Ajit Pai and the FCC Want It to Be Legal for Comcast to Block BitTorrent

[Megalith]

Pai thinks it was a mistake for the FCC to try and stop Comcast from blocking BitTorrent in 2008. He thinks all of the regulatory actions the FCC took after that to give itself the authority to prevent blocking were wrong and wants to go back to the legal framework that allowed Comcast to block BitTorrent.

The 2008 Comcast-BitTorrent Order allowed the Commission to directly enforce federal internet policy when the telcos significantly impeded consumers’ ability to access content and use the applications of their choice. Because the FCC couldn’t stop Comcast from blocking BitTorrent in 2008, it changed the rules so it would have that power. Pai wants to undo that change and give Comcast the power to block internet services like BitTorrent once again.

 

[Bigbacon]

they won't block it, just charge you to be able to use it...like they will with everything else eventually.

 

[SCSI-Terminator]

what does he think he's going to accomplish? Everything's just going to end up being shoved over HTTPS.

 

[Deleted member 245375]

We'll be seeing this or something just like it on a lot of sites soon enough:

 

[Mut1ny]

Because BitTorrent can't be used for legit things. I use it all the time to download shit legally.

Also, can we get an investigation going on this guy or something? Why is he being allowed to do any of this? It's clear there are outside influences in play here.

This is CLEARLY about the ISP's and money and not about the American people or their benefit.

I just don't get it, seems so screwy like I'm in some Bizarro land.

 

[trparky]

Oh Tiberian, that's bullshit and you know it! That's the biggest bunch of FUD I've ever seen and I've seen a lot of FUD. There's no damn way that would happen and you know it, there would be a revolt on the Internet like you wouldn't believe if that really came to pass.

 

[bigdogchris]

Oh Tiberian, that's bullshit and you know it! That's the biggest bunch of FUD I've ever seen and I've seen a lot of FUD. There's no damn way that would happen and you know it, there would be a revolt on the Internet like you wouldn't believe if that really came to pass.

No, it's quite possible.

2005 – North Carolina ISP Madison River Communications blocked VoIP service Vonage.

2005 – Comcast blocked or severely delayed traffic using the BitTorrent file-sharing protocol. (The company even had the guts to deny this for months until evidence was presented by the Associated Press.)

2007 – AT&T censored Pearl Jam because lead singer criticized President Bush.

2007 to 2009 – AT&T forced Apple to block Skype because it didn’t like the competition. At the time, the carrier had exclusive rights to sell the iPhone and even then the net neutrality advocates were pushing the government to protect online consumers, over 5 years before these rules were actually passed.

2009 – Google Voice app faced similar issues from ISPs, including AT&T on iPhone.

2010 – Windstream Communications, a DSL provider, started hijacking search results made using Google toolbar. It consistently redirected users to Windstream’s own search engine and results.

2011 – MetroPCS, one of the top-five wireless carriers at the time, announced plans to block streaming services over its 4G network from everyone except YouTube.

2011 to 2013 – AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon blocked Google Wallet in favor of Isis, a mobile payment system in which all three had shares. Verizon even asked Google to not include its payment app in its Nexus devices.

2012 – AT&T blocked FaceTime; again because the company didn’t like the competition.

2012 – Verizon started blocking people from using tethering apps on their phones that enabled consumers to avoid the company’s $20 tethering fee.

2014 – AT&T announced a new “sponsored data” scheme, offering content creators a way to buy their way around the data caps that AT&T imposes on its subscribers.

2014 – Netflix started paying Verizon and Comcast to “improve streaming service for consumers.”

2014 – T-Mobile was accused of using data caps to manipulate online competition.

https://wccftech.com/net-neutrality-abuses-timeline/

 

[trparky]

Sure, and you know what happened... people rose up, they screamed. And that was a small event. If something like what so many people think will happen actually happened there would be a revolt so damn huge that it would spill out into the real world.

 

[Twisted Kidney]

Net neutrality was far more visionary than most people give it credit for. I truly hope something similar is enacted here before our ISPs get inspired by upcoming American innovation in the arena of pay-per-site internet.

I get that tribalism and social engineering dictate that whatever the other team did must be terrible because they're the other team, but wow. Just. Wow.

