Advice wanted: Help me find the right fingertip grip gaming mouse

ELB

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Joined
Sep 10, 2006
Messages
17
First, thanks for reading.

Over the past few weeks I've done a ridiculous amount of research and searching for the right mouse for me, and I just can't seem to identify a good fit (often literally).

Here are my specs:
- I have truly average sized man hands (7.5" wrist to longest fingertip, 3.5" palm width, average finger width and length)
- I am right-handed and use a fingertip grip. Thumb grips left side. Index and middle fingers on LMB and RMB, respectively. Ring finger and pinky grip right side. Palm barely touches mouse, if that. Side-to-side horizontal movement is fingers and wrist. Front-and-back vertical movement 100% fingers. My arm doesn't move.
- Currently using a Logitech G5. I know that many consider this too big for fingertip grip, but it works fairly well for me. Because even though the mouse is large overall, the thumb depression is deep. Also, the right side angles smoothly downward (no hard edges), so my ring finger can rest comfortably along the side and grip effectively. Furthermore, the surface materials are good — I get plenty of grip, without discomfort or sweat. Still, I find the mouse a bit large, and the sensor is nothing special. I believe I can do better.

Here's what I'm hoping to find in a new mouse:
- Good fit for my fingertip grip
- High-quality, gaming-level DPI optical sensor (I tend to play at 800 DPI with my laser-sensored G5, but I also have software sensitivity set at middle-high (in games and Windows) to allow my fingertip grip to move the mouse effectively across my 24" 1920x1080 monitor). I don't know what DPI I'd play at with an optical sensor.
- At least five buttons, but preferably 7+. It seems that every optical mouse that's on the smaller side, and so well suited to a fingertip grip, has the bare minimum of buttons, as in three. Three? That may work in straightforward FPS games, but I also play RTS, MOBA, MMO, CRPG, etc. I simply need more programmable buttons, and those only seem available on palm-grip-only and/or laser-sensored mice.
- Lighter weight. Not looking for a featherweight mouse, but I prefer a lighter weight to something on the heavier side (like some metal mice).
- The rest is the obvious stuff all gamers look for: quality switches, solid feel, nice surfaces and coatings, reliable and customizable software, decent warranty, etc.
- I'd prefer to pay under $70, but price isn't a major concern
- Things like looks, colored lights, etc. aren't at all important to me

Some options I've identified (opinions please):
- CM Storm Spawn. I like CM mice quality and software. My concern with this mouse is the right-side ring-finger rest. I've tried those before (Razer Naga, for instance), and while they are comfortable, the don't allow the fingertip grip user to get optimum leverage. There isn't a store around here that carries it.
- CM Storm Recon. This could be perfect or nearly so, but, again, I'm unsure of the shape for fingertip users. But, again, there isn't a store around here that carries it.
- MadCatz Cyborg Rat 3. A lot of reviewers are really surprised at how good the cheapest Rat is, often preferring it to the Rat 5, 7 and (maybe) 9 (no one reviews the 9). It's optical and has multiple buttons with a shift key. Lighter weight too. Some adjustment is also available, but not as much as it's more expensive siblings. I've never found one to try. I'm somewhat concerned that it's too wide to fingertip grip comfortably.
- Logitech G400s. Another decent option, since it has multiple buttons and a well-regarded sensor. The shape will be very similar to my G5, which is good, because my G5 is a solid fit...but I'm hoping for better.
- Logitech G9x. Many people rave about this mouse, and fingertip grip users often say it's the best fit out there. But it isn't optical, it's laser. And I've heard the middle mouse button isn't wonderful, though it does tilt left/right, which is nice. I've never been able to try one.
- SteelSeries Sensei. Another beloved mouse. And folks say it's well shaped for fingertip grip users. But, again, not optical...it's laser. This is rarely mentioned, though, so perhaps the laser is so accurate it's equal to optical. I haven't been able to try this either.
- Roccat Savu. Roccat is renowned for quality. The Savu is a high-end optical offering. It's got multiple buttons and a shift key that effectively doubles the number. However, I'm quite concerned it's too wide for fingertip use. I tried this briefly in a store, and I didn't instantly take to the fit.

Please help. I've really put a lot of effort in to the search. Your feedback is most welcome.

Thanks,

ELB
 

wadec22

2[H]4U
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Jul 26, 2005
Messages
3,871
I would say the kone pure optical but it only has the four buttons plus two sensitivity buttons....
 

