Air or Water? $50-$75 range

[obiwansotti]

Going to do a new build soon, either skylake or Haswell-E (anybody know about the broadwell-e launch?).

I used a scythe mugen on my i7-920 build and have loved it's performance and acoustic profile, the new v4 is $53/prime on amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/Scythe-Mugen-Cooler-Socket-SCMG-4000/dp/B00G9YBHEY

In one of the latest cooler reviews it looks like the Scythe 4 still performs in the general ballpark of say a corsair H90.
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2015...l_in_one_aio_cpu_cooler_review/3#.VbuceW5VhBd

It's been a long time since I shopped coolers and these closed loops systems seem like they might be worth making the jump.

Obviously if I was going to drop >$100 it would be an easy choice.

 

[dragonstongue]

Liquid does have its benefit of generally being a bit more compact for the performance given and able to tolerate a slightly higher load for longer BUT they do generally take longer to cool back down once at that extended heat even if it take a bit longer to get there. I use air it will work for years upon years to come with very little chance of failure to each their own, for that price range you are looking at a slew of heatsinks.

I am quite partial for Rajintek heatsinks, they seem quite good performance per dollar spent and great build quality, Bequiet alright as well though do tend to be on the slight more expensive end of the spectrum.

This is the thing, modern Intel processors have tons of heat in such a small area it can be difficult to wick away that the old liquid is better or a direct touch is better etc simply does not apply quite as much, some sinks will work VERY well while others that work very well on older chips almost fall flat on their face trying to keep up with the cooling.

They need a "modern" heatsink that has a vapor chamber built into the heatpad that goes against the chip to spread the heat to the heatpipes more effectively as many years ago it was generally easy enough to see the difference between an excellent heatsink and a so so one no matter the actual cost.

Good starting point is Hyper 212 EVO, as anything better then it will be a great heatsink cooling wise.

 

[Tsumi]

Air will give you better bang for the buck when it comes to cooling performance. AIOs will give you better convenience. You decide which is worth more to you.

 

[obiwansotti]

Air will give you better bang for the buck when it comes to cooling performance. AIOs will give you better convenience. You decide which is worth more to you.

How is an AIO more convenient than air?

 

[Tsumi]

The waterblock is easier to mount to the motherboard. It does not block your RAM slots. That's how it's more convenient.

 

[Quix]

How is an AIO more convenient than air?

If you don't have a lot of space around your CPU socket. I'd buy air if you're most interested in quiet and AIO if you're more interested in cooling temperatures.

I recently bought a be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 3, which is a bit above your price range and I've been very happy moving from water to air for the reduced noise. Performance is very good too, but it's the size of the moon. Seriously, these big air coolers are insanely huge.

In your price range the Phanteks PH-TC12DX (~$48) and CryOrig H7 (~$35) are both pretty good choices. The CryOrig is a particularly good value, it outperforms the popular Coolermaster 212 EVO at a similar price.

 

[obiwansotti]

The waterblock is easier to mount to the motherboard. It does not block your RAM slots. That's how it's more convenient.

I can see the ram slot thing, but I've been mounting big ass coolers for almost 20 years. I'm not sure that's a factor for ME.

I totally understand that it's all subjective.

I'm just trying to pencil this all out in my mind before I bite the bullet and I'm using you guys as a sounding board, so I appreciate your feedback.

 

[Tsumi]

Going with an AIO/LC is a better choice IF: you don't want to block two memory banks. And if you want your CPU to be cool down faster than air.

Temperatures at idle is always great, because the CPU gets down to 800mhz, no problem, even the stock cooler is fine, problem is when they're overclocked and jump to 4.5ghz and above that, temperatures get pretty high and liquid cooling is able to keep your CPU cooler than air.
The Noctua is the best air cooling, but at the same price as an AIO/LC, I rather get the AIO, because don't want my memory banks to be blocked or run the risk of not being able to use my memory, because of their tall heat-sinks.

From everything that I read so far about AIO/LC, only one article made sense about it, the rest it just shows: Here 75c vs 74c, 32c vs 31c and so on, but AIO/LC can do more than just that, if you think about it, the CPU receiving constantly chilled water, it's better than a fan to wait and cool down the pipes, thus the CPU would cool down faster.
Imagine you cooking eggs on a frying pan, after you're done, putting the frying pan in front of a fan vs dump it in the sink full of water, which one would cool down faster? That's what came down to my mind when I read the article.

I'm getting a Corsair H110i GTX next week, was going to get that new Noctua 15s, but can't buy it yet in the U.S. and two, that thing is massive and I was afraid my memory wouldn't work with it if I had installed it. My Enermax ETS T40 is good, but not as good as I want it to be.

