Advantage of Broadwell-E over Haswell-E?

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tzl99

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Hi all,
I'm going to put together a new system this summer, and setup my current i7-2600K @4.7GHz as a system for the family/kids. I was awaiting Broadwell-E but I have to say that what I've read so far is somewhat underwhelming. Still, I'm going to move forward and get a X99 system. I never expected my current system to last this long when I built it and before building it I used to build new systems every 2-3 years (usually under 2.5 yrs). Since I don't see any major improvements coming, I'm pretty sure I'm going to keep my next system 5-6 years at minimum and so I decided to go X99 this time and try to take advantage of a few more cores and quad channel memory. While my system spends most of its time gaming, I use 1-2 VMs at generally light duty, and spend a few hours a weekend compressing 1080P videos, so I wanted a bit of a bump.

But even though I've read a 1/2 dozen reviews, I'm not sure what Broadwell-E really brings to the table over Haswell-E? This is what I have so far:

1. Slight clockspeed advantage for equivalent parts (100-200MHz), but then this is irrelevant by over clocking and it does seem Haswell-E overclocks better. Or maybe its my perception, but it seems that Broadwell-E overclocks I've seen on-line stop at about 4.2-4.3 GHz (I'm looking at 6 core) but the Haswell-E seem to be at 4.5 or better?
2. Slight IPC advantage of BD-E over HS-E, but again offset by the overclocking advantage of the latter.
3. DDR4-2400 native support vs 2133, but it doesn't seem that matters with good memory and using XMP settings.
4. AVX offsets for BD-E, though I'm not sure what benefit that gives me now?
5. Turbomax 3, but with overclocking I think that does not matter either.
6. Perhaps lower energy consumption of BD-E over HS-E at stock settings, but with overclocking energy consumption shoots up with both. I had thought BD-E with the smaller process might have more overclocking headroom, but that doesn't seem to be true.

So, obviously, anyone with a Haswell-E system doesn't even need to think about Broadwell-E, unless someone needs 10 cores. But for someone like me with Sandybridge (non-E) and looking to buy new, what am I missing if I buy Haswell-E and pair it with a new X99 refreshed motherboard, vs buying Broadwell-E?

Before someone says I shouldn't get a new system, I know I don't NEED a new system, but I WANT one. This has been a fun hobby for me for the last 22-23 years and I never expected this level of stagnation. I have an itch to build a new system and I want to scratch it. I figure I've saved up on not upgrading 2-3 years ago so spending some more on HEDT vs mainstream is ok with me now. Thanks for any pointers or advice!

Louie.
 
I suppose my immediate question is what compelling reason is there to opt for Haswell E over Broadwell E.

While yes, there are probably not any appreciable differences between the two chips, the latter does offer some marginal (albeit, not noticeable) improvements. Haswell E may overclock slightly better (it wasn't all that great of an overclocker), but I don't think your going to notice a 200mhz difference.

Unless you can buy Haswell E at a discount, I would go for Broadwell - if only for the piece of mind of being on the "latest and greatest" tech.

Or, if you can tough it out with your Sandybridge for a couple more months, see what Zen is going to bring to the table.
 
Either one is a good choice.

You might be able to pick up a used Haswell-e chip for quite a bit cheaper to sweeten the deal.
 
Thanks guys,
I guess I was under the impression that the 6-core HS-E parts overclocked a lot better than BD-E. If so, that would overcome their slightly lower IPC. I look at user's sigs, on this forum and others, and so many 5820/5930 chips seem to run at 4.5-4.7GHz compared to the BD-Es that seem to run at 4.1-4.2. Though the latter is just for the 6950X mainly. I can't seem to find much data for the 6800K/6850K. I was hoping the 6-cores would clock better, but I'm not sure they do, or perhaps there is not much interest in them so posts are few. Also, with the binning process perhaps the 6-core Broadwells are really at the bottom? The best chips may be sold as 6950X/6900? Just speculation on my part.

I am interested in Zen, but I just can't imagine AMD pulling off something spectacular after the disappointments of the last couple of years. I hope I'm wrong as I've built 3 AMD systems in the past and would build a future one if they become competitive again. I certainly don't want to see any more of an Intel monopoly than they are now. The reason I'm trying to build now is not just that I want to, but the family machine (Q9450 @3.2GHz) is giving up the ghost. I'm getting weird random errors and problems that I'm attributing to the motherboard. It's an 8+ year old system so it will give up at some point. Lately, I've even set it to defaults and I still get the same errors. So I will retire that system once I get a new system and hand down my current system that is running great.

As for used HS-Es, I'm a little wary about buying someone else's overclocked processors. First, I'm not sure how much it would save in the grand scheme of things since this system will be new from the bottom up. It looks like my costs are going to be about $2000 when it is all done, and saving a couple hundred (and I don't think I'll even save that much) on a used 6-Core may not matter for a system that I'm hoping to keep 5-6+ years. It's one thing to buy a used Xeon taken from a retired server that was likely run at stock speeds for a couple of years, but to buy someone's personal overclocked system? I would always be paranoid that something is wrong with it.

I don't feel the need that I need to buy HS-E over BD-E other than I thought it would be faster. Never in the past would I have considered buying a chip based on 2 year old technology. But seeing such tiny incremental gains, it is a viable thing now. But, yeah, if I thought HS-E and BD-E were roughly equivalent, I would probably just buy BD-E. Thanks for the responses!

Louie.
 
Broadwell's biggest advantage was the cache and iGPU, the E variants biggest advantage is the 10 core and better TDP ratings.

Since the platform is the same you aren't getting much else.
 
I have a 6850K and its running at 4400Mhz with 1.28 volts keeping it cool with a Corsair 110IGT full @ 28C idle to mid 40s in games. I can push it a little more i think but not sure how many Volts i can push thru it. My gaming has been a huge jump with 2 GTX 1080s in sli. Coming from my 2600K@4800Mhz there is a huge jump in games and i had the 1080s in the 2600K setup. Just switching the cards over and at 400Mhz slower i picked up 30 to 40 FPS in games like Crysis 3 and Doom. BF4 at 3440X1440 Max is getting 180FPS Plus lol.
 
To Michaelius, thanks for the response. I should update my location as I am in the US, though my sister is in Canada and just a couple of hours away. But neither country is on the list.

To Marcdaddy, thanks for the info. Running at 4.4 with 1.28 V is great. Looks like you got a good chip. I would be more than pleased with the same outcome. I saw your posts in another thread. You're using the MSI X99 Gaming Pro carbon, correct? Are you having any troubles with it? Also how do you find the Corsair cooler? Do you find it loud?

When I was putting together a parts list, I was thinking of your cooler vs a Kraken X61 but it looks like my case, Fractal Design Define R5, may have trouble with that size cooler and modern MBs. I think with my case I'm limited to 240 mm coolers vs a Noctua NH-D15 or equivalent. I need to read more reviews of the Noctua as it seems great (though huge) but I don't know which can dissipate more heat. In any case, I don't think I can fit a big AIO cooler. Of course, I could probably buy another case (since it is actually the least expensive component of my build, lol) and save the Fractal Design for a future smaller build. Thanks for your vids!

Louie.
 
Looks like physics performance on the bwe is much better than hwe. So if you are more gaming then using all cores for productivity the bwe will give a slight bump for games closer to skylake 6700k just cant oc as well so for just gaming only 6700k as most recommend. I plan on doing some adobe cc stuff as a hobby so 6 cores is worth it. Also ram speed is faster with bwe but ram speed usually doesnt have a big impact in anything. But if you are doing more productivity then gaming the hwe with higher oc speed will have better multicore performance
 
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