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ToddRepp said:Yup. It's a crime.
Sucka said:I would love to see that tried in court. If someone doesn't know how to protect their connection, they sure as $hit don't know how to monitor who's on it, and prove it to boot.
Sucka said:I would love to see that tried in court. If someone doesn't know how to protect their connection, they sure as $hit don't know how to monitor who's on it, and prove it to boot.
Not according to the FCC rules. Note that broadcast TV is free (cannot be stolen) and is an unencrypted, public signal. Also, consider the handheld radios. Is using any of those signals(provided you're not trespassing to get them) illegal? Hell no. Those are on public frequency space, and you made no effort to circumvent protection. By leaving your network open, you grant public use. Look at convention centers, airports, universities, etc with open signal. Where are the signs saying "ITS OK, YOU WILL NOT BE SUED FOR USING THIS WIRELESS"? They are not needed.ToddRepp said:Yup. It's a crime.
M11 said:Not according to the FCC rules. Note that broadcast TV is free (cannot be stolen) and is an unencrypted, public signal. Also, consider the handheld radios. Is using any of those signals(provided you're not trespassing to get them) illegal? Hell no. Those are on public frequency space, and you made no effort to circumvent protection. By leaving your network open, you grant public use.
ToddRepp said:Getting caught is another thing altogether. It's still a crime, and if your only reason for not comitting crimes is fear of getting caught your parents have done a very poor job.
It gets murky when the owner doesn't know how to show intent to make it private, as is the case with the wireless routers.M11 said:Not according to the FCC rules. Note that broadcast TV is free (cannot be stolen) and is an unencrypted, public signal. Also, consider the handheld radios. Is using any of those signals(provided you're not trespassing to get them) illegal? Hell no. Those are on public frequency space, and you made no effort to circumvent protection. By leaving your network open, you grant public use. Look at convention centers, airports, universities, etc with open signal. Where are the signs saying "ITS OK, YOU WILL NOT BE SUED FOR USING THIS WIRELESS"? They are not needed.
Now say you try to break the encryption on satellite TV. Guess what? Thats private signal, with the owner showing intent for it to be nonpublic.
Sad. Telling, and sad. yes, I would. Who's to say where that 50 came from? Especially from wally world, it could have been some poor single mother's food money for the week, just as easiely, it could be some bastards drug money, but you don't know.Wow, nancy boys here. So if a $50 dollar bill was sitting next to a Wal-Mart you would pick it up and walk it back inside?
XOR != OR said:It gets murky when the owner doesn't know how to show intent to make it private, as is the case with the wireless routers.
But, let's lay out a senario for you folks. Your neighbor has an open AP, so you use it freely. Someone else comes along and finds this AP, and use it illegally ( say, crack into a bank and steals records ).
Cops to owner: Did you intend to share this connection?
Owner: Nope.
Suddenly, you are tresspassing. On top of that, you are under suspicion for the crime that was commited.
Quite frankly, you folks sadden me. You all know morally it's not right. You know that most people that have these things don't intend to share their connection, they just don't know any better. And yet, because of greed, you try to justify it's use, to yourself and others. So I would have to agree with the statement that your parents didn't raise you all right, or you didn't listen to them try.
Sad. Telling, and sad. yes, I would. Who's to say where that 50 came from? Especially from wally world, it could have been some poor single mother's food money for the week, just as easiely, it could be some bastards drug money, but you don't know.
No, but it is the fault of the client if they actively connect to it.Zardoz said:That is not the fault of the cliant.
Yeah huh. I don't know what mythical place you live in, but in most parts, cops don't know shit about computer, and all you have to do is suggest that someone hacked something, and they will either blow it off or, more likely, over react.Cops: oh your a dumb ass...
This is the part that confuses me. Why are computers so different from anything else that they need their own laws?I know of no trasspassing laws on using free access AP...
There you go. Go ask,I agree with some points here, but the thing to do is to go ASK! and also let them know of the problem. I for one have an open AP (with an SSID named "FREE USE" and let anyone use it.
[/quote]Nope. That requires some intent on the part of the home user. Most of the time, people buy these things and hook them up. End of story.As for the unlocked home thing. an OPEN AP is like putting a sign out in the front yard that shows OPEN HOUSE. even though you might not ment it to be one...
M11 said:Not according to the FCC rules. Note that broadcast TV is free (cannot be stolen) and is an unencrypted, public signal. Also, consider the handheld radios. Is using any of those signals(provided you're not trespassing to get them) illegal? Hell no. Those are on public frequency space, and you made no effort to circumvent protection. By leaving your network open, you grant public use. Look at convention centers, airports, universities, etc with open signal. Where are the signs saying "ITS OK, YOU WILL NOT BE SUED FOR USING THIS WIRELESS"? They are not needed.
Now say you try to break the encryption on satellite TV. Guess what? Thats private signal, with the owner showing intent for it to be nonpublic.
niccoli said:If someone were to leave there house unlocked and wide open for people to come into it is still against the law to enter there house without telling them, that's trespassing. I would think it would be the same with a wireless network.
psychofurryewok said:If the door is unlocked and you walk in they can't charge you with anything, they can only ask you to leave.
O[H]-Zone said:If the door is unlocked and you walk into MY house, and I don't know you, you're leaving in 12 gauge chunks.
XOR != OR said:
No, but it is the fault of the client if they actively connect to it.
Yeah huh. I don't know what mythical place you live in, but in most parts, cops don't know shit about computer, and all you have to do is suggest that someone hacked something, and they will either blow it off or, more likely, over react.
This is the part that confuses me. Why are computers so different from anything else that they need their own laws?
Nope. That requires some intent on the part of the home user. Most of the time, people buy these things and hook them up. End of story.
BobSutan said:Have fun with Bubba and friends..
O[H]-Zone said:I don't know anybody named "Bubba".
Tennessee has. Several cases in fed. court have been thrown out over the Theft of service complaint.BobSutan said:^^^ Agreed. However, legally its a grey area. Because of this, some States.....<snip>
M11 said:Remember, free wireless encourages spamming, virus seeding, and piracy. Therefore we should ban it. [/COLOR]
M11 said:With those in power clueless, the legislation reflects those who lobby. As of right now that represents the huge corporate interests. It would be great if hardforum organized a group to promote responsible technology legislation. Personally, I would be willint to organize/help organize it. Anyone else with me?
I know. I donate to themBobSutan said:These folks have already beat you to it.
But just because you do it doesn't make it right. What we were discussing was the law of such, not whether you can do it, because it is easy to do so and no one gets caught.JKA Represent said:i didnt read all the blabber here, but just acess it. You will not get in trouble. Dont worry about it. I do it.
Wang191 said:How about this. If you try and get into a router on the web there is always a message that says that it is private property and any attempt to connect and what not is not allowed. That's there for a reason. Because according to law If you do not say that your server, router, whatever, is closed to the public, it can be accessed leagally because anything on the net is public property because anyone can access it. At least that's what one of my networking books said.