HardOCP News
[H] News
- Joined
- Dec 31, 1969
- Messages
- 0
I can't decide whether this is the coolest thing I've ever seen or the craziest. Either way, I still want to see a video of one of these things in action.
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
A Gun Shaped Like A Cell Phone
- Thread starter HardOCP News
- Start date
- Status
HardOCP News
[H] News
- Joined
- Dec 31, 1969
- Messages
- 0
As long as every conversation you have with the police (when you are carrying) starts with "Excuse me officer..." and you explain that you are lawfully carrying a firearm and where it is, you'll never have a problem.
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
- Messages
- 44,154
When a weapon can be disguised as anything it sort of supports shooting first and asking questions later.
Agreed.
Laws will vary per state. In more restrictive states like California, there's a good chance it's illegal even with CCW due to extra laws which prohibit firearms that can resemble other objects (Cal P.C. 24510, for example).
Cool weapon, definitely wanna make sure you're up close and personal with your target though, I wouldn't think it's got much power behind it.
Most people should know that the dissenters typically consist of a vast minority. I'd wager that 90-95% of the police force is out there trying to do their job the right way. I'm not saying corruption and bad cops don't exist, I'm just saying I don't think it's some epic, out of control percentage.
Where are you from? I imagine I know some pretty good stereotypes about your country/state that aren't particularly accurate.
Most people should know that the dissenters typically consist of a vast minority. I'd wager that 90-95% of the police force is out there trying to do their job the right way. I'm not saying corruption and bad cops don't exist, I'm just saying I don't think it's some epic, out of control percentage.
No, shooting first and asking questions later is not the way policing should be done. If you treat an officer with respect, even in a disagreement, and communicate your actions there's a lot less likely chance that they're gonna draw on you.
D
Deleted member 245375
Guest
Company website said:
Seriously? That's the solution? Fake cell phones that are actual guns that will go on to cause more problems than it's worth. I could beat someone to death with my actual cell phone faster than they could transform theirs into a gun.
Just when I didn't think humanity could get any more fucking stupid, I find myself constantly surprised at the new and rather insidious methods humanity just keeps inventing.
As someone that has personally witnessed how police officers react when someone says "Excuse me, officer..." and then goes on to state they are carrying a concealed weapon - whether they are doing it lawfully or not - I'd have an issue agreeing with that statement. The situation got out of hand very quickly, even in spite of the person telling the officer they were carrying legally and it just went to prove to me that people will overreact first and if and when things do calm down and all the information becomes clear only then do things become better.
The world doesn't need more guns, it needs to get rid of the ones we already have - and when I say get rid of guns I mean all of them, personal, private, military, law enforcement, all of 'em, period. They have proven over the span of humanity that we simply don't need the damned things, we never really did.
That's my opinion and I'm stickin' to it.
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
- Messages
- 44,154
Sure. But the problem still is that if anything can be a weapon both police and civilians can more legitimately make claims that they felt threatened in a particular situation. What is someone just pulls out a real cellphone without trying to be a jerk or hurting someone. "He pulled out a cellphone, which could have been a gun, I felt threatened." That is a legal claim that could me made to justify improper use of deadly force. Of course these kinds of claims have been made before, nothing new. But camouflaged weapons I think strengthen the point.
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
- Messages
- 44,154
I totally agree, I'm just saying that things like this don't make things easier. The whole point of camouflaged weapons is deception. And I can easily see where someone having a weapon like this, would only make some cops even more suspicious and fearful.
CreatedTheMultiverse
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2016
- Messages
- 339
Sharp objects and rocks, too. However in reality that's just damn near impossible to enforce. Someone would keep making them to have the advantage over everyone else = shooting fish in a barrel. Plus removing all the weapons in the world just means we go back to the biggest and baddest guys bullying everyone else. No thanks, I'll keep my weapons as it gives me the right to defend myself against men that would otherwise have a size advantage over me.
amddragonpc
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2012
- Messages
- 1,996
If I'm going to carry a two-shot pistol, I'll carry a Derringer. Nah, on second thought, I'll just stick to Ruger LCR in .357.
tempertantrum
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2009
- Messages
- 395
That assumes that you even get a chance to say something, which is easier for some than others, to put it nicely.
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
- Messages
- 44,154
If one got pulled over, even for something minor and having a clean record, if that person's name is Ahmed Mohamed, even if he were carrying a weapon like this legally, well, I don't think people have think about it too hard in today's climate just how many things could not go well there.
