750w POWER SUPPLY !? wow

Z

zombix

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 27, 2005
Messages
1,164
Ok i have a 600w or 650w power supply in my system and my electric bill is VERY high,

When the hell are they going to realese something that doesnt take up so much power but still run killer graphics?

If i sound stupid then im sorry i just cant believe we are getting around the curve to 1000w!
 
its not the power supply, its what your computer draw... u can have a 1kw psu, but if your system only draws 200w, then all u paying for electricity IS that 200w (plus wasted energy during AC DC conversion).

to save energy get high effiency psus, at least 80 percent

a good one is seasonic S12 line
 
Asian Dub Foundation said:
its not the power supply, its what your computer draw... u can have a 1kw psu, but if your system only draws 200w, then all u paying for electricity IS that 200w (plus wasted energy during AC DC conversion).

to save energy get high effiency psus, at least 80 percent

a good one is seasonic S12 line
Click to expand...
^ - QFT
 
Asian Dub Foundation said:
wrong. most 80PLUS certified Psu are around the 300 - 430 range
Click to expand...

Eh? My FSP 700W says its 85% and it was only $180. (I didn't buy it for the efficiency, I could give a damn. My electricity is paid for by the U.S. Army.)
 
zombix said:
Ok i have a 600w or 650w power supply in my system and my electric bill is VERY high,

When the hell are they going to realese something that doesnt take up so much power but still run killer graphics?

If i sound stupid then im sorry i just cant believe we are getting around the curve to 1000w!
Click to expand...

I really doubt your electric bill is high due to your "computer". I rent a house with two roommates, all of us have our pcs running 24x7, there's usually atleast 1 xbox running, and the stove is electric and continuously running. :cool: We usually pay about $60/mo.
 
Dew said:
Eh? My FSP 700W says its 85% and it was only $180. (I didn't buy it for the efficiency, I could give a damn. My electricity is paid for by the U.S. Army.)
Click to expand...

note i said 80PLUS certified (its an actually PSU testing program that promotes high efficiency). your FSP might "peak" at 85 percent (prolly at low loads). afaik an 80PLUS certified psu need to be above 80 percent efficiency at 20,50,and 100 percent load. a 80PLUS certified psu will have a sticker on it saying so. for example: http://www.seasonic.com/product/pc_80plus.jsp

oh and i meant watts, not price
 
dont bother with the efficiency nonsense. (atleast as far as energy bill) What more you spend in a higher end psu >$100 you will not save on your electric bill.
 
Oh4Sh0 said:
dont bother with the efficiency nonsense. (atleast as far as energy bill) What more you spend in a higher end psu >$100 you will not save on your electric bill.
Click to expand...
If higher energy costs don't convince you of the error of your ways, how about some numbers for these upcoming summer months. If your power supply is being used for a 300W load on the DC side, and it's 70% efficient, its draw on the AC side is 300/.7=428 watts. So 300 of that gets passed on to the DC side, and 128 of that... sits there and heats your house. So now you have the power you need for your computer, plus a 128 watt space heater. If you had an 80% efficient PSU, in the same scenario, it'd only be 300/.8=375 watts out of the wall. So you would have about 50 less watts of space heater going. That can make a significant difference in your A/C bill, I'd imagine. And extend that over, say, a year, and suddenly $100 doesn't look unreasonable. You don't pay for just the extra 50W, but also the power needed to cool that much heating, which is probably (I'm guessing, anyone know?) more than 50W.

And I dunno about you, but rates in my state just jumped by 70%. That means a little bit suddenly goes a long way.

 
Asian Dub Foundation said:
note i said 80PLUS certified (its an actually PSU testing program that promotes high efficiency). your FSP might "peak" at 85 percent (prolly at low loads). afaik an 80PLUS certified psu need to be above 80 percent efficiency at 20,50,and 100 percent load. a 80PLUS certified psu will have a sticker on it saying so. for example: http://www.seasonic.com/product/pc_80plus.jsp

oh and i meant watts, not price
Click to expand...


