![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Alex St John doesn't think Vista is a very good OS for gaming on
- Thread starter Gatticus
- Start date
- Status
Seriously. Microsoft was touting some gamer thingy for Vista Ultimate that put the OS into a minimal resources mode before launching a game and it was only supposed to come with the Ultimate version. I know it existed because I looked it up once and read about it at Microsofts website. It said it was a feature of Ultimate only. Now when I look up Vista Ultimate features I see no mention of that feature. Has that been incorporated into all versions of Vista now?
Actually the OS pushes everything to the side automatically just so that it can focus on that application. So yeah, you got your button but you can actually see it. It's automatic, ooh!
Does that include Windows Defender? Vista shuts down Defender when launching a game and starts it up again after the game session is over? I doubt it.
No use arguing with duby.. as referenced here. Don't get me wrong, he seems to know his *nix pretty well, but he just needs to keep his trap shut about stuff he has no clue about, has never used, and has serious bias against.
You know, you would be an awesome witness.
You: "I saw Joe kill Sally. It was horrible."
Judge: "Do you have any evidence to back this up?"
You: "Certainly. I saw a weapon thingy in his hand when I arrived at the scene."
Judge: "What kind of weapon was it?"
You: "It was some sort of dealy he used to kill her"
Yea, you get the point. You will never convince anyone of anything if the best you can come up with is "thingy" and provide nothing to back it up.
Have you seriously not read this thread???
Good job, Johnny! You can have first pick of the new toys today.
Yea... Vista shuts down Windows Defender (part of the new security) in order for you to play a game.
InorganicMatter
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2004
- Messages
- 15,461
You have got to be kidding me. You're comparing a six year old OS with a six month old OS, and trying to say the six month old one sucks because its drivers aren't as mature as the six year old one.
That's like trying to compare the maturity level of a four year old with a forty year old.Do you pay attention at all? This "thingy" you're speaking of is the same thing we've been talking about for two pages now. When you launch an application that Vista detects will be graphics or memory intensive, it shuts off unused services background services and features like Aero and Defender, then re-launches them when you exit the app.
I haven't noticed it shutting off Defender, in fact I remember Defender giving me a notice when I was trying out the chess on here.
I haven't tried a "real" game, either... I guess in those sorts of games where you don't do anything other than play the game, it would make more sense to shut that stuff down.
Whereas like Chess, I generally use to kill 30 seconds of downtime, minimize it, etc.
D
Deleted member 80813
Guest
It does suck for gaming. What happened to Open GL support? I just installed and tried to run Return to Castle Wolfenstein. Nope not gonna play. Open GL error when the game tries to load.
Add to the fact I have other programs that wont even install (Zone Alarm for one.)
Add to the fact I have other programs that wont even install (Zone Alarm for one.)
Wow, you and the other mouth piece, zacdl, are contradicting each other.
If you guys don't know what the "thingy" is that I refer too then you didn't follow Vista development very closely. Obviously the reason I can't find info on this game "thingy" is because Microsoft pulled it because they changed the extras that Ultimate came with.
Claiming Vista puts the OS into an optimized state when running a game but leaves Defender running is another contradiction. And to zacdl, Defender is only needed when running a web browser and not when playing a game, doh!
Heliocentrical
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
- Messages
- 2,852
lol.
I have a different theory. You just made it up.
It's one thing to be outraged at something that's real, but it's another to make up something and then become outraged by it.
Ah, lookee what I found.
http://www.hwupgrade.com/articles/software/11/microsoft-windows-vista-a-brief-preview_2.html
Windows Vista Ultimate: This edition is, as the name suggests, the ultimate edition of Vista. It combines all of the features of the Business and Home segment into one product. This version is aimed at gamers, multimedia professionals, and enthusiasts. A main feature of the OS is that it includes a game performance optimizer known as WinSAT.
