A new NEC professional IPS? PA series

Could someone explain to me in what circumstances you would use the adobe rgb preset mode opposed to using one of the full gamut modes?

I guess colormanaged applications like photoshop and firefox 3 will anyway translate your adobe rgb images towards the wider gamut when using a full gamut mode. Could the purpose be that non-colormanaged applications would then also be able to show adobe rgb images correctly or do they anyway read them out as srgb?

It would only really be useful if you are working in an non-color-managed workflow that was using an AdobeRGB colorspace. If you are using color managed apps, then you may as well take advantage of the full color gamut of the display and not be restricted to Adobe RGB for no good reason.
 
I hope the heating problem on the multisync series (namely my 2690wuxi) is addressed in the new PA series.

I have to send my 2690 in for warranty only after 1 year/2000 hour of typical use and the screen was screwed up and created many yellowish artifacts around the edge. The monitor generates significant amount of heat, now I have to use a small fan blowing on back of my replacement to keep it cool and avoid similar problem happening to my replacement unit :(

If new PA runs cooler, I may as well get one...
 
NEC 2490 - Hour usage
How do you check hour usage history ?

Wrong thread. This thread is for the new PA series. Have you tried looking in the User Manual?





On-topic:

Anybody know a time-line or hear anything about availability of the PA241W-BK-SV(spectraview package)?
I know Spectraview 2 software and puck now support the PA241w, as was posted a few pages back.
But I'm eager to find a retailer--even NEC--who lists the SV package as available.
 
Anybody know a time-line or hear anything about availability of the PA241W-BK-SV(spectraview package)?
I know Spectraview 2 software and puck now support the PA241w, as was posted a few pages back.
But I'm eager to find a retailer--even NEC--who lists the SV package as available.

The SpectraView bundle with the PA241W will be several weeks out still. If you want it ASAP, your best bet is to buy the display and SVII-KIT separately for now.
 
Maybe we can use some sort of "Linear Polarizer Film" on the display's that are affected with glow, im sure you can get some sort of anti-glare filter or film ?
 
Anybody know a time-line or hear anything about availability of the PA241W-BK-SV(spectraview package)?
I know Spectraview 2 software and puck now support the PA241w, as was posted a few pages back.
But I'm eager to find a retailer--even NEC--who lists the SV package as available.

This is a reply I got on an email send to NEC where I asked when the spectraview version will be available and if sv2 software will work on european pa241's. Maybe you were asking about the american version but I guess it's interesting info anyway for those who care:

Dear All,


SpectraView Reference241 will be available in Europe in May. SpectraView Reference241 will be delivered including Hood and SpectraView Profiler software.
SpectraView in general is a European Product and not available in the US

SpectaView 2 software is a local solution of the US market and is not determined for European market as well as this software will not be supported
in Europe. Details to Spectraview 2 software can only be answered by NEC America.

Best Regards

Markus

For holland you can find it listed in some shops already. No stock yet though, as with the pa241w.
 
I bought a pa241w two days ago. Have to say, I'm very pleased. SRGB mode is much better than 90 series. It really is like having two monitors in one: srgb and full gamut. Multiprofiler is also very handy although it seems a bit buggy right now on my mac (spinning beach ball comes up more often than I'd like and some errors that have been documented on NEC's website.)

The only problem I've noticed so far is that the screen does not wake up from deep sleep sometimes. I have it connected by displayport to my Mac Pro and it happens every once and a while. Might be a diplayport or graphics card problem though.

All in all, I'm very happy with it. I got mine through overstock.com with a 10% off coupon for $960 shipped which I couldn't pass up (and no stuck pixels either.)

Oh, I should note that I had a U2711 last month and these two monitors are not in the same category. The pa241w color is much more accurate, the srgb mode is better, the uniformity is better, and my eyes don't get as fatigued with the NEC.
 
Last edited:
Hi,
I spent most of the recent days reading this thread and the others about 2490 and one thought that was most of the time in my mind was "I'll believe it when I see it"

I already got Dell u2711 and I'm going to return it for one reason only. It has this sparkly grainy AG coating that makes everything not what it is when seen on other monitors or printed. I create images and designs and all I need is a decent feedback that is as good as possible about how my work will look on the intended media. In the short period I've been using it, with the exception of some flaws that are not deal breaker, Dell u2711 would have been adequate for my needs if the AG coating was not such a serious problem. The most surprising thing for me was the fact that all reviews that I read didn't mentioned this at all, and furthermore a lot of users don't find this to be a problem. The good thing is that Dell has an excellent customer satisfaction policy which allows me to return the monitor if not happy because they don't have u2711 on display anywhere.