His PSU (which I also happen to own) is in fact rated to operate at 85% efficiency (or higher) under full load. The 80PLUS certification on the 600w and 700w FSP epsilon units is simply pending since they are pretty recent to market. (This is what I was told by FSP_Grace, anyway)

I like Seasonic too, just setting things straight.
 
unhappy_mage said:
And I dunno about you, but rates in my state just jumped by 70%. That means a little bit suddenly goes a long way.
Click to expand...


Doesn't this shit just make your blood boil? :mad:

Electricity bill is bad enough here in Texas during the summer... and now they are implimenting some pretty hefty percentage increases here too. Fucking nuts.
 
Blue Falcon said:
His PSU (which I also happen to own) is in fact rated to operate at 85% efficiency (or higher) under full load. The 80PLUS certification on the 600w and 700w FSP epsilon units is simply pending since they are pretty recent to market. (This is what I was told by FSP_Grace, anyway)

I like Seasonic too, just setting things straight.
Click to expand...

icic... if and when it does get certified, i might pick one up
 
Asian Dub Foundation said:
icic... if and when it does get certified, i might pick one up
Click to expand...

You oughta, only bad thing is it's not modular and has a metric shitton of cables. It makes cable organization in your case a pain. :)
 
Blue Falcon said:
You oughta, only bad thing is it's not modular and has a metric shitton of cables. It makes cable organization in your case a pain. :)
Click to expand...

so is my seasonic... crazy amount of cables :D
 
unhappy_mage said:
If higher energy costs don't convince you of the error of your ways, how about some numbers for these upcoming summer months. If your power supply is being used for a 300W load on the DC side, and it's 70% efficient, its draw on the AC side is 300/.7=428 watts. So 300 of that gets passed on to the DC side, and 128 of that... sits there and heats your house. So now you have the power you need for your computer, plus a 128 watt space heater. If you had an 80% efficient PSU, in the same scenario, it'd only be 300/.8=375 watts out of the wall. So you would have about 50 less watts of space heater going. That can make a significant difference in your A/C bill, I'd imagine. And extend that over, say, a year, and suddenly $100 doesn't look unreasonable. You don't pay for just the extra 50W, but also the power needed to cool that much heating, which is probably (I'm guessing, anyone know?) more than 50W.

And I dunno about you, but rates in my state just jumped by 70%. That means a little bit suddenly goes a long way.

Click to expand...

As I stated before, me and my roommates run 3 computers and a xbox, and an electric stove nonstop 24/7. Our electric bill is at a max of $60 a month. I don't know where you live that's astronomically expensive, but upgrading from my smartpower 2.0 ($60) to a $100-$140 psu and you wouldn't see your $40-$80 in say, 3 years? Arguing the point about a space heater is a moot point, atleast from where I live, as the heat is on more during the year than the A/C.

And at "300-450" for an 80plus certified psu.. you sir, are insane. If you bought one of those you would never see your dollar back, not even closely. $60 vs $300. = $240 difference. You will see that in your energy savings, HA HA. The max reasonable amount you can expect to save by getting a slightly more efficient psu is maybe $3 a month, but I doubt you would even see that.
 
Oh4Sh0 said:
As I stated before, me and my roommates run 3 computers and a xbox, and an electric stove nonstop 24/7. Our electric bill is at a max of $60 a month. I don't know where you live that's astronomically expensive, but upgrading from my smartpower 2.0 ($60) to a $100-$140 psu and you wouldn't see your $40-$80 in say, 3 years? Arguing the point about a space heater is a moot point, atleast from where I live, as the heat is on more during the year than the A/C.
Click to expand...
According to the BG&E website (doc), costs of electricity are 5.759+0.356+2.370 cents/KWh, for a total of 8.485. So if you had a one KWh device running year-round, that's 8.485*24*365=$743 electric costs. For that 50w savings I mentioned in my last post, it's $37. And considering how long my power supply has lasted, five years doesn't sound unreasonable to me.