This article says Winsat is just the Windows System Assesment Tool http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_System_Assessment_Tool
The first article is talking about a game optimizer that was to be only available in Vista Ultimate. Did Microsoft do a bit of back tracking somewhere and included it in all versions of Vista? Or maybe you munchkins are just making shit up and Vista isn't optimized for games at all.
http://www.hwupgrade.com/articles/software/11/microsoft-windows-vista-a-brief-preview_2.html
Windows Vista Ultimate: This edition is, as the name suggests, the ultimate edition of Vista. It combines all of the features of the Business and Home segment into one product. This version is aimed at gamers, multimedia professionals, and enthusiasts. A main feature of the OS is that it includes a game performance optimizer known as WinSAT.
This article says Winsat is just the Windows System Assesment Tool http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_System_Assessment_Tool
The first article is talking about a game optimizer that was to be only available in Vista Ultimate. Did Microsoft do a bit of back tracking somewhere and included it in all versions of Vista? Or maybe you munchkins are just making shit up and Vista isn't optimized for games at all.
LstBrunnenG
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2003
- Messages
- 6,676
More likely he merely saw some other feature and misunderstood it. I do remember hearing about some kind of nebulous "game optimizer" that would supposedly be in Ultimate. Personally, I'm glad they dropped it - seemed like a pretty silly idea.
I thought that DX10 was supposed to be our savior. Either way what they are doing with Vista is a damn good step in the right direction.
Oh my, it's the pot calling the kettle black! With exclamations!
Joe Average, consumer that happens to own a computer, is Microsoft's target audience, not hardcore gamers. Someday all of you will finally come to realize this and then realize that the miniscule sub-.5% of total personal computer owners (the hardcore gamers) is a minority of the highest order and no amount of barking is going to change that.
You want stability? Go buy a fuckin' console based on a platform architecture that doesn't change every other time Newegg has a "HOT DEAL!!!" on a new video card or a bigger hard drive. PCs are nearly infinite in their possible platform architectures. The basic components of a CPU, RAM, hard drive, optical storage, etc... that's as stable as it's going to get.
In a disk based OS, there is no true stability. Everytime you boot the machine you're dealing with a different OS. Hell, there's no true stability on any platform of any kind that can be guaranteed 100%, that's just another myth. Myth I tell you!
Bleh. All this gets people absolutely nowhere and only prolongs the execution date of such threads.
Sorry, but the petty insults run off me like water off a duck's back. And your denial doesn't negate the realities. They simply indicate that, in this instance, you've lost the plot.
Game Explorer and such features aren't ones which are going to either encourage or discourage 'serious' gamers. But don't forget that 'Mum and Dad' users (Joe Average as you like to call them) DO install games. Most household rigs end up with games installed on them at some stage or other, and I'm definitely not referring to Vista's Chess Titans or the Ultimate Extras Texas Hold-Em when I say that. I'm not referring to Bejewelled either! Video gaming is VERY big business, and the PC still commands a sizable shere of a market which rivals Hollywood for gross turnover. Dismissing it offhand is not something which should be done.
Yes, there are quite a few people who try to bung games on systems which can't handle them. But the bulk of problems come from conflicts between display drivers, audio drivers and the rest of the system installation. The vast majority of 'bluescreen events' under XP have been related to just that. Any move to correct the situation should be welcomed. With Vista MS has made just such a move.
The circumstances of 'hardcore' or 'serious' gamers shouldn't be discounted either. 3D gaming on PC is hugely important, in a way disproportionate to the numbers of people participating, because the activity is such an important influence on hardware development.
Hardware instability which emanates from 3D video and audio hardware isn't an inevitable 'given'. It's been as bad as it has been primarily because manufacturers have been given too much free rein. DX10 and WDDM shortens the reins. We should all, eventually, benefit from that. In the interim there'll likely be a bit of pain. It's not worth whining about it. Bleed for the team and all that, eh?
People shouldn't write and publish articles when they don't really know what they're talking about.
Other people shouldn't post about articles on internet forums unless they have the skillz to work out which articles are written by people who don't know what they're talking about and which articles aren't.
O've been following the 'Vista development' rather closely too. Right from since way back when. And there's never been any statement from MS to indicate that a 'Game optimiser' would be included in Vista. There has been speculation to that effect written by people who speculate about such things, just as there has been speculation about lots of other stuff which never ended up being correct. But it never came from any statement of intent made by Microsoft
I didn't read through all the posts, but I'm going to throw it out there that Alex "The Saint" St John has lost his repsect in my eyes.
