A 'consciousness conductor' synchronizes and connects mouse brain areas

erek

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“It is so exciting that we are getting closer to linking specific brain connections and actions with the ultimate puzzle of consciousness."” "Suggested by Francis Crick (co-discoverer of the molecular structure of DNA) and his colleagues: ‘the claustrum is the seat of consciousness’. "

"During sleep and awake rest, the neocortex generates large-scale slow-wave (SW) activity. Here, we report that the claustrum coordinates neocortical SW generation. We established a transgenic mouse line that enabled the genetic interrogation of a subpopulation of claustral glutamatergic neurons. These neurons received inputs from and sent outputs to widespread neocortical areas. The claustral neuronal firings mostly correlated with cortical SW activity. In vitro optogenetic stimulation of the claustrum induced excitatory postsynaptic responses in most neocortical neurons, but elicited action potentials primarily in inhibitory interneurons. In vivo optogenetic stimulation induced a synchronized down-state featuring prolonged silencing of neural activity in all layers of many cortical areas, followed by a down-to-up state transition. In contrast, genetic ablation of claustral neurons attenuated SW activity in the frontal cortex. These results demonstrate a crucial role of claustral neurons in synchronizing inhibitory interneurons across wide cortical areas for the spatiotemporal coordination of SW activity."

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-05-consciousness-conductor-synchronizes-mouse-brain.amp
 

erek

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I think we need to stop and think about whether "Artificial Consciousness" is really something we want.

I'm not convinced it is a good idea at all. Too many ethical considerations.

Zarathustra[H] -- trying to engage some real researchers in the conversation:


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Zarathustra[H]

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yeah i watch westworld too.

I'm thinking more along the lines of "Star Trek TNG - S02E09 - The Measure of a Man"

Once we can create intelligent consciousness, does it not deserve the same protections we give human consciousness? If we don't, isn't it slavery?

I don't really care what the researchers think. Researchers are often blinded by their pursuit of their interest in their field. It is incumbent's upon the rest of us to reel them in.

An enthusiast, as it were, can never be trusted to make ethical judgments about their own field. They are too close to it, and too blinded by their own interest.

Once you create an intelligent consciousness, it has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You cannot simply turn it off when your experienent is complete.

Researchers cannot be allowed to move forward and ask forgiveness rather than permission.
 
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sabrewolf732

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I'm thinking more along the lines of "Star Trek TNG - S02E09 - The Measure of a Man"

Once we can create intelligent consciousness, does it not deserve the same protections we give human consciousness? If we don't, isn't it slavery?

I don't really care what the researchers think. Researchers are often blinded by their pursuit of their interest in their field. It is incumbent's upon the rest of us to reel them in.

An enthusiast, as it were, can never be trusted to make ethical judgments about their own field. They are too close to it, and too blinded by their own interest.

Once you create an intelligent consciousness, it has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You cannot simply turn it off when your experienent is complete.

Researchers cannot be allowed to move forward and ask forgiveness rather than permission.

If that's the case where do you put animals in that equation that arguably have some degree of consciousness and a desire to live?
 

Zarathustra[H]

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If that's the case where do you put animals in that equation that arguably have some degree of consciousness and a desire to live?

They lack intelligence. It is the combination of intelligence and consciousness that is where the magic happens.

I mean, people get their knickers in a twist over abortion, but a 10 week old fetus is neither intelligent nor conscious.

It may sound like sci-fi nonsense, bit if we are on the precipice of actually creating aware artificial intelligences, sci-fi nonsense is not that far off...

I would like to see a halt on any research or development of any self learning technologies, and reverting to a time of static man-made algorithms only. The problems are just too huge to ignore.
 

sabrewolf732

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They lack intelligence. It is the combination of intelligence and consciousness that is where the magic happens.

I mean, people get their knickers in a twist over abortion, but a 10 week old fetus is neither intelligent nor conscious.

It may sound like sci-fi nonsense, bit if we are on the precipice of actually creating aware artificial intelligences, sci-fi nonsense is not that far off...

I would like to see a halt on any research or development of any self learning technologies, and reverting to a time of static man-made algorithms only. The problems are just too huge to ignore.

Many animals have a degree of intelligence and all most certainly experience pain. On that point, why do people with developmental disabilities have rights if it is solely based on intelligence?

