Air Pollution In China Kills 4,000 People A Day

Megalith

Megalith

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That statistic sounds extreme, but I doubt that anyone who has traveled to the Chinese mainland or its surrounding areas is even remotely surprised. I feel like I have a brand new set of lungs whenever I return to the states from Hong Kong.

“When I was last in Beijing, pollution was at the hazardous level: Every hour of exposure reduced my life expectancy by 20 minutes,” Richard Muller, scientific director of Berkeley Earth and a co-author of the paper, said in an e-mail. “It’s as if every man, woman and child smoked 1.5 cigarettes each hour.”
 
And remember there are people in the US who want to shut down or eliminate EPA regulations so that we can pollute more because it's cheaper.

I'm happy we have clean air.
 
bigdogchris said:
And remember there are people in the US who want to shut down or eliminate EPA regulations so that we can pollute more because it's cheaper.

I'm happy we have clean air.
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Shut down wasteful, uncontrollable, overreaching federal government agency and move it to state agencies where the people have more control over.
 
sleepeeg3 said:
Shut down wasteful, uncontrollable, overreaching federal government agency and move it to state agencies where the people have more control over.
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Right.. and let it be controlled at the state level where in certain states that would mean literally no regulation whatsoever on air pollution (and other forms of pollution). Dude, the EPA's budget is 8 billion dollars. That's a drop in the bucket when you consider our $3.8 trillion overall federal budget. Let's think for a minute here people...
 
sleepeeg3 said:
Shut down wasteful, uncontrollable, overreaching federal government agency and move it to state agencies where the people have more control over.
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It's sad you think this way. Most local governments can't even fix potholes in the road...what in the flying fuck makes your brain think they'll care about taking care of pollution?
 
SeegsElite said:
Right.. and let it be controlled at the state level where in certain states that would mean literally no regulation whatsoever on air pollution (and other forms of pollution). Dude, the EPA's budget is 8 billion dollars. That's a drop in the bucket when you consider our $3.8 trillion overall federal budget. Let's think for a minute here people...
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True. Moving everything to "state agencies" just bloats the state agencies and becomes wasteful, so they hack funding. It also creates the situation where states practically become their own country, as each one differs more and more.

It's costs a ton more to run 50 agencies over one agency. The major problem with the federal agencies is the bloat (massive pensions, redundant positions, old technology).
 
Megalith said:
That statistic sounds extreme, but I doubt that anyone who has traveled to the Chinese mainland or its surrounding areas is even remotely surprised. I feel like I have a brand new set of lungs whenever I return to the states from Hong Kong.

“When I was last in Beijing, pollution was at the hazardous level: Every hour of exposure reduced my life expectancy by 20 minutes,” Richard Muller, scientific director of Berkeley Earth and a co-author of the paper, said in an e-mail. “It’s as if every man, woman and child smoked 1.5 cigarettes each hour.”
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Hong Kong?
You should try ShenZhen and forget about getting that Marlboro Red 2x carton 20pack combo.
 
sleepeeg3 said:
Shut down wasteful, uncontrollable, overreaching federal government agency and move it to state agencies where the people have more control over.
Click to expand...

So consolidation, reduced redundancy, standardization of regulation, streamlining, and economies of scale work great for every private enterprise...But if the government tries to implement the same principles to make things more efficient for both enforcement and compliance it's a bad thing?

Do you even realize how illogical you sound?
 
sleepeeg3 said:
Shut down wasteful, uncontrollable, overreaching federal government agency and move it to state agencies where the people have more control over.
Click to expand...

Actually states have more control over certain environmental concerns than many realize. States are typically responsible for the handling and storage of most hazardous materials and waste though nuclear waste in an exception I believe. The West Fertilizer Company's storage facility disaster in Texas and the coal ash leak from a Duke Energy storage facility are incidents that are within state authority.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the people of Tianjin, it's almost beyond belief to me. But had that incident happened in the US, it more than likely would have be the state that had the ultimate say in what and how things were being stored in that particular facility. More than likely many right wingers would be complaining about the EPA and its incompetence for something it doesn't have authority and of course with a disaster of this magnitude the Federal government would have to intervene.

As for the EPA, it's regulatory power is generally over air and water and since these things don't respect state boundaries by nature the Commerce Clause is in effect.
 
Kueller said:
So consolidation, reduced redundancy, standardization of regulation, streamlining, and economies of scale work great for every private enterprise...But if the government tries to implement the same principles to make things more efficient for both enforcement and compliance it's a bad thing?

Do you even realize how illogical you sound?
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It would seem that 50 different sets of laws governing saw how much CO is acceptable in the air doesn't make a great deal of sense. Though many local governments go further than the EPA on air and water quality standards.
 
sleepeeg3 said:
Shut down wasteful, uncontrollable, overreaching federal government agency and move it to state agencies where the people have more control over.
Click to expand...
Yeah that's a great idea since some states barely have any resources at all to combat pollution and double great idea since pollution totally respects state lines.
 
The whole "state control" argument is seriously overstated. A benefit to some federal control is consistency across states. I don't want air pollution from one state rolling into another, which it would.

For many people the rhetoric itself is more sexy than what you're actually asking for.
 
