AA/AF in game or control pannel?

Kano

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
353
I recently bought an 8800GTS 640MB comming from a 6600GT. Should be here Friday.
I'll OC it a little.

My question is with all these new AA and AF options, if I want the the highest quality what should I do?
I don't really know what the best AA and AF mode are since there are many now (ex: Transparency AA).
Plus if I set AA and AF in the Nvidia CP should I even bother with the in-game settings for AA/AF?

I'll be playing BF2, C&C 3, WoW, Oblivion, and several games that are comming out soon like Quake Wars.
 
Joined
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Ok ive posted this like 100times now lol......ill print a screen and use the settings in my Screenshot!!!!!!.....

At the bottom of Control Panel two settings are cut off my Screenshot They are Tripple Buffer (OFF) and Vsync (FORCE OFF).......

When you set control panel set to HIGH PERFORMANCE FIRST...this will reset the video card options...After you do that click APPLY!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Now every setting you change after this Click APPLY after each one!.....
I alway set my settings to high in the Nvidia Control then adjust my game menu settings seperately in the game im Playing ....I also ALWAYS set the OVERIDE ANY APLICATION SETTING!.....

So try it im shure youll like it alot! Also make shure your( MONITOR DISPLAY DRIVER )is installed and you use the Highest( Hz )allowed setting for your Display at the Resolution you are Gaming at ...The Higher the( HZ )the Faster the Mouse and Game response will be! i also make my Desktop resolution and Gaming Resolution the Same!




Ps these Settings will get You Optimal Picture Quality ! these Have been Tweeked for High in game Qaulity with SPeed performance in mind ....Do not I repeat DO NOT USE the QUALITY OR HIGH QUALITY setting in control panel .....It will not be as fast ..When either of those two settings are used it is for Quality only and not faster performance With High QUALITY...I have played several different Game titles and Thousands of Hours of Online game time ...ive been Optimizing video Cards for over 15years since16mbNvidia and Ati Cards...Up to present! These settings do work for Optimal QUALITY and SPEED!...
 

Skanks

n00b
Joined
Nov 30, 2004
Messages
23
Shouldn't he stick the Texture Filter Quality to High Quality not High Performance?

Personally I use the ingame settings if they are available, and override them (or enhance them) on a per game basis.
 

Kano

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
353
So by doing all of what you say will achieve the best image quality possible?
Can someone else confirm all those settings are correct?

I have a 19" widescreen samsung (1440x900) btw.
 
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Remember he does want best Quality with performance!....If you set High Qaulity it will disable some options and reanable others ...This also goes for Setting it to Quality!.......When you set it to High Performance and then set all the other individual filters you are Tweaking the card to Run Faster with High Quality......

In Nvidias control panel if you go by thier description that says one setting is faster than a nother it is flawed.... Ive trned OFF and ON these settings Hundreds of Times per different games . When you Clamp Lod Bias it will usually improve Anisotropic filtering and speed up sytem! Although when it says Allow it will slow down a system...Its backwords in how this funtion works and the same goes for other settings as well!.....Ive ran Games with the (FPS in game Rates) going Tweaking every setting possible with ANISTROPIC 16x and ANTIALIASING 16Q set( the Same for Everything )during testing....

The other settings you change one at a time untill the HIGHEST QUALITY AND FPS is reached @ your Given Resolution....there is way more than just plugging in a card.....If the settings arnt turned on in the( VIDEO CARDs CONTROL PANEL) you will never be able to use the function in GAME even if the Game has AA/AF set to HIGH!! If AA/AF is OFF...ill say it AGAIN if the settings OFF you cant use them!....

The Nvidia Control Panel Screen shot that i have posted is tweaked on a 8800GTS and you can game at any resolution, Depending on the game you Will be playing you should only have to ADJUST AA/AF to maybe 1lower setting in the((( Given Game Menu!)))....Im a FPS freak and i hate Games that look like Crap so im not going to tell some that plays todays games something that will disappoint them...During the Day im always helping people improve thier FPS and Game Quality in Americas Army or im Admin ..Ive seen alot of Bugs and trouble shoot lots of Video Cards!

I can only suggest but i know you wont be disapointed!
 

Triz08

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 18, 2005
Messages
266
If your giving him advice for the best image quality for the price it takes on performance, then your settings you gave him are wrong. 16xQ takes a huge hit on FPS while only slightly decreasing the number of "jaggies" in games.

Also, read this about the Texture Filtering options:

Quality is the default setting. Its results is usually ok, but you might be able to see shimmering in some textures.

