Admit it, the polaris launch is more exciting than pascal

tybert7 said:
Like I've said before, I don't think amd gcn will ever be as efficient as nvidia gpus, even after accounting for different fabs. Because AMD packs more "stuff" onto their cards. polaris has two hardware schedulers, is there an equivalent on pascal cards? That alone take additional power, and who knows what else is on the board that draws more resources from nvidias more stripped down gpus.


That's not the worst thing ever, we saw that the initial strength of a stripped down design with maxwell had real costs in dx12 performance and concurrent graphics/compute workloads. I still don't think pascal can do the latter, but from what I read the penalties are far less severe due to better preemption of the gpu workload (or something, not exactly sure what is going on that is so different with pascal, maybe it's just high clocks). And that is the rub, it's OK to have a gpu design that is inherently more power hungry if you GET something for that power. AMD did in the gcn vs maxwell and earlier matchups, even with the nvidia defenders lying about 970s all the way to the end, but with pascal? We are not seeing the advantage there aside from select games like hitman.


None of this matters at the moment, amd still completely dominates the sub 300 dollar segment, and the custom AIB cards will likely push polaris past 980/390x levels, but where will the 1060 lie?

Going off the guesswork in raw cuda cores and rumored die size, will it be around 2/3 the performance of a 1070? (that would put it ~ between a 390/390x) or higher? Who knows.


If we go by the shady/blundering die size math people like ledra threw up, then it might be as high as 75-80% of a 1070. We'll see soon enough.
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Since when did AMD dominate the sub $300 range? Also does that mater, and is it that large of a market? Because if it that large how is Nvidia share so much higher than AMD? Lastly where in the world did we get the idea a card that can barely outperform a 970 will outperform a 980?
 
Presbytier said:
Since when did AMD dominate the sub $300 range? Also does that mater, and is it that large of a market? Because if it that large how is Nvidia share so much higher than AMD? Lastly where in the world did we get the idea a card that can barely outperform a 970 will outperform a 980?
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You must have missed the slide that showed that sub 300 dollars was over 80% of the market. If that is true than yes it does matter.

As for outperforming a 980, talking about the custom AIB cards, the ones that will target 1400-1500+. A card that hits 1500 will be around an 18% overclock. a 980 is around 15-20% faster than a 970. Seems perfectly likely there will be polaris cards that can match a 980 at least. And this is talking about non optimized games that don't take best advantage of dx12 like hitman (tomb raider is apparently not as effective)


But look at the rx 480 against a 980 in hitman:

AMD Radeon RX 480 Review


maxwell scales so poorly in dx12 (well optimized titles at least), that even near stock rx 480s can take it



So once the AIB cards hit the market for say, 280/299 that are roughly on par with a 980 in standard games, and radically dart ahead of crippled maxwell in properly coded dx12 titles, there is no reason to buy ANY maxwell part sub 300 dollars.

Not a 970
Not a 980
Not a 960
Not a 950 ti

NOTHING in that entire line makes ANY sense. Anyone saying otherwise, is either confused or lying.


The one hope there for nvidia, is the upcoming 1060. If it's 80% of a 1070, it will win, if it's only 2/3s, it's more of a toss up, and it will matter how well they do in more modern games.
 
tybert7 said:
You must have missed the slide that showed that sub 300 dollars was over 80% of the market. If that is true than yes it does matter.

As for outperforming a 980, talking about the custom AIB cards, the ones that will target 1400-1500+. A card that hits 1500 will be around an 18% overclock. a 980 is around 15-20% faster than a 970. Seems perfectly likely there will be polaris cards that can match a 980 at least. And this is talking about non optimized games that don't take best advantage of dx12 like hitman (tomb raider is apparently not as effective)


But look at the rx 480 against a 980 in hitman:

AMD Radeon RX 480 Review


maxwell scales so poorly in dx12 (well optimized titles at least), that even near stock rx 480s can take it



So once the AIB cards hit the market for say, 280/299 that are roughly on par with a 980 in standard games, and radically dart ahead of crippled maxwell in properly coded dx12 titles, there is no reason to buy ANY maxwell part sub 300 dollars.

Not a 970
Not a 980
Not a 960
Not a 950 ti

NOTHING in that entire line makes ANY sense. Anyone saying otherwise, is either confused or lying.