So, with that said, from my experience: If you don't want to spend more money than you have to? a good HSF would work just fine and only able to use two memory slots.
But if you want that extra push with better cooling capabilities? Then an AIO/LC is the way to go. And most people with 4.5ghz and above, I see they have an AIO kit.

For a future build? Wait and see, Skylake will use a 14nm tech, maybe you won't have to get an AIO and achieve the same speeds and temps that a 22nm and AIO can.

You have absolutely no understanding on how a heatpipe cooler works. Don't misinform others.

Air will cool down faster than water. Water will heat up slower. Why? The high specific heat of water is the reason. It takes a lot of energy to heat it a degree, so it also needs to release a lot of energy to go down a degree.

Heatpipes work on the principle of evaporation and condensation. The liquid in the heatpipe boils and turns to vapor, carrying with it a lot of heat. It moves along the heatpipe and condenses on the wall, transferring the heat to the pipe walls. This process is much more rapid than the heating and cooling of water.

Your comparison is flat out wrong. The proper comparison would be this:
You have two sealed containers. One is a container of air at 60 degrees, the other is a container of water at 60 degrees. Put fans blowing at the containers. Which will cool down faster? Air will, because of its much lower specific heat. Conversely, put the containers over an open flame. Which will heat up faster, air or water?

Dollar per dollar, air has higher performance than AIOs. For a given cooling performance, AIOs are typically $10-20 more expensive than air.

 

[convexion]

Water is great if silence or nearly so is your goal, if that's not a concern then air is fine.

 

[Tsumi]

I've read ignorance before but you took it to a whole new level. UMAD BRO? LOL.

Water boils when it reaches its boiling point of 100ºC (212ºF).....sure the liquid in the heat pipes get that high and. LOL.

Enough with your bickering.

Turning to "vapor". I'll give you this though, you made me laugh, you're not a comedian but close enough. You should start a quest, telling everybody not to get AIO for cooling, because of the vapor and the heat and the container, etc., etc., etc....

Go tell Corsair and the rest they're wrong too: http://www.corsair.com/en-us/blog/2015/april/liquid-cooling-vs-air-cooling-which-performs-better

BTW, base on your own "analogy", how long does it take for the vapor to cool down? While a constant stream of chill water cools down the CPU? Nuff with your bickering I said.

Really? You would use Corsair marketing to prove your point? Your level of epic failness continues to reach new heights. You know what's something Corsair doesn't tell you? Their fans at 100% spin at 2000 RPM for the 140mm, and 2700 RPM for the 120mm. Competitor 1 (the 1500 RPM NH-D15) at 100% is at 24.4 and 50.5 degrees. The H100i at 40% is probably around 1080 RPM, and is doing 24.2 and 53.5 degrees. Air and AIOs are much closer in performance than you think they are.

Hey hey guess what... there are other liquids that can be used. Some of which have boiling temperatures at room temperature, and others that have boiling temperatures at -50 C. Not to mention you can change boiling temperatures simply by changing the pressure. Your ignorance is mindboggling.

Try reading the Wikipedia article on heat pipes. You might learn a thing or two.

The CPU does not have a stream of "chilled water" unless you're running an open loop system. Your understanding of the physics behind coolers is fundamentally flawed beyond belief.

 

[obiwansotti]

Really? You would use Corsair marketing to prove your point? Your level of epic failness continues to reach new heights. You know what's something Corsair doesn't tell you? Their fans at 100% spin at 2000 RPM for the 140mm, and 2700 RPM for the 120mm. Competitor 1 (the 1500 RPM NH-D15) at 100% is at 24.4 and 50.5 degrees. The H100i at 40% is probably around 1080 RPM, and is doing 24.2 and 53.5 degrees. Air and AIOs are much closer in performance than you think they are.

Hey hey guess what... there are other liquids that can be used. Some of which have boiling temperatures at room temperature, and others that have boiling temperatures at -50 C. Not to mention you can change boiling temperatures simply by changing the pressure. Your ignorance is mindboggling.

Try reading the Wikipedia article on heat pipes. You might learn a thing or two.

The CPU does not have a stream of "chilled water" unless you're running an open loop system. Your understanding of the physics behind coolers is fundamentally flawed beyond belief.

Yeah let's not worry too much about the particulars, I'm not a newb.

metal's are better conductors and have lower specific heat, meaning they are easier to heat up AND cool off, since all cooling is done via temperature differentials the ability to transfer less energy into more heat means you can create greater differentials to transfer the energy away from the CPU.

Cooling isn't about temprature it's about energy dissapation.

The return loop from system AIO system were you've got 130w of energy coming from the CPU is still going to be >50c so it won't be chilly return.

I've seen the benchmarks mediocre AIO systems <$100 are typically only 2-3 degrees cooler under load. But you've added a significant failure point ot the system (at least from my crotchety old point of view). Going up in price to the $120+ AIO, then you start to see real 5-10 degree differentials over air coolers.