Because BitTorrent can't be used for legit things. I use it all the time to download shit legally.

From innumerable Linux distros, to updated Windows ROMs, to a vast, vast, VAST array of open source software. Like you say, bit torrent has a million uses.

Oh Tiberian, that's bullshit and you know it! That's the biggest bunch of FUD I've ever seen and I've seen a lot of FUD. There's no damn way that would happen and you know it, there would be a revolt on the Internet like you wouldn't believe if that really came to pass.

There'd be no rebellion. Americans worship politicians as gods, and the more they say they hate politicians the harder they pray to them. I don't give a fuck what team you vote for, if your team's current messiah tells the average Joe to eat a pile of shit they're doing it for the movement, they doing it for the team. Plus they're gonna swear that pile of shit is chocolate cake.

Sure, and you know what happened... people rose up, they screamed. And that was a small event. If something like what so many people think will happen actually happened there would be a revolt so damn huge that it would spill out into the real world.

There was no rebellion in February of 2015 there was a law passed that changed Net Neutrality, making all that shit illegal.

 

[trparky]

The Internet is much more mainstream than it was back then, regular people use and depend upon it far more so than they did back then. If they try that kind of shit today and the average person suddenly finds that they need to pay more to see their cat videos there's going to be holy hell raised.

 

[Deleted member 93354]

I don't even use bit torrent and I think this is full of horse manure. Bit Torrent has plenty of valid uses.

 

[Riptide_NVN]

For a while I had been in support of removing the rules since I had only read of one instance of abuse from comcast. The whole thing seemed WAY overblown. Having read up more on the subject there appears to be a bit more to it than I'd been aware of.

Having said that, and also having changed my mind, I am skeptical that the most dire predictions are likely to come true. Is removing the rules going to be a good thing for us? On that point I have doubts.

 

[Bigbacon]

The Internet is much more mainstream than it was back then, regular people use and depend upon it far more so than they did back then. If they try that kind of shit today and the average person suddenly finds that they need to pay more to see their cat videos there's going to be holy hell raised.

but it won't matter because who else are you supposed to get your internet from? there is little to no competition so you are screwed. Government isn't going to help as you can plainly see.

 

[Uvaman2]

Nothing will happen, no one will do shit we are too busy lets be honest.. fees will be paid, the end.
People still pay waaaaaay too much money for ad-laden cable no problem.. its just how its been.. and fucked up internet will slowly morph into the same, and then it will be just as it's always been. The bastard at the fcc knows it all too well.
The only choice is for those companies that are now beholden to the isps is to become isps themselves, wireless might be the only way... If they are under ANY illusion the ISPs doesn't have them by the balls , well...

 

[vegeta535]

Because BitTorrent can't be used for legit things. I use it all the time to download shit legally.

Also, can we get an investigation going on this guy or something? Why is he being allowed to do any of this? It's clear there are outside influences in play here.

This is CLEARLY about the ISP's and money and not about the American people or their benefit.

I just don't get it, seems so screwy like I'm in some Bizarro land.

Be real. It is not there to download legal things. 95% of traffic going through torrents is copy righted stuff.

 

[Damar]

The Internet is much more mainstream than it was back then, regular people use and depend upon it far more so than they did back then. If they try that kind of shit today and the average person suddenly finds that they need to pay more to see their cat videos there's going to be holy hell raised.

With the near monopolies those companies have? People will have no choice but to pay up, or go without (and that just wont happen). The current administration (and many former ones) is for the corporations, not for the consumer.

As George Carlin put it so eloquently, "They don't give a fuck about you!".

 

[Master_shake_]

1st they came for bit torrent....

Slippery slope confirmed.

 

[trparky]

but it won't matter because who else are you supposed to get your internet from? there is little to no competition so you are screwed. Government isn't going to help as you can plainly see.

And who needs the government? Everyone wants to run to the government when something like this happens. Oh help me government, please help me! HA! The only thing that the government has done is fuck things up, the less government we have the better. These are the same people who couldn't find their asses with both hands tied behind their backs.

Nothing works quite like having an angry mob outside Comcast's headquarters.

 

[Riptide_NVN]

Most of the critical functions from home (bill paying, email) could be done over wireless. The entertainment aspect needs bandwidth. Bandwidth and for games latency that wireless isn't going to cut it.

