7970 coming down to $449 ?

{NG}Fidel said:
Yeah this GTX680 is GTX660 stuff is really strange to me.
No solid source for why anyone believes it. And we have Nvidia saying other wise by calling the card a GTX680.
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If you haven't noticed, massive exaggeration of the performance of potential future tech goes hand in hand with any discussion about said future tech.

This effect is amplified for brands with a cult following - intel, apple, nvidia, etc - as a commitment to performance (in the eyes of their respective fans) is presumably how they built the cult following to begin with.
 
The cards are +/- the same price... I guess 7970 cards could be sold wiithout the converters & cables, easily $50+ less there.

Annoying for those who don't have them though, but they could just label the more expensive boxes "Eyefinity Starter Edition" or something... and give the choice.
 
{NG}Fidel said:
Yeah this GTX680 is GTX660 stuff is really strange to me.
No solid source for why anyone believes it. And we have Nvidia saying other wise by calling the card a GTX680.
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It's simple really. This is not the GK110. It's been mentioned in virtually every review. The lackluster performance of the 7970 allowed NVIDIA to market their midrange chip (GK104) as a high end part because it is now the fastest GPU available.
 
You make it sound as if the 7970 was clocked higher nvidia would have dropped the 110 part.
 
Even if the 7970 was clocked higher it still doesn't exceed the 680 by that much. Reviews show the overclocked 680 beating the 7970 except at 3x monitor where they are fairly even
 
I don't understand how the retail price of the 7970 hasn't dropped yet to meet the new street price.
 
Riddlemethisj said:
I don't understand how the retail price of the 7970 hasn't dropped yet to meet the new street price.
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Supplies of the 680 are still difficult to come by. AMD certainly isn't going to drop retail price when nVidia has limited supplies. Once team green fixes that, I would expect AMD to drop the price to be competitive. Why drop price on something that retailers have in stock, when your opponent is OOS?
 
TheWeazmeister said:
Supplies of the 680 are still difficult to come by. AMD certainly isn't going to drop retail price when nVidia has limited supplies. Once team green fixes that, I would expect AMD to drop the price to be competitive. Why drop price on something that retailers have in stock, when your opponent is OOS?
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So that people buy your product instead of waiting for 680's to come back in stock ;)

This is the PERFECT time to drop the price. It's a lot easier to be patient and wait for 680's when 7970's are overpriced. A lot harder when they're not.
 
RamonGTP said:
So that people buy your product instead of waiting for 680's to come back in stock ;)

This is the PERFECT time to drop the price. It's a lot easier to be patient and wait for 680's when 7970's are overpriced. A lot harder when they're not.
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Yeah...680s won't be out of stock for long I'm guessing, and they've been sporadically in and out of stock since release, so it's not like there's zero stock anywhere.
 
AMD is really sitting on their 8970, but realized they could release the 7970 for $550 right now, knowing that Nvidia's coupe de grace was still months from being functional. Just when Nvidia releases the 780 (aka 680).. BAAAAM, AMD knocks em out of the park with a GPU that can't be matched.....ever. It'll probably be the best GPU release in the history of the world and won't be touched for about 500 years. Atleast that's what I've been telling my friends, and they're pretty shocked.

I mean, I even have this amazing GPU that's in the design phase that will destroy both the 7970 and the 680.....I just can't release it now. Instead, I'm selling lemonade to strangers to make a little money on the side.
 
if they drop the 7970 to the 400-450 mark all the AMD fanboys that bought the 7970 at 550-600 will turn into NVIDIA fanboys
 
There is no way the HD 7970 is dropping down to $450. The performance of the cards are too close for that to happen.

AMD's driver crew needs to turn it to 11 & copy auto clocking combined with their cards headroom and you have a real monster there.
 
I really think AMD screwed up releasing the 7970 at 925mhz, the 7870 and 7770 were both "Ghz edition", they should have held out for 1Ghz on the 7970 as well. Anyways, I really think $450 is where they need to price it to really move cards. Nvidia really does have a little better support and what not, and can demand a slight premium, AMD cannot.
 
Omegas said:
I smell a 1100 clocked version to be called a 7980 and a drop in the 7970 price.
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i agree on the 7980, but i tend to think it will be a "gigahertz" edition timed to coincide with 4GB GTX680's at $549, with 1100MHz overclocked editions to go from ~$600.
 