Ah typical. Always having to conjure up some fantasy situation to push your point.
D
Deleted member 245375
Guest
The problem is the "one click" thing, I'd say. It's bad enough that someone could have a concealed weapon on them meaning it's out of visual sight, now we have to deal with devices like this one that are flat out deceptive in their appearance.
So cops or whoever won't be thinking "Ok, is this idiot with the cell phone trying to call for help, record me, or... <click>" and all hell breaks loose.
What I find more disturbing than the fact that this type of device is apparently now in production is the fact that someone thought it was worth investing money in to begin with and feels it's perfectly justifiable to potentially own.
DukenukemX
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2005
- Messages
- 7,922
Can't see anything wrong there. Nope, nothing at all. Totally perfect.
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
- Messages
- 44,154
Deathroned
Gawd
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2015
- Messages
- 554
meh guns are for toddlers, rifles are for boys Bazookas are for Men
I'm definitely not surprised some folks thought they could make money on this, they will, I am surprised that this got whatever approval they needed to mass produce this. As you said, we are now dealing with a device deceptive in appearance and this worries me. That and the fact it is made to look like a device that most people have on them at all times. That said, can't wait to see the AR 16 model made to look like an Ipad....
Indeed.
While there are certainly some examples that point to this stereo type being valid, such cases are rarities, not the norm.
It would depend on the caliber, but gripping it could definitely be awkward.
In the State of Texas it would.
I've run into a few dick officers that were just total shit bags. This isn't the norm, but it does happen. In any case you want to be as compliant as possible and if there is a real disagreement, take it to the courts.
You act like this is a new thing. Keep in mind that guns have been disguised as cane's and pens as soon as it was technologically feasible. Guns are also hidden inside fanny packs and other common objects all the time. In the dark, a phone could easily be mistaken for a firearm and I'm sure it has happened. What's in your hand is less important than how you are acting toward officers. If you are pointing anything at them aggressively and it looks like a gun you will probably get shot. Police in fear for their lives will react like anyone else might.
This device doesn't change anything.
You don't go up to a cop, or tell when that walks up to your car; "Hey I've got a gun!" You play stupid games, you will win stupid prizes. The RIGHT way to do this is to present your driver's license and concealed carry permit to the officer when asked for ID. Then they will know you have a weapon legally, and treat you the way the law says they need to.
As for your comment about guns, I don't agree. If it wasn't guns it would be other weapons. Hacking people up with swords is far messier and I'd frankly rather be shot. Guns also make things equal between an 80 year old man and a 20 year old thug. They are called the great equalizer for a reason. Guns are also used for hunting which can feed people or for sport shooting which is just damned good fun.
Again, lots of people have had things in their hands and used threatening gestures and have been shot. This device won't change that.
I can't look at the link at work.
No idea. I suspect it's basically a derringer with an awkward grip.
Last edited:
I think your right. Cost analysis has shown spears and swords have a much higher return on investment then firearms
bloodhawke83
I Strike Fear into the Hearts of the Masses
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2010
- Messages
- 8,382
they been shooting people with cell phones for a while now.
What's wrong with having a concealed weapon on you?
A couple more years of Arizona stats will either prove you right, or prove you wrong.
I gota throw some more gasoline on this one.
In Arizona, you don't even need a permit to carry. Anyone who can legally possess a firearm can carry it on their hip, in their pocket, in their car, on the seat in the open, in the glove box, whatever.
Today in Arizona, unless otherwise prohibited by Law, the State doesn't care who or where the guns are. Only what some people are doing with them. Time to put this "guns are evil" stupidity to bed once and for all.
Of course this is my opinion.
HardOCP News
[H] News
- Joined
- Dec 31, 1969
- Messages
- 0
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
- Messages
- 44,154
I agree. But weapons like this only make that situation worse. The point of a camouflaged weapon is to decieve and using that deception as an advatgae. It might make someone safer but it also creates fear and suspscion. Something the world is already briming with today.
Unless these devices become extensively widespread to the point where each and every police officer encounters them regularly, I don't think it will create any increased suspicion or danger. People have been able to conceal MP5's in briefcases for decades. Yet, no one thinks of a briefcase as a weapon.