So my question wasn't about the background of the techs as much as it was about the value of the current coolers on the market.

A don't buy this one, this one is the one to get, ect....

Also those Noctua's are the best, but a really poor value. You get 98% of their perfomance for 1/2 the price. I think you're absolutely right if you're considering one of those you're better off spending another $10-20 and getting an AIO.

 

[Tsumi]

Once again, you have to be careful with those reviews. Most reviews use the stock fans. On air coolers, the fans typically max out around 1500 RPM. On AIOs, the fans typically max out at around 2500 RPM. That is a huge difference in terms of cooling potential and noise. So when you look at the differences in temperature, you have to make sure the review includes noise as part of its review, and look at the difference in noise. If noise is the same, you can definitively say one is better than the other. If one is quieter and cooler, then you can say it's much better. But when it is cooler but louder, it becomes a muddle.

Noctua fans are generally much more expensive than other fans. Keep that in mind when comparing coolers as well.

 

[obiwansotti]

Once again, you have to be careful with those reviews. Most reviews use the stock fans. On air coolers, the fans typically max out around 1500 RPM. On AIOs, the fans typically max out at around 2500 RPM. That is a huge difference in terms of cooling potential and noise. So when you look at the differences in temperature, you have to make sure the review includes noise as part of its review, and look at the difference in noise. If noise is the same, you can definitively say one is better than the other. If one is quieter and cooler, then you can say it's much better. But when it is cooler but louder, it becomes a muddle.

Noctua fans are generally much more expensive than other fans. Keep that in mind when comparing coolers as well.

Good point as someone that once ran a 5000rpm fan on my athlon that sounded like a vaccum cleaner, I've learned to appreciate a quiet PC.

 

[doyll]

Going to do a new build soon, either skylake or Haswell-E (anybody know about the broadwell-e launch?).

I used a scythe mugen on my i7-920 build and have loved it's performance and acoustic profile, the new v4 is $53/prime on amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/Scythe-Mugen-Cooler-Socket-SCMG-4000/dp/B00G9YBHEY

In one of the latest cooler reviews it looks like the Scythe 4 still performs in the general ballpark of say a corsair H90.
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2015...l_in_one_aio_cpu_cooler_review/3#.VbuceW5VhBd

It's been a long time since I shopped coolers and these closed loops systems seem like they might be worth making the jump.

Obviously if I was going to drop >$100 it would be an easy choice.

Sure is a lot of miss-information and pure fantasy in this thread. It's amazing how much tripe people can preach when they try to sound like they know things they don't.

Air coolers are better, cheaper, last longer and quieter than CLC. There are a few AIOs that are as good or slightly better than air. Swiftech H220-X and H240-X are very good.

Heatpipes to in fact function on the boiling / vaporizing of water at the heat source (CPU). By vaporizing the liquid the expansion pushes the vapor away from the heat source. As it move it cools by contact with the side of the heatpipes, which have a wick on them that draws the liquid back to the heat source. Also when they vapor condenses it contracts and pulls more vapor away from heat source. Fins on the pipes radiate the heat away from the pipes and air absorbs the heat as it passes through the fins.

Also water boils at 100c at sea level. Lower the pressure and it boils at a lower temperature. If the pressure is lowered enough water will boil at room temperature.

Noctua are good coolers and some of the best, but they are not "best best". There are several others just as good and some are even lower priced.

One of the best coolers right now is the TRUE Spirit 140 rev.A on Amazon.com for $49.90.

 

[dragonstongue]

If you don't have a lot of space around your CPU socket. I'd buy air if you're most interested in quiet and AIO if you're more interested in cooling temperatures.

I recently bought a be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 3, which is a bit above your price range and I've been very happy moving from water to air for the reduced noise. Performance is very good too, but it's the size of the moon. Seriously, these big air coolers are insanely huge.

In your price range the Phanteks PH-TC12DX (~$48) and CryOrig H7 (~$35) are both pretty good choices. The CryOrig is a particularly good value, it outperforms the popular Coolermaster 212 EVO at a similar price.

Cryorg, forgot to mention them, Rajintek, Cryorg, Bequiet, Phanteks and some Thermaltake, anyways tons to choose from....As far as AIO not blocking but air will, sure, if you decide to go with bloody monsters, there are many awesome aircoolers that really are not that huge, costly, block space or create more noise then AIO, really depends on research, so to tell people this, truly is misinformation (was referencing that one lad)

While noctua are quite good, for sound levels and general performance, they are also generally quite expensive compared to other widely available ones, what they have going for them is general noise levels as well as their mounting hardware, but again, there are others that directly compete if not beat for less $ then them as well.

