A journey to mainstreaming (EK's adventure in tech-land)

Discussion in 'Water Cooling' started by Aenra, Apr 20, 2018.

  1. Aenra

    Aenra Limp Gawd

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    Don't know if you've seen this?

    https://www.ekwb.com/news/ek-is-releasing-pre-built-fully-liquid-cooled-gaming-pcs/

    Yessir, now on top of aluminum "water cooling" ""gear"", overpriced AIOs that fall behind everyone else's, RGBBGBG pump remakes and plastic pump volutes and reservoirs? We also make pre-built PCs! With cablemods!
    Pwnage!!11!

    Because who needs hardcore, when all the money is in the mainstream.. true.
    If you were one of the people that wondered what was to be past the departing of certain key individuals, well, now you know the glorious new direction the company is taking.

    Join now, post your pre-built PC pics in Instagram. You too can be cool. Zorz.
     
  2. Aenra

    Aenra Limp Gawd

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    And apologies for the tone, but this is really bad news. Have stopped bothering with EK the instant i saw the likes of Watercool.de, Aqua Computer, Hardware Labs, etc.
    But the fact remains this was a company with some exceptionally good engineers, providing a small niche with some -originally at least- exceptionally good equipment. It's not merely their going by the wayside, it's also what it entails, clientele-wise. Think mentality shift, think misconceptions, think hype and 99% of the social "media" being focused on bling rather than substance.
    One by one, we see them going the same route, leaving us normal effing people with normal effing priorities with fewer and fewer alternatives; never a good thing.

    Anyway :)
     
  3. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    I share your overall sentiment, but I question your definition of "Normal" in this section.

    Building your own PC with a custom cooling loop is still decidedly in the extreme unusual geek category.

    Normal people:
    - would rather buy a premade system than build one

    - would rather game on a console than bother with a gaming PC

    - don't understand why anyone would want a desktop when laptops and tablets exist

    - think wired Ethernet is an 80's technology. Why isn't everything wireless already?

    - say things like "yeah, I have a laptop but I never use it anymore, because my iPhone does everything I need"

    People who build their own PC's. Decidedly not normal.

    People who build custom water cooling loops. Not normal even among people who build their own PC's.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
  4. Aenra

    Aenra Limp Gawd

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    O.K., granted, lol, but i didn't mean it like so!
    Normal as in we don't want circus lights, bubbles, lightning effects and bling factor you know? Normal as in yes, sure, we're a niche, but in a hobby 101% about numbers. Number dammit, not colors. Not saying looks need be discarded altogether, or that one should not take some overall care in their management, but when i see adults going wild about UV reactive coolants with fountain bubble effects reservoirs i get an aneurysm ^^
    It has all kinda shifted into some superficial, shallow.. i don't know, culture? It's scary, science is about numbers.

    A few days back, i was asked to give advice about a motherboard; so fool me, i was going on and on, this, that, 'x' downside, 'y' advantage, blah blah blah. The reply? One line, "i don't like silver".

    Maybe i'm not normal anymore, lol
     
  5. guitarslingerchris

    guitarslingerchris Failure is just success rounded down

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    So is this just a thread to get people to feed your need for confirmation bias about your narrow-minded feelings on the state of EK and the direction of the industry?
     
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  6. Aenra

    Aenra Limp Gawd

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    Your powers of deduction are only matched by the depth of your critical thinking dear. I stand in awe.
     
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  7. GoldenTiger

    GoldenTiger 3.5GB GTX 970 Slayer

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    Me too.
     
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  8. VanGoghComplex

    VanGoghComplex [H]ard|Gawd

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    So... Where's the announcement that EK is going to stop manufacturing their quality line of well-engineered enthusiast custom watercooling equipment?

    Did I miss that announcement?
     
  9. SOAREVERSOR

    SOAREVERSOR [H]Lite

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    Everything has been bling since the x58 era, this isn't a new change.
     
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  10. Aenra

    Aenra Limp Gawd

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    Yes.. and no :)
    It's getting worse, it's getting increasingly common to the point where it is considered the norm rather than a visual bonus/gimmick.

    Will remind there have been reivews whose scores negatively reflected the lack of RGB, will remind there have been entire shipments of RAM SKUs that underperformed because of integrated RGB (famous brand too), will remind that that we're nearing a point where buying a chassis for grownups is nigh impossible (when last have you checked? It's disheartening), will remind of horrible motherboards that have been praised nonetheless because their RGB could sync, hell, will remind of recent controllers who suck donkey balls but hey, they can sync too, so 10/10!
    And i could go on. It really is getting worse and we'll pay for that too.
    (some folks already are paying the price, but that's due to lack of knowledge on their part; what happens when alternatives no longer exist? For the rest of us?)

