Added two extra RAM sticks, frequencies go WAY down (XMP crashes)

Discussion in 'Memory' started by Bageland2000, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. Bageland2000

    Bageland2000 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    278
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    So I'm running an ASUS C7H motherboard with a 2700X. I had two sticks of Team 3200MHz 8GB. I was hitting 3333MHz CL18 @ 1.4v. Now...I know that adding extra DIMMs usually results in lower timings, but I can't even get a few seconds into Windows now at DOCP/XMP settings. I tried down-clocking to 3000MHz and even a few steps lower and nope, crash. The only thing that's currently working is JEDEC standard clocks.

    Is this bad of a drop typical, or did I get a few dud sticks? I'm thinking of returning the RAM, as right now the added capacity is not at all worth the drop in speeds (or are the frequencies relatively minor as far as performance goes?) I'm going to keep messing with settings, but I wanted to get feelers out there and figure out what people think. Should I try to get a better set of DIMMs?
     
  2. TheMadHatterXxX

    TheMadHatterXxX 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,858
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    When I went from 2 to 4 sticks I had to lower the speed from 3200 to 2666 and bump up my voltage a bit. If I was you I'd return them and go with 2x16.
     
    Bageland2000 and Master_shake_ like this.
  3. Bageland2000

    Bageland2000 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    278
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Well, one of the sets is far past the return time. I guess I can test the new set alone to see what type of speeds I can get to figure out if it's the RAM or just the reality of going 4x8GB. If the new set is noticeably worse, maybe I'll return that and order another pair down the road to try my luck..
     
  4. NoOther

    NoOther [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,118
    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Are all 4 sticks the same exact RAM? Or did you buy slightly different RAM than your first set? It also could be it doesn't have enough voltage to run at the overclocked speeds when feeding 4 RAM banks. Try gradually increasing the voltage to the RAM banks, be careful not to pump too much voltage through though. If all 4 work, going at stock speeds is still probably better overall with the extra RAM than getting that extra speed bump and only running with 2. If you really want the best of both, the best solution is to get a pair of larger RAM sticks. That is what I ended up doing with my older ASUS ROG Maximus. I have 2 16GB sticks.
     
  5. dvsman

    dvsman 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,365
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2009
    Check your mobo manual. For me, I just finished a x470 Taichi build and had trouble running 4 sticks too. Looked in the manual and it basically said "officially" 2 sticks tops out at 2933 and 4 sticks at 2133. Of course like everything, YMMV but when I went to 2 sticks, I could get faster ram speeds up and stable.
     
  6. Azrak

    Azrak Gawd

    Messages:
    678
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2015
    Try the latest BIOS if you haven't already.
     
  7. Bageland2000

    Bageland2000 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    278
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    They're 100% the exact same kit.

    What's absolute max voltage I want to set safely? I had the two sticks of 3200 running 3333 at 1.4.
     
  8. Bageland2000

    Bageland2000 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    278
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Oh wow, I had no idea the significance of how big the published gap was... Those numbers are huge. I'll check my manual.
     
  9. Bageland2000

    Bageland2000 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    278
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    It's on the latest.
     
  10. NoOther

    NoOther [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,118
    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    For voltage you would want to consult the specification for that RAM kit.
     
  11. Bageland2000

    Bageland2000 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    278
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Specs say 1.2-1.4, but people pump more voltage into CPUs all the time and those are fine. Wondering if there's a way to get some user-driven data on how much voltage they can reliably take.
     
  12. Bageland2000

    Bageland2000 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    278
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Oops! Never mind. New BIOS as of three days ago.
     
    Azrak likes this.
  13. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett Editor-in-Chief HardOCP Staff Member

    Messages:
    51,873
    Joined:
    May 18, 1997
    Update chipset drivers too.

    I have found 1.5v is ok for most ddr4.
     
  14. Bageland2000

    Bageland2000 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    278
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    OK, the chipset drivers were pretty out of date. Thanks for that suggestion!