Clean air and water are the two most essential materials for the existence of all humans and most other life on this planet. To vigorously defend them is no vice.
 
sleepeeg3 said:
Shut down wasteful, uncontrollable, overreaching federal government agency and move it to state agencies where the people have more control over.
Click to expand...

Yup because I totally want the people to have more control over whether or not something gets done. I mean it's not like local people have ever fought against the EPA for silly reasons like property devaluation if it's known they live near a polluted mess... nah... never.
 
sleepeeg3 said:
Shut down wasteful, uncontrollable, overreaching federal government agency and move it to state agencies where the people have more control over.
Click to expand...

Yes..of course, leaving environmental control in the hands of greedy scumbag corporations. Yes. What was I thinking...:rolleyes:
 
bigdogchris said:
And remember there are people in the US who want to shut down or eliminate EPA regulations so that we can pollute more because it's cheaper.

I'm happy we have clean air.
Click to expand...

And people want add a cost to doing anything here that makes them non-competitive so what they do goes to China where there is comparatively no control what so ever.

You feel good about yourself for a net loss in pollution world wide and those people that lose their jobs here and those who get the pollution in China can suck it, I guess.
 
jpm100 said:
And people want add a cost to doing anything here that makes them non-competitive so what they do goes to China where there is comparatively no control what so ever.

You feel good about yourself for a net loss in pollution world wide and those people that lose their jobs here and those who get the pollution in China can suck it, I guess.
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You can't breathe the air or drink the water but we've got jobs!
 
heatlesssun said:
Clean air and water are the two most essential materials for the existence of all humans and most other life on this planet. To vigorously defend them is no vice.
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Instead of the arguments regarding right-wing and left-wing, this is the message we should all heed. State, Federal, or Private, all should be working toward clean air and clean water. We can protect our natural resources and still have jobs...it's not a "one or the other" proposition...we just have to approach the problem with a bit more finesse. ;)
 
Konig-Wolf said:
Instead of the arguments regarding right-wing and left-wing, this is the message we should all heed. State, Federal, or Private, all should be working toward clean air and clean water. We can protect our natural resources and still have jobs...it's not a "one or the other" proposition...we just have to approach the problem with a bit more finesse. ;)
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I couldn't agree more. I simply believe in the Law of Threes. Three minutes without air, three days without water and three weeks without food are the limits of average human endurance. No right in the Constitution is of greater impact to the survival of a human being than the frailty of our bodies. Because of this I believe that breathable, potable water and nutritious food are the human rights. But of course beyond basic human survival we need and want to be productive. But being productive to the detriment of immediate needs for survival is counter productive. I guess that's what many here would call a tree hugger.
 
jpm100 said:
And people want add a cost to doing anything here that makes them non-competitive so what they do goes to China where there is comparatively no control what so ever.

You feel good about yourself for a net loss in pollution world wide and those people that lose their jobs here and those who get the pollution in China can suck it, I guess.
Click to expand...

How about instead of the United States engaging in a race to the bottom with other nations to see who can pollute their countries the most, who can pay their workers the least, who can allow the most rampant corruption, who can allow the most unethical practices, who can let the most people go without living essentials, and who can let the most people suffer, we instead start building self-sufficient infrastructure again while hitting those countries with trade tariffs until it is FAIR trade instead of FREE-for-all-chaos trade?
 
What's the big deal? Doesn't China also have a birthrate problem?

It doesn't seem like that many people considering they have over 1/5 of the global population in a single country.

Sorry for sounding cynical, but this is the result of our own undoing as the human race.
 
Before we are so proud of our clean air, this is mostly because our manufacturer base is actually in china.
 
the idea of individual states being in charge of air is ridiculous as the pollution will effect all states.
 
Uvaman said:
Before we are so proud of our clean air, this is mostly because our manufacturer base is actually in china.
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What are you talking about, it's not like LA used to be so polluted you needed a mask or our rivers caught on fire or anything.
 
Uvaman said:
Before we are so proud of our clean air, this is mostly because our manufacturer base is actually in china.
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They could kick the corporations out or maybe put some actual rules in place or pay workers more then 15 cents a month but they wouldn't do that because their economy would end up in the shitter...I mean we tried that and it didn't work out...I guess it worked out but all the shit was moved to china
 
I read that if they don't wear face masks in some cities, just walking around in public gives them the same pollution as if they smoked two packs of cigarettes a day.
 
The fact that the article only focused on "energy" shows the author's lack of knowledge or research into the Chinese infrastructure. It's not coal burning "energy" that's the problem - it's coal burning "heating." China doesn't use electric thermostat systems like we do in the West. Their heating is done by having a giant boiler on the block heat up and circulate water through the floors of every single building there (with the exception of most of the foreigner-approved hotels, which use a more western style of heating for western convenience). This is why the pollution is worse for China in the winter months between November 1 and April 30.

During my two years living in the mainland, the water pipe heated floors where nice - never having cold flooring in the depths of winter - but very wasteful. It was common during the warmer winter days to have all the windows open as the apartment became unbearably hot. Although, there were the days where they didn't put as much coal on the furnace as they should, and you walk around the apartment bundled up, and then stop at that one tile that gets just a bit warmer than all the others.
 
We haven't yet gotten to the point where we need gas masks. Maybe we should bottle some of our air here and send it to China.
 
I am going to guess that this number will be significantly inflated once the cynaide that was being produced in Tianjin is exposed to water...
 
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