Title says it mostly. If the K8L/ Barceonla/ whatever is indeed going to launch in the middle of 07, we have ~6 months to go. I would like to see some performance numbers to convince me to get a cheap Core 2 rather than drop a grand on a QX6700.
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6 months to go, when are we going to see some leaked Bacelona figures?
- Thread starter drizzt81
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(cf)Eclipse
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probably not for a while, if amd's tightness on info lately is any indication
My opinion:
Regardless of what AMD does, dropping 1k on ANY cpu is a decision that needs to be based on true need. Do you really need that particular CPU for your work or gaming? By what I have read, the C2D is almost assured the performance crown for at least the next 4-6 months, maybe longer. By Q3 of 07, AMD should have retail availability for their answer to the C2D. At that point, one could decide to simply drop a core quad into the existing platform.
It is my thought that whatever AMD does for the better part of 07 in 65nm, Intel will probably be a step ahead. I think that AMD probably won't be back in the pole position until they get their new architecture going in 45nm. Hopefully that will happen sooner in 07 than later 'cause imo, chipmakers desperately need good competition to avoid stagnation. I felt that after the X2's that AMD got caught up in the ATI merger and other issues that seem to have put them behind the curve. They knew Intel's new core was coming out for quite awhile, yet didn't or couldn't do anything about it. We really haven't seen anything innovative from them since their "corporate restructuring" (or whatever) began.
Keep in mind that this is all just my opinion. It's very likely that I'm talking out of the wrong orifice, so please put the pitchforks and torches away.
Regardless of what AMD does, dropping 1k on ANY cpu is a decision that needs to be based on true need. Do you really need that particular CPU for your work or gaming? By what I have read, the C2D is almost assured the performance crown for at least the next 4-6 months, maybe longer. By Q3 of 07, AMD should have retail availability for their answer to the C2D. At that point, one could decide to simply drop a core quad into the existing platform.
It is my thought that whatever AMD does for the better part of 07 in 65nm, Intel will probably be a step ahead. I think that AMD probably won't be back in the pole position until they get their new architecture going in 45nm. Hopefully that will happen sooner in 07 than later 'cause imo, chipmakers desperately need good competition to avoid stagnation. I felt that after the X2's that AMD got caught up in the ATI merger and other issues that seem to have put them behind the curve. They knew Intel's new core was coming out for quite awhile, yet didn't or couldn't do anything about it. We really haven't seen anything innovative from them since their "corporate restructuring" (or whatever) began.
Keep in mind that this is all just my opinion. It's very likely that I'm talking out of the wrong orifice, so please put the pitchforks and torches away.
liveload said:My opinion:
Regardless of what AMD does, dropping 1k on ANY cpu is a decision that needs to be based on true need. Do you really need that particular CPU for your work or gaming? By what I have read, the C2D is almost assured the performance crown for at least the next 4-6 months, maybe longer. By Q3 of 07, AMD should have retail availability for their answer to the C2D. At that point, one could decide to simply drop a core quad into the existing platform.
It is my thought that whatever AMD does for the better part of 07 in 65nm, Intel will probably be a step ahead. I think that AMD probably won't be back in the pole position until they get their new architecture going in 45nm. Hopefully that will happen sooner in 07 than later 'cause imo, chipmakers desperately need good competition to avoid stagnation. I felt that after the X2's that AMD got caught up in the ATI merger and other issues that seem to have put them behind the curve. They knew Intel's new core was coming out for quite awhile, yet didn't or couldn't do anything about it. We really haven't seen anything innovative from them since their "corporate restructuring" (or whatever) began.
Keep in mind that this is all just my opinion. It's very likely that I'm talking out of the wrong orifice, so please put the pitchforks and torches away.
IBM and AMD talked about 45nm not happening until 2008 at best. Intel has plans to ship 32nm in 2009. Intel demo-ed 45nm S-RAM back in Jan-06. Normal 18 months means July or August for 45nm Conroe. So even if Intel cuts prices again, since these processors are cheaper to make, they'll make plenty of Moo-Lah!
Arcygenical
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Donnie27 said:
Oh GOD I can't wait for a 45nm Q6300 chip *drools*
Donnie27 said:
Two things here Donnie
1: When has AMD EVER leaked data early? I cant think of a single time
2: Since when has ANYONE ever had an 18month node cycle? I cant think of a single time when that has been true for ANY company.
Also AMD demoed 45nm SRAM a month after Intel, so according to your theory AMD should be right behind Intel on 45nm?
coldpower27
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Optimistic projections currently slate 45nm processors for Q3 2007 for Intel, while the pessimistic ones slate for Q4 2007.
AMD is projected switch to the 45nm node is slated to happen in Mid 2008. So if done by AMD, they will indeed have a 18month product cycle for the 65nm generation, but this is coming on the heels of a 26-27 month one. With how long the 90nm node lasted for AMD.
The average processor node lifetime is 2 years aka 24 Months.
As well AMD demoed their SRAM chip in April 2006, while Intel demoed theirs in January. So it's more then 1 month lag time.
AMD is projected switch to the 45nm node is slated to happen in Mid 2008. So if done by AMD, they will indeed have a 18month product cycle for the 65nm generation, but this is coming on the heels of a 26-27 month one. With how long the 90nm node lasted for AMD.