Autochthon

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 28, 2005
Messages
412
I have the same length hand (though mine is wider) and use the same grip. I'm trying out a g700s and have been pleased. Downside is it is heavy and you probably wouldn't want to use it with the wire connected.
 

Xonar

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Aug 18, 2012
Messages
58
The Zowie FK works great with palm grip or finger and it has the best sensor on the market. The only downside is that it only has 3 default DPI levels, but no drivers which are always a plus.

If you're a FPS play (like CS) then the Zowie series is really popular among the community.

Logitech G400s also has the best sensor, but the mouse is bigger.
 

ELB

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Sep 10, 2006
Messages
17
The Kone Pure Optical could work, since when I said at least 5 buttons, I was including LMB and RMB. So, if you add that to the middle mouse button (mouse wheel click) and the two left thumb buttons, you make the 5 minimum. I'm concerned that it may be too wide to fingertip, but I'll look into it further. Is it relatively narrow?

The G700s is a popular mouse, but it's also a laser, not optical. The optical G-series offering of choice is the G400s, as Xonar pointed out. I may go that route, but, again, I'm trying to find an alternative to Logitech, since I have one and it isn't ideally shaped (though it is pretty good).

Anyone know about the CMs?

What about the SteelSeries Sensei? Why is that so popular with gamers if it's laser? Is its laser optical-grade accurate or zero acceleration somehow?

- Erik
 

doubletake

Gawd
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Apr 27, 2013
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663
What you really need to do is not be so dead-set on keeping your current grip style. It's actually a lot easier than you might think to retrain muscle memory (well, assuming you're not like 60+ years old) for a different grip style. I've gone from palming a ball mouse with medium sensitivity, to claw-gripping a laser mouse @ 3200DPI and moving no more than 2 inches in any direction, to my current setup with a Roccat Savu using the same claw grip, but at 800DPI and low in-game sensitivities in order to use moderately large (6"-8") sweeping motions. It never took me more than 2 weeks to readjust from one style to the other.

You really need to just get whatever type of sensor mouse you want, and then adjust your grip style to whatever is most intuitive, as long as doing so doesn't cause you prolonged physical discomfort. If after about a week or so you don't feel like you'll ever get comfortable with the mouse+grip setup, then just try again with a new one. There really aren't any shortcuts you can take to finding an optimal ergonomic setup when it comes to peripherals you'll be using mostly likely daily for years on end. You just need to stop hesitating and start trying out various devices until you find something you're comfortable with. After all, there's really no guarantee that anything anyone here suggests will be 100% ok with you, whether it's because of the ergonomics of the device, or the quality of the sensor tracking.
 

ELB

n00b
Joined
Sep 10, 2006
Messages
17
What you really need to do is not be so dead-set on keeping your current grip style. It's actually a lot easier than you might think to retrain muscle memory (well, assuming you're not like 60+ years old) for a different grip style. I've gone from palming a ball mouse with medium sensitivity, to claw-gripping a laser mouse @ 3200DPI and moving no more than 2 inches in any direction, to my current setup with a Roccat Savu using the same claw grip, but at 800DPI and low in-game sensitivities in order to use moderately large (6"-8") sweeping motions. It never took me more than 2 weeks to readjust from one style to the other.

You really need to just get whatever type of sensor mouse you want, and then adjust your grip style to whatever is most intuitive, as long as doing so doesn't cause you prolonged physical discomfort. If after about a week or so you don't feel like you'll ever get comfortable with the mouse+grip setup, then just try again with a new one. There really aren't any shortcuts you can take to finding an optimal ergonomic setup when it comes to peripherals you'll be using mostly likely daily for years on end. You just need to stop hesitating and start trying out various devices until you find something you're comfortable with. After all, there's really no guarantee that anything anyone here suggests will be 100% ok with you, whether it's because of the ergonomics of the device, or the quality of the sensor tracking.

doubletake, I want to thank you for that dose of perspective. Though I've solicited a lot of feedback in my now somewhat lengthy seach for a mouse, you're the first to present it in this light. And, funny enough, just this morning prior to reading your post, I thought that very thing — perhaps it is I who need to adjust.

Because while I'm sure others have better luck finding a mouse that near-instantly feels at home in their hand, I have not. Lest you think that I've been paralyzed by indecision throughout the entire process, I have actually purchased three mice in my quest to find the "right" one, but none have worked out. Then again, I didn't give any that much of a chance — they just proved uncomfortable fairly quickly and so I rejected them.

