Activision Notes Industry-Wide Downturn In Pre-Orders

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What could possible be the cause of an "industry-wide downturn" in pre-orders? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the downturn is caused by RST. Repeatedly Shipping Turds.

Publishers have long used pre-orders to help work out how popular their games will be, and to convince shops to stock their shelves with their products. They often encourage gamers to pre-order by offering exclusive content. Indeed the recent Destiny beta was initially restricted to those who had pre-ordered the game. But it seems the influence of pre-orders may be on the slide.
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Steve said:
... I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the downturn is caused by RST. Repeatedly Shipping Turds.
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I don't think this is a limb, but a substantial part of the trunk.

You can only burn people so many times.

That number of times is apparently Much Higher than I thought for most people, but I digress. :)

My last preorder was DNF; I knew it would be bad, just not that bad.

The last few Main Line Games I got free with a video card I bought anyway; it didn't even cost extra.

Crysis2, FarCry3, Dirt, borderlands; out of all of them, I only finished Crysis2.

FC3 sucked balls.
 
Here's a tip to the publishers....if you quit delivering shit games perhaps more people will be willing to pre-order. Right now.....it's once bitten, twice shy for a lot of gamers.
 
It could also be the crazy tactics used to sell pre-orders. "Pre-order x and get y!!!" "Company Z PREORDER EXCLUSIVE!!!"

That crap pisses me off. I went to Gamestop a few weeks ago and all I was doing was looking for a used copy of a Nintendo 3DS game and the cashier kept trying to push Battlefield:Hardline pre-order and I would get a free money clip. After I turned him down twice, he badgered me a 3rd time about it. I told him "Here is my wallet. I don't need a money clip nor do I want that game. I have said no twice already, that is why I am now putting my wallet back in my pocket and taking my business elsewhere."
 
Scythe said:
Here's a tip to the publishers....if you quit delivering shit games perhaps more people will be willing to pre-order. Right now.....it's once bitten, twice shy for a lot of gamers.
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Why would they have the incentive to do that if they already have your money? :eek:
 
too much garbage last few years so nobody wants to pre order. wait for the reviews first.

also why even bother? you can always buy it on steam and have it release day without any worry of the store running out of copies. wasn't that the whole point of pre order?
 
While RST is a big part of the problem, I think another major issue is the preorder DLC crap that is happening. Come on now a game like Watch Dogs needing a full page chart to show what is and isn't included with each preorder version of the game is absolutely idiotic. I was one of the ones that preordered it then saw the chart and canceled just on principle. I still haven't bought it and don't plan to till it's under 15 for a "complete" version. I am so tired of preorder DLC exclusive crap.
 
And yet those terrible, "casual indie" games from tiny developers are soaring.

Of course these days AAA is determined by a marketing budget, it sure as hell doesn't denote quality.

Of course, let's not forget that pre-orders have become a pretty foul thing as well. Bits of this and that from different retailers...

Hehe.. KSP is casual but Cawadoody isn't... Wow...
 
Maybe more money is going to Kickstart or Steam's Early Access, and there's only so much money to go around for "preorders"?
 
Last time I pre-ordered a game was Fallout New Vegas and that was a pretty bad at release.
 
Crappy games and the whole package of "exclusive pre-order content" that will be available to the whole world 3 months after release.
 
Hmm. The industry has made a habit of excessively hyping titles to garner big money from pre-orders based on trust built up from previous great offerings. Then, when we deliver something underwhelming, or outright CRAPPY, we lose that goodwill and trust, and people are more circumspect about how they dole out their money to us...

Man! Go figure!

:rolleyes:
 
People are tired of all this shovel-ware and not really excited about the releases anymore.
 
When "Pre-Order" stops being a way to "sell half-finished games sooner" it'll stop being a problem. When someone pre-orders a game they then feel was only partially completed (with the rest as paid DLC of course) they're gonna start disliking pre-orders.

You built up all this anticipation for...what?
 
I don't pre-order games because they usually cost more. The "pre-order discount" is usually a mark-up of about $10, for little more than some guaranteed trinket. Half the time, if the pre-order isn't too popular, you can get the bonus when you buy the game at release.

