5800x3D - How can it be tamed?

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madpistol

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I recently upgraded from a 3700x to a 5800x3D. All I can say is... woah. In every game I've played so far, it has been beast mode on steroids. Overwatch, Battlefield 2042, even old games like Unreal Tournament 2004... it doesn't matter what it is, the frame rates are much higher. In fact, I just played several rounds of Battlefield 2042, and it was unbelievably smooth. 1080p - low settings, I was getting 130-150 FPS average on a 128-player Conquest map. Even at 4K with settings turned up, I was still averaging 70-80'ish. I never remember getting this sort of performance out of my 3700x on that game. The 3700x always felt a bit jittery, but the 5800x3D is absolutely smooth. It's awesome!!!

So the question now is...

Is there a game out there that even comes close to pushing this CPU to its limit? Or are we once again in a bit of a "Golden Era" of CPUs, where the top end CPUs are just so far ahead that nothing can touch it?
 
overwatch was giving you issues? It uses like 12% of my 5930k.

UT2004? you arent serious, are you?
 
DF-1 said:
overwatch was giving you issues? It uses like 12% of my 5930k.

UT2004? you arent serious, are you?
Click to expand...
hes saying they hardly use the cpu, he wants something that will tax the cpu more. "tamed" is the wrong word and threw me off.



op, running at 4k is putting the majority of the work onto the gpu, so drop it lower it put more load on the cpu.
fs2020 used to chew up cpu but it doesnt look as bad now.
 
DF-1 said:
overwatch was giving you issues? It uses like 12% of my 5930k.

UT2004? you arent serious, are you?
Click to expand...

Just curious if you even read the OP's post before you shit on it?

I don't see him saying anything about having problems with Overwatch. Yes, people still play old games such as UT2004. Some older games still benefit tremendously from new CPUs since some older games literally do EVERYTHING in ONE thread.

madpistol said:
So the question now is...

Is there a game out there that even comes close to pushing this CPU to its limit? Or are we once again in a bit of a "Golden Era" of CPUs, where the top end CPUs are just so far ahead that nothing can touch it?
Click to expand...

One thing to remember is that core counts have exploded, but actual multi-core usage in games has always lagged far behind. Many games still struggle to use more than 4 cores effectively. Even among games that appear fairly multi-threaded, there will still be some tasks that are completely single-threaded.

So even though your 5800X3D has the same number of cores as your 3700X did, single-thread performance has significantly improved which does still mean a lot for most games. However, since only a fraction of the cores are being used, you're almost never going to see 100% CPU usage. Modern CPUs actually take this into account so you get a high "boost clock" when you are only using 1-3 cores, but core speeds go down when all cores are being used.
 
GotNoRice said:
Just curious if you even read the OP's post before you shit on it?

I don't see him saying anything about having problems with Overwatch. Yes, people still play old games such as UT2004. Some older games still benefit tremendously from new CPUs since some older games literally do EVERYTHING in ONE thread.
Click to expand...

Yes. I saw "Overwatch, Battlefield 2042, even old games like Unreal Tournament 2004... it doesn't matter what it is, the frame rates are much higher."

That to me means that the framerates were lower previously. Maybe I did read it wrong. but at 4k+ i limit my refresh to 117 for gsync on this 2014 CPU and it never falls below that, which is why I said what I said.
lol @ UT2004 "benefitting tremendously".
 
DF-1 said:
lol @ UT2004 "benefitting tremendously".
Click to expand...

I said "some older games". Almost any old open-ended RTS where you can create thousands of units can still benefit from a newer CPU. I play Supreme Commander (2007) and going from my 3900X to my 5900X made a difference when unit count gets up there. People still try to max their FPS in CS:Go which is based on Counter-Strike Source from ~2004.
 
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madpistol said:
I recently upgraded from a 3700x to a 5800x3D. All I can say is... woah. In every game I've played so far, it has been beast mode on steroids. Overwatch, Battlefield 2042, even old games like Unreal Tournament 2004... it doesn't matter what it is, the frame rates are much higher. In fact, I just played several rounds of Battlefield 2042, and it was unbelievably smooth. 1080p - low settings, I was getting 130-150 FPS average on a 128-player Conquest map. Even at 4K with settings turned up, I was still averaging 70-80'ish. I never remember getting this sort of performance out of my 3700x on that game. The 3700x always felt a bit jittery, but the 5800x3D is absolutely smooth. It's awesome!!!