Honestly, I don't see migrating from my fingertip grip to anything like a palm grip. The idea of moving my whole arm just seems wrong, and I say this from a little experience, as I did try this with my current mouse this weekend. If I gave it enough time, I'm sure I could do it, but I'm quite sure I don't want to. Migrating to more of a claw grip would be doable, I believe, especially if I picked up a smaller mouse.

I did manage to try a good number of those I was curious about in the stores over the past few days. And there were a number — particularly the SteelSeries Sensei and Storm Xornet (same shape as the Spawn) — that fit quite nicely but were eliminated because their thumb buttons were simply too far forward. This was plainly a consequence of my unwillingness to "choke up on" the mouse and move my hand further forward than I'm used to.

So, that was the long way of saying that I agree with you, and I may purchase something to train on, as you suggest.

Thanks for the input,

ELB
 

Autochthon

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 28, 2005
Messages
412
This was plainly a consequence of my unwillingness to "choke up on" the mouse and move my hand further forward than I'm used to.

Have you tried rotating the mouse about 15 degrees counterclockwise in your grip? This moves the thumb forward.
 

L4d

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 19, 2012
Messages
167
What about the SteelSeries Sensei? Why is that so popular with gamers if it's laser? Is its laser optical-grade accurate or zero acceleration somehow?

- Erik
People like the Sensei because of its shell, MCU, and possibly software, but its sensor exhibits inconsistent tracking (acceleration).

You know of the Kone Pure Optical, so you should end your search there unless you dislike something of it. It has gotten great reviews and shares the tracking of the Savu but with better internals.

The Zowie mice use non-standard lenses, so it does not have the common 800 C.P.I, setting that you want, and its malfunction speed is effected by its custom lens so that it would get less I.P.S or m/s than the other Avago 3090 sensor based mice the Savu and Kone Pure Optical, so if L.O.D. being low is warranted, the Zowie mice would be my recommendation, but I would not need such a low L.O.D., so I would want a standard lens for more I.P.S. or m/s.
 

ELB

n00b
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Sep 10, 2006
Messages
17
Autochthon and L4d, thanks for the replies. The process continues...

I haven't tried rotating the mouse, but it seems that if I want to get into a different mouse, I am going to have to adjust my grip some, so this is worth trying.

L4d, you're right that the Kone Pure Optical seems like the best option. I did try the same-sized Kone Pure Laser in the store and didn't find it a great fit, but now that I've determined that I'm going to have to adjust some to whatever I buy, I think this is the #1 choice. It seems like the only one that meets all of my main criteria — good optical sensor, a surplus of buttons, quality construction, lighter weight and a size that's compatible with a finger-tip grip.

So, we'll see how it goes.

Thanks,

ELB
 

killmenow

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Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Messages
62
I would recommend the CM Storm Spawn in a heartbeat if it was consistent at high speeds. The shape is absolutely godly. With the ring-finger rest, you end up clawing with the side of your pinky finger, but as the mouse is very light weight, you get excellent control effortlessly. When you don't feel like clawing, the stubbiness of the mouse lets you use a palm/claw hybrid grip as well, with the back of the mouse butted up against the top of your palm. The mouse has rubber sides, so grip is never an issue. Definitely buy the mouse if you see it on sale for ~$20. Nothing even comes close ergonomically.

If you are a low sensitivity player, you might come across some inconsistencies when mousing quickly with the Spawn. I found that the mouse responded differently depending on the direction of the swipe (L/R). I was never able to find similar reports online. The sensor also isn't centered. Tracking was improved with newer firmwares, but I fell in love with the 1CD LOD.

I have use half a dozen different mice since the Storm Spawn (and many before it), but have recently returned to it hoping that I can live with its flaws. The G300 tracked consistently, but the button layout, sensor placement, and durability of the cable made it a poor permanent solution. The acceleration on the Sensei RAW was unmanageable without a hard surface. The DeathAdder was downright unusable (sensor was great, but the mouse was simply too heavy, clunky, and physically skewed). Even the G400 was too heavy and awkward after coming from the Spawn/G300. Without the rubber texture found on the MX518, the G400 was difficult to pick up. The Savu has a pretty high LOD, imperfect tracking, and was too hard to keep straight (has a tendency to rotate on the xy-plane).
 

ELB

n00b
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Sep 10, 2006
Messages
17
killmenow,

I really appreciate your insight into the Spawn. I know many love this mouse (and it's a great deal price-wise).