A major leap in wireless capability seems like it would be a great thing since the competition in that market seems stronger.

 

[ob1]

I disagree. They will start doing the shady shit to the low volume area's like the country, where it won't hurt them much. They will tailor their shit and keep it creeping into the larger markets, until it is like the comic Tib posted above. Why even give them the option. Just keep it open. And before you think, well I don't torrent, that is just a simple easy to pallet example. It will cross all kinds of lines, IoT, banking, ala carte video services, gaming, etc.

 

[Makaveli@BETA]

Wow this guy sure is leading the race to be public enemy #1

Pretty soon he will need security to leave his house.

 

[Pieter3dnow]

Wow this guy sure is leading the race to be public enemy #1

Pretty soon he will need security to leave his house.

That is trivial, it comes down to voting for the wrong presidential candidate and this was his mandate from the beginning. This person is not the cause, that one is in the White house or golf course ...

The FCC leadership will keep pushing the agenda of screwing as much consumers as they can without prejudice. .

 

[Inu]

Because BitTorrent can't be used for legit things. I use it all the time to download shit legally.

Also, can we get an investigation going on this guy or something? Why is he being allowed to do any of this? It's clear there are outside influences in play here.

This is CLEARLY about the ISP's and money and not about the American people or their benefit.

I just don't get it, seems so screwy like I'm in some Bizarro land.

This happens all day every day. Almost every politician is bought.
The only time something is actually done about it is when their hand is caught so deep in the cookie jar they leave behind fingers.
Essentially almost never.

 

[SecretStash]

Trump could really get a boost in popularity if he just made a cabinet change.

Ajit refuses to believe that there is no free market to begin with.

 

[Bigbacon]

Most of the critical functions from home (bill paying, email) could be done over wireless. The entertainment aspect needs bandwidth. Bandwidth and for games latency that wireless isn't going to cut it.

A major leap in wireless capability seems like it would be a great thing since the competition in that market seems stronger.

but you'll be imposed unrealistic data caps or even if you have "unlimited" they will throttle you after so much.

 

[gusphase]

No, it's quite possible.



https://wccftech.com/net-neutrality-abuses-timeline/

The rest majority of the circumstances that were described in that list involve anti competitive behavior, and we already have laws for that. We don't need NN so much as we need anti trust laws enforced. Google and Facebook prefer NN, because it allows them to continue THEIR shenanigans. Most of you are falling for their propaganda. NN want enshrined in law in the USA and the EU until 2015, and no company ever came out with cable like access plans like people keep bullshitting here.

 

[Makaveli@BETA]

That is trivial, it comes down to voting for the wrong presidential candidate and this was his mandate from the begging. This person is not the cause, that one is in the White house or golf course ...

The FCC leadership will keep pushing the agenda of screwing as much consumers as they can without prejudice. .

I think finding another person like wheeler will be rare besides who is sitting in the presidential seat. There is too much money, lobbying and corruption involved.

 

[aliaskary77]

it seems the current administrations sole purpose is to undo or reverse everything the previous administration did, just because one was made fun of in the correspondents dinner. and by no way do I think the previous administration were angels, but they did do a lot of good.

 

[KarsusTG]

Because BitTorrent can't be used for legit things. I use it all the time to download shit legally.

Also, can we get an investigation going on this guy or something? Why is he being allowed to do any of this? It's clear there are outside influences in play here.

This is CLEARLY about the ISP's and money and not about the American people or their benefit.

I just don't get it, seems so screwy like I'm in some Bizarro land.

Even blizzard and other MMO companies use BitTorrent for client downloads.

 

[RanceJustice]

....sigh. Do you see the problem now guys? Perhaps? Maybe?

Look, this is just one of a myriad of possible, profitable options for ISPs et al if we do not protect Title II Net Neutrality RIGHT NOW! Call your Senators especially but other reps in general; there are things they can do to block the FCC's attempt to repeal Title II provisions.

 

[Stryke1983]

And who needs the government? Everyone wants to run to the government when something like this happens. Oh help me government, please help me! HA! The only thing that the government has done is fuck things up, the less government we have the better. These are the same people who couldn't find their asses with both hands tied behind their backs.