Plus, I honestly feel like pre-ordering is "cheating." It ruins that feeling of getting the store on launch day and getting a copy before they run out. It's boring to know that it's just reserved and waiting for me whenever I stroll in. I would rather fight and struggle for a game, if I'm going to get it around launch. Otherwise, I'd rather wait until it's been out a few month and the prices are lower. Either way, it's a better deal.
 
Agreed. I'll pre-order to support indy groups if I like an idea, that's about it. No longer playing to any of the big players BS any longer.
 
Good. Fuck them. Preorders are totally not worth while. These days games are shipped in half ass shape and take months to fix into "release" worthy states.

Fuck that entire "release and patch" system that everyone loves. I like my games functional on day one.
 
Preorders were originally created when games were in limited supply. That's been corrected years ago by simply producing more copies at launch. Today it's even more pointless when you have digital downloads. And since games come with DLC, it's always better to wait for the game to go on sale with the DLC content.
 
Bf4 pre-order was a joke - digital deluxe not being Premium? Then spend another chunk of change for that...and it's now a COD clone...goodbuy Sidney Shore...
 
Three reasons... they want too much for the game.. who wants to pay $60 for a game that's still in beta?
DLC bullshit keep chruning out those $5-$10 DLCs assholes
No one does demos anymore.
 
Godmachine said:
Good. Fuck them. Preorders are totally not worth while. These days games are shipped in half ass shape and take months to fix into "release" worthy states.

Fuck that entire "release and patch" system that everyone loves. I like my games functional on day one.
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I think the ubiquity of Internet access has made developers a bit lazier. When you know you can fix the game later and push updates to people easily, you don't have much incentive to get it right the first time.

Not to mention, people hate waiting on a game or seeing it delayed... so they probably end up caving and releasing games that probably shouldn't be out of beta. Especially given how long it takes to make games these days.

Ashbringer said:
Preorders were originally created when games were in limited supply. That's been corrected years ago by simply producing more copies at launch. Today it's even more pointless when you have digital downloads. And since games come with DLC, it's always better to wait for the game to go on sale with the DLC content.
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Yeah, I've noticed that in recent years, I'm surprisingly unopposed when walking into the GameStop on the launch date of a new game. I usually end up getting told that I'm the first customer they've seen today, and that I get the pre-order bonus just for showing up in person because they didn't meet their "pre-order quota" or something.

I suspect most people either have their pre-order mailed to them through Amazon, or just download it on Steam.
 
Preorders stop being a thing when game releases still saw shortages. Disc based games pretty much changed that and the only game I know of was FF7 where we saw shortages.

There is zero reason to preorder unless you want the ultra limited edition.
 
athenian200 said:
I think the ubiquity of Internet access has made developers a bit lazier. When you know you can fix the game later and push updates to people easily, you don't have much incentive to get it right the first time.

Not to mention, people hate waiting on a game or seeing it delayed... so they probably end up caving and releasing games that probably shouldn't be out of beta. Especially given how long it takes to make games these days.
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Its made them incredibly lazy. The amount of effort put into a release is now at least a factor slower than it was before patching could be used with ease and without great cost. In the past it use to cost tens of thousands of dollars to patch but now Microsoft and Sony have made it only cost a few hundred dollars which is nothing.

The sad part is that its a growing trend. Day 1 patches are just a "thing" and no longer a news piece unless they are unusually large (Sniper Elite 3 for instance) so its just acceptable to many people now.

I preferred consoles when they couldn't be patched except in extreme circumstances (day 1 crippling bug for instance). Now its birthing a culture of work ethic that involves putting off bugs until the game ships.

Which is why its great news to hear that Preorder culture is finally slowing down and hopefully dying out. Without preorders to lean on publishers/developers will have to work harder to estimate what the general audience is interested in which spurs better competition which works out better for us consumers.

This is probably the best news I've heard out of the gaming industry in some time.
 
My opinion, the industry killing off demo's means that people like me won't risk preordering a game based on hype alone.

Imo, companies waste time and resources trying to constantly direct and manipulate the market instead of providing a simple service and providing what the people actually desire.
 
athenian200 said:
I think the ubiquity of Internet access has made developers a bit lazier. When you know you can fix the game later and push updates to people easily, you don't have much incentive to get it right the first time.
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I would blame the devs less and management more. Devs may know they need more time and simply don't have it, since they're often not the ones who decides when a game ships. If upper management is deciding a game is shipping by X date, then the end, it has to ship, whether it's ready or not. It just has to be not COMPLETELY broken. Not saying there aren't lazy devs out there, but I would be quicker to blame unrealistic deadlines before a lack of trying.
 
