Advice on high-end triple-SLI GTX 680 based build.

pstack

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Please bear with me as I know this is a lengthy post. I’ve been mulling things about in my head for weeks and have finally concluded that (since the 5970 from my two year old rig is in the RMA pipeline with XFX due to desktop/2D artifacting) it’s time to reach out for other opinions.

I’m a software engineer, so I know a bit about hardware -- but hardware isn’t my profession and I only tend to catch up on the latest tech every couple years, before the next big new build. This time around, the options, complexities, and potential gotchas seem more numerous than ever. I normally plan a build in a few hours, pick up the parts, slap it together that evening and I’m done. I buy high-end, but not highest and I don’t bother with cabling or water-cooling. This time around, I’m being more patient and plan to really put effort into this. I want to try water-cooling, cabling, and making this a pretty high-end system. I’d like to come out of this knowing if I have myself a new hobby or not.


I’ll try to keep my thoughts as concise as possible and am grateful for any input:


1) What will you be doing with this PC?
High-end gaming rig.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
Uncertain, but I’d probably like to keep it as far under $3,500 USD as possible. That includes everything inside the chassis (likely a Caselabs STH10), but not the chassis itself or any external components.

3) Which country do you live in?
Denver, USA

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget?
CPU, GPUs, RAM, MOBO, SSD, PSU, cabling, water-cooling, possibly a sound card.

NOTE: I intend to water-cool (my first time doing so) and I intend to go 3xSLI with GTX 680s.

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing?
Nothing.

6) Will you be overclocking?
Possibly, but I’m not looking to claim benchmarking records.

7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
It’ll be a minimum of a single 30” ACD at 2560x1600 and possibly will be 3x27” or 3x30” at up to 7680x1440

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
Most likely in June.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard?
Real USB 3.0 and SATA 6gb would be nice. Firewire would be a bonus.

10) OS.
It’ll be running Windows 7 for gaming and Debian the rest of the time.


QUESTIONS:

1) Other than warranty and support, is there any reason to select one brand (EVGA, ASUS, MSI, etc) over another? In the context of 3xSLI, should I give one brand more weight than another?

2) Should I buy the more expensive version with water block already attached (is EVGA the only card with this, right now, with their $700 Hydro Copper?) or should I attach my own blocks? I know that if I attach my own, I’m basically limiting myself to only choosing a standard reference design card, but if I go with the pre-blocked, I’m also only looking at the one card option, it looks like. Any thoughts or advice on this subject would be appreciated. Also, EVGA has a 4gb 680 for $630 without a waterblock, which may perhaps be the better deal(?) . . . but . . . for all I know, another waterblock might not fit on it.

3) I know that SLI can be finicky, so is there any reason to pair card and motherboard brands? For example, ASUS 680 with ASUS mobo or EVGA 680 with EVGA mobo? I suppose maintaining the same ecosystem would perhaps facilitate interactions with support, but is there any technical reason?


4) Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge? I know that Ivy Bridge comes out of the box with 15-20% greater performance, but is hotter and has poorer over clocks. I suppose the heat is mitigated by my intention to use water-cooling and I am not positive if I intend to over clock any of my components or not. In the past, I wouldn’t hesitate, but with such a huge investment, I’m not eager to break my warranty and eat $1500 in cards or $500 in a CPU. That said, I *may* still OC, anyway. I’m just not looking to push some sort of record-setting benchmark or anything.


5) Is there any value in PCI 3.0 for 3xSLI? There seem to be conflicting statements all over the place. If so, then the question of Sandy versus Ivy, above, is obviously already made for me, then.


Again, I’m very grateful for any advice. If left to my own devices, I’d spend another six months reading and watching everything and making lists and charts and still never get around to pulling the trigger. At this point, I think I just really need to have someone give me a sanity check and move on from there.
 
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1) As for video cards, any with a 3 yr warranty that's transferable (or serial based) is good. EVGA has some additional perks, such as advanced rma, step up etc, and have really good customer service.

2) You may want to wait and hold out for the 4GB cards if you really are going to play at 7680x1440. Most full coverage waterblocks will have a list of all the cards they fit. I know EK does.

3) No. Brands will not matter in this respect. SLI can be finicky because of game/driver issues.

4) Ivy bridge all the way. You'll want pcie 3.0 for a tri-sli setup. Get the Intel tuning plan for $25 and don't worry about it, oc till your heart's content.

5) Yes, and even if it is a very little improvement why not since z77/3770k isn't really any more expensive than z68/2600k.
 
Might I also recommend a CaseLabs M8 if you're watercooling three 680s and your CPU. You'll want to have multiple large radiators.

Doh! didn't see this
That includes everything inside the chassis (likely a Caselabs STH10),
:) +1 for CaseLabs
 
I think the ASUS P8Z77 WS would be a perfect fit for your needs.

3x30" monitors would be 7680x1600 BTW. The 27's are 2560x1440.
 
1) As for video cards, any with a 3 yr warranty that's transferable (or serial based) is good. EVGA has some additional perks, such as advanced rma, step up etc, and have really good customer service.