The hyper 212 EVO was a "good" baseline starting level, that's all, there are quite a few out there now AS GOOD if not SUPERIOR mounting and less costly for better performance, 212 used to be the budget "king" hell I got mine with 2 stock fans for under $40 ~3 years ago or something like that, and while it wont win awards, it is nice cause one can slide the fans up or down a bit so you wont block any ram.

Far as I recall unless was old ddr1-2 there is 0 need for memory makes to use them godawful tall ramsinks anyways besides looks.

 

[dragonstongue]

AIO generally NEED that RPM to generate sufficient pressure to force air through the heatsink, most air cooled, do not. Unless you are trying to get a solid constant overclock, and such many of the good aircoolers perform within 1-5c at 95% of the clocks folks run anyways.

User research, the chassis one is using it in, fans being used of course this all matters, there is not "budget" AIO that is worth buying when for the same if not lower price one can get a very solid performing aircooler, now on the top end it kind of makes sense cause the top end aircoolers are generally MASSIVE and you have to be choosy on components being used and such to ensure it will fit, and these days, it is quite rare one needs the best of the best aircoolers or AIO to get solid temperatures overclocked or not due to the huge array and design of more modern heatsinks, years ago this did not seem to be the case where the "best" were a great deal better performing.

Heatpipes depends on the design and the fluid being used (directionality sometimes and as mentioned if it is a fully sealed lower pressure with enough working fluid for the wick) this is part of the reason why modern heatsinks are all within spitting distance of each other, is competition not AWESOME to have ^.^

 

[atp1916]

OP:
Noctura NH-D14 for $75.
Phanteks PH-TC15PE_xx for $75
Thermalright TRUE Spirit 140 Rev. A for $49.99 Thanks Doyll!

Zero AIOs currently out can match that $$$ per watt cooling performance.

Edit: The post below this one is a winner

 

[doyll]

Now we are getting accurate info.
Reason I suggest TRUE Spirit 140 rev.A ($49.90) rather than NH-D14 ($76.19) is they have near identical performance and is $26.29 lower priced.
http://www.amazon.com/Thermalright-...7&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=ture+spirit+140+rev+a

Here is data showing NH-D15 and NH-D14

TRUE Spirit 140 Power is a little better if more airflow is used, but that increases noise and it is also 171mm tall compared to TRUE Spirit 140 rev. A being 165mm tall.

 

[zaniix]

I have been using Noctua air coolers for many years. The build quality is amazing, the fans are the best anywhere and their services is excellent. They have specific coolers designed to not block your RAM if it is a concern and if the 14 and 15 mm fan models are too tall you can always use there 12s which is still a very good cooler.

The cooling is unmatched at the price point. You get what you pay for.

Air coolers will never leak, they do not have pumps that fail or begin to get noisy and they do not have coolant that evaporates over time. If a AIO pump fails your CPU temps will go through the roof, but if an Air cooler fan fails you still have some protection.

Dollar for dollar my experience has been better with air and it makes me feel more confidant about my system. I like water cooling, its fun and I have had friends with some amazing custom rigs, but I am not willing to spend the money and AIOs just seem inconsistent in quality.


Best of luck

 

[KickAssCop]

Been on AIO for past 5+ years. Can't go back. Get an H80 or something.

 

[Impulse]

OP:
Noctura NH-D14 for $75.
Phanteks PH-TC15PE_xx for $75
Thermalright TRUE Spirit 140 Rev. A for $49.99 Thanks Doyll!

Zero AIOs currently out can match that $$$ per watt cooling performance.

Edit: The post below this one is a winner

I went with the Phanteks recently, Newegg had a $10 rebate on it and the chance to color match it with the rest of my build suckered me in (oddly the blue one I bought jumped up in price later quite a bit).

I actually hadn't looked at coolers in forever and was just gonna get a TRUE Spirit 140 since I'd been happy with my $40 Cogage TRUE Spirit on my Sandy build build (it's roughly equivalent to the smaller TRUE Spirit 120), but the small price difference ($50 vs $65) and Anandtech's recent HSF review pushed me towards the Phanteks.

I cross referenced a few other reviews that had it close to the Noctua NDH15, and looked at how the Noctua did in HardOCP's AIO reviews... Ultimately I would've had to spend 2x as much to be happy with an AIO ($120), more than likely the tough to find Swiftech units (which are more like custom loop kits than prototypical AIOs).

The smaller AIO all seem far noisier than a TotL HSF, if i was going with a hotter running HEDT build I might opt for water tho. It's also never made much sense to me to water cool a CPU but leave two hotter running GPUs on air, but a full loop starts adding up quickly.

That Phanteks cooler is pretty darn good about memory compatibility, doyll's posts on another forum were instrumental in figuring that out. G.Skill Ripjaw stuff will fit but you'll have to shift fans a little (only a potential issue on thinner cases).