High Quality disables all optimizing algorithms that sacrifice any image quality to gain speed. It's usually about 5 to 20% slower than Quality. Most people don't see much of a difference between Quality and High Quality, but if you see some shimmering textures or a "bow wash" in front of you while you're moving, you should try to select High Quality.

The options "Trilinear optimization" and "Anisotropic sample optimization" might not work (always off) if "High Quality" is selected.

Performance and High Performance both reduce the image quality visibly, by reducing the resolution of the textures and by applying all possible optimizations. The resulting image is usually not what the game's developers had in mind.
 

Kano

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
353
I'm looking for decent performance but above all image quality.
So I should use in-game settings for AA/AF in conjunction with the CP AA/AF?

You can see how I would be confused.
 

Triz08

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 18, 2005
Messages
266
Everything is ok in his screenshot, but just change the Texture Filtering to Quality or High Quality. If you find that 16xQ and Supersampling take away too many fps, try using 8xQ and go from there. But at the res you'll be using, you should be fine with the highest settings.

In-game settings should be maxed, and then let the Nvidia CP add in and overide the additional AA and AF settings.
 

Kano

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
353
I read on that rage3d review that you don't want Negative LOD bias set to clamp as filtering won't look as good in some games. Anyone have a say on this?
Also doesn't force mipmaps, anisotropic optimization, and and trillinear optimization reduce image quality?
 

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
56,226
I always use in game options whenever possible. Unfortunately some titles like UT2004 don't have any ingame options for AA and AF.
 

Triz08

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 18, 2005
Messages
266
I read on that rage3d review that you don't want Negative LOD bias set to clamp as filtering won't look as good in some games. Anyone have a say on this?
Also doesn't force mipmaps, anisotropic optimization, and and trillinear optimization reduce image quality?
Well, some games alter the LOD bias (Level of Detail Bias) in order to sharpen images, but when you change the LOD Bias it can actually add more aliasing or "jaggies" to the textures.

Because anisotropic filtering provides texture sharpening without unwanted aliasing, it is a reccomended to clamp LOD bias when anisotropic filtering is enabled. When you enable anisotropic filtering through the control panel, the control is automatically set to Clamp.

And, Yes. Force mipmaps, anisotropic optimization, and trillinear optimization do reduce image quality in order to gain performance. That is why it is reccomended to set the Texture Filtering to High Quality which automatically disables those options. Only time force mipmaps should be set to Billinear or Trilinear is when playing older games. Force Mipmaps is usually unnecessary as most any game will take care of that itself.
 
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
609
If your giving him advice for the best image quality for the price it takes on performance, then your settings you gave him are wrong. 16xQ takes a huge hit on FPS while only slightly decreasing the number of "jaggies" in games.

Also, read this about the Texture Filtering options:

Quality is the default setting. Its results is usually ok, but you might be able to see shimmering in some textures.

High Quality disables all optimizing algorithms that sacrifice any image quality to gain speed. It's usually about 5 to 20% slower than Quality. Most people don't see much of a difference between Quality and High Quality, but if you see some shimmering textures or a "bow wash" in front of you while you're moving, you should try to select High Quality.

The options "Trilinear optimization" and "Anisotropic sample optimization" might not work (always off) if "High Quality" is selected.

Performance and High Performance both reduce the image quality visibly, by reducing the resolution of the textures and by applying all possible optimizations. The resulting image is usually not what the game's developers had in mind.

Ok for the people that are reading the last two sentances above pertaining toPerformance and HIGH PERFORMANCE that will not affect your Video Card if you are Manualy Setting the FILTERS the way its posted in my ScreenShot!.

Performance and high performance are only affected in that way if you DO NOT ENABLE THE OTHER FILTERS!
When you set it to((( HIGH PERFORMANCE)))) you then have to manualy set the other options to get the Optimal performance Qaulity speed performance ....

If you use HigH Qaulity only, it will set only quality filters!....which will disable other features!....By enabling (((((High Performance))))))) it sets the card to default filters to(off) with most options disabled ,You then Apply the Filters and AA/AF settings to gain Optimal performance with Quality!...Not all filters will be used in most cases some filters will worsen Quality or even slow your FPS...

If you run the card by what it says in the chart you may be loosing Quality and performance in several ways....Using 16Q or 16x offers Quality Edges with Antialiasing in which 16x will offer slighly Higher FPS....

Also you may only have to Switch the AAsettings lower 16x instead of 16Q...I will show Screen shots in which FPS was the only factor! Ive never lowered my settings in any Game on 8800. its amazingly smooth and fast with Quality....If you want the best speed with Quality then use Exactly Half of AA and keep everything else the same..

