They already surpassed them. I didn't pay $400 for my x299 board like I did for my x670e Tachi.
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9950X and 9950X3D is going to be terrific.
- Thread starter sblantipodi
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Why on earth do you need that much high speed storage? I have never seen one of these types of use cases that aren't somebody trying to do server/HEDT work on the cheap, or that don't understand the concept of tiered storage. HEDT/server exists for you, and in 3 tiers currently in Threadripper, Threadripper Pro and Epyc. I get it, you want a Ferrari for Honda money, don't we all....just not at all reasonable to expect it.
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Gawd
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I don't think it's unreasonable to want as much as you can get for the price. Data science and engineering will take as much as there is no matter how much you throw at it. But I can build bigger models and train faster or do bigger table joins or fea, etc...
There's never enough compute and there never will be. So we buy the best we can at the prices we can afford.
Right - I mean those are workstation tasks, and they make a platform for that, so I don't really understand the "DT doesn't have it" critique. I'd understand if there weren't 3 tiers above it that did, but there are.
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Gawd
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I guess I don't understand you.
I would love to raid 0 5 gen 5 nvme drives to so I can do massive sql joins and still have enough pcie lanes to run multiple gpus for compute. I don't understand the tiering thing. My company pays for a shit ton of aws compute to do this, but for my hobby projects I am not forking over 10k for that box.
I really doubt you do not, your following sentence is a good clue
If they make possible for hobbyist to not pay $10k for solution that mean they would make it possible for enterprise, who are ready and spending big money.Some of the tiering option can be quite artificial in a world without open competition like the x86 world, while some are really costly.
Yeah, and as I said, I'd love to get a Ferrari for Honda money...Or to put it more succinctly and accurately, I'd love a Bugatti engine in my VW, they're both made by the same company so why not? That's just not remotely realistic.
Yeah, I wish threadripper wasn't always year behind, and I kept hearing of issues with the 7k threadripper pro series bios.
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Gawd
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Guess well see what the future holds. IMHO there's a HEDT market that's below threadripper class parts. I have paid 6k on a desktop in the past and if the right offering showed up i would again.
For some, but for some of it, how much it is due to a closed duopoly....
How much would it add to the cost if every board had the possibility to do USB bios flashback, remote network control, power-reboot button on the board.
For $1500 usd on ARM you can get a 64 cores cpu motherboard combo with:
https://www.newegg.com/asrock-rack-...max-ampere-altra-processors/p/N82E16813140134
2x10 gbits ethernet + 1 gbits
8 dimm slots ECC (RDIMM, LRDIMM)
4x16 pci 4.0 (there is 128 pci 4.0 lane in totals)
2 m.2
4 slimsas
2 OCulink
The margin and the product tier separation could be in some part, more than just raw material price difference when it come to cpu-motherboard combo and AMD-Intel as quite the dominance to enforce it.
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It's pretty well stratified - 24 lanes for AM5, 48 lanes for TR, 128 for TR Pro. What's the missing segment? Less ram/cores but 48 lanes? That'd be such an incredibly narrow niche it'd have to cost more than TR to recoup the cost, in which case everyone would just go TR....
Xeon did offer 4 cores - 4 channels - 48 lanes cpu in the past, now they have 6 core - 4 channels - 64 lanes, I wonder if they are popular.
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Gawd
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I really doubt you do not, your following sentence is a good clue
Some of the tiering option can be quite artificial in a world without open
AM5 has 28 lanes max. At least give me that and charge me 300 bucks more. Add in that those can all be pcie 5.0 and that is a lot of bandwidth. 4GB/sec/lane for pcie 5.0...I would take that. Toss in the X870E and you pick up even more lanes. So you can for sure make the case for that being qualified as HEDT.
Leave the TR parts for crazy high core counts needed for enterprise jobs like lots of VMs and servers, etc...etc...Additionally you can add in things like nested virtualization hardware on those parts that I don't need on a HEDT part.
I looked up what I spent on my HEDT (CPU/MBOARD/RAM/PSU) back in 2016 and allowing for inflation is pretty much the same for a 9900X/870E setup today.
But I did end up with 40 lanes...
