consume their media and what their consumers want. And that those changes are going to be all the more drastic in the next few decades. So they are getting out in front of the changes before they get hit by the freight train to hoover up customers and money and don't give two shits about a smaller consumer base that is rapidly shrinking. If anything, the complaining about it works in their favor.

These are all corporate decisions that have nothing to do with ideology. It's all about getting away from a consumer base that doesn't really matter and soon won't matter at all and chasing after the consumer base that does matter and is only rapidly growing and is going to be dominant for decades. If making Spider Man Miles Morales keeps the product going longer and keeps them in scotch blow cigars and hookers than Morales he will be!

Capitalism only see's green and it's only ideology is money. That's the cause of everything now.
 

1_rick

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These are all corporate decisions that have nothing to do with ideology.
You have no idea what you're talking about. You didn't address what I wrote, and you can't, because there are news articles at the time that talked about it, and that one show isn't the only time that it happened. The people in charge of the show explicitly--that means "in so many words"--said that they didn't care about historical accuracy.
 
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You have no idea what you're talking about. You didn't address what I wrote, and you can't, because there are news articles at the time that talked about it, and that one show isn't the only time that it happened. The people in charge of the show explicitly--that means "in so many words"--said that they didn't care about historical accuracy.
Forget the topic of diversity for a moment. I'll 'forgive' an all black and Asian hobits for all I care so long as it's an accurate portrayal of the books.
But what is this talk about not caring about accuracy? I thought the Tolkien estate didn't like have their stories rewritten. They had to bring Bezos to visit them for assurances. Now we have stories that don't reflect the books because the people in charge don't care about accuracy? Is this true? Surprised the Tolkien estate would sign off on this.
 

t1337duder

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Television and movies are so bad, I can't even see the artistry in it anymore. All I see is propaganda. I wonder how long until people catch on that Hollywood is just a propaganda machine. Hollywood obviously doesn't represent the USA. While the vast majority of Americans were busy building a country back then, another group of people made a concerted effort to control and influence it. They get really upset if you talk about it. They'll shut you down and then claim they have no power.
 
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Television and movies are so bad, I can't even see the artistry in it anymore. All I see is propaganda. I wonder how long until people catch on that Hollywood is just a propaganda machine. Hollywood obviously doesn't represent the USA. While the vast majority of Americans were busy building a country back then, another group of people made a concerted effort to control and influence it. They get really upset if you talk about it. They'll shut you down and then claim they have no power.

They've always reflected the dominant culture and majority views/values and then changed to get out ahead of the new one. That's how they made money.
You have no idea what you're talking about. You didn't address what I wrote, and you can't, because there are news articles at the time that talked about it, and that one show isn't the only time that it happened. The people in charge of the show explicitly--that means "in so many words"--said that they didn't care about historical accuracy.

If it's not a documentary it's never cared about accuracy it's cared about eyeballs and money. And if that requires twisting things up then that's what they will do.

What you can't accept that this isn't a conspiracy, it's just the same people who've always been chasing dollars noticing the crowd with the most people and the most money has changed and catering to that crowd. Complaining about it is just denying that reality and howling into the void. This is the same as it's ever been.
 

t1337duder

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They've always reflected the dominant culture and majority views/values and then changed to get out ahead of the new one. That's how they made money.
Not only completely wrong but also completely misunderstands how America came together as a country. America wasn't founded as a melting pot, nor did it become one until it was depicted as one in Hollywood, and as a result immigration policies were changed to reflect those values. Hollywood has created a hyperreality that most Americans live in but doesn't line up with actual reality.

What you say can be quickly dismissed by the fact that popular celebrities, researchers, political figures, etc. are not allowed to have a voice because their opinions do not like up with dominant culture in Hollywood. If these people were genuinely interested in money, they would let them freely express themselves in the market. After all - half of the USA agrees with the opinions of what those in Hollywood would consider "deplorable". These Americans who weren't represented in Hollywood even elected a President.

Reality is that the dominant force behind Hollywood has never been part of the dominant culture. That's still the case now. Study the names of the people who make decisions in Hollywood. Then study American demographics. If you like seeing patterns, then you'll love the pattern you're about to discover.

Cultural values of America were extremely different back then if you look at the polling statistics from that time period. Despite what the television might lead you to believe, Americans opposed WW2. Yet in "A Wonderful Life", it was depicted that this was an unpopular position and anyone where shares it should be punched. Of course, American intelligence had knowledge of Pearl Harbor before it happened and let it happen anyways to fuel the geopolitical agenda of the elites. American values were overwhelmingly different back then, and over time, they've been gradually changed to reflect the values that Hollywood has been trying to achieve for the last 100+ years. It's undeniable and you'd be a fool to argue against this.

Edit: For fun, let's go into this a little deeper. Here are a list of recent movies, some are established franchises. What are they about?