Nothing works quite like having an angry mob outside Comcast's headquarters.

So instead of the government retaining sensible regulation preventing the ISPs from doing this we should give the ISPs more freedom and a second chance to screw us over.

Then I can protest against their shitty practices by...

1. Changing provider? Nope, little to no competition as they deliberately avoid competing in the same areas.

2. Taking them to court? Nope, 99% of us don't have the money or time to dedicate to battling a giant corporation's army of lawyers and lobbyists. Especially when one of those lawyers is already head of the FCC

Now what? Stop using the internet? Just pay up?

Or we just keep the consumer protections in place to avoid all that. Hmmm... Tough decision.

 

[Dekoth-E-]

And who needs the government? Everyone wants to run to the government when something like this happens. Oh help me government, please help me! HA! The only thing that the government has done is fuck things up, the less government we have the better. These are the same people who couldn't find their asses with both hands tied behind their backs.

Nothing works quite like having an angry mob outside Comcast's headquarters.

So what flavor is the Kool-aid?

 

[RanceJustice]

So instead of the government retaining sensible regulation preventing the ISPs from doing this we should give the ISPs more freedom and a second chance to screw us over.

Then I can protest against their shitty practices by...

1. Changing provider? Nope, little to no competition as they deliberately avoid competing in the same areas.

2. Taking them to court? Nope, 99% of us don't have the money or time to dedicate to battling a giant corporation's army of lawyers and lobbyists. Especially when one of those lawyers is already head of the FCC

Now what? Stop using the internet? Just pay up?

Or we just keep the consumer protections in place to avoid all that. Hmmm... Tough decision.

Don't forget how most of these companies and their puppets in government - including Pai himself - support "Mandatory Arbitration Clauses" - which means that by using X service you give up your right to sue or go through the court system as beleaguered and unaffordable as it is, and instead be subject to arbitration which is (for a variety of reasons) tips the scale way, way towards big business. So even those who have the time/money to sue by themselves or get into a class-action suit, are stripped of that right because every ISP will have it in their TOS that if you were their client, you agree to mandatory arbitration!

 

[Riptide_NVN]

There was no right presidential candidate to vote for.

Trump could really get a boost in popularity if he just made a cabinet change.

If you consider hating slightly less than before a boost in popularity I suppose.

but you'll be imposed unrealistic data caps or even if you have "unlimited" they will throttle you after so much.

Time will tell if this comes to pass to the degree alarmists are predicting. I'm not particularly optimistic about the whole thing.

 

[sirmonkey1985]

Sure, and you know what happened... people rose up, they screamed. And that was a small event. If something like what so many people think will happen actually happened there would be a revolt so damn huge that it would spill out into the real world.

you give people way to much credit.. once all the ISP's agree to do the same thing it becomes "normal" and then people stop complaining.. honestly it doesn't matter since i can't even complain since comcast is my only isp provider here so i'm pretty much screwed anyways.. anti-competition, isn't it great? but it's ok, leaving ISP's unchecked is for the betterment of the American people...

 

[Chunder]

I am skeptical that the most dire predictions are likely to come true.

Portugal, and many others like it that got rid of net neutrality or never implemented it, should be able to end your skepticism.

 

[velusip]

what does he think he's going to accomplish? Everything's just going to end up being shoved over HTTPS.

While true, TLS is still not really versatile enough compared to what we could be doing with swarming protocols. And besides, who is to say they won't block or throttle connections that aren't made to their partner ACLs? "Is that a consumer-consumer TLS connection? Fucking throttled, lol!"

Encrypted swarming protocols are immensely useful and prolific beyond merely bittorrent. Popular apps and some groundbreaking tech depend on them. Having to _register_ your protocol with every carrier conglomerate, in a kind of forced partnership, to ensure they don't throttle you is an absolute shitstorm. It allows carriers to nickel and dime anyone who wishes to be on the internet who are not conforming to their narrow minded model of what the internet should be, and effectively control the future of these kinds of technologies -- recursively draining any interest in creative use of DTN or DHT type protocols. While ISPs can monitor their network in any way they wish (and contact customers with concersn), allowing them to discriminate and curb traffic type puts a hamper on technological progression in a growing field.