What exactly do u guys mean when u say ati drivers suck?been runny ati video cards for 3 generations,never had a single problem,and i try a lot of games. The only game i had issues with was Rage,but i dont blame ati for that. I know the new cards are runing on some 3 months old drivers,but from reviews performance seem to match the new nvidia 680 so why does it matter? I'm interested in people who run single graphics cards/ monitors, since crosffire and eyefinity are just a small portion of the pc industry.
 
RamonGTP said:
So that people buy your product instead of waiting for 680's to come back in stock ;)

This is the PERFECT time to drop the price. It's a lot easier to be patient and wait for 680's when 7970's are overpriced. A lot harder when they're not.
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I addition to competing with Nvidia doesn't Amd need to also consider they are competing with the use graphics card market and lowering their prices would help combat that.
 
LawGiver said:
7970 $450, 7950 $350. 7870 $300 7850 $210.
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I Fixed this because there are several cards a better deal than a $250 7850. Like 560ti, 560ti 448 and GTX570. Inline with price/performance with these cards puts 7850 at $210. You also have factor that people who purchased the above GTX and last generation 6950 cards in thier personal $250 price range will see no reason to upgrade to a slower/mediocre product in that same price range today further depressing 7850's demand.

$250 is where most people like to spend and nothing new and good is there just a mediocre 7850. Just because AMD wants it there doesnt make it sustainable there.

Really AMD should lower 7870 to $250 if they want excited customers to upgrade and move 7850 to $199.

I'd give up my 448 for a $250 7870 not a $250 7850.

Revised price list 7970 $450, 7950 $350. 7870 $250 7850 $199.
 
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Florin22xxl said:
What exactly do u guys mean when u say ati drivers suck?been runny ati video cards for 3 generations,never had a single problem,and i try a lot of games. The only game i had issues with was Rage,but i dont blame ati for that. I know the new cards are runing on some 3 months old drivers,but from reviews performance seem to match the new nvidia 680 so why does it matter? I'm interested in people who run single graphics cards/ monitors, since crosffire and eyefinity are just a small portion of the pc industry.
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I've never had a problem. I think it's one of those things that gets repeated a lot without experience. I remember people used to say AMD chips and chipsets suck then they came out with athlons and 64s and people changed their tune when they owned it. It's like we have to bag on what we don't own and praise what we do.
 
gc86 said:
if they drop the 7970 to the 400-450 mark all the AMD fanboys that bought the 7970 at 550-600 will turn into NVIDIA fanboys
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No, it will be just like back in 2008, when the GTX-280 launched at $649, not even like 5 weeks or so later had massive price drops down to $449 in less than two months after it came out, due to the new AMD 4800 series launch.
 
PRIME1 said:
It's simple really. This is not the GK110. It's been mentioned in virtually every review. The lackluster performance of the 7970 allowed NVIDIA to market their midrange chip (GK104) as a high end part because it is now the fastest GPU available.
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I understand it was a money grab for nvidia but if this was really the midrange part I would have released it as so and let the benchmarkers do the advertising for me by saying how it is beating the competitions flagship while being $150 less. This is all assuming it was a midrange part all along.
 
Bash said:
You make it sound as if the 7970 was clocked higher nvidia would have dropped the 110 part.
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If you look at the temperature and power usage of the 680 it still has a lot of headroom. NVIDIA could have clocked it much higher. I'm sure we will begin seeing factory overclocked models with upgraded Fans/PCBs/Thermal Paste/etc that will reflect this.
 
Yakk said:
The cards are +/- the same price... I guess 7970 cards could be sold wiithout the converters & cables, easily $50+ less there.

Annoying for those who don't have them though, but they could just label the more expensive boxes "Eyefinity Starter Edition" or something... and give the choice.
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This is a great point. While I really doubt it's all worth $50 (you could piece it all together on Amazon with free shipping for probably $35-40), especially considering the whole deal probably cost them about $15 with wholesale agreements, it's still a great place for them to trim fat.