(Firstly, I respect all nationalities. But I will need to be uncomfortably specific to make the point.)

"Creed" - Rocky Balboa trains that son of Apollo Creed now that he's too old.

"Rambo: Last Blood" - Rambo risks his life to protect Mexicans from cartels, literally "riding off into the sunset"at the end.

"Logan" - Wolverine sacrifices his life to save a mutant immigrant child

"Gran Torino" - Clint Eastwood sacrifices his life to save an Asian kid.

"Cry Macho" - Clint Eastwood will likely sacrifice his life to save a Mexican kid.

"Tommorowland" - George Clooney needs to risk everything so that the immigrants can save the world.

"The Midnight Sky" - George Clooney must risk everything so that a single interracial couple can repopulate a whole planet all by themselves.

"Terminator: Dark Fate" - Linda Hamilton and Arnold Schwarzenegger must risk everything to save a Hispanic girl who's ACTUALLY going to save the world, not John Conner.

"Knives Out" - Christopher Plummer sacrifices himself to make sure Hispanic maid gets all of his inheritance.

"James Bond: Too Late To Die" - Daniel Craig hands over his position as 007 to a black woman.

SO...the agenda is obvious. Now it's up to you to explain to me these two things...

1) If Hollywood and Americans shared the dominant culture, then why is Hollywood encouraging Americans to give everything they have to immigrants, in the movies they create? How is that in my interest as an American?

2) Where are all the movies that reflect the values of Americans who disagree with what's happening? Where's the "free market" to appeal to them? Oh right, it doesn't exist! The free market is a complete fabrication that exists in people's heads which allows people with power to socially engineer society and then claim that these things happen naturally.

If you think this won't lead to a future conflict which echo's past conflicts, again, you're living in hyperreality. People are going to notice, get mad, and reciprocate.
 
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1_rick

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What you can't accept that this isn't a conspiracy, it's just the same people who've always been chasing dollars noticing the crowd with the most people and the most money has changed and catering to that crowd.
Wake me up when someone remakes a traditional Chinese movie and replaces a character with a White person.
 

1_rick

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But what is this talk about not caring about accuracy? I thought the Tolkien estate didn't like have their stories rewritten.
My first comment was about Doctor Who, where they inserted a person of one ethnicity into a historical group where there weren't any. One the one hand, people are free to cast as they see fit, but it's weird when you do something ahistorical.
 

PeaKr

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Yeah this. In the old days stuff was heavily marketed to white male Christian conservatives and would go out of their way to advertise about scary black urban men vs white avenging men with damsels in distress because that's where the culture and the buying power was. That culture is utterly over. Which is why the marketing around all issues has kept shifting with each generation. The current generations they are marketing to so they can capture them for the next 50+ years as consumers who like their brand are majority non white, women hold the major buying power, and want to see their gay friends represented. Not only do they not want the old stuff, they'll actively boycott companies and products that market on it. And since that's where all the money is shifting to and is going to be for decades that's what marketing is about.

This isn't about being woke. This is about a bunch of rich assholes in suits who are still majority white seeing where the money is and is going to be and chasing after it to make sure they keep their fat paychecks and their companies can hoover it all up. None of them give a flying fuck about any of this.


No, they are smart. They know that their target consumers have changed both in the cultures that consume their media and what their consumers want. And that those changes are going to be all the more drastic in the next few decades. So they are getting out in front of the changes before they get hit by the freight train to hoover up customers and money and don't give two shits about a smaller consumer base that is rapidly shrinking. If anything, the complaining about it works in their favor.

These are all corporate decisions that have nothing to do with ideology. It's all about getting away from a consumer base that doesn't really matter and soon won't matter at all and chasing after the consumer base that does matter and is only rapidly growing and is going to be dominant for decades. If making Spider Man Miles Morales keeps the product going longer and keeps them in scotch blow cigars and hookers than Morales he will be!

Capitalism only see's green and it's only ideology is money. That's the cause of everything now.
https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=yptXkLglKkA
 

idiomatic

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Wake me up when someone remakes a traditional Chinese movie and replaces a character with a White person.
That's... like an entire genre.

Also lol at all the Euro-Americans who don't think they're immigrants.

Hollywood has always been propaganda. An optimistic, but pretty conservative projection, digestible by middle America.

Why was Hollywood built by Jews? They were locked out of most industries and 'decent' people didn't want to be anywhere Vaudeville.

The Tolkien stuff, its supremely unlikely they do anything actually pro-queer, and also unlikely they change the world very much. If they Discovery it then it won't be Tolkien anymore and will probably be liable to the Estate.