Corsair Vengeance LPX fits no problem even with all DIMMs full, so I went out of my way to get that for my Skylake build. Phanteks rep for good service in the US and for providing different bolt thru kits in case of socket changes also influenced my decision.

FWIW I emailed them thinking I was missing a cable and they emailed me back within 24 hours. Turns out I wasn't paying attention and the splitter is now also the PWM hookup. Just need a darn 6700K now!

 

[doyll]

PH-TC14PE is a few degrees better than TRUE Spirit 140 rev.A. I use both .. as well as R1 Ultimate and the new Silver Arrow ITX.

 

[InvisiBill]

Been on AIO for past 5+ years. Can't go back. Get an H80 or something.

This pretty much sums it up for me. My ECO A.L.C.'s pump finally died after 4.5 years of 24x7 use. Due to the layout of the rad, mobo, and case, I was forced to mount it a certain way. That resulted in the intake hose not being on the bottom, causing the pump to occasionally suck air (which I didn't really think about at the time). These are "full" from the factory, but they're not 100% air-free, so there was occasionally a gurgle when it managed to suck in a bit of air instead of water. I'm sure that didn't do the pump any favors.

I bought an H60 for $60 to replace it. I've since upgraded to a Xeon X5680 (OCed to 4GHz + Turbo), and it keeps the max temp under full load to around 70°C with the PH-F120XP at only 1350RPM (simple temp-control by the BIOS). The included Corsair fan might have been a bit louder and pushed a bit more air - I bought a set of Phanteks to fill my case so they'd all match.

Here are the settings I used, and a shot of the temps when shutting it off, to give you an idea how quickly it cools back down.

It's silent and keeps my CPU plenty cool in normal usage. I like that it moves the bulk of the cooler's mass to the case, rather than hanging off the mobo. I'm sure I could get lower temps with other setups (or even just by playing with the fan choice/settings), but I'm very happy with this in terms of temps, noise, and cost. The only maintenance is occasionally blowing dust out of the radiator, just as with all the other fans in my system.

I slapped a Tt AIO on my GPU too.

 

[doyll]

I hear you, but my air coolers are way older than your dead AIO and still going strong. Got my Cogage Arrow in November or 2009. I did replace the fans a few years back, but not because they died, because I wanted a different color and PWM. I'm also still using my Ultra 120A since March of 2007 .. again I changed the fan and got a new mount. That is 5 years 9 months on the Arrow and 8 years 5 months on the Ultra 120 .. and still working as good as they did when brand new.

 

[Tsumi]

None of us have said that AIOs are useless. They have their place. However, their place is not bang/buck cooling nor superior cooling performance as compared to air.

 

[doyll]

Well, let's see. 1-They are superior to cooling performance. 2-For the $$$ you pay and better than air....definitely quiet the bang.

You're one of those people that go to car forums and tell everyone buying a BMW is not better than buying Hyundai.
Just like when recommending "buget" ram over quality Corsair modules.
Or saying: Don't buy high-speed ram because it may not run at the rated speed. None sense. Stop the bickering already.

I have had air and liquid. Will never go back to air. And $100 for a Noctua? Sure, I want a cooler 1/4 the size of my motherboard to almost block all 4 memory slots.

You, sir, have lost your grasp of reality.
Your first three statements are totally false .. AIO (CLC) are not superior, are not better $$$, or as quiet as air coolers. BMW to Hyundai comparison is like NH-D14 to Hyper 2 .. or AIO to CLC. Comparing a Maserati to a Hyundai or Mack truck is more like it.

"Quality" and "Corsair" ?? The biggest thing Corsair has going for itself is their marketing and advertising. Corsair is a marketing name selling products made mostly by other companies.

The only good AIOs I know of are Swiftech H140-X, H220-X and even more so the H240-X .. and they are not CLC.

All CLCs are AIOs, but not only a few AIOs are not CLCs.

You can use liquid. That's your choice. But top tier air cooler are not $100.00. They are $50-75.00. But the better CLCs are $80-150.00 .. and AIOs are the highest priced.

Air is more reliable and last longer .. only thing to fail is the fan, and replacement is $10-20.00

CLC pumps start wearing out as soon as they start running .. and the longer they run the less coolant they move. When the pump does fail, replacement is $80-150.00

AIO are better than CLC for many reasons.

• We can add coolant to AIO, but not to CLC. We can even change coolant.
• We cna add and/or replace components in AIO, but not CLC
• AIO are built with much better quality radiators, pumps, hoses, etc.

Not trying to change your mind. Your mind is made up and you don't want to be bothered wiht the facts.

 

[Tsumi]

You, sir, have lost your grasp of reality.
Your first three statements are totally false .. AIO (CLC) are not superior, are not better $$$, or as quiet as air coolers. BMW to Hyundai comparison is like NH-D14 to Hyper 2 .. or AIO to CLC. Comparing a Maserati to a Hyundai or Mack truck is more like it.