I try to only Adjust the in game AA/AF settings ..at worst i will lower the AA/AF on the card as a last resort! You need to test some games for AA/AF settings and to see if you have screen Tearing from Vsync .Most games perform better with it LOD Clamped on the Card and set to OFF in the Game!...Some games are the other way around!...... By all means make shure you install your Monitor Display Driver and use the Highest Hz you can Run for your Resolution..This can improve the overall performance, Higher HZ =Faster response!

Im not saying any one else is wrong or that im 100%right .I do Know that these settings work .l have tested over (12 different Nvidia cards )from (5200)thru-(8800). All the Video cards have done better performance and Quality wise with usually picked up FPS . If i had only used the Automatic card Setting and Automatic AA/AF i would actually loose FPS and Picture Quality in most Games ..

You should try it some time and you will notice going by The Spec Chart it is not 100% reliable.There are some settings that hurt sytem speed Quality or can even increase it when combined with other options! There is more performance to Gain....Its called tweaking....

For everyone that dosnt believe me PLEASE TRY THE SETTINGs that i POSTED in a previouse Screenshot and post FPS With your Old Setting and With the New setting ... If you can please test @ 1024x768 or 1280x1024 ANY GAME WILL WORK that has FPS counter!Even Demos!

I guess ill post the First Screens .. after i get some new Fps reading's
 

Triz08

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 18, 2005
Messages
266
Performance and high performance are only affected in that way if you DO NOT ENABLE THE OTHER FILTERS!
When you set it to((( HIGH PERFORMANCE)))) you then have to manualy set the other options to get the Optimal performance Qaulity speed performance ....

If you use HigH Qaulity only, it will set only quality filters!....which will disable other features!....By enabling (((((High Performance))))))) it sets the card to default filters to(off) with most options disabled ,You then Apply the Filters and AA/AF settings to gain Optimal performance with Quality!...Not all filters will be used in most cases some filters will worsen Quality or even slow your FPS...
What are these so called "Filters" you are talking about. When you enable performance or high performance, it allows you to turn on anisotropic sample optimization and trillinear optimization. These are 2 older texture rendering technologies mostly used in older games. If these settings are turned on, then you are actually reducing the texture quality in order to gain the performance. What you are saying doesn't make much sense.
 

Kano

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
353
Well I have it now.
Why do I not want to say enhance the application setting?
Still not sure about LOD Bias as well.

I'm asking because I've seen some strange looking AA in some games, especially battlefield 2.
 
Joined
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Messages
609
KANOif you can open the game and see if it has a FPS (FRAMES PER SECOND) counter ,most online games have this in the game ......For example in Americas Army you press the F6 key and it shows your online or offline STATUS with a FPS counter....

Im pretty shure BF2 and 2142 has this option...You will want to enable it while playing in OFFLINE mode so your internet connection dosnt hammer down any of the FPS Readings. Ok now try Switching your LOD BIAS to CLAMP in most games you can press a windows key to switch to your desktop and change settings in Control Panel with the game running! Clamping your LOD Bias should raise the FPS higher.....Try ALLOW or ClAMP and use which ever one is the highest FPS. Some Games use the ALLOW option but most run Smoother and Higher FPS with it Set to Clamp . This also helps Anisotropic and Antialiasing Filtering to be smoother with Less jaggies .

For your 8800GTS 640 try using the The Settings in my (screenshots) from this Post and also set your ;) (Game menu to the Lowest Antialiasing Setting);) Please make shure you use OVERIDE ANY APPLICATION! This should enable the AA/AF in Bf2142 and Bf2 with better Quality than what your experiancing .You should beable to notice Smooth edges...,If not then set the in (Game setting to Higher AA/AF)but leave the settings in NVidia Control Panel the Same as it is in the (ScreenShot)

When you use (ENHANCE APPLICATION SETTING) I have found that it does not perform as well as (OVERIDE ANY APPLICATION) or( APPLICATION CONTROLED) .I have tested this in several games...This is why i always set my Card to (((((HIGH PERFORMANCE))))) and (OVERIDE ANY APPLICATION) ,then set the other FILTER OPTIONs..Also make shure you Use( 16x Antialiasing and not 16Q) there is a slight Differance in FPS only but Quality is the same!....I did notice smoother Game Play with 16Q ,but this could be do to the Card running under more of a load with 16Q verse 16 and letting my CPU catch up.. Also for those who want to Know why i always use HIGH PERFORMANCE mode,,It will rest most of your filter settings when APPLIED then you manually set all other settings to Achieve Optimal Performanceor Picture Quality...Just setting your Card to Quality or High Quality Alone will not OPTIMIZE it:D I have Since upgraded my Cpu to a 5600+X2 @3014Mhz!!!!!!! and will redo My Fps findings once my CPU is Burned in:cool:

Heres first Half of Nvidia Control Panel ...ONLY LOWER the Antialiasing or Anisotropic in control panel if you have to...And set in game AA/AF settings to low( NOT OFF!!!) makes shure you use OVERIDE APPLICATION SETTING...Then after you try these settings let me know what you think!:D



Second half of Nvidia Control Panel settings...