A 10 week old fetus does not have a developed neurological system/brain. If you're talking closer to 14-16 weeks that's where it gets dicey.
 

erek

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Taco is outraged. Why is this not straight up banned? Why are we trying to "give" consciousness to AI? Why would we *want* to give consciousness to AI?!

Madness!!
I’m excited to promote and encourage artificial consciousness
 

dodo01

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Well this will be interesting when my little humanoid robot ask to get a girlfriend
 
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deton8

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I'm curious where the practical distinction between "artificial" and "natural" consciousness lies. I mean there are theories out there that early hominids experimenting with psychodelics might have been the trigger that spurred consciousness ... but would that be natural or medically induced?

This reminds me of that alien race in the Old Man's War books that got gifted consciousness by a more advanced species. I mean, once you have it, does it matter how you got it?
 

GNUse_the_force

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They lack intelligence. It is the combination of intelligence and consciousness that is where the magic happens.
I mean, people get their knickers in a twist over abortion, but a 10 week old fetus is neither intelligent nor conscious.

We might get to a weirdly paradoxical place where the exact same people who are typically against Ai and DNA alteration are defending the rights of the unborn cybernetic :confused:
 

variant

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People are going to be really disappointed with AI in the future. No amount of processing power will somehow allow it to become conscious.
 

erek

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People are going to be really disappointed with AI in the future. No amount of processing power will somehow allow it to become conscious.

at least not classical processing power, there's DNA computing or programming with DNA... somehow through all of it DNA does give rise to Consciousness...

The Claustrum Coordinates Cortical Slow-Wave Activity

and also some research has lead to the "rostral dorsolateral pontine tegmentum" and "ventral anterior insula" clusters of the brain as being related to the formation of human consciousness.

, variant
 

MaZa

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I'm curious where the practical distinction between "artificial" and "natural" consciousness lies. I mean there are theories out there that early hominids experimenting with psychodelics might have been the trigger that spurred consciousness ... but would that be natural or medically induced?

This reminds me of that alien race in the Old Man's War books that got gifted consciousness by a more advanced species. I mean, once you have it, does it matter how you got it?

As technology stands now the distinction is simply biological vs synthetic creation, flesh vs machine. But if we add hypothetical scifi organic technology in the mix, grown brains that function as alive computers then I have no idea if they should be called. Of course they are artificial constructs that do not occur naturally, but still...
 

kju1

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I would like to see a halt on any research or development of any self learning technologies, and reverting to a time of static man-made algorithms only. The problems are just too huge to ignore.

Thats rather extreme. So we should stop forward progress on a number of areas simply because there are problems? What if this paved the way to cure Alzheimer's or to enable paraplegics to directly control their limbs again via implanted chips?

It's so sad to see phrases like "researchers must ask permission". If Galileo had asked permission we would all still think the earth was the center of the universe. And yes that had HUGE ethical considerations for the time. Hell the church (the dominant authority) put him on trial for heresy for it. There is a balance that needs to be maintained between ensuring research is done in an ethical manner vs flat out controlling what people can research. Neither extreme is correct.
 

erek

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spec4d Today at 2:46 AM
From a neuroscience perspective we are conscious machines


[2:46 AM]
just biologically programmed ones


[2:47 AM]
And the term consciousness itself is so poorly defined it has no scientific meaning


[2:49 AM]
But from the Computer Science perspective they tend to look at the term as something along the lines of a self programing agent that can decide it's own goals and learn from and interact with it's environment to achieve those goals. This definition would apply to humans, most mammals, and even some other animals.(edited)


[2:50 AM]
There is an entire book on the subject of what consciousness is by a very respected PhD. I found it too obvious and basic because I have a small background in AI, but you'd probably like it


[2:50 AM]
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0465030793?tag=duckduckgo-ffab-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1


[2:53 AM]
Sorry if that sounds condescending. Consciousness is not a simple subject. I'm just saying I arrived to many of the same conclusions as Hofstadter through other sources(reading AI research and about the failures of early AI projects and some thought expiriments).
 

Eivind68

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One thing they're goid at right now is changing the subject. Perhaps their 'creators' are aware of the limited power AI possess at this point, so they try to mask it with questions that steer away towards general conversations or to make test subject(you) do all the hardcore talking.
It is basically Eliza 2.0. I'm not losing any sleep over this just yet, people were excited and worried about robots in the 1950s as well.
 
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