Now, since I started to consider a Nec monitor, I'm looking to see the desired Nec monitor before I buy it and if not possible what Nec customer satisfaction policy is in that regard.
I live in Toronto Canada and tried to contact Nec Display to find out about this. I left two messages last week on their North American contact number that covers Canada, but so far no one called me. I tried to use their web site (which by the way is very poorly designed for that purpose) to locate places in Canada (100 miles from Toronto) where I can go and see the desired Nec monitor. I called all listed dealers (which are only a few) and they said that they don't have any Nec monitors on display and will not accept a return if I don't like the monitor.
So far I found only one Canadian on line seller that said they will allow 15 days return for LCD2490WUXi2 but first I'm not sure if that was very well communicated, and second now I change my choice to PA241W and they don't have that one.

I'm hoping to get some advice about how to deal with this problem. I really don't want to pay over a grand for a product that I may find inadequate without the possibility to see it or return it in case I don't like it.
Your input will be greatly appreciated.
 
They have put up the PA271 on their website now.
Fair pricing, only $320 more than the PA241. :)


PA241W
$1,079.00
Estimated Street Price
PA271W
$1,399.00
Estimated Street Price

No pricing info for us europeans yet though, checked both the English and the German website. Hopefully the difference will be about the same.


...

For holland you can find it listed in some shops already. No stock yet though, as with the pa241w.

Ah, cool, checked that price tracker and Dutch shops charged ~1400 euros for the PA271. Seems reasonable.
 
This is a lot of money for a monitor. To be honest, I'm not even really looking for perfect, accurate color reproduction, just something uniform with no backlight issues, clouding, (with) pivot capability, etc.

Is the price difference over the EA231WMI-BK justified?

EDIT: When is the PA27 going to be available in the US?
 
This is a lot of money for a monitor. To be honest, I'm not even really looking for perfect, accurate color reproduction, just something uniform with no backlight issues, clouding, (with) pivot capability, etc.

Is the price difference over the EA231WMI-BK justified?

EDIT: When is the PA27 going to be available in the US?

NEC 90 series (and the PA series is replacing the 90 series) have always been a lot of money. They are top quality, and you have to pay if you want that. They may have features you don't want.

I really like my 2690WUXi.
 
I really like my 2690WUXi.
+1 going to be rocking mine for quite a while longer yet, will take 120 Hz + low latency + IPS to make me switch. Maybe 2011.
 
.... They are top quality, and you have to pay if you want that....
High price doesn't necessarily mean top quality. There are other dynamics that can make price higher such as wrong business model and failure to identify potential markets that can be provided with products derived from the same investment spent for developing products for a niche market.
 
PA241W
$1,079.00
Estimated Street Price
PA271W
$1,399.00
Estimated Street Price

It seems they put up the Spectraview II model pricing (+$250) as well:

PA241W-BK-SV
$1,329.00

PA271W-BK-SV
$1,649.00

*FIXED* NEC made a typo (1920x1440 native resolution) on both the PA271W-BK and PA271W-BK-SV product pages. *FIXED*

Interestingly, the User Manual mentions that the PA271W-BK doesn't even have 1920x1440 as a supported resolution. This seems kind of odd considering most other common 4:3 resolutions are supported. Another typo or does the PA271W really not support 1920x1440?
 
Last edited:
They have put up the PA271 on their website now.
Fair pricing, only $320 more than the PA241. :)


PA241W
$1,079.00
Estimated Street Price
PA271W
$1,399.00
Estimated Street Price

No pricing info for us europeans yet though, checked both the English and the German website. Hopefully the difference will be about the same.




Ah, cool, checked that price tracker and Dutch shops charged ~1400 euros for the PA271. Seems reasonable.


If you google, you can find the PA241W in the US for for $900 or in general under $1000 without the SpectraView II
 
I updated the original post again. I've posted all of the reviews I know of for the PA241W. If someone is aware of another let me know and I'll add it to the list. Also, if you see any information that looks incorrect or even something worth noting send me a PM or mention it here.
 
EDIT:
seems that the PRAD review has been posted normally, so the admins can delete my post.
 
Last edited:
I ordered the PA241W today and have two more questions:

1. Is it correct that the current version of the spectraview II software doesn't allow you to hardware calibrate the srgb mode? And if so, are there plans to implement this in future versions?

The mode created by SpectraView II will be full color gamut. Create or select a Picture Mode for sRGB on the OSD or MultiProfiler if you need to work in an sRGB environment.