I'm not tremendously surprised that AMD hasn't acted yet - they're probably waiting for market stability. If they reacted now, and for some reason the prices of 680s drop even more in the next month or two (which is certainly not impossible), then they're going to look pretty desparate as they continue to slash prices to "catch the falling knife", so to speak.

Also, from what I've seen, the 7970 is still a very solid play for people that will be overclocking and using CFX for multi-monitor setups. Granted, this is probably a very small minority, but from all the tests I've seen, the 7970 CFX actually comes out ahead of the 680 SLI setup at high resolutions due to (in general) better scaling and memory bandwidth. Sometimes by a decent amount, too.

Just playing devils advocate :p
 
Aseras said:
AMD's real problem IS their driver crew. If their drivers were decent they could beat the $%#$% out of Nvidia all day long.
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Aaaaannnnnndd I could say the same about Nvidia. Not a day goes by on my work computer where my NV driver doesn't crash and lock up my system. No, wiping the driver and re-installing it doesn't help, and due to company policies I can't do much more than that. This has been happening since the first week I got the computer and it was brand new. I'm not the only one with this issue either.

I've had issues with both camps' drivers. The difference is if I have an issue with an AMD driver, it only requires a tiny workaround, or is a bit of an annoyance, but I can still do what I want to. If I have an issue with an NV driver, it's a pain in the ass and will stop me from doing what I want to do.
 
FaRKle0079 said:
Aaaaannnnnndd I could say the same about Nvidia. Not a day goes by on my work computer where my NV driver doesn't crash and lock up my system. No, wiping the driver and re-installing it doesn't help, and due to company policies I can't do much more than that. This has been happening since the first week I got the computer and it was brand new. I'm not the only one with this issue either.

I've had issues with both camps' drivers. The difference is if I have an issue with an AMD driver, it only requires a tiny workaround, or is a bit of an annoyance, but I can still do what I want to. If I have an issue with an NV driver, it's a pain in the ass and will stop me from doing what I want to do.
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Have you tried older drivers? Sounds like incompatibility issues.
 
AMD's plan to have the 7970 compete with the GTX580 instead of what they presumed would be the GTX680 has ruined this GPU Gen. Everything is just overpriced and underwhelming now.

Nvidia will just do the bare minimum to beat AMD and save whatever else they have for later. It's barely a competition anymore.

It will take a big move from AMD to make this generation worthwhile IMO.

I've been waiting for a GTX570 successor for too long. The 570 itself is a warmed over 480, so it's basically a two year old card. The GPU market has become stagnant. Blame consoles or whatever you want.
 
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I have owned both Nvidia and ATI, I wouldn't say ATI's drivers are "bad". I would say that most people including me generally consider Nvidia's "better".
 
Even though 7970 is more expensive up front its slot cheaper in the long run and maybe more future proof with its memory size.

My 7970 has made me $140 since I got....few more months it earns me profits. While I'm off to work, having dinner, or sleeping its working away to earn its keep.
 
Nobi125 said:
AMD's plan to have the 7970 compete with the GTX580 instead of what they presumed would be the GTX680 has ruined this GPU Gen. Everything is just overpriced and underwhelming now.

Nvidia will just do the bare minimum to beat AMD and save whatever else they have for later. It's barely a competition anymore.

It will take a big move from AMD to make this generation worthwhile IMO.

I've been waiting for a GTX570 successor for too long. The 570 itself is a warmed over 480, so it's basically a two year old card. The GPU market has become stagnant. Blame consoles or whatever you want.
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I agree with it being stagnant right now. My Radeon 5870 from over 2 years ago is still going very strong on my single monitor setup.

It might have been interesting if Nvidia really wanted to start a competition and priced the 680 against the 7950, but you can't blame them for just doing the bare minimum to beat the 7970 and come out ahead.

Come to think of it I feel much the same way about the processor situation. If I knew the i5 overclocked to 4.5Ghz would still be so relevant and capable today I would have paid the extra over my AMD 955 BE when I built 2.5 years ago. Usually I'm used to technology changing so fast that I would have wanted to avoid paying the premium for the i5 because I would have been forced to upgrade again in 2 years normally.

However even my 955 BE is able to max out any of the games I play at 1920x1200 with my 5870. With the next two PC games on my to buy list being Guild Wars 2 and Diablo 3 I don't see that changing anytime soon.