For my use, however, there are a few issues with it. First, I'm not a claw grip user; I use a fingertip grip. And while I haven't managed to find a Spawn in stores, I did try a Xornet the other day, which I believe shares the same or a very similar shape. The Xornet was comfortable for me; however, with my grip, my thumb fell too far back behind the left-side thumb buttons, so it was too much of a stretch to reach them easily. Moving my thumb forward forced me into a classic claw grip, which I'm not used to (perhaps I should try modifying my grip, but that's another matter).

Furthermore, the mouse doesn't have a lot of buttons/functions. With the two thumb buttons, middle mouse, and two buttons behind the mouse wheel (generally for DPI switching), it's not bad, but it's not ideal either. And I play a fair number of games that utilize a higher number of commands.

Finally, as a competitive gamer, twitch player, etc., I'm just not in your league. I've come across many on the various forums who clearly utilize their mouse at the highest level, and therefore demand absolute precision control for the extremely rapid play required by top-tier FPS, RTS, etc. While I play and enjoy those games, I'm just not at that pro-athlete-like level of reflexes. So, the virtues of a mouse with perfect tracking, accuracy, LOD, "flickability" would be lost on me.

It'd be like putting a world-class sniper rifle in the hands of a green recruit in basic training.

Still, coming off my Logitech G5, which I do find on the ponderous side (even without the weights), I'm intrigued by smaller, more nimble mice. So, given that the cost is quite low for the Spawn, I might still give it a go as a second mouse.

And I really appreciate your guidance.

- ELB
 

Nenu

[H]ardened
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Apr 28, 2007
Messages
19,537
What about the SteelSeries Sensei? Why is that so popular with gamers if it's laser? Is its laser optical-grade accurate or zero acceleration somehow?

- Erik

Its a great mouse.
It has a pentium class cpu inside to increase accuracy.
There is a lift height setting that allows it to work on almost any surface.
I game on my sofa and have been using the mouse on a fur seat cover today, it tracks even on that!

Its tracking and resolution are incredible and it looks great too.
The mouse wheel looks like a Tron light cycle wheel.

There are a lot of configuration options and they can be saved to the mouse.
It even has an LED display on the bottom and can be configured through it or used to select a saved profile.
There is a configurable DPI switch on the top that toggles between 2 DPIs you set.
Great for switching between sniper and normal view on some games, or if you switch between different mouse surfaces.

You can turn off all acceleration, this is how I use it.

There are 2 buttons on each side, default config is page forward/back on the left, page up/down on the right. The right buttons are great for managing long web pages rapidly.

Theres a lot of good to say about it, I wont bore you :)
 

L4d

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 19, 2012
Messages
167
This is the first complaint that I have seen regarding the tracking of the Savu...

Cooler Master stated that it will produce another Spawn mouse! The current Spawn has the known "key presses" bug that causes elevated C.P.U. usage when some keys are pressed for talk programs, such as Ventrillo, and etc, but the newest firmware address this bug, at the cost of reported lower tracking speed.
 

ThinJ

Gawd
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Jan 20, 2007
Messages
733
In my computer room right now I have a G500, a G400S, a Razer Deathadder Black Edition, and also in the house are an MX518, a Zowie Mico, and a CM Storm Spawn.

I use the Spawn pretty much all the time.

I came from palm gripping the Deathadder and have switched to a sort of half claw/fingertip deal with the Spawn. Never going back to another big palm grip mouse again.
 

MrGuvernment

Fully [H]
Joined
Aug 3, 2004
Messages
19,816
What you really need to do is not be so dead-set on keeping your current grip style. It's actually a lot easier than you might think to retrain muscle memory (well, assuming you're not like 60+ years old) for a different grip style. I've gone from palming a ball mouse with medium sensitivity, to claw-gripping a laser mouse @ 3200DPI and moving no more than 2 inches in any direction, to my current setup with a Roccat Savu using the same claw grip, but at 800DPI and low in-game sensitivities in order to use moderately large (6"-8") sweeping motions. It never took me more than 2 weeks to readjust from one style to the other.

You really need to just get whatever type of sensor mouse you want, and then adjust your grip style to whatever is most intuitive, as long as doing so doesn't cause you prolonged physical discomfort. If after about a week or so you don't feel like you'll ever get comfortable with the mouse+grip setup, then just try again with a new one. There really aren't any shortcuts you can take to finding an optimal ergonomic setup when it comes to peripherals you'll be using mostly likely daily for years on end. You just need to stop hesitating and start trying out various devices until you find something you're comfortable with. After all, there's really no guarantee that anything anyone here suggests will be 100% ok with you, whether it's because of the ergonomics of the device, or the quality of the sensor tracking.