KazeoHin
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If TR wasn't 1.5 generations behind and had no X3D variants, most enthusiasts probably WOULD go TR.
Derfnofred
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If I were to summarize, I'd think the bigger issue is the value proposition around standard TR vs AM5 rather than the way the lineup is set out. Like, if there was overlap on cost between AM5 and TR builds, this argument would be moot
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Gawd
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Agreed
Like, I don't understand this
https://www.newegg.com/amd-epyc-4564p-socket-am5/p/N82E16819113829
Exactly. I just want what I can easily get plus a couple more M.2 slots. I don't want to spend $1400 on a Threadripper that runs games slower than a good desktop chip just to be able to plug in a couple more M.2s. I'm willing to spend more on a board, but not that much more and I don't want the result to be a slower system. I just don't need a Threadripper or Xeon. I do want more than 8 cores for programming stuff, but a 9950X or i9 would do just fine. If I can't get the M.2 slots I want I'll just buy larger M.2s and make do.
I've wondered why they don't offer any x3D for threadripper. You can get EPYCs with the 3DVcache.
Tsumi
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I remember the same griping when overclockable dual-processor CPUs went away. The EVGA SR-2 was the last of its kind and nothing has replaced it since. Based of that precedent, prosumer boards/CPUs might never come back as the market delineates itself more. I think we would need a competitive 3rd party in the market for Intel and AMD to change their strategies.
KazeoHin
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Because TR is now a "Workstation" brand. It's not a High-End-Desktop, as Desktop implies Fun and Hobby. Workstation wears a suit and does boring work.
That's why I think if we had current-gen X3D 64-core Threadrippers with 12-ch memory, all the lanes, unlocked etc. Enthusiasts would probably buy them. People buy Porches, Lamborghinis, Ferraris for the adult equivalent of shits'n'giggles, they can drop 20-30K on an unlocked Threadripper platform.
I agree an x3d variant should be part of the offering, that's really all TR is missing as it has all of the connectivity, audio, OC support etc. 8-ch memory probably perfectly fine tbh unless going to over 64 cores, the extra channels have very limited benefit if they're not matched to a chiplet.
Normally the Epyc vs TR pro line (the 8 channel memory 128 pci lane) vs TR line (4 channels-48 pci lane) should make possible something that would be high end desktop range.
7960x cost $1380, 24 core-48 threads(58$ per core vs the $40-48 something of new Ryzen), 48 lanes, fancy Asus PRO TRX50 cost $900, less fancy gigabyte-asrock are at $550-$600
Not talking about raw cost-value, etc... but in term of how much value-demand-able to pay people have to plug 3-4 powerful GPU on a platform (or FPGA or what they do that a 4090 and an optane drive is not enough).
It give at the Gigabyte-asrock level (fancy Asus has 5 x16 slot, 3 you can usein x16, 1 in x8 and 1 x4):
Was the Intel HEDT much cheaper than the combo above.
Is the 4 channel xeon line out of price ?
They are pricey and ARM competition could help (or a return to form from the MacPro in term of gpu support with arm silicon)
7960x cost $1380, 24 core-48 threads(58$ per core vs the $40-48 something of new Ryzen), 48 lanes, fancy Asus PRO TRX50 cost $900, less fancy gigabyte-asrock are at $550-$600
Not talking about raw cost-value, etc... but in term of how much value-demand-able to pay people have to plug 3-4 powerful GPU on a platform (or FPGA or what they do that a 4090 and an optane drive is not enough).
It give at the Gigabyte-asrock level (fancy Asus has 5 x16 slot, 3 you can usein x16, 1 in x8 and 1 x4):
- 4 x Quad-Channel DDR5-7800 (OC)
- 8 x SATA III, 4 x M.2
- 2 x PCIe 5.0 x16 Slots
- 1 x PCIe 4.0 x16 Slot
- Wi-Fi 7 | Bluetooth 5.3 | 2.5 & 10 GbE
Was the Intel HEDT much cheaper than the combo above.
Is the 4 channel xeon line out of price ?
They are pricey and ARM competition could help (or a return to form from the MacPro in term of gpu support with arm silicon)
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