I know what he did in the past for DirectX, but how the hell can someone be respected when they founded a company that creates known spyware. WildTangent, anyone?
I'll try and find a link to his recent CPU article where he bashes Vista. The problem is, he isn't even factually correct in most of his points, and you can't even take the article seriously because of his anti-MS feelings. He's a self-centered asshat, regardless of what he's done in the past.
I know what he did in the past for DirectX, but how the hell can someone be respected when they founded a company that creates known spyware. WildTangent, anyone?
I'll try and find a link to his recent CPU article where he bashes Vista. The problem is, he isn't even factually correct in most of his points, and you can't even take the article seriously because of his anti-MS feelings. He's a self-centered asshat, regardless of what he's done in the past.
O've been following the 'Vista development' rather closely too. Right from since way back when. And there's never been any statement from MS to indicate that a 'Game optimiser' would be included in Vista. There has been speculation to that effect written by people who speculate about such things, just as there has been speculation about lots of other stuff which never ended up being correct. But it never came from any statement of intent made by Microsoft
Your arrogance once again bites you in the ass. Microsoft did tout a game optimizer for Vista Ultimate and if you care to search through all of my posts to this forum you will find an article from Microsoft stating so. But here is mention of it at Paul Thurrott's website from an old article about Vista. If Microsoft didn't intend for such a feature in Vist Ultimate then where did Paul Thurrott get the idea that there would be one? Because Microsoft told him so! Ooops!
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_editions_final.asp
Windows Vista Ultimate
The best operating system ever offered for a personal PC, optimized for the individual. Windows Vista Ultimate is a superset of both Vista Home Premium and Vista Business, so it includes all of the features of both of those product versions, plus adds *Game Performance Tweaker* with integrated gaming experiences,
i have to say that you bring it up everytime practically. was their any point for you to bring up linux when the OP is talking about whether vista is a good gaming OS? no.... so why bring it up? its getting kind of annoying...well more than kind of. plus gaming is the last thing you should bring linux into a discussion about.
No not really, I have no idea where you have been but this is what Vista does:
When a program starts that requires more RAM than can be allocated it will reallocate RAM from other processes and divert that RAM to the program that requires it. It doesn't shut down any program but it will reallocate that RAM to another process. I.E. Windows Defender, it won't stop it (why would you want an anti-virus program to stop any way?
) and reallocate to another program. If you didn't already know that then read some other posts and see for your self. Anyway, time to convince my dad to let me spend $1.5K on my brother! Wish me luck! (I'll be needing it... )And it would be your ignorance that promptly squeezed your foot back in your mouth. Read and post everything next time, bub.
As quoted from Paul Thurrott's site;
Just because it's speculated, long before it's brought to the light of day, DOES NOT make it so. That was MS and Paul hyping up the OS. A good majority of what was posted there --just not in the form you or they imagined at the time-- is in Vista ultimate as well as some of that 'stuff' actually made it into the other versions. Where's you calling the kettle black for that one, eh?
Edit:Thinking about it now, I think the Windows Index Scores ARE the optimizer mentioned in the above article, along side the games explorer, which every version of Vista received. The theory is that it will make gaming easier if the consumer can 'evaluate' what sort of PC they're buying, what sort of PC the game requires and how they're PC/equipment will stack up. Which, as you posted earlier directly correlates to WinSAT and it's primary function. At the moment, this may make no bit of difference --since most of any [H]'er or gamer can run any game out there-- but what happens when all the Dx10 titles start showing up? And then Dx11?
(why would you want an anti-virus program to stop any way?
Doh! Because it can cause major issues when playing games and is using cpu resources. Every gamer worth his salt knows not to run AV and anti-spyware progs in the background when playing resource demanding games. So Vista frees up ram as needed but that has nothing to do with cpu resources. When running A list games you need maximum computer resources all the time or else you will get hiccups and pauses. And you have the fucking gall to play Mr. Know-it-all with me and use that stupid rolling eyes emoticon? Really, some people!
I already said in another post in this thread that it was probably cut and that is why I can't find any Microsoft articles on it anymore, Bubbah.