Great info, after seeing this model, it has weights which i love, i have larger hands but i tend to use my fingers to control my my mouse, my wrist sits on the wrist pad and my thumb and pinky do most of the movement for it,so my wrist really doesnt move at all does that work with this mouse?

http://www.amazon.com/ROCCAT-Custom...F8&qid=1380332966&sr=1-2&keywords=Roccat+Savu


In my computer room right now I have a G500, a G400S, a Razer Deathadder Black Edition, and also in the house are an MX518, a Zowie Mico, and a CM Storm Spawn.

I use the Spawn pretty much all the time.

I came from palm gripping the Deathadder and have switched to a sort of half claw/fingertip deal with the Spawn. Never going back to another big palm grip mouse again.

This one?

http://www.amazon.com/CM-Storm-Havo...qid=1380333163&sr=1-3&keywords=CM+Storm+Spawn

i like the look of this one...
CM Storm Sentinel Advance II

thinking for my larger hands...
 

L4d

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 19, 2012
Messages
167
Great info, after seeing this model, it has weights which i love, i have larger hands but i tend to use my fingers to control my my mouse, my wrist sits on the wrist pad and my thumb and pinky do most of the movement for it,so my wrist really doesnt move at all does that work with this mouse?

http://www.amazon.com/ROCCAT-Custom...F8&qid=1380332966&sr=1-2&keywords=Roccat+Savu




This one?

http://www.amazon.com/CM-Storm-Havo...qid=1380333163&sr=1-3&keywords=CM+Storm+Spawn

i like the look of this one...
CM Storm Sentinel Advance II

thinking for my larger hands...
The next Spawn might be worth getting, but the current Spawn's bug without the latest firmware might be bad for you, and its latest firmware fixes the bug, but reportedly effects its tracking causing lower m/s or I.P.S.

The CM Storm Sentinel Advance II uses the Avago 9800, so I do not recommend It because of its inconsistent tracking.
 

RPGWiZaRD

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
1,147
Just a headsup, I'm also using the exact same grip-style and everything you described about it is also how I grip my mice.

I'm still currently a Logitech MX518 user and using it as long as it lasts as it "works" for me without getting disturbed but at the same time I have same demands/interests when finding a new mouse like you. I feel it's slightly too large (long especially) and slightly too heavy and the sensor isn't the best out there today.

- I also prefer slightly lighter & smaller mice, not the smallest but not the biggest, something in-between small and medium such as Savu for example.

I've tested Savu and I really liked the sensor, the size and how it glided on my mousepads but ultimately the shape didn't work for me for 2 reasons; the peak at which the highest height of it is centered, was moved too far back so it felt awkward, I believe for fingertip grippers it's important that it's not too far back positioned, should be pretty centered or very slightly positioned back possibly. The second issue with the shape was it's too rectangular shape, I needed a more round backside of the mouse for it to feel natural in my grip and so that the fingers at the side (thumb and pinky+ring) could comfortably rest against it.

Now the Roccat Pure Optical looks to have tweaked exactly these things. It's also under my scope but CM Storm Spawm has also been interesting as well as good but ol' MS IE 1.1 (never tested it yet). Can be bought over ebay.
 
Last edited:

MrGuvernment

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The next Spawn might be worth getting, but the current Spawn's bug without the latest firmware might be bad for you, and its latest firmware fixes the bug, but reportedly effects its tracking causing lower m/s or I.P.S.

The CM Storm Sentinel Advance II uses the Avago 9800, so I do not recommend It because of its inconsistent tracking.

So i am screwed :D or hope the G500s hits amazon sometime soon for a proper price
 

MrGuvernment

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i had the G500 before as i liked the weights a lot, but the g400s doesn't have the weights.
 

L4d

Limp Gawd
Joined
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Messages
167
The G400s was my recommendation because of its more consistent tracking versus the G500/s, so if weight is more important to you, other mice might suffice.
 

PeterDLai

Weaksauce
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Mar 15, 2007
Messages
72
- Logitech G9x. Many people rave about this mouse, and fingertip grip users often say it's the best fit out there. But it isn't optical, it's laser. And I've heard the middle mouse button isn't wonderful, though it does tilt left/right, which is nice. I've never been able to try one.

It's not just "not wonderful", it's pretty terrible if you intend on actually using it as a button. I don't really use middle clicks for anything so the rest of the mouse is great for fingertip users (minus the slight acceleration of the sensor).
 