2) You may want to wait and hold out for the 4GB cards if you really are going to play at 7680x1440. Most full coverage waterblocks will have a list of all the cards they fit. I know EK does.

3) No. Brands will not matter in this respect. SLI can be finicky because of game/driver issues.

4) Ivy bridge all the way. You'll want pcie 3.0 for a tri-sli setup. Get the Intel tuning plan for $25 and don't worry about it, oc till your heart's content.

5) Yes, and even if it is a very little improvement why not since z77/3770k isn't really any more expensive than z68/2600k.

Might I also recommend a CaseLabs M8 if you're watercooling three 680s and your CPU. You'll want to have multiple large radiators.

I concur with everything Kitty says here but I do want to add: the 4gb cards will work better @ 7680x1600 due to the fact that the GPU memory doesn't stack (3 2gb cards is still 2gb) and many of the tests that HardOCP have run on Nvidia GPU's show that at higher resolutions that becomes the limiting factor.
 
I concur with everything Kitty says here but I do want to add: the 4gb cards will work better @ 7680x1600 due to the fact that the GPU memory doesn't stack (3 2gb cards is still 2gb) and many of the tests that HardOCP have run on Nvidia GPU's show that at higher resolutions that becomes the limiting factor.

That it does.
 
1) As for video cards, any with a 3 yr warranty that's transferable (or serial based) is good. EVGA has some additional perks, such as advanced rma, step up etc, and have really good customer service.

I'm not even terribly concerned with a transferable warranty, since I'll either get a dual system chassis (like Caselabs' TH10D) and always keep the older system in the second half of the case or I'll just repurpose it to another family member after two or three years. (In other words, I probably won't be selling it to anyone).

I've primarily used EVGA, with an XFX here (for ATI) and an MSI there (though not in many years). I know the 670s apparently suffer a horrendous loud whining noise, but I don't know if that applies to the 680s. I also haven't used their RMA process on any of the cards or motherboards from them. In fact, this XFX RMA with the 5970 is the first time I've ever had to RMA a video card in fifteen years. I have to say that I definitely am partial to EVGA unless someone can offer a strong rational for going with ASUS or another.

2) You may want to wait and hold out for the 4GB cards if you really are going to play at 7680x1440. Most full coverage waterblocks will have a list of all the cards they fit. I know EK does.

I was thinking that, also. EVGA has a 4gb version out now (or will soon) for $630. That's $70 less than the waterblock version and $130 more than the 2gb and as per the [H] tri-sli shootout between the 680 and 7970, that was the one point where they ran into any problems. It's a good chunk of change when tripled, but I think it would reap a lot of benefits -- if I don't screw it up (this being my first time, I'm paranoid that I'm going to must massacre one or all three $700 cards and be screwed). Even if I have to spend another $150 per card on the manual watercooling (bringing each card to $780, for 4gb+WC).

3) No. Brands will not matter in this respect. SLI can be finicky because of game/driver issues.

I hoped as much, since they're all built off the same initial reference, but wasn't certain if their customizations included any sort of optimizations that would benefit matching with their own motherboards, too (though I guess EVGA still has some pretty solid boards these days). If that isn't the case, it's good to know there's more options available to me.


4) Ivy bridge all the way. You'll want pcie 3.0 for a tri-sli setup. Get the Intel tuning plan for $25 and don't worry about it, oc till your heart's content.

Thanks. That's the confirmation I was in need of. I'd read many discussions where it was suggested that 3.0 PCI-E was pointless for single card or dual SLI, but that it wasn't even really useful for triple SLI. I thought that sounded iffy. If that's the way to go, then it eases any point in considering a 2600K SB. I'll likely go with a 3770K IB, if I can find one (I guess "if I can find one" goes for this whole damn build... *sigh*).

I'd never even heard of the Intel Tuning plan. Cool. :D

5) Yes, and even if it is a very little improvement why not since z77/3770k isn't really any more expensive than z68/2600k.

Right. The only real benefit I'd seen discussed with sticking to SB was cooler temperatures, lower-ish price (if not now, then over time), and higher potential extreme overclocking. If I do watercooling, don't care if I have to spend an extra $50 or so, and am not going to be setting benchmark records, then IB *sounded* like the right choice. As with any big purchase or project, it's just so easy to get bogged don int he minutia of a few contrarian points of view and stall yourself. Gaah!

Anyway, thanks for the input. This definitely confirms and informs some of my own thoughts and gives me a good basis to build on.
 
Might I also recommend a CaseLabs M8 if you're watercooling three 680s and your CPU. You'll want to have multiple large radiators.

Doh! didn't see this
:) +1 for CaseLabs

Indeed. I initially planned on MountainMods, but have been convinced of the workmanship and more "finished" quality of Caselabs. The TH10 or TH10D (the dual system version) seems like a good way to go and with the top and bottom extensions you can add, should provide enough room for two or even three loops, I think?

I haven't ruled out an M8, though. As I finalize the components for the build, I'll have to seek out further advice from those who have experience with Caselabs as to whether one would suit my needs better than the other. Or, I guess I could always email Jim at Caselabs. I hear he's very responsive and helpful.
 
