Acer CG437K P - 43" 4K@144 Hz HDR1000 AdaptiveSync

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Vega, Apr 11, 2019.

  1. Vega

    Vega [H]ardness Supreme

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  2. Zam15

    Zam15 [H]Lite

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    Nice to see some competition with Asus and their 43” ROG Strix XG438Q 120hz. They have been dragging their feet getting that one released... Curious how Acer is going to get 144hz out of this thing at 4K when Asus couldn't? Unless they are running multiple display ports or HDMI? Assuming they are both using the same panel

    I like this monitor but I feel like the perfect monitor would be a 5K 5120X2160 Ultrawide 21:9 around 49-52"

    Just curious what refresh rate that could be run at? Looking into DP 1.4 I'm guessing at least 100hz? The LG 34WK95U is a little on the small side for me and only runs at 60HZ.

    DP 1.4:
    4K 16:9 3840X2160 @ 120HZ
    5K 21:9 5120X2160 @ ?????
    5K 16:9 5120×2880 @ 60HZ

    I currently have a 40" 4K @ 60hz
     
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  3. cybereality

    cybereality [H]ardness Supreme

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  4. Sancus

    Sancus Gawd

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    there's been some non-FALD DisplayHDR1000 stuff popping up lately, I'm highly skeptical of the actual experience of edge lit DisplayHDR 1000.
     
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  5. NotJay

    NotJay 2[H]4U

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    What about hdmi 2.1 for 144hz hdr
     
  6. sethk

    sethk [H]ard|Gawd

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    Wonder if it's 4:2:0 at 144hz or some display compression?
     
  7. Keller1

    Keller1 n00b

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    HDMI 2.1 will do 5120x2160@144hz 10 bit HDR going by the numbers

    30 ( 10 bit x 3 ) x 2160 x 5120 x 144 = 47775744000 which is 47.7 gigabit which is near the 48gbps limit of the interface.


    There is also blanking to account for so it's possible that it will only be 120 at 39gbps.
     
  8. zehoo

    zehoo Limp Gawd

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    Looks like when next years cards come out with hdmi 2.1 I’ll have a monitor to go with it. (Assuming I don’t get tempted by an adaptive sync OLED next year.)
     
  9. Vega

    Vega [H]ardness Supreme

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    With that price, I am 99% certain it is edge lit.

    DP 1.4 can run HDR 10-bit 4K@144 Hz at 4:2:2 chroma. This is the settings the 27" 4K 144 Hz monitors launched last year top out at.
     
  10. gan7114

    gan7114 Limp Gawd

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    Well at least it doesn't look gaudy with gamer and RGB bling everywhere. And at a reasonable size and price.

    That said, I'm not even looking at monitors until they come with HDMI 2.1, which won't be until we have graphics cards that come with HDMI 2.1.

    And reaching 100% DCI-P3 coverage.

    This industry as a whole needs a kick in the ass.
     
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  11. exlink

    exlink [H]ardness Supreme

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    Any word if this will be an IPS or VA display?
     
  12. Vega

    Vega [H]ardness Supreme

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  13. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Where have you seen the price? I didn't think it was announced yet.


    4:2:2? Ick. I want full 4:4:4 or nothing. At the very least on the desktop. if it can switch between the two, and only use 4:2:2 at high refresh rates in games when you are unlikely to notice, then I am fine with it, but for desktop use I find that nothing but full 4:4:4 will do.

    believe it or not, I use my computer for more than just games :p
     
  14. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    I used to be an IPS only snob. Then I picked up my 2015 Samsung JS9000 and have been using it for 3.5 - 4 years and it is really quite nice. I feel like maybe my IPS snobbery of the past was misplaced. Either that or VA has gotten A LOT better than it used to be.
     
  15. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    I ahven't found FALD to be necessary for me. My 2015 JS9000 has that edge lit dynamic nonsense. I just disabled it and have all the backlight all the time and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. The blacks are still black enough.
     
  16. Drags

    Drags Gawd

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  17. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    That's a better price than I was expecting.

    Now we just have to wait for these to actually become available, and decide which is better between this Predator Screen and that 43" Asus ROG one.

    I was unexpectedly sucked into a trip to Sweden this summer for some family obligations which zapped my expected system upgrade budget for the year (I really wanted that Ryzen 3...), but I might just be able to justify spending money on one of these as a consolation prize.
     
  18. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Yeah, I appreciate this too.

    I wonder if the "Predator" logo can be rubbed off the front with some solvent. Then it would be even better.

    I hate the racy shit.
     
  19. kasakka

    kasakka [H]ard|Gawd

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    The Predator brand is really awful just like all "gamer" aesthetics.

    I wonder if the stand on the display is in any way adjustable because based on the video it looks like it might not be. I've looked at the Acer ET430K in store a few times to gauge if a display this big would work for me and I feel being able to adjust the height and tilt a bit would be nice. Seems the similar ASUS XG438Q sits a bit lower but its 3-leg design might be more problematic for placement.
     
  20. Skott

    Skott 2[H]4U

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    Yeah much cheaper than I was expecting as well. Not that its cheap but I'm wondering if the much lower price is an indication of something not as good as one would think? Maybe I'm just being a worry wort?
     