    I've had some success moving to 2T command rate. I've tested up to 2933 so far and at first boot it seems stable at 1.4v
     
  15. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett Editor-in-Chief HardOCP Staff Member

    Messages:
    51,873
    Joined:
    May 18, 1997
    Don't be afraid to push to 1.45v. FWIW, you will find that a lot 4200MHz+ RAM is spec'd at 1.5v. A little airflow is all you need. Also, 1T command is almost a given on all the RAM overclocks I have done on AMD systems.
     
    pendragon1 and dragonstongue like this.
  16. Bageland2000

    Bageland2000 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    278
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    OK, it's the second set of RAM. I pulled the 1st set, and plugged the new set into the primary DIMM pair slots. I can't get it stable past 2600Mhz. Then I put the original set back in- stable at 3333Mhz.

    Can I RMA/return RAM for this reason? Seems like if it won't hit anywhere near the advertised speeds standing on its own, I should be able to return no issues.
     
  17. primetime

    primetime [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,414
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2005
    of course you can rma them for that exact reason.;)
     
    Bageland2000 likes this.
  18. Bageland2000

    Bageland2000 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    278
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    OK, quickly got a NewEgg RMA and return shipping label free of charge. Thanks to you and everyone who helped me through this issue!

    Now, here's to hoping the replacement specs are inline with the rated speeds. I'm reading a lot of reviews that say that their kits don't reach 3200 either.
     
  19. dragonstongue

    dragonstongue 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,991
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    I hate that they do this...if 2 slots, 4 slots, or 8 slots IMO they should be able to all be populated at X speed or above, not have to slow them down and ramp up volts.

    I hate that noise LOL..2x4gb for DDR2, 2x8gb for DDR3, 2x16gb DDR4 are "happy mediums" for getting the raw speed as well as enough capacity without running into weird "walls" ^.^

    Hell if RAM were not so pricey my next build would be 2x32gb at 3200 CL14-16 1.35v ^.^ o_O but likely even the 2x16gb will be pricey :(
     
    dvsman likes this.
  20. Bageland2000

    Bageland2000 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    278
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Alright second set came in, same problems. Also, though I've had really positive experiences with NewEgg in the past, I'm pretty confident this was an open box item. The seal on the box was peeled off

    This is a 3200 RAM pair. I set D.O.C.P. and had to dial back from 3200 all the way to 2800 before it would even boot. Again, the exact same serial number set I got originally will boot at 3333 no problems. I understand there are variances among RAM sticks, but two out of three that won't boot anywhere near published speeds is a little confusing/frustrating. Advice time: what would you do? Roll the dice on a third set and hope I get a good one? Contact NewEgg directly and talk to them?
     
  21. MikeRotch

    MikeRotch Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    388
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2013
    I had 2 sticks of G Skill F4-3200C14D-16GVK (3200MHZ CAS 14 2x8 GB) on a MSI Gaming Carbon Pro with a 2700x.

    If I used XMP I could not get them to run at 3200, only at 2933. Using the Ryzen DRAM Calculator I was finally able to get them to run at 3200. I needed more RAM since I started running a couple of VMs on my server so I ordered 2 more sticks. Using all 4 sticks, the RAM would not run at 3200 MHz no matter what tweaks I did. But they still work at 2933 using XMP. I did the same thing you did and just ran the 2 new sticks as a test at 3200 and it worked. But I needed all 4 sticks so now I am living with running my RAM at 2933 instead of the rated 3200.

    For you, I can't explain why two of of the three won't run at the rated speed. I just told this anecdote to let you know that even if it is some bad sticks you got, and you change them for new ones, you still might have to settle for reduced timing.
     
  22. Bageland2000

    Bageland2000 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    278
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Gotcha, thanks. Yeah I know that I might have to reduce speeds/timing, but I don't want to start with poor quality sticks before I even load all four up.