/end off topic rant
 
buttons said:
Even though 7970 is more expensive up front its slot cheaper in the long run and maybe more future proof with its memory size.

My 7970 has made me $140 since I got....few more months it earns me profits. While I'm off to work, having dinner, or sleeping its working away to earn its keep.
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Just making sure you're talking about Bitcoin mining here and not something else? Because I planned on getting one soon, even though I'm not much of a gamer. (Just because this guy nearby is giving me a great deal...)
 
FaRKle0079 said:
Aaaaannnnnndd I could say the same about Nvidia. Not a day goes by on my work computer where my NV driver doesn't crash and lock up my system. No, wiping the driver and re-installing it doesn't help, and due to company policies I can't do much more than that. This has been happening since the first week I got the computer and it was brand new. I'm not the only one with this issue either.
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Well, it's like this, I have three Nvidia cards installed on three different PCs and two AMD cards on other PCs and none of them crash due to a video card driver issue. Your issue is hardware related and not a driver issue. Probably shit PSUs.
 
kontact said:
Well, it's like this, I have three Nvidia cards installed on three different PCs and two AMD cards on other PCs and none of them crash due to a video card driver issue. Your issue is hardware related and not a driver issue. Probably shit PSUs.
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Cause we all know business class laptops have shitty components like consumer grade ones :rolleyes:. Considering these are laptops and the issue occurs when docked, when hooked up to the PSU, and when on battery, that's not the case.

Yeah, yeah keep on making excuses for NV's drivers because you just can't admit that they don't make perfect drivers. A quick forum search here will bring up plenty of people that have NV's drivers crashing on them. Your sample size of five is a lot less than my company's sample size of thousands.
 
FaRKle0079 said:
Cause we all know business class laptops have shitty components like consumer grade ones :rolleyes:

Yeah, yeah keep on making excuses for NV's drivers because you just can't admit that they don't make perfect drivers. A quick forum search here will bring up plenty of people that have NV's drivers crashing on them. Your sample size of five is a lot less than my company's sample size of thousands.
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I think the point is that if you look around at [H] especially, there are vastly more threads pertaining to AMD driver issues than nVidia. I don't think anyone is saying either driver set is perfect, and I'm sure there is a good deal of PEBKAC out there, but hell, [H] even did a specific article recently calling out AMD on their driver problems. It's not just that there are issues with the drivers but that it takes them forever to fix the issues, if at all.
 
MavericK96 said:
I think the point is that if you look around at [H] especially, there are vastly more threads pertaining to AMD driver issues than nVidia. I don't think anyone is saying either driver set is perfect, and I'm sure there is a good deal of PEBKAC out there, but hell, [H] even did a specific article recently calling out AMD on their driver problems. It's not just that there are issues with the drivers but that it takes them forever to fix the issues, if at all.
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That's definitely part of it, the other part of it is that AMD didn't even have proper drivers for their flagship card when it was launched. Hence all the positive comments by [H] staff on "this is how a gfx card should be launched." I had a 6970 for a while, switched back to team green, as I just didn't like the AMD drivers.
 
jober1 said:
I really think AMD screwed up releasing the 7970 at 925mhz, the 7870 and 7770 were both "Ghz edition", they should have held out for 1Ghz on the 7970 as well. Anyways, I really think $450 is where they need to price it to really move cards. Nvidia really does have a little better support and what not, and can demand a slight premium, AMD cannot.
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Totally right, specially when the HD 7970 has a good overclocking margin, considering that when overclocked, the GTX 680 can consume more power than the HD 7970 means that the latter wouldn't been severely TDP limited to reach at least 1,050MHz core.
 
morgwon said:
I understand it was a money grab for nvidia but if this was really the midrange part I would have released it as so and let the benchmarkers do the advertising for me by saying how it is beating the competitions flagship while being $150 less. This is all assuming it was a midrange part all along.
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Yep, specially when most of the money comes from cards sold in less than $300 dollars, plus sounds better stating "The GTX 660 Ti, a midrange part that edges the more expensive and fastest AMD single GPU, the HD 7970", rather than stating, nVidia's GTX 680, the little chip that could, and barely outperformed the unimpressive HD 7970 according to nVidia.
 
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