Oh, and with an 85% efficient supply, the number is $55. Not a bad investment at all.
Oh4Sh0 said:
And at "300-450" for an 80plus certified psu.. you sir, are insane. If you bought one of those you would never see your dollar back, not even closely. $60 vs $300. = $240 difference. You will see that in your energy savings, HA HA. The max reasonable amount you can expect to save by getting a slightly more efficient psu is maybe $3 a month, but I doubt you would even see that.
Click to expand...
"300-430" meant watts, not dollars. Even a 430 only costs $109, and a 330 is $65. And if you need more capacity, the 600 is a competitive $180. Hooray for reading comprehension.

 
Try This.

One Machine running 24x7 other Other's intermittiantly.

The machine running a £70 550Watt PSU and has something like 10 Harddisks.

The PSU is nearing 100% Load I'm guessing. Last bill was

£230 for a quarter (1/4 of a year).

Now our heating is gas and we have energy efficent light bulbs

Our TV Is sony and only spends max of 2-4 Hours a day on.

Our cooking is gas except for the oven and fridge which are electric.

What is useing all the power.... The only thing is the PC..... which pumps out enough heat to warm a small undouble glazed room permantly even during the winter.
 
Fridge (they use more power than it seems), big appliances, and a non-efficient power supply. That is what really makes the difference, not just a high wattage.
 
TV can actually use a LOT of juice depending on how big it is, no matter the brand.

Fridge uses quite a bit of juice.

OVEN will use a LOT of juice. Anything with a heating element just uses a metric shitton of electricity, it's scary how much. Electric ranges (stovetops) and ovens are one of the worst...
 
unhappy_mage said:
According to the BG&E website (doc), costs of electricity are 5.759+0.356+2.370 cents/KWh, for a total of 8.485. So if you had a one KWh device running year-round, that's 8.485*24*365=$743 electric costs. For that 50w savings I mentioned in my last post, it's $37. And considering how long my power supply has lasted, five years doesn't sound unreasonable to me.

Oh, and with an 85% efficient supply, the number is $55. Not a bad investment at all.

"300-430" meant watts, not dollars. Even a 430 only costs $109, and a 330 is $65. And if you need more capacity, the 600 is a competitive $180. Hooray for reading comprehension.

Click to expand...

So with the power supply under FULL LOAD 24/7 for AN ENTIRE YEAR, you might actually save a buck or two? Really? :rolleyes: Speaking realisticly, you will not. If you only upgrade your psu once every five years i'd also be amazed. I've changed psu's.. let's see here, 5 times for one rig over the last 3 years? New technologies are always around the corner. Dual 12V+ rails didn't exist but what, within the past year? 24-pin connectors, those too? Maybe a year and a half? SATA was ~2.5 yrs ago or so?
In my 2003 build, I had a Turbolink 430 (pos). I then purchased an Antec True430. Was nice, but I wanted something that ran better rails and was already sleeved. So I purchased a Tagan480 sleeved by performance pc's. Then the psu aged a bit, and I needed something with dual rails, and picked up a noisetaker 475. Recently, I desired a modular psu and one with a 24-pin connector so I've picked up an Antec Smartpower 2.0. I've had it since.. february maybe?

All your speculations to make someone feel good about dropping a ton of money on a psu is a bit far-fetched.. the reality is if you buy a quality psu now for $60, you'll be happy, have the latest technology, a stable runner, decent efficiency, and be set until you're ready to upgrade.. probably not because the psu is too weak, but because of new technology. Or you could spend $100+, and do the same thing, and feel better because your psu is <10% more efficient.
 