Jorona

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I went from a MX510 to a MX518 to a G5, back to the MX518, to a G500, back to the MX518, to a Steelseries Sensei. I couldn't stand how the Logitech Lasers tracked. They were also too heavy for me. The Sensei is only minutely heavier to my hand, and tracks so much better then any Laser I've ever used. With the acceleration off, I dare say it tracks better then my now failing MX518. I have large hands and quickly got used to where the side buttons are on the Sensai as opposed to the MX518, and again, I dare say it's more comfortable now then the 518 ever was.

My only problem with the Sensei is the finish is starting to wear, but that's not a big deal to me. The Logitech logo on my MX510 and 518 are both just polished Silver at this point.

If you absolutely must say with the Logitech shape. The G400/MX518 is the way to go, they just track so much better then the G500 and up models. If you want to change shapes though, I can't say enough good things about how the Sensei games. It's just a stellar mouse.

I had a palm grip on my MX518, but now more of a claw grip on the Sensei.
 

Nenu

[H]ardened
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Messages
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Agreed about the Sensei.
I also have a G500 and the Sensei tracks better.

Also the G500 required dust removing from the laser area as it more or less stopped functioning, quite annoying in the middle of a game.
I dont recall having to do that on my Sensei, it just works flawlessly, over a year now.
 

Skull_Angel

[H]ard|Gawd
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Long-time Fingertip-grip user here currently on the market for a new mouse after realizing the age of my current G9x (over several years old now :eek: ).

@ELB + RPGWiZaRD

I seem to have a similar hand size (to ELB) and grip style an have really been eyeballing the Kone Pure Optical after a week of mouse browsing.

What first caught my eye was the Zowie EC2 eVo, but reading about the problems the mouse-wheel steered me into their other mice; I wasn't all too keen on their design and thumb button placement, but what seemed to stand out was the issues their modified lens caused, and that steered me away from Zowie...

I soon moved onto the Logitec G400(s) offerings; while being highly praised by most, I just didn't like the looks of it's extended "butt". It just doesn't look like it would be comfortable for "finger-tipping".

More searching brought me to many other mice, but the offering that stood out most was Roccat's Savu. I do like the basic size and layout, but the shape pushing the "palm-hump" so far back makes it seem like it would be uncomfortable for finger-tip use.

So, that's what brought me to the Kone Pure Optical; for the most part it seem like the "perfect mouse". Everything I read seems to contradict how it feels for finger-tip users though, basically some love it and others hate it (the normal spew). If either of you get the chance to check one out before I decide to drop the ball would you mind posting your feedback?

-thanks
 

Javatango

Limp Gawd
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Oct 5, 2007
Messages
153
Another Fingertip-grip user. I do CAD at work and use the middle mousewheel button constantly (scroll to zoom and middle button to pan). The skinny middle mouse button on my Logitech G400 has started causing numbness in my finger so I started searching for something new.

I decided to order both the Roccat Kone Pure and the SteelSeries Sensei RAW rubberized from BestBuy. Had to order online as the store didn't have any to demo. If they don't work out it's nice to have a local store for returns. I will post some impressions once I have a chance to audition both.
 

Dan_D

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I use the claw/fingertip style grip as well. Most comfortable mouse I've ever used is the R.A.T.7. The versatility of the thing is the reason for that. Once it's dialed into the shape you need you'll never find better for comfort. I use my computer and mouse more than most people ever will. It is the only mouse I've ever found that doesn't bother me after 20 hours or more of straight usage with only small breaks for eating and going to the bathroom. Nothing else has remotely been in the same league. The G700 for example was one of the better ones but after a week and a few long sessions it started to hurt my hand.

With the R.A.T.7. I pass out before my hand starts to hurt. I will say that it has held up better than any mouse I've ever used as well. My only complaint about it is that there is no onboard memory forcing you to rely on the software for programmable buttons / features. Profiles must be selected from the application at startup or the buttons will default back to the way it was when you first hooked it up. I rarely reboot my system and as a result this impact is minimized in my daily life.

I tried this mouse out of curiosity and I have been a long time fan and user of Logitech's lineup. Even after getting each new one I found myself in search of another mouse regularly. Especially anytime something new came out. The RAT7 surprised me given who makes it and the crap people give the Phillips Twin-Eye sensor. (Which has worked flawlessly for me.) After getting the R.A.T.7. I've never wanted for anything else. And yes, I've tried everything that Logitech and Razer make feeling that there was always something wrong with all of them.
 