The one hope there for nvidia, is the upcoming 1060. If it's 80% of a 1070, it will win, if it's only 2/3s, it's more of a toss up, and it will matter how well they do in more modern games.
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So in other words hopes, dreams, and smoking too much weed. Expecting it to clock 18% seems like a stretch considering how it has a hard time hitting its boost clock as is (cooling alone won't fix that). Also nvidia still holds the lion share of the market, you don't give that up without a fight. I fully expect them to come out swinging.
 
Quite a mediocre launch I must say. Performance was over hyped. Acoustics are below par. If anything one should wait for non-reference 480s to hit the market. But by then the game might already be over for AMD since an impending launch for 1060 GTX is on the cards.
 
Presbytier said:
So in other words hopes, dreams, and smoking too much weed. Expecting it to clock 18% seems like a stretch considering how it has a hard time hitting its boost clock as is (cooling alone won't fix that). Also nvidia still holds the lion share of the market, you don't give that up without a fight. I fully expect them to come out swinging.
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Well you do realize that Nvidia sells premium products for premium prices. When Nvidia has problems with stock and problems with yields where does Pascal end up they want to be the company with large margins and not the low margins they have said that every time the AMD console deals came up and now they will battle for low margins all of a sudden , that makes no sense that they waste their expensive 16nm wafers on a budget version of Pascal ? You are not going to find Nvidia competing in the sub $200 market.
madgun said:
Quite a mediocre launch I must say. Performance was over hyped. Acoustics are below par. If anything one should wait for non-reference 480s to hit the market. But by then the game might already be over for AMD since an impending launch for 1060 GTX is on the cards.
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Mid range card no hype whatsoever except from some Nvidia monkeys spamming the AMD forums ...
$200 is a decent price , don't believe me check [H] review ...
 
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how amd can release a 14 nm card that's as power efficient as last-gen 28 nm cards is a mystery for the ages.
 
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Presbytier said:
So in other words hopes, dreams, and smoking too much weed. Expecting it to clock 18% seems like a stretch considering how it has a hard time hitting its boost clock as is (cooling alone won't fix that). Also nvidia still holds the lion share of the market, you don't give that up without a fight. I fully expect them to come out swinging.
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Tell that to Kyles AIB sources who, unlike you, actually have cards in hand with better cooler designs and can see with their own eyes.



First gaming benchmarks up
 
Pieter3dnow said:
Well you do realize that Nvidia sells premium products for premium prices. When Nvidia has problems with stock and problems with yields where does Pascal end up they want to be the company with large margins and not the low margins they have said that every time the AMD console deals came up and now they will battle for low margins all of a sudden , that makes no sense that they waste their expensive 16nm wafers on a budget version of Pascal ? You are not going to find Nvidia competing in the sub $200 market.


Mid range card no hype whatsoever except from some Nvidia monkeys spamming the AMD forums ...
$200 is a decent price , don't believe me check [H] review ...
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I love when simple statements can make AMD nut jobs so worked up. Puts a smile on my face every time that they would go many lengths to defend a company that seems to have less and less resources for innovation and QA.
 
Pieter3dnow said:
Well you do realize that Nvidia sells premium products for premium prices. When Nvidia has problems with stock and problems with yields where does Pascal end up they want to be the company with large margins and not the low margins they have said that every time the AMD console deals came up and now they will battle for low margins all of a sudden , that makes no sense that they waste their expensive 16nm wafers on a budget version of Pascal ? You are not going to find Nvidia competing in the sub $200 market.


Mid range card no hype whatsoever except from some Nvidia monkeys spamming the AMD forums ...
$200 is a decent price , don't believe me check [H] review ...
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I never said they would kill margins, but you would be naive to think they won't compete to keep market share.

tybert7 said:
Tell that to Kyles AIB sources who, unlike you, actually have cards in hand with better cooler designs and can see with their own eyes.



First gaming benchmarks up
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Did you miss the part where it is a GPU lottery, so expect a large premium. Also, performance to clock speed is not a linear path this thing has half the ROPs at 32 (compared to the 980 wich has 64), and that will handicap its performance in comparison especially at higher resolutions.
 