Oh4Sh0 said:
All your speculations to make someone feel good about dropping a ton of money on a psu is a bit far-fetched.. the reality is if you buy a quality psu now for $60, you'll be happy, have the latest technology, a stable runner, decent efficiency, and be set until you're ready to upgrade.. probably not because the psu is too weak, but because of new technology. Or you could spend $100+, and do the same thing, and feel better because your psu is <10% more efficient.
Click to expand...
Tell me again what the difference between $60 + $37 and $100 is? Maybe I'm completely wrong and people usually change out power supplies more than once a year, but for me, you buy a good one in the first place and don't need to upgrade. "Buy it nice or buy it twice" is my motto.
Oh4Sh0 said:
New technologies are always around the corner. Dual 12V+ rails didn't exist but what, within the past year? 24-pin connectors, those too? Maybe a year and a half? SATA was ~2.5 yrs ago or so?
Click to expand...
And none of those technologies are magically going to appear on your motherboard. Buy a power supply that matches your current equipment, and you're set. And if you're planning on upgrading your system more often than power supply standards change, you aren't the target of the high-efficiency supplies. Have fun in your SUV, and don't forget to vote for Bush.

Lastly, this rate is *before* that rate hike I mentioned. They haven't taken effect yet. I hadn't looked it up until I went to calculate just what electricity cost, and thought they were in effect already. That 50W savings is going to be $62 (electricity at 14.24 cents/KWh).

 
hmm my last bill from AEP was $56. Minus sales tax and a service charge it was $45. Divide that by 3 computers, an xbox, an xbox360, electric stove, electric drier, washer, tv/surround sound, monitors + computer surround sound... Realisticly the computer costs around $8 a month would be my estimate[$10 max].. if that. So if you take $1 off that from going from an 80% efficiency to a 70% efficiency PSU (granted that the psu is rated at ATLEAST 70% constant efficiency) I would save a maximum of $12 a year.

Also, buddy, I did what you would describe a "typical gamer" doing. I bought the high-end parts when they came out. Three years ago it was socket 754 with a clawhammer 3200+. Then I switched to 939, like most people have, shortly after it came out. Recently, I decided to upgrade to an SLI board, with more than 2 SATA ports that my original s939 would handle. For Videocards I've gone ti4200->6600gt->x800gto2->x1800xl. Don't see that out of the ordinary either. I would assume that most people here do a complete overhaul of their system about every 1.5 yrs.

The guy in the main post here said his electric bill was very high. He didn't give very much information, but I told him most likely it wasn't due to his psu.. and you try to talkin him into going out and buying a nice new +80% efficiency psu like that's really going to drop his bill more than a couple bucks a month. That's the bottom line.
 
Well Thermaltake is coming out with a 1200 watt PS so get ready folks...

Personally I just bought 2 7600GS for SLI because they only use 32Watts each. To hell with the X1800...
 
markkleb said:
Well Thermaltake is coming out with a 1200 watt PS so get ready folks...

Personally I just bought 2 7600GS for SLI because they only use 32Watts each. To hell with the X1800...
Click to expand...

They also have that massive new case that can house 2 computers. So that's semi-logical. Rather than having 2 psus for that case, you could have 1. [Althought I would doubt if it would come with the proper cables for 2 entire layouts]
 
yea thats another thing. when a company advertises "500W" they dont just mean a 500W input do they? thad be lame, but i could picture a few companies doing that, i wont name names thermaltake, im not that kinda guy.
 
When speaking about thermaltake and psus, a lot of people don't have good things to say.. :p But idk.. I've never had a problem with one.
 
MrWizard6600 said:
yea thats another thing. when a company advertises "500W" they dont just mean a 500W input do they? thad be lame, but i could picture a few companies doing that, i wont name names thermaltake, im not that kinda guy.
Click to expand...

They mean 500w to the pc. Of course, how this 500w is measured is a different story. It could be just getting 500w for 1 second, in a -35 degree room, or 500w continuous power, in a 50 degree room.

Celcius.
 
markkleb said:
Well Thermaltake is coming out with a 1200 watt PS so get ready folks...