"Quality" and "Corsair" ?? The biggest thing Corsair has going for itself is their marketing and advertising. Corsair is a marketing name selling products made mostly by other companies.

The only good AIOs I know of are Swiftech H140-X, H220-X and even more so the H240-X .. and they are not CLC.

All CLCs are AIOs, but not only a few AIOs are not CLCs.

You can use liquid. That's your choice. But top tier air cooler are not $100.00. They are $50-75.00. But the better CLCs are $80-150.00 .. and AIOs are the highest priced.

Air is more reliable and last longer .. only thing to fail is the fan, and replacement is $10-20.00

CLC pumps start wearing out as soon as they start running .. and the longer they run the less coolant they move. When the pump does fail, replacement is $80-150.00

AIO are better than CLC for many reasons.

• We can add coolant to AIO, but not to CLC. We can even change coolant.
• We cna add and/or replace components in AIO, but not CLC
• AIO are built with much better quality radiators, pumps, hoses, etc.

Not trying to change your mind. Your mind is made up and you don't want to be bothered wiht the facts.

You put it way nicer than I would have put it.

 

[Wag]

I'm in the same situation. My Ivy Bridge mobo has bit the big one and it's MA tax free weekend this Sat/Sun so I'm going to pick up a 5820k @ Microcenter for $299. (Thinking of picking up a refurbed MSI X99A Plus for $179)

http://us.hardware.info/reviews/5629/5/39-cpu-coolers-review-what-is-the-best-choice-graphs-cooling-socketn2011

How accurate is that graph? Going by that the SilverStone Argon AR01 is a tremendous deal @ Newegg for $35. I'd like to not deal with water cooling and be able to overclock a little bit. Maybe make it up to 4.2-4.4GHz.

 

[darkunitzero]

I've read ignorance before but you took it to a whole new level. UMAD BRO? LOL.

Water boils when it reaches its boiling point of 100ºC (212ºF).....sure the liquid in the heat pipes get that high and. LOL.

Enough with your bickering.

Turning to "vapor". I'll give you this though, you made me laugh, you're not a comedian but close enough. You should start a quest, telling everybody not to get AIO for cooling, because of the vapor and the heat and the container, etc., etc., etc....

Go tell Corsair and the rest they're wrong too: http://www.corsair.com/en-us/blog/2015/april/liquid-cooling-vs-air-cooling-which-performs-better

BTW, base on your own "analogy", how long does it take for the vapor to cool down? While a constant stream of chill water cools down the CPU? Nuff with your bickering I said. Thanks for proving the article's point as well. Or are they wrong too? hehehe..

Not sure if you're trolling but I'll leave these here...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pipe
http://odm.coolermaster.com/manufacture.php?page_id=8
http://www.aavid.com/product-group/heatpipe/operate

edit: Read the rest of the thread and apparently you're not trolling...

 

[Impulse]

You, sir, have lost your grasp of reality.
Your first three statements are totally false .. AIO (CLC) are not superior, are not better $$$, or as quiet as air coolers. BMW to Hyundai comparison is like NH-D14 to Hyper 2 .. or AIO to CLC. Comparing a Maserati to a Hyundai or Mack truck is more like it.

"Quality" and "Corsair" ?? The biggest thing Corsair has going for itself is their marketing and advertising. Corsair is a marketing name selling products made mostly by other companies.

The only good AIOs I know of are Swiftech H140-X, H220-X and even more so the H240-X .. and they are not CLC.

All CLCs are AIOs, but not only a few AIOs are not CLCs.

You can use liquid. That's your choice. But top tier air cooler are not $100.00. They are $50-75.00. But the better CLCs are $80-150.00 .. and AIOs are the highest priced.

Air is more reliable and last longer .. only thing to fail is the fan, and replacement is $10-20.00

CLC pumps start wearing out as soon as they start running .. and the longer they run the less coolant they move. When the pump does fail, replacement is $80-150.00

AIO are better than CLC for many reasons.

• We can add coolant to AIO, but not to CLC. We can even change coolant.
• We cna add and/or replace components in AIO, but not CLC
• AIO are built with much better quality radiators, pumps, hoses, etc.

Not trying to change your mind. Your mind is made up and you don't want to be bothered wiht the facts.

Agreed 100%. Noctuas are usually overpriced but there's comparable stuff (just as massive but just as good) often on sale for $65-75, no CLC can match their performance AND sound levels for that kinda money... Which is mostly the reason I stick with air, bang for the buck and low noise.

If I was trying to cool down an octo core/HEDT I might go water, but I'd go straight to one of those Swiftech kits and probably loop in the GPUs at some point. Hell, I've even thought about going with water for the GPUs alone and leaving the CPU on air...