As someone who carries a firearm whenever and wherever it is legal to do so, I can tell you that most people will not opt for such a device as a primary method of concealed carry for the same reason derringers aren't carried for personal defense very often. The limited firepower and poor ergonomics make such a weapon best relegated to use as a backup weapon or for deep concealment where your style of dress in a given situation won't allow for more traditional forms of concealed carry. I can see the benefit of such a device, but like the derringer, it would only see use very rarely. Something like a SIG P938 is a better tool for this job as it holds up to 8 shots and is in a more comfortable to use form factor. Something like this cellphone gun has two shots and probably is awkward ergonomically. It's worse than the Kel-Tec wallet guns. (Which BTW, doesn't make police automatically distrust wallets despite being on the market for a decade or more.)
No offense, but people with similar opinions to yours often shout doom and gloom and say things like: "there will be blood in the streets" if this becomes reality have been wrong each and every time. This sort of thing was said when the Federal AWB expired. It was said when the .500 Magnum came out. It was said when evil "Black Talon" bullets hit the market. The list of these false prophecies of doom being dead wrong go on and on and on.
This is a niche product at best. It will have the same impact as the wallet gun, gun cane, sword cane, pen gun, pen knife, briefcase SMG, and other similar devices. These devices trade the ability to be good weapons for being highly concealable. Anyone who actually uses weapons for personal defense isn't going to favor these things over highly concealable, conventional firearms.
I think this is a little bit over rated in all reality.
People pretty much only carry guns one of two ways, open or concealed. The concept behind this cellphone-gun is that it is a concealed carry weapon. That being said, it sort of limits us to evaluating the "camouflage" effect only as a concealed weapon and the whole point of a concealed weapon is that it isn't visible to the average observer anyway.
Anyone that does carry knows that there are issues with carrying concealed. In some States it's illegal to allow your concealed weapon to become visible, the watch words are "Concealed means concealed". Other then that, concealed carry people who accidentally do allow their weapon to become visible frequently have had to deal with people freaking out about seeing the gun. This camouflaging of the gun is not that terribly bad in concept for some concealed carry people in States where carrying concealed is more difficult.
The nice thing about gun carry laws in Arizona and some other states is that just carrying a gun or letting someone see you carrying a gun doesn't make a person a criminal. As long as you don't carry where it's illegal to do so, then if your concealed carry gun becomes visible so what, it's not a crime.
I don't see a gun like this getting a whole lot of traction in the market. In a state like Arizona the camouflage factor isn't worth giving up the capacity. And it's just too easy to put a smaller caliber auto in a pocket and going about your business. Maybe a CCW holder in Illinois where the laws are more ... particular. What does matter is the effect when the firearms is drawn, and that is best described as "degraded". It has to be deployed and it has capacity limitations that could severely limit it's effectiveness.
Anyway.
I know this isn't directly related to your point, but the post got me thinking. This gun also just looks like a cell phone. There is a certain intimidation that goes along with producing a weapon when the need arises. In many cases people who draw weapons in self-defense aren't forced to kill the assailant to resolve the situation. I speak from experience, as I have had to draw a weapon but not actually fire it. I was certainly willing, if necessary, but it didn't come to that. Pointing a cell phone at the guy wouldn't have made him back down. Him seeing the gun did.
This makes the cell phone gun even less useful.
Oh, and actually, the point of a camouflaged weapon is more to the point of extending the concept of concealability, which is to say, "out of sight, out of mind". Many people just get uncomfortable when they see someone with a gun and that's really what the whole concealed carry thing is about. It's not so you can become a human "Q Ship", it's so you don't frighten those with delicate sensibilities.
Some parents are so bad that they let their infants play with loaded guns that look like guns. Such shit ass poor fucking parenting wouldn't be altered or changed by the weapon looking like a phone. The gun looking like a phone doesn't change the fact that you need to make sure that children and other potentially irresponsible parties can't access it. Arguing that this design is more dangerous because it has a certain look to it has about the same logic to it as many of the laws against "non-sporting" weapons do. Again, there are dozens of ways to camouflage firearms as other objects, and this has not been anymore problematic than firearms in more conventional form factors. Such firearms make up a virtually infinitesimal percentage of the overall firearms on the market and in the hands of the populace today.
I'll stick to just putting this in my pocket thanx.
Wheew. I'm sure the world is glad its only your weapon and not your gun.
Actually that is a damn good point Dan. You've actually understated the truth. Self Defense stats on record have shown that when guns have been successfully used in self defense they were never fired by a great majority. Just producing the gun halted the crime. Despite how effective that sounds, you don't want to bet your life on it. If you pull it you better be prepared to have to fire it which I am sure you are well aware of yourself.
- Status