Personally I just bought 2 7600GS for SLI because they only use 32Watts each. To hell with the X1800...
Click to expand...

I missed that. Was that something shown at Computex?

I didn't think anyone was over 1100W and I certainly wouldn't have thought it would be Thermaltake. ;)

EDIT: Found it.

http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2775&p=12

Still, I'd believe it when I see it. ;)
 
unhappy_mage said:
[...]

And I dunno about you, but rates in my state just jumped by 70%. That means a little bit suddenly goes a long way.
Click to expand...

treehugger! Who cares about wasting electricity!
 
drizzt81 said:
treehugger! Who cares about wasting electricity!
Click to expand...
By "rates" I mean dollars, and I care about wasting those :p

Oh4Sh0: When I buy components, I buy slightly below the top of the line so I don't pay the crazy high premiums on them. If I bought today, it'd be no 7900GTX for me; the 7600 is almost as fast, much much cheaper, and does everything I need. I think this is a more "typical gamer" attitude - budget is a factor.

And maybe the rates are just lower in your state, huh? Our electric bill nears $200 before the rate increase. I imagine you need less A/C in Ohio than MD. But a kill-a-watt meter wouldn't be a bad investment anyways - find out where that $700 a year is going.

I keep talking about costs in terms of years, you keep talking months. That makes me look alarmist. But try it - how much do you make a year? What percentage of that are you paying for electricity? Now it looks a lot worse than "just $60 a month!". Same reason I don't have (or want!) a cell phone - do you know how much those things cost?

 
unhappy_mage said:
By "rates" I mean dollars, and I care about wasting those :p

Oh4Sh0: When I buy components, I buy slightly below the top of the line so I don't pay the crazy high premiums on them. If I bought today, it'd be no 7900GTX for me; the 7600 is almost as fast, much much cheaper, and does everything I need. I think this is a more "typical gamer" attitude - budget is a factor.

And maybe the rates are just lower in your state, huh? Our electric bill nears $200 before the rate increase. I imagine you need less A/C in Ohio than MD. But a kill-a-watt meter wouldn't be a bad investment anyways - find out where that $700 a year is going.

I keep talking about costs in terms of years, you keep talking months. That makes me look alarmist. But try it - how much do you make a year? What percentage of that are you paying for electricity? Now it looks a lot worse than "just $60 a month!". Same reason I don't have (or want!) a cell phone - do you know how much those things cost?

Click to expand...

My cell is free :D And because of the cell phone, I don't have a landline phone. So, if you figure you'd be spending $40/mo (maybe less, maybe more) on a landline phone, even if I had to pay for the cell phone, I still would. No real reason to get off topic... but a cell phone is much more convienient than a conventional phone.. I know I've been broken down or in an accident and having a cell phone has really paid off. The convieniences of having one would outweigh the slightly marginal cost over having a landline phone. Not to mention that most carriers provide you with a "decent" free phone every 2 years. I don't need a big plan either, as all of my family run on the same carrier, and probably half of my friends do also, verizon. Free verizon-verizon means I don't use any of my minutes talking to them. [some carriers even do free mobile to mobile!] The only time I'm even worried about my minutes is when I am on hold for a long time (like a customer support service). Although none of us live together, one of my brothers and my mom and stepfather are on a family plan that provides us four phones at $60. So even if I had to pay for my phone, it would be $15/mo. I have no roaming/free nationwide... so when I go to iowa or tenn to visit relatives, I'm never worried about getting charges invoked. Most everyone I know also lives in a different state.. I'm in Indiana going to college and working (now living) here. All my long distance calling is free.. and it's kind of ironic.. I'm still on a phone with a 419 area code even though I live in a different area code -260. No reason to change, no extra charges, for local or long distance. IMO, a cell phone, or cell phone(s) is definately the way to go as long as you don't go overboard and do text messaging, picture sending, internet browsing, etc.