    Now as stated above, a business is a business and good for them if this all works out (EK), but the people they originally catered to? They lose out of this; some just aren't aware of it yet, is all.
     
  11. SOAREVERSOR

    SOAREVERSOR [H]Lite

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    I've been building computers since the 386/486 era and this has always been the trend. There is nothing new here.

    And the fact that you tout AquaComputer of all damn things of not being bling and not part of the problem is hilarious.
     
  12. Aenra

    Aenra Limp Gawd

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    There's nothing hilarious in any of this; there is something depressing however, your inability in terms of reading comprehension and worse still, your being unaware of it (or you wouldn't have reached to conclusions so easily, now would you).

    I mentioned a number of companies, not one, focusing on different products, not one, that are still catering to those interested in performance first and everything else second. That is a fact, they do and do it still.
    If you lack the mental prowess to distinguish between a company's "diversifying" so as to stay viable* while remaining true to its audience and a company that by now sells plastic (everything EK makes is of plastic), RGB and "ready made" stuff for the masses, the fault is on you, not me.

    * hence my mentioning 'norms' above

    I find the need to point this out very often, forums are not for everyone. One must first be capable of thinking; then of tempering whatever outcome said thinking amounts to by contrasting it with empirical facts, what is commonly referred to as critical thinking; lastly, one must be capable of comprehending the mindset and viewpoint of other fellow posters. It's only then one should feel comfy with pressing the 'post' button.

    ** not incidentally, chances are you've even got your brands confused.. you meant Aquatuning most likely, not Aqua Computer. Vastly different companies ^^
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2018
  13. rgMekanic

    rgMekanic [H]ard|News Staff Member

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    I never saw the announcement that they had started
     
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  14. Aenra

    Aenra Limp Gawd

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    Oooh, you meanie ^^
    Though to be fair, they did once. And then some, in fact. The fin design so common now inside most waterblocks? Of any a company? Theirs. Redesigning/reconceptualising for both laminar and turbulent flow? Theirs too. First company to sport products of a performance metric you may now think of as 'expected', but which was no way near what the norm was back then.

    The problem is they somehow got.. stuck? Had nothing new to show for a very, very long time, still don't. On the contrary, what did come up in the meantime was issues. Fans, fittings, coolant, rads, leaky units; not altogether, not without being fixed, not without perfectly healthy intervals, but issues nonetheless. Then we got a restructuring (where basically everyone worth a damn said bye bye) and now we've got.. this.
    They had the engineers and it showed. Which is why this is bad. You wouldn't see me lamenting just any company's going mainstream.
     
  15. VanGoghComplex

    VanGoghComplex [H]ard|Gawd

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    Okay so you're bemoaning the "mainstreaming" (whatever the elitist fuck-all that means) of a company that you... didn't really seem to like to begin with?

    I'm really confused by threads like this. A more diverse product line will lead to more sales which will better fund R&D, generally speaking. You don't have to buy the "mainstream" products.
     
  16. Aenra

    Aenra Limp Gawd

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    That is evident.
    The issue arises when one is confused despite having all the data/info available :)

    But to assist:
    - They had great products. Once
    - They've had nothing new to show. Since
    - Now they're going the other way entirely. One less alternative for the very people they catered to, the very people that made them what they are
    - This is a trend that yes, has occured before, but no, does not mean it's any less important just because we've seen it before. Hence the OP

    Sincerely hope this helps.
    And no offense, you've all got every right in the world to disagree with me. But how the %$## can so many of you be literally incapable of grasping what i'm trying to say? Again, doesn't matter if you agree or not, it's that you appear to have issues grasping it in the first place. I must have explained what i mean (and why) like 4 or 5 times by now.. is this Aspie heaven? Did i knock on the wrong door? :)
     
  17. VanGoghComplex

    VanGoghComplex [H]ard|Gawd

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    Maybe I'm just not coming from the same experiential reference point as you. I'm relatively new to the PC watercooling scene, and while I consider myself a quick study of the technical aspects, I don't have the historical perspective of someone who's been with it longer.

    That said, my first post was serious, rgMekanic's (admittedly funny) snark notwithstanding: you say EK had a good streak wherein they innovated and brought some of the best-performing gear to market that anyone has ever seen at the time. So... are they going to stop making that stuff now?

    Obviously, you (and I) are not in the target market for aluminum watercooling gear and prebuilts. What I'm not following is the logical progression from "they're expanding theirv product lines to new markets" to "this directly hurts those of us with continued interest in their enthusiast-grade product portfolio."
     