  21. Sancus

    Sancus Gawd

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    The FALD is the main thing that increases cost in HDR monitors, they've decided they can get away without it by using a VA panel to achieve the required black levels. It isn't going to have anywhere near the backlight control and precision of the X27, let alone the upcoming microLED stuff.
     
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  22. Skott

    Skott 2[H]4U

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    Interesting...
     
  23. elvn

    elvn 2[H]4U

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    An edge lit variable refresh rate VA gaming monitor with very good overdrive has up to 3000:1 contrast ratio in SDR.
    An edge lit VA TV as a monitor has around 4200:1 to 6200:1.
    A TN or IPS monitor typically has 860:1 to 980:1 contrast ratio
    (VA gaming monitors have ~ 3x or more than the contrast and black depth of ips/tn, and there's an even greater gap from ips/tn to edge lit VA tvs)

    \A FALD ips like the x27 has 8000:1 to 11,000:1 contrast ratio and up to 1000nit HDR color volume height.
    SDR screens are 350nit peak color to 400-ish but the band is narrow so adjusting the relative brightness on the high end will lose contrast and black levels on the low end..
    An OLED with ABL cuts off at 600nit in HDR to avoid burn in.
    A high end FALD HDR VA TV like the samsung Q9FN has 19,000:1 contrast ratio and nearly 2000nit HDR color volume height (but suffers a dim or bloom offset on side by side contrasted colors and darkness due to the limits of it's FALD array density.)

    -------------------------------------------------------------

    If you believe edge lit can do HDR well enough (I don't) or you aren't interested in HDR much, and considering the size - this price might not seem as bad. Considering everything else coming down the pipe I'd have to compare how far this $1200 - $1500 + tax would go toward the higher price tag of a similar sized FALD or OLED model later. I wouldn't buy anything without FALD or OLED tech and expect real HDR side by side darkness and color brightness levels (which is what HDR is all about). However, HDR content is not ubiquitous yet. Personally, I'd much rather wait on HDMI 2.1 in both displays in the near term and later in GPUS though, too.

    The gap between TVs and gaming monitors is shrinking. This is probably one of the last series/years of monitors that can charge higher prices than the comparably sized tvs for 120hz VRR. That is because this round of monitors will support 120hz 4k over displayport rather than hdmi which still can't, and nvidia released a whole gen of gpus without hdmi 2.1 outputs coincidentally.

    Eventually gpus will have hdmi 2.1 output and TVs (and monitors) will have hdmi 2.1 input, supporting 120hz 4k 4:4:4 chroma + VariableRefreshRate + QuickFrameTransport (for low input lag gaming), etc. That's not to say that a 4k hdmi 2.1 tv that has FALD or OLED tech or MicroLED tech capable of good HDR would be cheap, but it would be way better contrast and real HDR for how much more than these monitors that lack that contrast and true HDR capablity is the question.

    So to me it seems like a gpu and display roadmap scenario. HDMI 2.1 is being roadmapped farther away. That said, I'll definitely weigh my options on whatever becomes available and I could still end up with one of these as they are still very tempting and are the perfect size for my desk setup.. That's the nature of product technology roadmaps like these I guess, tempt you to buy in multiple times chasing the carrot. The problem is the displays are getting much more expensive again so they are much larger piggy bank breaks, and there are monitor tech rollouts very near, especially hdmi 2.1 just around the corner in later 2019 and through 2020. I realize there's always something better but this is a somewhat rapid and imminent time for newer monitor tech with what appears to me to be a middling batch of displayport non 4:4:4, 120hz 4k "HDR imposter" monitors being thrown in at high prices before a big page turn.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
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  24. NotJay

    NotJay 2[H]4U

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  25. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Hmm. How does that work? Would you have to configure it as two 1920x2160 screens side by side in a weird dual monitor NV Surround type setup?
     
  26. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    It should be transparent- DisplayPort has been used this way pretty regularly, with it being more like adding PCIe lanes than say bonding ethernet links. Could be wrong, but I don't believe that it'll be an issue.
     
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  27. Skott

    Skott 2[H]4U

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    I wonder if the Asus will require two DP as well?
     
  28. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    This chart from Wikipedia suggests that Displayport 1.4 in HBR3 mode can support 4k up to 120hz uncompressed in full 4:4:4 chroma, so this may be why Asus decided to stop at 120hz, and not go all the way to 144 like Acer.

    upload_2019-4-17_21-29-42.png

    It doesn't mention how many bits per channel though, so that may only be for 8bit? Not sure. I'm sure someone who knows more will chime in.
     
  29. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Additionally, it appears as if even 144hz is possible by dropping to 4:2:2 chroma, which isn't really noticeable in game, unless you have colored text on colored backgrounds, so it is possible Acer's dual DP mode is just for people who want placebo mode and demand 4:4:4 in game.

    upload_2019-4-17_21-32-28.png

    4:2:2 chroma is definitely noticible on the desktop though, so it would need to have a way to switch between the modes, otherwise the desktop experience would suck.