So the question now is...

Is there a game out there that even comes close to pushing this CPU to its limit? Or are we once again in a bit of a "Golden Era" of CPUs, where the top end CPUs are just so far ahead that nothing can touch it?
Click to expand...

The 5800x3d isnt the end all be all of chips.....some games see a huge boost while others dont.

My 5600x gives me those frames in BF 2042 as it doesnt really benefit from the extra cache.
 
madpistol said:
I recently upgraded from a 3700x to a 5800x3D. All I can say is... woah. In every game I've played so far, it has been beast mode on steroids. Overwatch, Battlefield 2042, even old games like Unreal Tournament 2004... it doesn't matter what it is, the frame rates are much higher. In fact, I just played several rounds of Battlefield 2042, and it was unbelievably smooth. 1080p - low settings, I was getting 130-150 FPS average on a 128-player Conquest map. Even at 4K with settings turned up, I was still averaging 70-80'ish. I never remember getting this sort of performance out of my 3700x on that game. The 3700x always felt a bit jittery, but the 5800x3D is absolutely smooth. It's awesome!!!

So the question now is...

Is there a game out there that even comes close to pushing this CPU to its limit? Or are we once again in a bit of a "Golden Era" of CPUs, where the top end CPUs are just so far ahead that nothing can touch it?
Click to expand...
I'm glad its got some people excited. That performance has been available for a while with other chips and platforms, and yes they were more expensive. But the 5800x3d isnt market shattering.
 
DF-1 said:
overwatch was giving you issues? It uses like 12% of my 5930k.

UT2004? you arent serious, are you?
Click to expand...
You can be processor limited even at 12%. Insufficient cash on processor where the CPU is constantly waiting for memory accesses, thousands of clock cycles doing basically nothing. Plus the more single threaded applications which do not use the cores and threads available.
 
WilyKit said:
You do realize at 4K it wasn’t the cpu “giving” you 80 fps right?
Click to expand...
Just because it is 4K does not automatically mean the GPU is 100% loaded all the time. CPU can still be limiting, particularly on the 1% lows.
 
madpistol said:
I recently upgraded from a 3700x to a 5800x3D. All I can say is... woah. In every game I've played so far, it has been beast mode on steroids. Overwatch, Battlefield 2042, even old games like Unreal Tournament 2004... it doesn't matter what it is, the frame rates are much higher. In fact, I just played several rounds of Battlefield 2042, and it was unbelievably smooth. 1080p - low settings, I was getting 130-150 FPS average on a 128-player Conquest map. Even at 4K with settings turned up, I was still averaging 70-80'ish. I never remember getting this sort of performance out of my 3700x on that game. The 3700x always felt a bit jittery, but the 5800x3D is absolutely smooth. It's awesome!!!

So the question now is...

Is there a game out there that even comes close to pushing this CPU to its limit? Or are we once again in a bit of a "Golden Era" of CPUs, where the top end CPUs are just so far ahead that nothing can touch it?
Click to expand...
Might be off topic a bit but wait, is UT2k4 still have availability to play and is there still a player base?
 
madpistol said:
I recently upgraded from a 3700x to a 5800x3D. All I can say is... woah. In every game I've played so far, it has been beast mode on steroids. Overwatch, Battlefield 2042, even old games like Unreal Tournament 2004... it doesn't matter what it is, the frame rates are much higher. In fact, I just played several rounds of Battlefield 2042, and it was unbelievably smooth. 1080p - low settings, I was getting 130-150 FPS average on a 128-player Conquest map. Even at 4K with settings turned up, I was still averaging 70-80'ish. I never remember getting this sort of performance out of my 3700x on that game. The 3700x always felt a bit jittery, but the 5800x3D is absolutely smooth. It's awesome!!!

So the question now is...