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  18. Aenra

    Aenra Limp Gawd

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    Well, as i see it, you've got the chronology as outlied above. What they did once but never again, how it all paused, how they lost key figures (which is major, a lot of us were wondering "now what?"). Now keeping all that in mind, what have they done recently? More aluminum kits for mainstream audiences (and nothing for the original clientele), an AIO that costs twice-thrice what the others do while it performs worst/equal to them (and again, an AIO! Nothing like what they once sold), and now? A Build-it-for-You PC outlet..
    Can you not connect the dots? Direction-wise, how it all looks like? :)

    It's good money for them, if this works, no doubt there. But, assuming you've linked the dots, it's bad for us. Don't know if you've ever owned a business, but when your see the 'main' products not only becoming stale, but in fact never being re-iterated? And instead, a listing of new, on first glance unrelated products on sale? Direction shift.
    Lastly, they've made some good money already, all these years. They must have had some R&D.. where? Where did all the money thrown back in go to? How many years of nothing do you need before things start to show? And if up to now you gave them the benefit of the doubt, what now when they've shown you? :)
     
  19. VanGoghComplex

    VanGoghComplex [H]ard|Gawd

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    I see the logic there, but I'm confused at your assertion that they're not making anything new in the enthusiast department. Heck, I just bought a Z370 monoblock. I've seen ads for Titan V waterblocks from EK since before the Titan V launched. How are you able to say that they aren't keeping up in that regard?
     
  20. Aenra

    Aenra Limp Gawd

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    I mentioned that too.. they're re-using their old designs, while also never having stepped it up in the material quality department. Where they have stepped it up, is issues. You said you're new so you may or may not be aware, but i am.
    For the kind of money you paid for that block, you could have bought something made from better materials and having a better cooling performance (the two not related; one has to do with longevity, reusability and ease of mind, the other with temps). That's because (mostly) everyone else kept improving.
    So again, when i see nothing new (in terms of design, not product) in this category, but plenty in the 'let's rake it in boys!' department, me, i worry. But to each their own.

    * Hype has its own trail, i know and understand why they still sell. This does not mean i'm wrong though; that's what hype does, convinces and the facts notwithstanding.
     
  21. VanGoghComplex

    VanGoghComplex [H]ard|Gawd

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    I don't know. I can't personally verify any of that. I can say that EK is the only company that offers a monoblock for my motherboard at all, and that the monoblock preforms on par (better than, but within margin of error) with the Watercool Heatkiller IV that it replaced. That's certainly anecdotal, but I'm curious where other companies have advanced in ways that EK has not.
     
  22. Aenra

    Aenra Limp Gawd

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    I don't know you, so cannot judge your findings.
    I can be honest however and say that while i cannot know, i sincerely doubt this is the case; in fact if anything, all you've told me is that most likely, most likely mind, i may be wrong, you don't know how to measure this.

    How many thermally conductive stages between your silicon and the rad? What the quality of each of those? What and how many a rad? What and how tightly controlled your testing ambients? If your system is already saturated for example, you won't be able to see a difference anyway, but that's due to your setup, doesn't mean it's not there.
     
  23. VanGoghComplex

    VanGoghComplex [H]ard|Gawd

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    My testing methodology isn't lab-accurate, but it's repeatable. The EK block showed a consistent 5°c lower temperature across all cores in what otherwise was the same system, with the same ambient temperature, allowed to reach full heatsoak on the same CPU/GPU benchmark run simultaneously.

    I mean... I seriously doubt you'll be convinced, given your immediate leap to discredit/invalidate my findings, that I know what I'm doing. But I believe my results are accurate.
     
  24. Aenra

    Aenra Limp Gawd

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    You've got your empirical findings, i've got mine; i was merely being careful and i'd have hoped my phrasing was sufficient to showcase that, but yet again, you appear not to have grasped that.
    Simply put however, no, i've no bias that prevents me from accepting your claims if that's what you're implying. I just cannot discount mine, or those of others, even more experienced than myself. Agree to disagree and all that.

    Now unless your specific Z370 monoblock is all it takes for you to judge an entire company, with your limited experience to boot, i'd appreciate it if we didn't derail this any further. While it may have escaped you, i was talking designs and the future. You got stuck on a single product using a much older fin design; and on the present. Hopefully you're not confused about this too, as three times would surely be the charm.
     
  25. VanGoghComplex

    VanGoghComplex [H]ard|Gawd

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    You're an abrasive, condescending shit, y'know that?

    I won't derail any further. Have fun bitching.