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Pieter3dnow said:
Mid range card no hype whatsoever except from some Nvidia monkeys spamming the AMD forums ...
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You did erm spot the title of the thread you are posting in? :p
That means you just called the op a monkey!
 
You know someone has lost the argument about GPUs when they have to cite AMD title performance in AMD vs Nvidia comparison as evidence.

That would be as smart as someone citing PCars reviews as evidence for nV being better, really.
Nenu said:
You did erm spot the title of the thread you are posting in? :p
That means you just called the op a monkey!
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Nvidia monkey at that.
 
Presbytier said:
So in other words hopes, dreams, and smoking too much weed. Expecting it to clock 18% seems like a stretch considering how it has a hard time hitting its boost clock as is (cooling alone won't fix that). Also nvidia still holds the lion share of the market, you don't give that up without a fight. I fully expect them to come out swinging.
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Nothing wrong with weed my friend. Other than that you're spot on.
 
madgun said:
I love when simple statements can make AMD nut jobs so worked up. Puts a smile on my face every time that they would go many lengths to defend a company that seems to have less and less resources for innovation and QA.
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Awkward that you ignore everything but then again what do you know about Polaris ?

Nenu said:
You did erm spot the title of the thread you are posting in? :p
That means you just called the op a monkey!
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Didn't call anyone a monkey :)
 
Anyway guys, I've been meaning to crack this joke for a while...


***drumroll***

As far as hype goes, I agree, the Polaris launch is more exciting than Pascal. I give it 17/15 on the hype factor xD
 
Ieldra said:
Anyway guys, I've been meaning to crack this joke for a while...


***drumroll***

As far as hype goes, I agree, the Polaris launch is more exciting than Pascal. I give it 17/15 on the hype factor xD
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You mean it is revolting that you can actually buy cards in the shop instead of having to purchase them from Ebay ?
 
Pieter3dnow said:
You mean it is revolting that you can actually buy cards in the shop instead of having to purchase them from Ebay ?
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Saltiest comment EU.

17/15 for salt.

Also; out of stock everywhere, and nice pricing
cLvGZHt.png
 
Ieldra said:
Saltiest comment EU.

17/15 for salt.
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I like his enthusiasm .. Will give him that lol

Yeah you can find many 480s in stores and even more returned ones in a few week's time when AIB 480s and 1060 GTX come out.
 
madgun said:
I like his enthusiasm .. Will give him that lol

Yeah you can find many 480s in stores and even more returned ones in a few week's time when AIB 480s and 1060 GTX come out.
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Regardless of the price/performance and quality of the product, AMD has done a great job (so far, we are one day in) at stocking the shelves with product and avoiding the founders edition controversy. Pending adequate AIB supply, their supply chain could be an example for NVIDIA to learn from. Yes, this assumes the 1070/1080 shortage is mor supply than demand based, which may not be true.
 
Napoleon said:
Regardless of the price/performance and quality of the product, AMD has done a great job (so far, we are one day in) at stocking the shelves with product and avoiding the founders edition controversy. Pending adequate AIB supply, their supply chain could be an example for NVIDIA to learn from. Yes, this assumes the 1070/1080 shortage is mor supply than demand based, which may not be true.
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Can't find any in stock here, like every graphics card launch ever
 
Pieter3dnow said:
Didn't call anyone a monkey :)
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You dont seem to understand much of what you write.
You even deny Leldras proof lol.
I can clarify it for you if that will help but first, explain why you think that.
 
Nenu said:
You dont seem to understand much of what you write.
You even deny Leldras proof lol.
I can clarify it for you if that will help but first, explain why you think that.
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He did not specifically call anyone a monkey. However, if you want to point out who he is specifically referring too, I would be happy to see it. Also, most of the spamming has been occurring from the green camp fans like they have a stake in the green company. Must be sad to base your day to day feelings and life on how well your favorite company is doing well putting others down for not choosing the green one. :D

Me, if I did not already have what I have, I would like to get 2 of these for some EMA fun. Alas, PC game developers are lazy and have decided it is not worth supporting the community anymore.
 