2. Can anyone indicate the benefits / differences of using a wide-gamut Nec branded colorimeter vs a standard one like the eyeonedisplay2. The Nec colorimeter isn't available in europe but are there any widegamut capable alternatives?
 
The Nec colorimeter isn't available in europe but are there any widegamut capable alternatives?
NEC doesn't implement correction matrices in SV II (at least in the versions I was able to test). Therefore I would strongely recommend the NEC version. According to the description it should be trained for a WCG-CCFL spectrum (and I suppose that NEC also uses selected models with a better inter-instrument agreement than the standard EOD2). Only alternative is a spectrophotometer.

Because the NEC has extensive OSD options and a very good factory calibration, you will also achieve good results with virtually no loss of tonal values when performing a software calibration (at least with the "usual" calibration targets). In this case I would recommend the Quato Silver Haze Pro Bundle (DTP94 + iColor Display) if available for you. Quato implements generic corrections for WCG-CCFL backlights. In collaboration with the DTP94 (better inter-instrument agreement than the EOD2) this works quite good and is much better than a calibration that is based on wrong readings.

Best regards

Denis
 
Last edited:
...I would recommend the Quato Silver Haze Pro Bundle (DTP94 + iColor Display) if available for you.

Best regards

Denis

A question: do you consider the above to be a better solution than using the Lacie Blue Eye Pro bundle , as it seems to be at a lower price range or is it another product?
Does the DTP94 have the ability to "analyze" WCG monitors?
 
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
A question: do you consider the above to be a better solution than using the Lacie Blue Eye Pro bundle
I think that Lacie implements corrections for their own WCG screens (like Eizo in Color Navigator) but it seems that there are no generic corrections (have for example a look at the readings of tftcentral here - they are using the Lacie Blue Eye Pro bundle and the whitepoint differs a lot from the actual whitepoint of the NEC in this mode, even though a comparison based on the CCT (we have measured ~6400K via the EyeOne Pro) is very vague). So you should take the Quato bundle.

Does the DTP94 have the ability to "analyze" WCG monitors?
No. It differes considerably from the CIE standard observer (that would be the requirement for a colorimeter that could measure every screen - you will not find such a device in the consumer sector*; one alternative is a spectrophotometer that has other limitations but generally works good with WCG-CCFL screens) but has a good inter-instrument agreement which is one requirement for a good result concerning a correction like in iColor. The inorganic filters are also quite resistant to age. Look also here and here.

Best regards

Denis

*
This device should be OK but I can say nothing about pricing (a consumer spectrophotometer will almost certain be way cheaper) and there is the problem with software compatibility
 
Last edited:
thanks for the input Denis!
quite insightful stuff..
so, for the layman: although the DTP-94b is not as accurate as EyeOne Pro Rev D as is (and is slower), it becomes more accurate in dark tones and is recommended for WCG CCFL monitors with a proper software like i-color. Plus it is more long lasting and cheaper :)

this may sound naive but here goes:
based on:
prad.de said:
Currently, no software we know of officially supports the integration of individual correction matrices
does this mean that no high end software includes wcg monitor corrections for a range of displays (NEC, HP, DELL etc) in conjunction with the equivalent colorimeters?
 
Last edited:
does this mean that no high end software includes wcg monitor corrections for a range of displays (NEC, HP, DELL etc) in conjunction with the equivalent colorimeters?
Eizo has implemented corrections in Color Navigator, Quato uses individual corrections for their own and generic corrections for WCG-CCFL displays (see here). Lacie should use corrections for their own screens and HP delivers a selected OEM EOD2 with the LP2480zx (I can't say if the correction is implemented in software or hardware in this case because the OEM EOD2 only works with the HP software). NEC offers "their" version of an EOD2.

no software we know of officially supports the integration of individual correction matricesen combined with a proper software like i-color.
No individual but as you can see in the linked DELL review the generic correction usually leads to feasible results (compare the DTP94 and DTP94 (generic cor.) column) - at least when using the DTP94 with its good inter-instrument agreement.

Best regards

Denis
 
Just edited my post, as there was a mistakenly pasted quote from the prad review in my sentence you quoted, so it may not have made sense...
So you suggest using icolor with the "Wide Gamut S- IPS generic" and DTP94 for optimal results in mid range WG monitors like the Dell U2410, HP2475 etc.

For what its worth, I think Quatos are just rebranded SV NEC's, but is the bottom line on higher end models from eizo, nec, quato, lacie etc. to use their own software & hw solution with their own displays?
 