    Plus, I'm thinking NewEgg replaced the RMA with "refurbished" RAM, which is probably just other people's returns that suffer from the exact same issues.
     
  23. primetime

    primetime [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,414
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2005
    Ill be honest with you......even if you managed to get the rma thru the manufacturer and get the exact same sticks, theres still no guaranty your board will run stable at 3200 with 4 sticks.....cause it could just be a thing with your motherboard using 4 banks....

    myself thinks the performance hit is probably not worth all the fuss being made....only true way is to start over with 2 sticks only for the amount of memory you require..id just down clock it as mike said and go with it unless i was felling OCD

    newegg is going to keep sending open boxes since they get this shit every day and hopefully it woks for the next customer lol
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  24. Bageland2000

    Bageland2000 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    278
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Yeah that's what I expected and it seems like good advice. Maybe I'll just to a refund and wait for RAM prices to keep falling and try again later. I honestly don't need the extra capacity right now; much of it is me obsessing over a brand new build.
     
  25. Bageland2000

    Bageland2000 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    278
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    I just got a refund RMA from NewEgg. I'm going to hangout with my working 16GB and upgrade down the road if prices make it worth it.
     
  26. RFGuy_KCCO

    RFGuy_KCCO [H]ard DCOTM x3

    Messages:
    808
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2006
    In my experience, the Integrated Memory Controller on the CPU has much more to do with how many sticks you can run, as well as the speed and timings of those sticks, than the motherboard or the RAM itself. It’s very possible a different 2700x could run all four of your sticks together at 3333 without issue.

    For example, I own five different computers that are all identical builds: TR 1950X, Asus Strix X399-E Gaming, 4x8GB g.skill DDR4-3200 14-14-14-34. On four of these machines, I can run the RAM at its rated speed and timings without a problem. One rig will only be stable if I run the memory at 2933, instead of 3200. Since I have multiple identical components, I have done some swapping of parts to test and the bottom line is that one ThreadRipper refuses to run 4 sticks at 3200. In my case, the 1950X is only rated for DDR4-2666, so I can’t really complain. In your case, the 2700X is rated for DDR4-2933, so anything more than that is gravy.
     
  27. dasa

    dasa Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    278
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Your System is made to work with 4 sticks minimum being ThreadRipper it would take a large performance hit with two sticks just as Ryzen would take a large hit from one stick at which point yes the memory controller is the most important factor assuming the BIOS isn't just crap.
    To compare you would need to run ThradRipper with 8 sticks vs 4 on Ryzen and this is the point where MB quality has the largest impact on the max frequency with extra sticks.

    At least for now who knows maybe Ryzen II will handle 4 sticks much better.
     
  28. SamuelL421

    SamuelL421 [H]Lite

    Messages:
    86
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2016
    I wonder if the two sets you had of the Team ram each had different memory dies? I looked at some of that memory when it was on sale and saw that some was supposedly SK / hynix and some was samsung.
     
  29. Bageland2000

    Bageland2000 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    278
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    This is the first comment I think that gets at the purpose of my post. Will I possibly have to downclock the RAM with 4 sticks? Of course. But we're talking two sticks of exactly the same model number in the EXACT same system.

    Makes sense if they're pumping out different ICs. I wish there was a really easy way to figure out which it was on which kit.
     
  30. SamuelL421

    SamuelL421 [H]Lite

    Messages:
    86
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2016
    There is a tool for that, it's called Taiphoon burner (http://www.softnology.biz/), you only need the freeware version. Run it and from the top menu go under "EEPROM", from there select one of the "Read SPD from ... options" (should be one representing each stick on your board). It will then display a report on the settings that includes the manufacturer, type of memory die, if the memory is single or dual rank (important for max OC...), etc...

    Also once you have read back the info from the memory, it is worthwhile to use the Export button to save an HTML report of the info for later. You can then take that data and import it into Ryzen DRAM calculator as a baseline for getting the max clocks.
     
    Bageland2000 likes this.