A couple of the top end Corsair CLC are decent, and will outperform top end air coolers while being more quiet (which is the key, smaller ones can do it but at higher noise levels), but for nearly twice the price, and you need space in a case for a long rad etc. Not very different from accommodating a big air cooler.

RAM compatibility is a bit of a red herring too. Dunno why that keeps coming up... Noctua, Phanteks, and others have coolers that can accommodate RAM in all DIMM slots, they've redesigned their top end models over the years largely with this in mind...

Plus some of the most popular RAM (G.Skill Ripjaw, Corsair LPX, HyperX) has bucked the trend on needlessly tall spreaders. I've got 4x4GB Patriot Viper DDR3 DIMMs under a 4-5 year old Cogage TRUE Spirit and will soon have 4x8GB Corsair LPX DDR4 under a Phanteks PH_TC14PE (their coolers really need sexier names like their cases).

You pretty much have to go out of your way to get a combo that ends up interfering with each other these days.

 

[doyll]

A couple of the top end Corsair CLC are decent, and will outperform top end air coolers

You pretty much have to go out of your way to get a combo that ends up interfering with each other these days.

Which CLC's are you referring to? I ask because I haven't seen any that are. Some testing will show many CLCs out-performing air, but they are using room ambient as baseline, not cooler / radiator intake air temp. Cooler intake is the critical one. Room ambient means almost nothing. Using room ambient is like looking at the thermometer in the bedroom to see what the temperature is in the kitchen .. might be the same by probably not.
Here is test results showing both room and cooler intake air temps as well as noise levels

We still need to check for RAM height to cooler compatibility. While we are seeing more low and mid height RAM, there is still plenty of tall stuff to screw up the works. .

 

[Impulse]

Going off memory from Hard's review it seemed to me the newest version of their 110 (hate the convoluted iterative naming scheme, as bad as GPU at this point) was pretty close, the Swiftech units were far quieter still tho... Could be wrong.

Far too often CLC aren't compared against anything but other CLC or noise levels are barely tested. That chart made by you? Not entirely sure what some of those columns represent, could use a legend, or I could use some sleep... Both are a distinct possibility.

 

[doyll]

I'm in the same situation. My Ivy Bridge mobo has bit the big one and it's MA tax free weekend this Sat/Sun so I'm going to pick up a 5820k @ Microcenter for $299. (Thinking of picking up a refurbed MSI X99A Plus for $179)

http://us.hardware.info/reviews/5629/5/39-cpu-coolers-review-what-is-the-best-choice-graphs-cooling-socketn2011

How accurate is that graph? Going by that the SilverStone Argon AR01 is a tremendous deal @ Newegg for $35. I'd like to not deal with water cooling and be able to overclock a little bit. Maybe make it up to 4.2-4.4GHz.

AR01 is not a bad cooler, but it is much louder than many others. At 7v it is 38dBA (as loud as most people find acceptable) and at 12v it is 51dBA

One of the best values is the Thermalright TRUE Spirit 140 rev.A for $49.90 on Amazon or $39.95 + post from Nan's Gaming Gear
It"s cooling and noise levels are almost the same as NH-D15 and other top cooler ..only a couple degrees warmer and slightly quieter than the very best.
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/71...irit-140-bw-rev-cpu-cooler-review/index6.html

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/71...irit-140-bw-rev-cpu-cooler-review/index6.html

 

[doyll]

Going off memory from Hard's review it seemed to me the newest version of their 110 (hate the convoluted iterative naming scheme, as bad as GPU at this point) was pretty close, the Swiftech units were far quieter still tho... Could be wrong.

Far too often CLC aren't compared against anything but other CLC or noise levels are barely tested. That chart made by you? Not entirely sure what some of those columns represent, could use a legend, or I could use some sleep... Both are a distinct possibility.

Yeah, | just used George's data in what I think is a little easier format to understand. It's not perfect by any means but I try. There is a lot of data in there so it's takes some quick thinking to see and understand.
Green are best (lowest noise and temps)
Red (Pink) are worst.

Some of the columns are not necessary. Only the delta temps are needed, but I included actual CPU temps, the room and cooler / radiator intake air temps to show how much difference there is in showing what the actual cooing ability is versus room ambient. George's system is surprisingly stable at cooler / radiator intake temps but is 8-10c warmer than room. The NH-D15 receiving 2c cooler air than radiators is an anomaly. Normally air coolers receive warmer air than AIO / CLC systems do. George exhasut through AIO / CLC too, which is good as it means case air is cooler and components run cooler .. Not components on loop, but everything that is air cooled in the system.

Anything else you don't understand, please feel free to ask.

 

[doyll]

Add info to last post.