L4d

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I tried this mouse out of curiosity and I have been a long time fan and user of Logitech's lineup. Even after getting each new one I found myself in search of another mouse regularly. Especially anytime something new came out. The RAT7 surprised me given who makes it and the crap people give the Phillips Twin-Eye sensor. (Which has worked flawlessly for me.) After getting the R.A.T.7. I've never wanted for anything else. And yes, I've tried everything that Logitech and Razer make feeling that there was always something wrong with all of them.
I am glad to see that you like a P.T.E. sensor based mouse! The Razer mice after the Lachesis 3G have "Dynamic DPI scaling" or an "advanced tracking algorithm" that cause inconsistent tracking to "remedy" the "Z-axis bug", but I have been reading reviews of the Naga 2014's P.T.E. sensor reportedly not having these added things from Razer, so you might be interested in that mouse if you want a newer P.T.E. sensor based mouse...

Anyways, I too liked the P.T.E. sensor since I got my Razer Lachesis 3G in late 2008.

What surface do you use for your mouse?
 

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
57,481
I am glad to see that you like a P.T.E. sensor based mouse! The Razer mice after the Lachesis 3G have "Dynamic DPI scaling" or an "advanced tracking algorithm" that cause inconsistent tracking to "remedy" the "Z-axis bug", but I have been reading reviews of the Naga 2014's P.T.E. sensor reportedly not having these added things from Razer, so you might be interested in that mouse if you want a newer P.T.E. sensor based mouse...

Anyways, I too liked the P.T.E. sensor since I got my Razer Lachesis 3G in late 2008.

What surface do you use for your mouse?

Currently I'm using a Razer Vespula.
 

chineseman

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 28, 2004
Messages
1,218
I feel your pain OP. I've got Razer DeathAdder, Logitech G400S, and CM Storm Spawn sitting in the closet but I'm still using the Logitech G9x despite it being a laser mouse. The ergonomics of the G9x has ruined all other mice for me. Logitech discontinued the G9x and no replacement has been announced so I'm screwed if this one ever bites the dust. Here's to hoping Logitech comes out with the G900S that combines the ergonomics of the G9x with an optical sensor *prays*.
 

Javatango

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
153
Forgive my ignorance but what is the performance difference between a laser and optical sensor?
 

Skull_Angel

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 31, 2010
Messages
1,628
Forgive my ignorance but what is the performance difference between a laser and optical sensor?

(Most of) The current most popularly used laser sensors have acceleration while the most popular optical sensors do not. In most cases it's not an issue, but in competitive games where developing muscle memory for mouse movements can mean a kill or death (FPS) it may make quite a difference.
 

sylon

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
88
IMO The g9x mouse wheel click 'issues' is over blown and had I not read about it before hand it wouldn't have even occurred to me.

I'm not a fingertip gripper but was I I think it would be a great choice, the 'precision' grip has descent cutouts on the sides and a rough, dry texture that I wish more mice would replicate.



I am glad to see that you like a P.T.E. sensor based mouse! The Razer mice after the Lachesis 3G have "Dynamic DPI scaling" or an "advanced tracking algorithm" that cause inconsistent tracking to "remedy" the "Z-axis bug", but I have been reading reviews of the Naga 2014's P.T.E. sensor reportedly not having these added things from Razer, so you might be interested in that mouse if you want a newer P.T.E. sensor based mouse...

Anyways, I too liked the P.T.E. sensor since I got my Razer Lachesis 3G in late 2008.

What surface do you use for your mouse?

I'd like to say likewise for the PTE but it can be very touchy. I needed a hard pad and I need to keep it spotless, any dust = frozen cursor.

My main mouse is my Rat7 and I love it but she's a high maintenance beast.

They had the 3 at my local best buy, I didn't take it out but it seemed like a good, small mouse.

The 7 could conceivably be descent for a finger tip user if you rotated in the thumb grip and used the rubberized pinky pad.

The main problem I would find is that I found the sensor again was very sensitive to the location of my fingers, I had to choke up to have my thumb on the red precision aim button or the slight twist my grip put on the mouse would make me aim poorly. Really weird mouse behavior.
 

Skull_Angel

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 31, 2010
Messages
1,628
My significant other has been using a RAT 9 for the past several years and it has been working exceptionally after removing the "foot" that surrounds the lens, not a noticeable hiccup since. I'm starting to think that the PTE just despises any kind of glare as she's been using it on surfaces that are not glossy without issue.
 

aphasia

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
1,137
I use the claw/fingertip style grip as well. Most comfortable mouse I've ever used is the R.A.T.7. The versatility of the thing is the reason for that. Once it's dialed into the shape you need you'll never find better for comfort. I use my computer and mouse more than most people ever will. It is the only mouse I've ever found that doesn't bother me after 20 hours or more of straight usage with only small breaks for eating and going to the bathroom. Nothing else has remotely been in the same league. The G700 for example was one of the better ones but after a week and a few long sessions it started to hurt my hand.