 

rinaldo00

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Yeah this. In the old days stuff was heavily marketed to white male Christian conservatives and would go out of their way to advertise about scary black urban men vs white avenging men with damsels in distress because that's where the culture and the buying power was. That culture is utterly over. Which is why the marketing around all issues has kept shifting with each generation. The current generations they are marketing to so they can capture them for the next 50+ years as consumers who like their brand are majority non white, women hold the major buying power, and want to see their gay friends represented. Not only do they not want the old stuff, they'll actively boycott companies and products that market on it. And since that's where all the money is shifting to and is going to be for decades that's what marketing is about.

This isn't about being woke. This is about a bunch of rich assholes in suits who are still majority white seeing where the money is and is going to be and chasing after it to make sure they keep their fat paychecks and their companies can hoover it all up. None of them give a flying fuck about any of this.


No, they are smart. They know that their target consumers have changed both in the cultures that consume their media and what their consumers want. And that those changes are going to be all the more drastic in the next few decades. So they are getting out in front of the changes before they get hit by the freight train to hoover up customers and money and don't give two shits about a smaller consumer base that is rapidly shrinking. If anything, the complaining about it works in their favor.

These are all corporate decisions that have nothing to do with ideology. It's all about getting away from a consumer base that doesn't really matter and soon won't matter at all and chasing after the consumer base that does matter and is only rapidly growing and is going to be dominant for decades. If making Spider Man Miles Morales keeps the product going longer and keeps them in scotch blow cigars and hookers than Morales he will be!

Capitalism only see's green and it's only ideology is money. That's the cause of everything now.
Yet all of the new woke movies have bombed at the box office. Companies are making the same mistake you are. They pay too much attention to the virtue signaling on social media but the people complaining never were going to see that type of movie anyway, the stuff that straight white males enjoy.
 

Shoganai

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Yet all of the new woke movies have bombed at the box office. Companies are making the same mistake you are. They pay too much attention to the virtue signaling on social media but the people complaining never were going to see that type of movie anyway, the stuff that straight white males enjoy.
Yeah ... both movies and TV shows and entire networks are losing massive viewership due to this forced woke crap. The "audience" these things cater to are a very small minority of the population, it's just that this population is much louder than everyone else. I couldn't stomach watching more than 30 minutes of the new season of Survivor, in which Jeff is no longer allowed to say "come on in GUYS" ... as not to offend anyone ... even though that's been his catchphrase for over two decades. They were harping on about how this is the first season with a diverse cast and transgender and gay competitors even though that's been a thing for a long time on the show. People have even come out on that show, both as gay and transgender, on live TV. Super obnoxious force-fed crap is killing ratings everywhere.
 

michalrz

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"Amazon has women working in their warehouses"
"Amazon has women working in their warehouses"

One is, depending on the current trend, a horrible accusation that can spark an international human rights campaign.
The other is, depending on the current trend, a reason to praise Amazon for their progressive ways and rejoice.
 

polonyc2

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Amazon released the first teaser for the new LOTR: The Rings of Power series during the Super Bowl...looks really impressive...Amazon looks like they spent a ton of $$ on the visuals...

 

LukeTbk

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1) If Hollywood and Americans shared the dominant culture, then why is Hollywood encouraging Americans to give everything they have to immigrants, in the movies they create? How is that in my interest as an American? ("Creed" - Rocky Balboa trains that son of Apollo Creed now that he's too old.)



Not a Rocky expert but I would have thought Apollo Creed and is son are American has Apple pie or baseball, born in Los Angeles, he wear American flag short organize the fight using America 200 year's anniversary, etc....

Why was Hollywood built by Jews? They were locked out of most industries and 'decent' people didn't want to be anywhere Vaudeville.
I thought that the east coast were enforcing Thomas Eddison patents more has well, people wanting to compete being forced to go more in a far west part (for the location being Los Angeles instead of staying in New-York), where those patent were not enforced by the state:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_Picture_Patents_Company

Yet all of the new woke movies have bombed at the box office.

I think that a confirmation bias/selective memory, if Captain Marvel/Force Awaken/Fury Road/Ocean 8/Us-Get Out would have failed they would go into the woke failure column of some, if they become a giant success it is forgotten.

This isn't about being woke. This is about a bunch of rich assholes in suits who are still majority white seeing where the money is and is going to be and chasing after it to make sure they keep their fat paychecks and their companies can hoover it all up. None of them give a flying fuck about any of this.
Maybe for flagship property like that, but there is a lot more than optimizing money and clients that goes in the business world and in the movies world maybe more than average, there is a lot of fear of having a really bad week on twitter, your own young staff and so on that goes.

Even if they do not give any fuck about any of this (I doubt that), they to hire people that do and some that it is their jobs to care and saying no to sensitivity reader, the consultants and talents on those question is really uncomfortable, you're already rich, and it is not your money being spent.