 

[Wag]

AR01 is not a bad cooler, but it is much louder than many others. At 7v it is 38dBA (as loud as most people find acceptable) and at 12v it is 51dBA

One of the best values is the Thermalright TRUE Spirit 140 rev.A for $49.90 on Amazon or $39.95 + post from Nan's Gaming Gear
It"s cooling and noise levels are almost the same as NH-D15 and other top cooler ..only a couple degrees warmer and slightly quieter than the very best.
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/71...irit-140-bw-rev-cpu-cooler-review/index6.html

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/71...irit-140-bw-rev-cpu-cooler-review/index6.html

Looks good. I picked one up @ Amazon for $50. I just picked up a refurb MSI X99A SLI Plus (6mos warranty) for $179. Decent deal considering I'm getting USB 3.1 ports.

Lastly is DDR4 and I'm all set. So I'm assuming 16GB 4x4 quad-channel kit will be adequate? What speed? I'm new to DDR4 and I don't know how well it overclocks.

 

[Impulse]

Add info to last post.

I got what the red/green coding means, kinda standard fare for that sorta table... And I know what the first five columns represent, I remember you emphasising intake temps elsewhere and even tho I didn't pay it much attention at the time I understand why it's relevant...

I understand intake is a more accurate metric of which cooler is more effective by itself without being influenced by case temps/fan mount location etc tho (no?). Are intake temps measured with a sensor right in front of the cooler or what btw?

You lost me with the decibel columns tho... I'm guessing the first is the highest noise level each cooler reached?

And the next three are... What, fan speeds normalized so they're all under 40dB? Except the Noctua which never goes that high to begin with? First one is actual temp with fans under 40dB? (the 'cooler' label made me think intake temp at first since the intake column is labeled 'cooler intake')

The next one (delta) is self explanatory if I'm right about the previous one... And the last one is just an actual decibel measurement because he couldn't get them all at exactly 40 and/or one doesn't go that high? Your explanation might've been simpler than my guesswork...

Lemme know if I'm on the right track tho. The first <40dB column might be easier to interpret at a glance if it simply read '<40dB Actual or Temp', unless I have it all wrong lol. You're right tho, tons of info to condense into one table!

 

[Impulse]

Which CLC's are you referring to? I ask because I haven't seen any that are. Some testing will show many CLCs out-performing air, but they are using room ambient as baseline, not cooler / radiator intake air temp. Cooler intake is the critical one. Room ambient means almost nothing. Using room ambient is like looking at the thermometer in the bedroom to see what the temperature is in the kitchen .. might be the same by probably not.
Here is test results showing both room and cooler intake air temps as well as noise levels.

Hmm, the more I think about that the more I realize why you harp on it so much... Specially when people test LCL and HSF against each other with the LCL sucking in fresh air and the HSF sucking in air already heated up by the GPU etc.

One could argue that is an advantage of LCLs in and of itself... Although as someone that has long favored cases with more direct airflow (not the S path nonsense of most ATX designs), I wouldn't be one of those making said argument. Air coming into my HSF touches nothing else first! (well, a filter)

Anyway, if those #s are accurate (not doubting it, I've just no clue who George is) then even the top CLC are farther behind than I thought, that's pretty bad. Might have to go look at that Corsair article by Dustin S and see how it compares, not that I'd put any more faith in that...

There's also something to be said for testing at different load levels. The last Anandtech heatsink roundup was pretty interesting as several coolers moved up and down in position when testing with say, 100W vs 250W.

I think they could've simplified it and tested at just three different levels (idle, mainstream/stock, enthusiast/HEDT/OC), maybe four (to represent the heat output of a Z## OC vs HEDT). Six was a bit much to take in and make sense of without losing track of the plot.

 

[Impulse]

Looks good. I picked one up @ Amazon for $50. I just picked up a refurb MSI X99A SLI Plus (6mos warranty) for $179. Decent deal considering I'm getting USB 3.1 ports.

Lastly is DDR4 and I'm all set. So I'm assuming 16GB 4x4 quad-channel kit will be adequate? What speed? I'm new to DDR4 and I don't know how well it overclocks.

From what I've seen, Haswell-E is more finicky about memory OC so you might not get to go super high there. Might just wanna shoot for 2400/2666... Prices all mesh together around there anyway, 2133 won't be much cheaper, they start going up for 3000+ kits. Expect to pay about $140...

 

[doyll]

Looks good. I picked one up @ Amazon for $50. I just picked up a refurb MSI X99A SLI Plus (6mos warranty) for $179. Decent deal considering I'm getting USB 3.1 ports.

Lastly is DDR4 and I'm all set. So I'm assuming 16GB 4x4 quad-channel kit will be adequate? What speed? I'm new to DDR4 and I don't know how well it overclocks.

I'm not up on motherboards, RAM, CPUs or GPUs. I'm kept pretty busy just staying on top of air coolers and fans.