That's not the core of the problem: the discimination of protocols and deep packet inspection is a component of comprehensive control of a resource. e.g. _monopoly_ level control.

Bear with me on this one: The marketing of data services is grossly oversold compared to what a carrier can provide, and that's intentional. Reinvestment in infrastructure reduces short term profits and places artificial limits which assist in rationalizing overage fees, which accounts for nearly 10% of all carrier revenue in North America (which likely yields a much higher than 10% profit margin). Case in point, bittorrent activity was once a major problem for carriers due to connection count saturation (It wasn't an issue with total throughput, but merely signalling rate limitations). While I believe we're past those dark days of ISP equipment, it's still immensely popular for carriers to use inadequate hardware and fail to reinvest in their own infrastructure because of the legality of introducing an incredibly cheap and profitable revenue stream: overage. So why did I bring this up? Well, carriers are willing to invest in their network for the purpose of monitoring traffic. Again, they would rather invest in robust, limitation-enforcing technologies than making their service better and more attractive. Rather than actually grow their industry -- which would cause percent-based profit margins to naturally ladder into more money -- they would rent-seek and protect what little they have from any potential for competition. That's literally anti-capitalism.

This Ajit guy is clearly in support of rent-seeking tactics -- which is a fundamental enemy of the state and cripples a nations GDP. For me, this Battle for the Web has little to do with the web. It seems to me that there is some serious federal level corruption that _will_ eat away at Americas technological progression and profits in the long term.

 

[tetris42]

Because BitTorrent can't be used for legit things. I use it all the time to download shit legally.

Also, can we get an investigation going on this guy or something? Why is he being allowed to do any of this? It's clear there are outside influences in play here.

This is CLEARLY about the ISP's and money and not about the American people or their benefit.

I just don't get it, seems so screwy like I'm in some Bizarro land.

It's called "regulatory capture". There's no investigation of anyone doing things corrupt as long as big money interests get what they're looking for. If you look at it in terms of the fox guarding the henhouse, then it makes plenty of sense.

Oh Tiberian, that's bullshit and you know it! That's the biggest bunch of FUD I've ever seen and I've seen a lot of FUD. There's no damn way that would happen and you know it, there would be a revolt on the Internet like you wouldn't believe if that really came to pass.

You're very naive if you think this isn't a possibility. I mean once upon a time, data caps didn't exist. Where was the revolt when that happened? Hell, I've seen this in gaming. It's gone from paying money and getting a full game, to being sliced up in DLC to pay more, to literally paying extra to get the ending to the game, to complete removal of private servers, and shutting down central servers after a few years so you can never play it again. There is NO LIMIT to shit companies can get away with, it's just a matter of how fast and how hard. If major ISPs blocked wikipedia tomorrow unless people paid up, yes, people wouldn't stand for it. If they did that in 10-20 years, you'd be surprised.

That is trivial, it comes down to voting for the wrong presidential candidate and this was his mandate from the begging. This person is not the cause, that one is in the White house or golf course ...

If you think Trump is the CAUSE of our current government corruption, you have a lot to learn.

 

[Uvaman2]

It's called "regulatory capture". There's no investigation of anyone doing things corrupt as long as big money interests get what they're looking for. If you look at it in terms of the fox guarding the henhouse, then it makes plenty of sense.

You're very naive if you think this isn't a possibility. I mean once upon a time, data caps didn't exist. Where was the revolt when that happened? Hell, I've seen this in gaming. It's gone from paying money and getting a full game, to being sliced up in DLC to pay more, to literally paying extra to get the ending to the game, to complete removal of private servers, and shutting down central servers after a few years so you can never play it again. There is NO LIMIT to shit companies can get away with, it's just a matter of how fast and how hard. If major ISPs blocked wikipedia tomorrow unless people paid up, yes, people wouldn't stand for it. If they did that in 10-20 years, you'd be surprised.

If you think Trump is the CAUSE of our current government corruption, you have a lot to learn.

Exactly its a slowish process... A website here a fee there, cause you know Netflix accounts for so much of your traffic and most people are like yeah! So much of my traffic, but if I pay 5 bucks more it doesn't count bkah blah blah

 

[SeaFoam]

This guy is a huge cunt.