I think the ASUS P8Z77 WS would be a perfect fit for your needs.

3x30" monitors would be 7680x1600 BTW. The 27's are 2560x1440.

I was looking at the P8Z77 WS, too. It looks like that's what [H] used for the 680vs7970 tri-SLI testing.

As for the resolution - I have stubbornly stuck to 16:10, but it looks like 16:9 is the "future" (meh) and even the new Apple Cinema Displays are only 16:9 (and only 27", instead of 30"!), so I thought x1440 was the resolution for 16:9. Of course, I'm probably not splurging on any more Apple Cinema Displays, anyway. Especially after the money I'm sinking into this rig. I want to go with a nice three-monitor setup as large as possible, but with more realistic choice than Apple (which, to be fair, has held up beautifully . . . and should for the stupid expense).
 
I concur with everything Kitty says here but I do want to add: the 4gb cards will work better @ 7680x1600 due to the fact that the GPU memory doesn't stack (3 2gb cards is still 2gb) and many of the tests that HardOCP have run on Nvidia GPU's show that at higher resolutions that becomes the limiting factor.

Right, I was considering the 4gb cards EVGA does or will have out (though that'll add another $400), because of the results of the [H] testing. I wasn't quite aware of how the GPU memory worked, though. So while the processing power is (not quite) linearly compounded, the memory is not? By that, you mean that all of the memory on all of the cards is utilized, but compartmentalized, right? That is (and this is probably a clumsy analogy, but it's all I've got at the moment), they're still utilized as three separate hard drives would be, but not stacked as three drives would be in a RAID for a single larger accessible single block?
 
An additional question: The price is rapidly increasing. Especially if I go for the 4GB FTW 680s and not to mention if I go for the later 4GB HydroCopper FTW 680s. So, I'm wondering if right now might not be the time to go watercooling. And therein lies the question -- is the stock cooling and limitations of both the GPUs and the CPUs sufficient enough if I just do air-cooling and no overclocking? Or will the heat of the 3770K and three 680s just be too ridiculous?

I figure the cost of watercooling is going to run $1,200 - $1,400, easily and I suspect that going with the HydroCopper 4GB FTWs will not lower the price, but only reduce the amount of work I have to do when watercooling.

Another option could be going with dual cards (and perhaps still do watercooling or not) and buy a third later on. Only problem with that is the limited availability worries me. It looks like you'll be lucky to acquire *one* card, much less *two* (especially since EVGA is limiting purchases to ONE per household!). If I buy two now, for all I know, a month or three down the road, there won't be any more. Period. (I don't know what the expectation and history is on EVGA's premium line cards, like the Signature, Hydro, FTW, etc has been . . . are they a limited run that is quick and done or do they keep making them for some time to come?).

I swear, the limited availability of *everything* this year is damn frustrating and seems to push one toward either premature over-purchasing out of fear of missing out or indefinite delay for fear of expense and hoping the next big release is plentiful.
 
And therein lies the question -- is the stock cooling and limitations of both the GPUs and the CPUs sufficient enough if I just do air-cooling and no overclocking? Or will the heat of the 3770K and three 680s just be too ridiculous?
If you use a 3rd party HSF (even one of those all-in-one liquid coolers like the Corsair H80/H100) and have a case that has side fans over the GPU area and have good cooling in general, temperatures shouldn't be too much of an issue.
 
If you use a 3rd party HSF (even one of those all-in-one liquid coolers like the Corsair H80/H100) and have a case that has side fans over the GPU area and have good cooling in general, temperatures shouldn't be too much of an issue.

The H50 I have on a current box from a couple years ago did well enough, so I wouldn't have anything against an H100 (though I hear a lot of criticism about them). I hated the difficulty of setting the tiny radiator into push/pull and finding a place to stick it, but loved how little space it took up. Made the case feel roomier. If I go air, I'll go with the Noctua NH-D14. If I go for a lower end case (as in, not Caselabs) I'll probably go for Coolermaster's Cosmos 2. Though it introduces a cabling mess, it has space for either two or four 120mms on the door.

In the end, I guess that depends on how much the Caselabs box will cost me. I know it starts out just under $500, but throw in the extra mods and components you need for it (casters, cages, filters, etc) and you're looking at a fairly steep price. Then again, the Cosmos 2 is already $350 - so maybe I will just eat it anyway and buy the Caselabs. Have a sweet Caselabs now and go all air and when I do my next build, I'll use the money I'd apply to a sweet new chassis (since I'll already have the caselabs) and put it toward watercooling.

I think if it were just a matter of watercooling for my first time OR the expense of this insane build (did I mention I'd ideally like to go with three 27" or 30" displays?), I would do it... But combining the two . . . I would have to throw myself off an overpass if I did something wrong and butchered thousands of dollars due to some watercooling n00b mistake.

I know I could probably put it together and find someone in the Denver area to do the watercooling for a price (kind of like the work Tom Logan of OC3D does, but locally) --- less risk of screwing up, but then I don't learn a damn thing. :)
 
considering ur budget you might consider a lga 2011 system since you are doing tri sli .the extra pcie lanes might help.
 
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