If you had taken the time to read the complete thread instead of pulling crap out of your arse you will see that I am being called a liar about this game tweaker and I have proven that there was indeed such a tool planned to be bundled with Vista Ultimate. NEXT!
So when in an Internet-enabled game, and some moron is spreading around Malware- you don't care about it?
Maybe someone should come up with an indexing service, that keeps caches of old websites.
Oh, wait... they do. Could it possibly be you don't want to admit you have no idea what you are talking about?
Weren't you the one that took articles out of context, ignored several posts in this thread that you later asked the same thing about that had already been explained, and fails to provide any backup for what you say?
"NEXT!"- how arrogant.
Seems like I hit a nerve. Hehehe, I have Nod32 running constantly alongside Windows Defender and I have yet to see a decrease in performance. So yes, I do have the gall!
Some people indeed!i just remembered, aren't you that guy that kept posting negative vista articles not too long ago as flame bait? yeah.....
I've already proven what I said is true. Now where are all the apologies?
p.s. you don't run a web browser when running a game so you don't need to have AV and anti-spyware software running in the background even if you are online. Personally, I disco from the internet when playing games (except for MP ones) so have zero use for AV/anti-spyware software when playing a game but I guess some of you haven't figured out how to do that yet.
Only a complete noob would run those apps while playing a game.
Ok, now that is going too damned far. Not everyone thinks that every single fuckin' possible miserable stinkin' CPU cycle is absolutely fuckin' 150% necessary for that extra 1 frame per second difference between leaving the AV software running or disabling it and removing it from RAM completely and totally. You're nitpicking now for the sake of nitpicking just to keep posting, aka trolling.
Both of those apps serve a purpose for the overwhelming majority of the people running them. I use NOD32 myself, and sonny, if you think I'm a noob then you've got a lot to learn about life and the pursuit of performance among other things.
You kids really give me a good laugh around here, I swear...
lol...one of the most ignorant statements i've heard in a long time. gone are the days of just having norton and mcafee eating up processing power or memory. we now have very good av and firewall protection with minimal usage of resources and can leave them running while using intensive apps. thanks for playing...gg
but i suppose only noobs don't know that right?
EDIT: I need to stay in GenMay more...sigh
Would you people get a clue? This dude is a professional troll.
And as we all know, don't feed the trolls.
no shit
You may be a Microsoft geek-boy (aka leg humper) but you know jack shit about being a hardcore gamer. Once again, you don't not run AV software in the background when running resource hungry games - end of story. Many game readme files will tell you the same thing. And I'm not talking about running Chess Titans or MahJong either. Amateurs!
You're not being called a liar. You're being told that you are mistaken in that you've not understood what you've read or heard previously. Quite a few of us heard speculation about a 'games optimiser' which it was posited by some writers might or might not have ended up being included in Vista. Speculation is not the same thing as "planned".
And mention made on Paul Thurrot's website does not constitute 'proof'. Paul can, and does, get it wrong sometimes.
Simple fact is that WinSAT isn't, and never was, a 'Games Optimiser'. A more correct explanation is that game installers can query WinSAT and, depending upon the results obtained from that tool, configure graphics settings in accordance with system capability. Game installers have been doing similar things for a long, long time, of course. The inclusion if WinSAT simply provides a standardised tool for the purpose and makes the task easier for game developers.
So get it right. It's not Vista that is 'optimising' the system for a game. It never was. Vista is providing a report which assists the game installer to optimise the GAME for the system.
Vista manages RAM in such a way that other apps will have minimal impact on gaming performance. Vista's WDM ensures that desktop graphics won't impact on game performance. There isn't, and never was, some specific tool which somehow configures the system differently just because a game is being launched. No communication from Microsoft has ever claimed that such a thing was to be included.
And could we have comments put forward in a more dignified fashion, perhaps?
can we get a ban up in here? it was enough the last time he did this stuff and now he's doin it again.
nigerian_businessman
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2004
- Messages
- 1,535
I think you all need to chill out. Talk about thread derailment.
And no surprise to see bbz_ghost in the fray either.
And no surprise to see bbz_ghost in the fray either.
- Status