Is there a game out there that even comes close to pushing this CPU to its limit? Or are we once again in a bit of a "Golden Era" of CPUs, where the top end CPUs are just so far ahead that nothing can touch it?
Click to expand...
Well If you're that fanatical about FPS I think you would be a good candidate for a 240 monitor? Unless you are already using one?that would push your new CPU like crazy.
 
noko said:
And I clearly stated you can still be limited at 4k other than the GPU.
Click to expand...
You said 1% lows. He said average. Show me some examples of average fps being limited by something other than the GPU in modern games.

And more importantly do you think his fos drop when going from 1080 to 4k wasn’t due to a GPU limitation?
 
WilyKit said:
You said 1% lows. He said average. Show me some examples of average fps being limited by something other than the GPU in modern games.

And more importantly do you think his fos drop when going from 1080 to 4k wasn’t due to a GPU limitation?
Click to expand...
You can do the research, I have much better things to do.

Depends on the game, workload etc. 1080p to 4k the 3960x had the same fps in flight simulator 2020 at near max quality settings using a 3090.

Many different types of limitations can occur, memory bandwidth, different types of CPU limitations, GPU which can have limitations from not enough memory or insufficient bandwidth, pcie bandwidth,, besides the GPU itself. API limitations such as limited threads for draw calls.

A speedy processor that can keep the cores fed vice waiting for memory fetches can have a huge difference in performance even at 4k.
 
WilyKit said:
You said 1% lows. He said average. Show me some examples of average fps being limited by something other than the GPU in modern games.

And more importantly do you think his fos drop when going from 1080 to 4k wasn’t due to a GPU limitation?
Click to expand...
You will likely get a few one-off examples like you always do in these type of things. Just like very few games that utilize over 10gb GPU mem.
 
noko said:
You can do the research, I have much better things to do.

Depends on the game, workload etc. 1080p to 4k the 3960x had the same fps in flight simulator 2020 at near max quality settings using a 3090.

Many different types of limitations can occur, memory bandwidth, different types of CPU limitations, GPU which can have limitations from not enough memory or insufficient bandwidth, pcie bandwidth,, besides the GPU itself. API limitations such as limited threads for draw calls.

A speedy processor that can keep the cores fed vice waiting for memory fetches can have a huge difference in performance even at 4k.
Click to expand...

My comment that hurt you was that his 80 fps average at 4k was due to the GPU.

In your opinion is his 80 fps average GPU or cpu bound?
 
Furious_Styles said:
You will likely get a few one-off examples like you always do in these type of things. Just like very few games that utilize over 10gb GPU mem.
Click to expand...
I don’t doubt there are rare exceptions but OP gave us enough specifics to know better. We know the games, the resolution, and that he was referencing to average fps as his performance metric.
 
WilyKit said:
My comment that hurt you was that his 80 fps average at 4k was due to the GPU.

In your opinion is his 80 fps average GPU or cpu bound?
Click to expand...
You can be both CPU and GPU bound in the same game depending upon what is being done at the time. Some of the lows could be either. At lower resolutions and setting the ratio of being CPU bound can be higher then at higher resolutions. Doea not mean your not CPU bound at times at higher resolutions.

Being totally CPU bound which in itself is very misleading or totally GPU bound throughout an intensive modern game would be rare. Your hitting limitations on different parts of the system depending upon what is going on in the game.
 
For giggles, I put in my "old" Ryzen 5 2600 today, and I found Battlefield 2042 to average around 45-60 FPS on 128 Conquest maps. The CPU is not fast enough to feed an RTX 3080 fully at 4K (at least in this game).

Yikes.

It's quite amazing how far AMD has come in such a short period of time. The 3D v-cache makes things even better.
 
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noko said:
You can be both CPU and GPU bound in the same game depending upon what is being done at the time. Some of the lows could be either. At lower resolutions and setting the ratio of being CPU bound can be higher then at higher resolutions. Doea not mean your not CPU bound at times at higher resolutions.

Being totally CPU bound which in itself is very misleading or totally GPU bound throughout an intensive modern game would be rare. Your hitting limitations on different parts of the system depending upon what is going on in the game.
Click to expand...
You appear to be having a very hard time with the word “average”

Let’s try this again… Do you think is 80 fps AVERAGE at 4K is GPU or CPU bound? Not lows, not highs, AVERAGE. its a simple question and there IS an answer. Do you know what it is?