Is this true? Surprised the Tolkien estate would sign off on this.
The rumoured price tag for the adaptation rights was around 250 millions, you can imagine being open for that money. And considering how many versions of the first movie's the Weinstein company has over time (only one movie, 2 movie), I imagine that it was not under thigh control of the estate.
 
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Okatis

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Amazon released the first teaser for the new LOTR: The Rings of Power series during the Super Bowl...looks really impressive...Amazon looks like they spent a ton of $$ on the visuals...


Solid trailer. The end title reveal was sorely lacking impact though, given how the trailer was crescendo'ing up to it. Just a flare from the static title and fading in? Contrast that to the more creative title announcement trailer.
 

Flogger23m

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America wasn't founded as a melting pot, nor did it become one until it was depicted as one in Hollywood, and as a result immigration policies were changed to reflect those values.

That is correct.

"James Bond: Too Late To Die" - Daniel Craig hands over his position as 007 to a black woman.

Technically no, he didn't. That isn't what happened in the story. But yes, your point otherwise stands.
 

readeh

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Solid trailer. The end title reveal was sorely lacking impact though, given how the trailer was crescendo'ing up to it. Just a flare from the static title and fading in? Contrast that to the more creative title announcement trailer.
Looks more like a parody of LOTR to me. The view of her climbing the ice cliff looks weirdly off and I get more of a Mortal Engines vibe than LOTR vibe. You'll be disappointed, trust me.

Take a look at the comments on that YouTube video.
 

Okatis

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Looks more like a parody of LOTR to me. The view of her climbing the ice cliff looks weirdly off and I get more of a Mortal Engines vibe than LOTR vibe. You'll be disappointed, trust me.

Take a look at the comments on that YouTube video.
The ice climbing physics looks off but so does Legolas jumping in various scenes :p Honestly I was put off from even watching The Hobbit trilogy so I'm curious how others approach a different period.
 

readeh

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The ice climbing physics looks off but so does Legolas jumping in various scenes :p Honestly I was put off from even watching The Hobbit trilogy so I'm curious how others approach a different period.
The hobbit CGI was pretty ridiculous at times.. well most of the time and one of the reasons why it's not considered a masterpiece like the LOTR trilogy. That and the goofy humor.
 

readeh

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the fact that this series explores a new time period (Second Age) in the Tolkien universe is what's most exciting for me...

Amazon’s Lord of the Rings Series Rises: Inside The Rings of Power

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/02/amazon-the-rings-of-power-series-first-look
Don't get too hyped. It's losely based on Silmarillion, but a far fetch from the original view of Tolkien.
My guess is this tv series will tank hard, especially when you consider their LGBT and people of color diversity bullshit even though middle earth is pretty damn diverse as it is.
This should also give you a hint: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4259881/?mode=desktop&ref_=m_ft_dsk
The man has done nothing.
 

polonyc2

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This should also give you a hint: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4259881/?mode=desktop&ref_=m_ft_dsk
The man has done nothing.

before Game of Thrones David Benioff and Dan Weiss hadn't really done a lot but they nailed it (the first 4 seasons)...plus Amazon is spending $400 million on the first season alone...that number includes the sum paid to the Tolkien estate but it's still the most expensive TV show ever made...no way will it tank...it might disappoint after all the years of buildup and hype but it won't fail...I think this is going to be Amazon's version of Game of Thrones in terms of buzzy watercooler series
 

M76

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before Game of Thrones David Benioff and Dan Weiss hadn't really done a lot but they nailed it (the first 4 seasons)...plus Amazon is spending $400 million on the first season alone...that number includes the sum paid to the Tolkien estate but it's still the most expensive TV show ever made...no way will it tank...it might disappoint after all the years of buildup and hype but it won't fail...I think this is going to be Amazon's version of Game of Thrones in terms of buzzy watercooler series
LOL, no. It would have to be good to be that. Game of Thrones was good at least for the first few season. There is no indiciation that this will be anything but a CW series made from 100x the money.
The GOT creators had the writer working and guiding them, as soon as they went their own way the show disintegrated. LOTR series creators not just don't have any guidance, they are deliberately going against Tolkiens notions of Middle Earth.
 

polonyc2

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LOL, no. It would have to be good to be that. Game of Thrones was good at least for the first few season. There is no indiciation that this will be anything but a CW series made from 100x the money.

you're saying that it's going to suck before even watching 1 frame of footage (not including the trailer)...sounds like you judge TV series the same way you review games ;)
 

M76

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you're saying that it's going to suck before even watching 1 frame of footage (not including the trailer)...sounds like you judge TV series the same way you review games ;)
Repeating nonsense won't make it true. Which game did I review without playing it? Citation needed.
 

polonyc2

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Which game did I review without playing it? Citation needed.

Deathloop...you said: "I'm tempted to get this just so I can tear it a new one" weeks before the game was even released...meaning you made up your mind before even playing it
 
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