1) Cut obscene marketing budget in half.
2) Use that money to actually finish the game.
3) Sell that complete game.
4) If game does really well, start on a true expansion pack or two.
5) Profit?

When I say real expansion pack, I mean something along the lines of F.E.A.R. Perseus Mandate, or Q2 The Reckoning, and not horse armor, or the game the dev wanted to ship but ran out of money/time.
 
next-Jin said:
Preorders stop being a thing when game releases still saw shortages. Disc based games pretty much changed that and the only game I know of was FF7 where we saw shortages.

There is zero reason to preorder unless you want the ultra limited edition.
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When games came in cartridges the supplies were limited. Back when Super Nintendo was around, that console actually put more powerful CPUs in the games than in the console itself, in what is essentially an overgrown memory stick. And you have to produce millions of these in a market that kept growing faster than expected. Wasn't until CDs and DVDs that you could just print the games like paper.

We kept the pre-order mentality for a very long time, considering we now have digital distributions, which is essentially games sitting on hard drives in some server somewhere. But companies love early money. Why you think a lot of companies try to get away with mail in rebates? While you're waiting for the money, that money is working for them in some way.
 
QUOTE=tetris42;1041007423]I would blame the devs less and management more. Devs may know they need more time and simply don't have it, since they're often not the ones who decides when a game ships. If upper management is deciding a game is shipping by X date, then the end, it has to ship, whether it's ready or not. It just has to be not COMPLETELY broken. Not saying there aren't lazy devs out there, but I would be quicker to blame unrealistic deadlines before a lack of trying.[/QUOTE]

Well, I meant to say publishers. I was thinking of the company as a whole. I have a bad habit of referring to the whole company as "the developers." I forget sometimes that it's more like a movie production with tons of bureaucracy, rather than a handful of people in a small building who just write code and make art.

I remember that computer games used to be made by much smaller companies... bigger than indie developers, but smaller than studios. The people in charge were the ones making the games. Sometimes I think they should go back to that. I'd like to see what a big company could do if it were run by the people that make games rather than marketing/business executive type people.

Ashbringer said:
When games came in cartridges the supplies were limited. Back when Super Nintendo was around, that console actually put more powerful CPUs in the games than in the console itself, in what is essentially an overgrown memory stick. And you have to produce millions of these in a market that kept growing faster than expected. Wasn't until CDs and DVDs that you could just print the games like paper.
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The great thing about that was that it wasn't all on the console maker to predict and provide the needed hardware from day 1. You could expand the capabilities of a system on the fly. Now you're pretty much limited to the stock hardware, and you just have to wait for a new console if you need new capabilities. I think that's part of why consoles are so far behind PCs... they lost most of their expansion abilities with the move to optical media.

If we still had cartridges, anyone that wanted to make demanding games could toss in some extra DDR3 and an ARM to serve as a co-processor, if the base hardware wasn't enough. The way it is now, we have to listen to them pick on the console specs and whine about them while ringing their hands saying it's not good enough and that they won't make games for X platform.
Why you think a lot of companies try to get away with mail in rebates? While you're waiting for the money, that money is working for them in some way.
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Not only that, but most people forget to mail them in. It's no skin off their nose to honor the few rebates that actually get sent in. Usually it's such a small amount of money that you wouldn't have purchased the product in the first place if you needed the rebate.

I've even heard of people who refuse to send them in on principle, because they want to help their favorite developer or something. So yeah... offering rebates really doesn't cost companies as much as people think.
 
They keep on rehashing the same game every year has everything to do with it.

No need to upgrade. Same game at $100 a year.
 
You know what's funny? I recall the only games I have ever pre-ordered at GameStop were Nintendo first party games. And correct me if I'm wrong but, I don't believe Nintendo has ever pulled the 'pre-order and get x-y-z bundle' crap.
 
Only game I ever pre-ordered was Dragon Age 2. First time and not coincidentally last time. Boy did I feel like a sucker and moron for pre-ordering that one.
 
DrBorg said:
FC3 sucked balls.
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I thought the general consensus was that fc3 was great? I never played it.

I'm glad pre ordering is going down. Esp with all these preordering bonus stuff that really shouldn't even be bonuses.
 
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