:) Almost.
Indeed, "it seems like a more accurate reproduction of the colour space".
This is the Dell 2408 sRGB mode known to have one of the best color space matching on paper and one of the worse picture quality in reality.

well that chart doesn't show the Y coordinate, maybe those are way off and it shows nothing about the WB which might be way off

and maybe it was measured with a non-wide gamut probe so the result isn't valid to begin with?
 
Using the CIE chromaticity diagram is problematic for a number of reasons.

a) It is not perceptual uniform (even true for the Lab color space but here it is much worse)

b) The position of the three primaries tells us nothing about linearity* - secondary or any tertiary colors can be way off

c) It is often misinterpreted when comparing actual values to references without chromatic adaptation (the black sRGB-triangle in HCFR is for example always relative to D65 but the measurements are not adapted from their actual white point)

and maybe it was measured with a non-wide gamut probe
Should be not too problematic. At least with the DTP94 I have made the experience that the measured values are - relative to the wrong whitepoint (non 72% NTSC CCFL spectrum) - correct => If you adapt chromatically from this whitepoint to the same basis you will get comparable results with an EyeOne Pro as reference. But corrections are of course necessary because the whitepoint otherwise is way off your desired one (especially also far away from the blackbody curve).

Best regards

Denis

*
This is of course also true for a representation in Lab out of a matrix profile. The programs extract the primaries and imply a gradation for calculation of the nodes. If there was a non linearity regarding the primaries (example: Custom color mode of DELL U2410) already the primaries in the ICC profile are off because they were "forced normalized" during profilation to get a valid profile.
 
Last edited:
Should be not too problematic. At least with the DTP94 I have made the experience that the measured values are - relative to the wrong whitepoint (non 72% NTSC CCFL spectrum) - correct => If you adapt chromatically from this whitepoint to the same basis you will get comparable results with an EyeOne Pro as reference. But corrections are of course necessary because the whitepoint otherwise is way off your desired one (especially also far away from the blackbody curve).

i doubt whoever made that chart did that sort of stuff though
 
Ok, this is going to be an usual question. Will the 3090WXQI work for gaming? I'm worried that the color profile might get overwritten in a game and it seems I heard somewhere that most of the OSD controls were software.
 
I was wondering how ever the brightness and coloration people's PA241w's look on a white screen with compensation off?

On my new copy (I'll explain in a minute) the left half looks greener and darker than the entire right half with the compensator off (it really needs to be on max 5 to make it look even and under 3 it's certainly noticeable). On my first copy it was already close to perfectly even looking by level 3 and when it was off it was really only the upper left and lower right corner that looked greener.

It is a typical copy or a sub-par copy where you can easily notice a difference between the entire left and right halves when the compensator is off? Part of the reason I mention is because the first copy didn't really show this nearly as much and the replacement copy I received has a few fingerprints on the screen and looks like maybe someone's return and not a new copy (I could swear the profiler claimed it reach 1hr usage time today after more like 45-50minutes not 60 too).

(EDIT: i think it was more that the first copy just happened to be exceptionally even in regards to tinting, it seems like most IPS these do have some degree of color tinting if no compensation is used, maybe the hand picked europena specrtraview that cost 2x as much insure you a super low tint one) EDIT EDIT: of course 14.5% luminance and 200K tint variation might be a little high for $1000 class in 0 comp mode as the EIzo 2422 review complained about similar numbers (OTOH the NEC does let you reduce CR to smooth it out and that EIZO does not) by compensation level 3 it seems like it is down to something vaguely like 2.7% and 50K.


Anyway as for why I got a second copy:
My first copy definitely had something wrong with it in regards to black levels/contrast ratio/backlight bleed/bezel. As it turns out I definitely was not just being too picky.

My first copy had edge bleed evident along the top and when I pressed the bezel it would sink in up there (and only up there) and change the brightness of the screen. My new copy has a solid bezel all around. I can't make it sink in easily anywhere and I don't notice edge bleed. I think the edge bleed was actually leaking out across most of the first screen and washing it out. So something gave out on the physical construction of the first copy that made the bezel come loose along the upper part (again with teh first copy the bezel had a lot of give at the top and you could easily feel it rise up and down when you pressed on it there and you coudl see the screen darken when you pressed it in hard), either straight from NEC or perhaps damaged during shipping (the outer box did have one corner bashed in).

The center part of the screen now measures a whopping 50% darker than the first copy had and the center is 25% darker than the single darkest spot anywhere on the first copy (which was just a tiny little patch near one corner, most was closer to the center levels) and a good 40% deeper on average across the screen!

I think I may have been too harsh with my comments regarding the black levels of IPS screens because of that.