In other words, would his averages at 4K improve more if he had a CPU 2x as powerful or a GPU 2x as powerful?
 
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noko said:
You can do the research, I have much better things to do.

Depends on the game, workload etc. 1080p to 4k the 3960x had the same fps in flight simulator 2020 a

near max quality settings using a 3090.

Many different types of limitations can occur, memory bandwidth, different types of CPU limitations, GPU which can have limitations from not enough memory or insufficient bandwidth, pcie bandwidth,, besides the GPU itself. API limitations such as limited threads for draw calls.

A speedy processor that can keep the cores fed vice waiting for memory fetches can have a huge difference in performance even at 4k.
Click to expand...
Flight simulator is a whole different beast at launch when it was very unoptimized
 
WilyKit said:
You appear to be having a very hard time with the word “average”

Let’s try this again… Do you think is 80 fps AVERAGE at 4K is GPU or CPU bound? Not lows, not highs, AVERAGE. its a simple question and there IS an answer. Do you know what it is?

In other words, would his averages at 4K improve more if he had a CPU 2x as powerful or a GPU 2x as powerful?
Click to expand...
That all depends on the game. Flight simulator you could have 10x more GPU power and the average (almost worthless metric) would barely change from a 3090. 2x the CPU and then the 3090 becomes more the limiting factor with much higher frame rates.

Seems like you have a hang up on the average. 1% lows, frame times and really the game experience is predominately better metrics. Another example,, If you ever done VR, averages mean nothing, what matters is consistency or frame rate at the rated hz of the headset. To keep some folks from headaches and throwing up your McChiken meal.
 
Vengance_01 said:
Flight simulator is a whole different beast at launch when it was very unoptimized
Click to expand...
There are other games where, particularly the lowes are dramatically increased with the 5800x3d. Points that people do notice when frame rates take a dumpster dive while playing.
 
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noko said:
That all depends on the game. Flight simulator you could have 10x more GPU power and the average (almost worthless metric) would barely change from a 3090. 2x the CPU and then the 3090 becomes more the limiting factor with much higher frame rates.

Seems like you have a hang up on the average. 1% lows, frame times and really the game experience is predominately better metrics. Another example,, If you ever done VR, averages mean nothing, what matters is consistency or frame rate at the rated hz of the headset. To keep some folks from headaches and throwing up your McChiken meal.
Click to expand...
The game is BF2042.maybe try reading the OP before arguing genius. No one arguing 1% lows. Again the comment that hurt you was regarding averages. Not 1% lows. You’re lost.
 
madpistol said:
I recently upgraded from a 3700x to a 5800x3D. All I can say is... woah. In every game I've played so far, it has been beast mode on steroids. Overwatch, Battlefield 2042, even old games like Unreal Tournament 2004... it doesn't matter what it is, the frame rates are much higher. In fact, I just played several rounds of Battlefield 2042, and it was unbelievably smooth. 1080p - low settings, I was getting 130-150 FPS average on a 128-player Conquest map. Even at 4K with settings turned up, I was still averaging 70-80'ish. I never remember getting this sort of performance out of my 3700x on that game. The 3700x always felt a bit jittery, but the 5800x3D is absolutely smooth. It's awesome!!!

So the question now is...

Is there a game out there that even comes close to pushing this CPU to its limit? Or are we once again in a bit of a "Golden Era" of CPUs, where the top end CPUs are just so far ahead that nothing can touch it?
Click to expand...
There's a massive generational leap from Ryzen 2 to 3. Your single threaded performance jumps from 15-20% on a basic Ryzen 5000 series over the 3700x. The X3D is just a gaming beast, less spectacular in other workloads. But it's equivalent (mostly) to Intel's Top of the line 12th Gen parts as far as gaming is concerned. A lot of the older titles you tested will be heavily favoring single threaded performance.

Newer titles will benefit from the more advanced cores and the buttload of cache on the chip.

As far as taxing it in games, it will be years before the processor itself starts showing it's age. Most games are geared around 8 cores (or less) due to consoles carrying the same core counts.

Load up Cyberpunk, run it at 1080P and turn on everything. Then enable full ray tracing at maximum quality, I would imagine that will drop your FPS significantly.