The average processor node lifetime is 2 years aka 24 Months.
As well AMD demoed their SRAM chip in April 2006, while Intel demoed theirs in January. So it's more then 1 month lag time.
duby229 said:
Athlon64 running at only 800MHz but showing promised was showed off at Intel's IDF a full 15 months before it went on sale. X2 was shown 6 and demoed hands on 5 months before it went on sale. I've linked to both events before. They knew these were killer products so the leaked. Intel has almost always kept an 18 month cycle and now talked about an 18 month refresh after a 24 month upgrade to new products. That means first there will be a 45nm Conroe, the about 4 to 6 months later a 45nm New Architecture.
Sorry, I didn't see any AMD 45nm Demo, last I heard they only taped out 65nm LOL! Intel taped out 45nm.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20061019222838.html
well since i work in a fab ill let you guys know that its not easy to drop a few billion into a new fab every 1-2 years. plus the time it takes to make sure the machines develop the wafers correctly is alot of work (2-8 months per machine). so its not easy for little AMD to jump from one fab to another.
liveload said:My opinion:
Regardless of what AMD does, dropping 1k on ANY cpu is a decision that needs to be based on true need. Do you really need that particular CPU for your work or gaming? By what I have read, the C2D is almost assured the performance crown for at least the next 4-6 months, maybe longer. By Q3 of 07, AMD should have retail availability for their answer to the C2D. At that point, one could decide to simply drop a core quad into the existing platform.
It is my thought that whatever AMD does for the better part of 07 in 65nm, Intel will probably be a step ahead. I think that AMD probably won't be back in the pole position until they get their new architecture going in 45nm. Hopefully that will happen sooner in 07 than later 'cause imo, chipmakers desperately need good competition to avoid stagnation. I felt that after the X2's that AMD got caught up in the ATI merger and other issues that seem to have put them behind the curve. They knew Intel's new core was coming out for quite awhile, yet didn't or couldn't do anything about it. We really haven't seen anything innovative from them since their "corporate restructuring" (or whatever) began.
Keep in mind that this is all just my opinion. It's very likely that I'm talking out of the wrong orifice, so please put the pitchforks and torches away.
I think AMD/ATi has shown some innovative tech, but it's mostly been focused on platform tech and not pure CPU tech. I think our view on this board is somewhat skewed in that we only care about pure performance and what's the fastest. I think AMD is currently thinking about what sells. Laptops are a hot market and therefore AMD is working on a CPU/GPU combo chip that would fit well into the laptop/budget market. Servers have high margins and are doing quite well for AMD. While they may not have the fastest desktop chip or enthusiast solution, their chips scale quite well when you talk 8, 16, 32, 1024 processors in a server farm. I think AMD is in a good strategic position and I wouldn't be too surprised if they were quiet for awhile in the enthusiast desktop market. We simply don't buy enough chips for them to concentrate on us. I think they are getting the K8L out the door to be competitive and roughly match Core 2 performance but I'm next expecting something that will be clearly superior to Core 2. Once they are competitive, they can really start concentrating on the real money maker: platforms.
BigDH01 said:
One tiny problem though as one bud called it Core 2.5 Duo or Core 3 Quad will be out by the time K8L ships@65nm. Sure most folks hope it is faster than Core 2 Quad and hope the Dual Core version is faster or at least competitive.
Then folks should be worried about not only Performance and Price. IMHO, that's what AMD's PR stood for all of Not Perfomance Rate, but Price Rate. AMD has shown they have no problem with charging through the nose. SO hoping for a WINNER is a two-edge sword. If it does gain the performance crown back, you'll pay out the Wa-Zoo for the privilege of owning one LOL!
BigDH01 said:
This is a great point. Will AMD continue to hold it's own in those markets long enough to redress the balance of power with respect to performance? How will Dell's sales be affected? I can see an enterprise level decision being made to hold off on a planned upgrade due to perceived price vs performance issues. You might not get too many IT guys willing to ditch their current Dell platforms and qualify a whole new set of hardware, (even if it is from Dell) if they think the cost isn't worth the performance/productivity gain. They might find it more cost effective to simply drop in more ram company wide. Any Oracle based apps will love them for it, too.
I'm probably off in left field again, but it sounded good when I thought it over.
AFAIK intel updated the roadmap during last IDF and we will not see 45nm CPUs before 2008 - maybe that is only desktop parts? Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2007/0202/kaigai333.htm?www.reghardware.co.uk
thanks papa.
So January has passed and we are well into Febrary:
So what leaks are there?
So January has passed and we are well into Febrary:
So what leaks are there?
InorganicMatter
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It all depends. If K-late does indeed have the 40% advantage over Core 2 that AMD is promising, we will most certainly begin to see some "leaked" benchmarks from XS and the Inq in a month or so. If it only has a measly 10% advantage over Core 2 (as some "insiders" at XS are claiming), then you can be sure AMD will be bottled up tightly until launch day.
We shall see...
benchmarks from XS and the Inq in a month or so. If it only has a measly 10% advantage over Core 2 (as some "insiders" at XS are claiming), then you can be sure AMD will be bottled up tightly until launch day.We shall see...