Now they are certainly weak in terms of black level and contrast ratio, by maybe a factor of 6x, compared to the best S-PVA HDTVs (ok, not fair comparison) and still lag the very best few PVA computer monitors by a large 1.5-2x-ish but the numbers I'm getting now seem perfectly fine a computer monitor and no worse than my old PVA actually and in line with many current PVAs (even better than a few) and none of the super deep black PVA monitors have driving electronics of even close to the same quality.

Anyway on the new one, the black levels are perfectly fine for a computer monitor and perfectly in line with a typical PVA (if not the few super-black ones) monitor. And the same, with compensator off that is, for contrast ratio.
I can get 0.14 with the NEC puck and 0.12 with DTP94b's for deepest possible black level (center screen measurement). Very good for an IPS photo monitor.
 
Last edited:
i doubt whoever made that chart did that sort of stuff though
During profile validation these adaptations are executed by the software. iColor displays shows for example also the Lab (D50) values for the measured samples. The differences between EyeOne Pro and DTP94 are low even though there is of course a great difference in whitepoint. But however: Using a profile validation for testing purposes during a review is in any case (expressiveness is very limited) not the way to go - but often exclusively used.

Best regards

Denis
 
During profile validation these adaptations are executed by the software. iColor displays shows for example also the Lab (D50) values for the measured samples. The differences between EyeOne Pro and DTP94 are low even though there is of course a great difference in whitepoint. But however: Using a profile validation for testing purposes during a review is in any case (expressiveness is very limited) not the way to go - but often exclusively used.

Best regards

Denis



I don't know, most software that I've used gives messed up locations for the primaries and presents false plots when used on wide gamut monitors without the proper puck. I didn't catch where he said he got the chart from, but there is no saying it had to have been from iColor. Using Colormetre HCFR or Calman you get messed up primary plots when using a DTP94b on a wide gamut.

From what I can see, prad.de is just about the only review site that doesn't present totally messed up charts for wide gamut monitors so it seems to me there is no guarantee at all that the chart the other poster posted came from a review site that did things properly.
 
..talking of icolor, is there a way to calibrate both displays on a dual monitor setup like basiccolor does?
 
Just edited my post, as there was a mistakenly pasted quote from the prad review in my sentence you quoted, so it may not have made sense...
So you suggest using icolor with the "Wide Gamut S- IPS generic" and DTP94 for optimal results in mid range WG monitors like the Dell U2410, HP2475 etc.

For what its worth, I think Quatos are just rebranded SV NEC's, but is the bottom line on higher end models from eizo, nec, quato, lacie etc. to use their own software & hw solution with their own displays?

Definitely don't expect to use the Spectraview II software with a DTP94, I just tried it and WB looks to be off by 500-600K, pretty noticeable. I think the NEC puck is the way to go (or maybe if you got a good copy of the spyder3).

One curious outside of iColor 3.6 both DTP94b's give very close color temp readings but very oddly inside of iColor 3.6 they don't, they are like 250K apart. Very odd. One of the DTP94 is from the new production stock, maybe something about it somehow doesn't match the correction matrix although still leaving the results closer on normal gamut monitors???

I calibrated sRGB mode to D65 with the NEC puck and SVII and it said it gave me like 6540K (perhaps oddly SVII seems to mostly give say 30K below or 40-70K above 6500K) when I checked it in iColor 3.8 using the DTP94b's with the generic IPS wide gamut correction the older probe gave 6410K and the newer one 6640K. The older one though that red and green were matched but blue was too low and the newer one thought green was a bit too much and red too low. (which is again pretty odd because in other programs the two DTP always gave very similar results).

iColor gave fairly low dE94 from either DTP94b for the color primaries as measured by the test of the SVII+NEC puck calibration using the generic wide gamut comp matrix for DTP94b in icolor:
de94 and dE
from older probe:
R 0.6 1.3
G 0.3 1.3
B 1.0 2.9
C 0.2 0.5
M 0.8 2.2
Y 0.2 0.3
newer probe:
R 0.9 2.4
G 0.5 2.2
B 1.2 3.7
C 0.4 0.7
M 1.0 3.6
Y 0.2 0.7
 
One curious outside of iColor 3.6 both DTP94b's give very close color temp readings but very oddly inside of iColor 3.6 they don't, they are like 250K apart.
Have you the XYZ tristimulus values available?

or maybe if you got a good copy of the spyder3
One of the few colorimeters I would trust is this because it seems to match the CIE standard observer. But software compatibilty and price will be a problem.

Best regards

Denis
 
I am thinking of ordering the PA271W. If i have my own i1 display 2, can I use that to calibrate the monitor instead of buying the spectraview package?
 
Back
Top