********************************************************************************************************

your posts are so hard to read >.<
8800GTS320mb......................................Sometimes you just need to see the results ,so at the Bottom are some Screens of my test results..:D

Hope every one can read this stuff now ! Or at least understand it ! Sry for my typing..

This is all about Game Quality with Fast Playable FPS@1024x768 and 1280x1024 21"widescreen.......These test do Not Reflect High RES SETTINGS ...The High Res Settings are Very Simalar but only use Less AA/AF in most cases...If this was a 8800GTS 640mb over the320MB you will almost see no change in FPS using the two Resolutions i have tested !....I only play @ 1024x768@75hz for Optimal gaming speed with a 21"viewsonic WideScreen!...I only play @1280x1024@75Hz when i want to test my FPS with a Higher GPU load..

Also the only Differance between 16Q and 16x was that it allowed my games to play even smoother with 16Q ! I had a 40FPSdrop in 1280x1024 and it did not slow down the 8800...This could also mean that it was allowing the GPU to work harder which also let my CPU catch back up! The Picture Quality is flawless and the game plays extreamly fast....I am costantly being called a haxor because of the 8800GTS its speed allows me to get the bad guy first! I will be Installing a X2 this weekend and OverClocking it @2.8Ghz minimum lol then i am going to (Retest )these results for FPS and (16Q) because my 2.4Ghz Cpu was @100%usage during game play!


Well ive posted ScreenShots below.........in (My SIG) is the (Test SYSTEM)........My Cpu @ 2.4GhzAM2 is actually holding my 8800GTS 320mb back with this particulare Game! Look at the textures and Antialiasing!...The only real bad thing i noticed was with (16Q) some walls looked as if they may of had a Slight bowwash ,Look at them closely there are also no Jaggies in either setting . Everything is Maxed in game with LOD Bias set to Clamp and in Americas ArmySpecial Forces version2.8.1 Set the Lod Bias to low! ALL the Screenshots were taken with the settings used in my preveously posted Screenshot of (Nvidia Controlpanel settings) Americas Army also uses the same UT4Unreal Game Engine which many Games use today and supports all the lighting effects ,shawdows ,High textures, Antialiasing, trilinear filtering and even gama correction! .

The Game will put heavy demand on any CPU /GPU.....Cpu 2.4Ghz minimum is required! Recomended Cpu 3.0Ghz. Recomeded VideoCard 6800 256mb that will work with texture Lighting . Even with 1gig of ram the game will eat it UP. So 2gigs is even better. The Game has a majority of different maps ranging from a Lush Forest to a Complete City or even a water Treatment plant!


The two screenshots with( LOWEST FPS) are with (16Q Antialiasing) and( 16xAnisotropic) enabled with OVERIDE ANY APPLICATION . The two (HighestFPS )screenshots are with (16x Antialiasing).....and same settings. (Fps) is the only real differance with the exception of slight( bowwash with 16Q enabled) ...The bowwash was only present while not moving. This is when some walls look like they are slightly slanted and if you didnt know what bowwash is , It sometimes will be hard to see! It did not hamper my Game Play Performance at all. For the Most Part BF2 and Bf2142 should have very simalar Grafics picture Quality .....When i get my CD,s back from a friend ill then do some Bf2 or 2142 testing ....remeber the FPS is with a 2.4Ghz Cpu!

Note : Last Screen shot was 202FPS the counter did not show up in my Screen..@ low Res 1024x768 there is almost no Differance in Fps it would just be steady @199Average 16X and 16Q ..In 1280x1024 i found that the AVERAGE was @151FPS which showed a 21FPS decrease with 16Q over 16x , This is far less then the Stated 20%performance decrease which ive seen posted in reviews where they say the 16Q hampers the Game Play when used in High Performance Mode...Now you see why i Tweak my Menu..

1stScreen @Map Dusk- AmericasArmy 1280x1024@75Hz 133FPS (16Q)


2ndScreen@Map Dusk -AmericasArmy 1280x1024@75Hz 172FPS(16x)


3rdScreen @ Map Dusk-AmericasArmy 1024x768@75Hz 194FPS (16Q)


4ThScreen @ Map Dusk-AmericasArmy 1024x768@75Hz 202FPS(16x)
 
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