With the R.A.T.7. I pass out before my hand starts to hurt. I will say that it has held up better than any mouse I've ever used as well. My only complaint about it is that there is no onboard memory forcing you to rely on the software for programmable buttons / features. Profiles must be selected from the application at startup or the buttons will default back to the way it was when you first hooked it up. I rarely reboot my system and as a result this impact is minimized in my daily life.

I tried this mouse out of curiosity and I have been a long time fan and user of Logitech's lineup. Even after getting each new one I found myself in search of another mouse regularly. Especially anytime something new came out. The RAT7 surprised me given who makes it and the crap people give the Phillips Twin-Eye sensor. (Which has worked flawlessly for me.) After getting the R.A.T.7. I've never wanted for anything else. And yes, I've tried everything that Logitech and Razer make feeling that there was always something wrong with all of them.

had very similar experience. like the OP and yourself, i claw-grip my mice.

at beginning of year my old Logitech MX1000 died, surprised it lasted as long as it did, had it since early 2005.

i think anyone who enters the market for a new mouse hate the experience (i did) as old muscle memory dies hard. looking back i dont know how i coped with my old MX1000 with my claw-grip, definately done some damage to my right hand after using (the way i did) for so long.

next mouse was and old back-up lenovo 2 button optical. wasn't that bad actaully, much lighter than the old MX tho very basic and poor for gaming.

picked-up a G700, the reviews were mostly good and it was logitech, what could go wrong... used it for a week, went back to my crap lenovo mouse. the G700 isn't a bad mouse, just rubbish for claw-grippers. i loved the scroll-wheel on that mouse (free-spinning or notched) plus it has a 4-way scroller (up-down, left-right). the other issue was the weight but the USB charger cable (nice idea when battery flat tho) was just too stiff.

at this point i crossed all cordless mice off my list, too many downsides.

next mouse - steel series sensi. now where talking. nice mouse, great features tho still not perfect. claw-gripping (for me at least) meant the side 'forward & back' buttons were to far forward. ended up tilting mouse so thumb could reach, only problem with that, often right mouse clicks weren't registered b/c index finger too far back on button. the other issue i experienced was the mouse got tacky after long periods of use (gaming & normal desktop work), i guess in part due to coating on top and sides of mouse. had to keep wiping down the mouse every couple of hours.

getting annoyed now, have already wasted around $150 on mice i cant use, the next mouse i knew was going to put me well over $200 spent. picked up a mad catz - RAT 7. this mouse is 'almost' perfect. the thumb button plate can be adjusted forward & back and swiveled in & out. there are 3 pinkie plates (they could be a bit bigger imho) and the palm plate is adjustable (forward & back) plus there a 3 replaceable plates that adjust height. finally the mouse can be weighted tho for me i didn't use any.
the only big issue i has was installing the software, just couldn't get the damn thing to install correctly. i'm guessing this might have something to do with 3 other mouse driver/applications still installed on system. i'm sure if i clean out the other crap, the RAT 7 software should install correctly.

been using my RAT 7 for a couple of months now and hardly experience any discomfort after long use anymore. as Dan mentioned, once you've tweaked and adjusted the mouse properly, it's a joy to use.
 

RPGWiZaRD

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
1,147
What about Zowie AM / FK? They look like a good alternative for claw/fingertip users, nicely shaped for that grip at least (Zowie mentions it's geared towards clawgrippers).

These two (AM and FK) are fairly the same, only the shape is different, I personally like the newer FK on the basis it has \ / shape instead of / \ shape at the front so it's easier to grip. The MX518 that I use also has these similar "wings" or protruded edges in order to be able to easy grip/lift it and it definitely helps in my case, I'd probably like that with the FK too.

So for me it probably stands between Kone Pure Optical vs Zowie FK. They both aren't the expensiest kind so maybe I should order both whenever my MX518 finally bites the dust.
 
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Javatango

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
153
@ RPGWizard: I recommend picking up a bunch of different models from a store with a good return policy. Try them all out and return the models that don't work out for you. I do the same thing when purchasing showerheads. You're just not going know how it works for you until you give it a try.

I am currently testing the Roccat Kone Pure (laser), Steelseries Sensei RAW, Mionix Naos 3200, and Roccat Savu.
 
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