ManofGod said:
He did not specifically call anyone a monkey. However, if you want to point out who he is specifically referring too, I would be happy to see it. Also, most of the spamming has been occurring from the green camp fans like they have a stake in the green company. Must be sad to base your day to day feelings and life on how well your favorite company is doing well putting others down for not choosing the green one. :D

Me, if I did not already have what I have, I would like to get 2 of these for some EMA fun. Alas, PC game developers are lazy and have decided it is not worth supporting the community anymore.
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When he said anyone it was not singular.
His initial statement said Monkeys, not singular.

Interesting you speak of spamming.
I didnt ask you anything.
 
On topic thread or a closed thread? Take your pick.
 
Well, the pascal launch was boring for me since I was not invited and did not get a free card. :D
 
The Polaris launch was interesting, that's for sure. And extrapolating on what Tybert was saying, here's my take.

Performance, lowest to highest:

GTX 970 (stock)
RX 480 (stock)/AIB 970
GTX 980 (stock)/AIB 480
AIB 980

So yes, I do expect stock 980 performance from the AIB 480s over the next month or two. The problem with that is two-fold.
1) Most 980s aren't stock, so performance won't match the 980s you typically see.
2) By the time they're out we may see the 1060 as well.

This launch was a double edged sword for AMD. On the positive side, they had massive sales volume from all indicators. Additionally, the card performs very well (970/390 performance at or near $200 is a win). On the negative side, their "hot and power hungry" reputation didn't go away, but instead got boltered by that horrible reference cooler, and their PCI-E power draw issues (I won't expand on this, as we have several other threads discussing it in better detail). So yes, it was an interesting launch.
 
Daniel_Chang said:
The Polaris launch was interesting, that's for sure. And extrapolating on what Tybert was saying, here's my take.

Performance, lowest to highest:

GTX 970 (stock)
RX 480 (stock)/AIB 970
GTX 980 (stock)/AIB 480
AIB 980

So yes, I do expect stock 980 performance from the AIB 480s over the next month or two. The problem with that is two-fold.
1) Most 980s aren't stock, so performance won't match the 980s you typically see.
2) By the time they're out we may see the 1060 as well.

This launch was a double edged sword for AMD. On the positive side, they had massive sales volume from all indicators. Additionally, the card performs very well (970/390 performance at or near $200 is a win). On the negative side, their "hot and power hungry" reputation didn't go away, but instead got boltered by that horrible reference cooler, and their PCI-E power draw issues (I won't expand on this, as we have several other threads discussing it in better detail). So yes, it was an interesting launch.
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And the story is not even CLOSE to being over!

polaris powergate!
polaris AIB cards!

rumors from Kyle with his contacts that the AIB cards can get high 1400s to into the 1500s

And that last actually puts Kyle into a new light/role.

Many saw Kyle Bennet as a doomsayer prophet against amd... and he kind of was. But with that contact that shows that the AIB cards CAN clock much higher, he was also the oracle of hope.

Polaris is dropped into a space of having to take on orders of magnitude more video cards compared to the 1070/1080, those cards are floating in the sky near the clouds, clear skies with jetstreams at their back. Polaris has to crawl through a Jurassic park style jungle and survive.


The biggest enemy of the 480, is the 1060. AMD needs to triple the efforts of optimizations for games like deus ex mankind divided, they need to make sure that game has the kind of performance boosts of hitman, and repeat that again and again.
 
tybert7 said:
Rumors from Kyle with his contacts that the AIB cards can get high 1400s to into the 1500s

And that last actually puts Kyle into a new light/role.

Many saw Kyle Bennet as a doomsayer prophet against amd... and he kind of was. But with that contact that shows that the AIB cards CAN clock much higher, he was also the oracle of hope.
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Let's not get carried away here. Kyle said he was told limited numbers of chips on AIB boards with better cooling could OC better. I would still expect a healthy power hit on those select boards.
 
Stereodude said:
Let's not get carried away here. Kyle said he was told limited numbers of chips on AIB boards with better cooling could OC better. I would still expect a healthy power hit on those select boards.
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Some guy on G3D called Onna claims he went to "some lab" with "better testing equipment than reviewer" and measured 80-117w power draw on the RX480 xD The concerted effort to "cover up" the power issues is getting more out of hand by the day, this has been verified by what, at least 15 reviews now ? >160W.

I know I say this often, but I will poop in my hat if a ~1450mhz rx480 uses less than ~220w
 
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