    Again, same caveat that it does not mention how many bpc...
     
  30. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Actually,. never mind, there is another chart for 10bpc, so that top chart is definitely for 8bpc

    upload_2019-4-17_21-39-8.png

    So, 98hz actually exceeds the standard slightly but can be achieved by running non standard timings. 120hz is out in uncompressed 4:4:4



    If we include compression and lower chroma we see the below:

    upload_2019-4-17_21-40-34.png


    So, by dropping to 4:2:2 which should be an imperceptible quality loss in most cases, you can actually hit 10bps up to 144hz.


    I have never seen DSC compression, so I don't know how bad it looks
     
  31. Vega

    Vega [H]ardness Supreme

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    I've never seen a display use DSC yet.
     
  32. xSneak

    xSneak Limp Gawd

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    How do people use these big monitors? Gaming with a controller or just farther away from the keyboard/mouse?
     
  33. Sancus

    Sancus Gawd

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    It should show up as one monitor. All the handling of two links is done in the driver without any user interaction. You may need to use a driver recent enough for this display to have been added to the white list, not sure if that's still how it works or if there's a way for the DP monitor to signal this capability. Zisworks made a display that worked this way several years ago to get around DP1.2 bandwidth limitations.

    If they used a single DP link, it would have the same refresh rate limitations as the Acer X27(98hz with 4:4:4 chroma). Circumventing those limitations is a decent point in favor of this display even with its lack of FALD(and lower price).

    Technically I think that feature means this is the first true 4K 144hz (4:4:4 chroma, no compromises) display ever made?
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
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  34. elvn

    elvn 2[H]4U

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    I use a second overlapping desk section, command center style to sit further away.
    I'll move the crescent desk further away once I replace the 32" with a 43" since the middle monitor will then push the array 5" wider on each side (32" vs 43" monitor gain's 10" width or 5" each side of the 32"). The circular desk section is on wheels so can move fwd/back and even rotate if I wanted to. It's also height adjustable with screw knobs like a weight machine sort of so I was able to raise it to a height where it just overlaps the main desk. It also has a panel across the bottom for your feet.

    I do use a controller sometimes for dark souls 3 and can tilt my chair back to a different angle if I want to be looking from farther away or if I want more comfort, but it's a good distance as it is. 3' from the center of each monitor to my eyeballs currently. I can rotate my chair slightly if I'm focusing more on one side than the other, otherwise I use the inner 60% of the side monitors for more intesely watched stuff as it is currently. I can pop windows arround with my powergrid very easily too.

    Once I can replace the 32" with another 43" gaming monitor I'll move the crescent desk back more to see more of them all but I wouldn't want to be any farther away from the 32" for now. When I had my rec room setup I could face out from a corner rather than facing a wall, but this works well with the room my setup is in currently.


    More details here: https://imgur.com/a/9pUtfbG


    This pic shows the 2nd desk overlap better.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
  35. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    I sit right infront of my 48".


    107275_upload_2018-3-4_22-18-40.png


    It is a little big, which is why I think 43" would be perfect.

    I'll admit, it felt weird and uncomfrtable at first, but you learn to look at it differently. I focus on the middle, the rest becomes peripheral vision. It is so much more immersive of an experience than a smaller screen, that there is no going back. I can't enjoy games on smaller screens anymore.


    Also, people don't realize how much of the "this feels too big" experience is really just a matter of what you are used to.

    When I first bought my 22" Iiyama Visionmaster Pro 510 CRT monitor in 2001, it was the largest monitor I had ever seen, and it felt really awkward sitting infront of it. I quickly got over it.

    Same thing happened when I in 2005 bought my Dell 2405fpw 24" 1920x1200 widescreen, and again when I bought my 30" Dell U3011 in 2010.

    Each time I got used to them. I bet you would too.
     
  36. elvn

    elvn 2[H]4U

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    I wouldn't sit closer than 3' to a big monitor personally but whatever works for you. :)

    gZC7Z25.jpg

     
  37. MistaSparkul

    MistaSparkul [H]ard|Gawd

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    I've had my 55" B7 OLED for 1.5 years and have never gotten used to it. It's just too big as a desktop monitor no matter how much time I give it. I'm waiting on LG to release a 48" version maybe I'll be able to live with that. Of all the monitor sizes I've used, I liked 32" the most but 40" comes a close 2nd.
     
  38. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    I use a 48" Samsung JS9000 on my desk. I've mostly gotten used to it, but it is still a tiny bit on the large side.

    I'm hoping to pick up one of the 43" 120-144hz variable refresh monitors by Asus and Acer due out this year. They'll be VA, not OLED, but that doesn't matter much to me. I've been pretty happy with Samsung's VA implementation for the last three and a half years.
     
  39. Skott

    Skott 2[H]4U

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    Interesting info guys. Thanks for sharing. As to desk I use two Ikea dinning tables for my desk set up. They are arranged in a L shape pattern and are 37inches deep/wide so plenty of.space to sit back from a 43" display I think.
     
  40. Martha Stewart

    Martha Stewart Gawd

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    so Sept release?
    (which really means Nov/Dec)
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019