I live in Fort Wayne, IN (no longer in Oh). I see the high for us as 83, the high for annapolis, MD, at 78. I imagine it is actually warmer here in the "plains states" (typically 90s on most summer days) or is close to the same temp as it is there.
As I stated before, I have 2 roommates, so I'm only paying <$20/mo for electicity. That means less than $240/yr, which I'm pretty content with :) . Our rate isn't listed on our power bill, and I don't feel like looking it up.. but for some reason I'd just be amazed that your rate is 3x ours.

And I speak in months.. because I figure most people have their power supply a max of 2 years, more typically, probably 1.5. For me, figuring that the "new" psu operates at 80% eff constant, and my antec operates at 70% constant (which is bs any way you look at it.. the ratings mean they are gauranteed not to go under that, which the efficiencies only drop under heavy loads.. so who knows, maybe my idle efficiency is also 80%? Maybe more?) With everything playing in your favor, the 80% efficiency psu would save me less than $25 in this 2 year time period. The cost difference would be much greater than that.
You on the other hand are saying they last you 5 years.. and you're a mild gamer. So I must ask you where your 1000mhz Althon system is that you should still be gaming on, or what 5 year old psu you're still using in your main rig?
 
MrWizard6600 said:
yea thats another thing. when a company advertises "500W" they dont just mean a 500W input do they? thad be lame, but i could picture a few companies doing that, i wont name names thermaltake, im not that kinda guy.
Click to expand...


!!!! :(
 
Oh4Sh0 said:
You on the other hand are saying they last you 5 years.. and you're a mild gamer. So I must ask you where your 1000mhz Althon system is that you should still be gaming on, or what 5 year old psu you're still using in your main rig?
Click to expand...

LOL, touché...
 
Oh4Sh0 said:
As I stated before, I have 2 roommates, so I'm only paying <$20/mo for electicity. That means less than $240/yr, which I'm pretty content with :)
Click to expand...
My parents don't count me as a roommate, for which I am glad ;)
Oh4Sh0 said:
but for some reason I'd just be amazed that your rate is 3x ours.
Click to expand...
I think we use more electricity than you (8 computers and AC for them isn't cheap, not to mention 6 people :eek: )
Oh4Sh0 said:
For me, figuring that the "new" psu operates at 80% eff constant, and my antec operates at 70% constant (which is bs any way you look at it.. the ratings mean they are gauranteed not to go under that, which the efficiencies only drop under heavy loads.. so who knows, maybe my idle efficiency is also 80%? Maybe more?) With everything playing in your favor, the 80% efficiency psu would save me less than $25 in this 2 year time period. The cost difference would be much greater than that.
Click to expand...
Efficiencies climb under load, until a midpoint, then drop off. JonnyGURU's ST60F review shows this perfectly.
Oh4Sh0 said:
You on the other hand are saying they last you 5 years.. and you're a mild gamer. So I must ask you where your 1000mhz Althon system is that you should still be gaming on, or what 5 year old psu you're still using in your main rig?
Click to expand...
I said it didn't sound unreasonable for the power supply to last that long, not that I had been using a particular supply for that long. I'm using a Fortron 400w ($67) in my p4 2.4 for around 2 years now, and presumably it'll keep on chugging. But if I'd bought a Seasonic 430 ($100) I would've saved $70 by now, with potential to save more.

Finally, let me mention that using less energy is environmentally responsible, whatever else your reasons are. On that note, here's a table comparing the Seasonic ($100) to the Antec TruePower ($70).
Code: 
DC Output (W) 35  65  90  150 200 250 300 430
Seasonic 430  NA  79% 82% 82% 83% 82% 79% 78%
Antec TP 430  58% 66% 70% 76% 76% 75% 74% 71%

PS: In 2001 I was using a Cyrix 166 with 512MB of ram and onboard video to play Half-Life. Intel released a 2 gHz chip that year.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top