4K is heavily GPU dependent.
 
WilyKit said:
The game is BF2042.maybe try reading the OP before arguing genius. No one arguing 1% lows. Again the comment that hurt you was regarding averages. Not 1% lows. You’re lost.
Click to expand...
I would have figured you would have figured out that I care less about averages. Anyone dealing with AMD previous CrossFire setups would know averages mean shit is one example. SLI was better but the actual game experience, what really matters was not as smooth then with a single GPU in many cases. LOL what did you win?
 
WilyKit said:
The game is BF2042.maybe try reading the OP before arguing genius. No one arguing 1% lows. Again the comment that hurt you was regarding averages. Not 1% lows. You’re lost.
Click to expand...
"Averages" is pretty meaningless without a context. I am not native english, but wasn´t OP trying to use average to describe the increased smoothness he observed in games? There is more to having an average FPS then just a number when it comes to smoothness and giving average FPS any real world meaning. Two systems can have equal averages, but one of them can stutter much, while the other is smooth. It all depends on frametime variations. This is also true on 4k, even though CPU gets more breathing room there in most new games and CPU matters less the more GPU bound your system gets. Still you can get dips. How close the dips are to each other and how severe they are, matters much regarding the gameplay experience.

On competitive shooters like BF2042 it also matters WHEN the dips occur. I believe OPs statement of both higher average FPS and smoother gameplay is true on his system with RTX 3080 and 5800X3D in BF2042 vs. his old CPU setup. Even more, I think it can be measured to be true also on a 128 player conquest map:
https://www.techspot.com/article/2370-battlefield-cpu-128-multiplayer/

Multiplayer maps with lots of players tend to favor faster CPUs. BF2042 seems to favor Ryzen 5000/Intel 12000 series and there is even some memory latency scaling. :)

Instead of bickering about the word average, isn´t it more fun with the context of smoothness and OPs enjoyment of getting a better gaming experience with a new, shiny computer part? Noko makes some interesting points there then.
 
noko said:
I would have figured you would have figured out that I care less about averages. Anyone dealing with AMD previous CrossFire setups would know averages mean shit is one example. SLI was better but the actual game experience, what really matters was not as smooth then with a single GPU in many cases. LOL what did you win?
Click to expand...
what You care about isn’t relevant. It’s about what the OP posted (averages) and what I responded to. (Averages) like I said, maybe read the OP before engaging in arguments and talking about your own random topics.
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
"Averages" is pretty meaningless without a context. I am not native english, but wasn´t OP trying to use average to describe the increased smoothness he observed in games? There is more to having an average FPS then just a number when it comes to smoothness and giving average FPS any real world meaning. Two systems can have equal averages, but one of them can stutter much, while the other is smooth. It all depends on frametime variations. This is also true on 4k, even though CPU gets more breathing room there in most new games and CPU matters less the more GPU bound your system gets. Still you can get dips. How close the dips are to each other and how severe they are, matters much regarding the gameplay experience.

On competitive shooters like BF2042 it also matters WHEN the dips occur. I believe OPs statement of both higher average FPS and smoother gameplay is true on his system with RTX 3080 and 5800X3D in BF2042 vs. his old CPU setup. Even more, I think it can be measured to be true also on a 128 player conquest map:
https://www.techspot.com/article/2370-battlefield-cpu-128-multiplayer/

Multiplayer maps with lots of players tend to favor faster CPUs. BF2042 seems to favor Ryzen 5000/Intel 12000 series and there is even some memory latency scaling. :)

Instead of bickering about the word average, isn´t it more fun with the context of smoothness and OPs enjoyment of getting a better gaming experience with a new, shiny computer part? Noko makes some interesting points there then.
Click to expand...
A better CPU will certainly help keep more consistent frame times. No arguing that.
 
madpistol said:
I recently upgraded from a 3700x to a 5800x3D. All I can say is... woah. In every game I've played so far, it has been beast mode on steroids. Overwatch, Battlefield 2042, even old games like Unreal Tournament 2004... it doesn't matter what it is, the frame rates are much higher. In fact, I just played several rounds of Battlefield 2042, and it was unbelievably smooth. 1080p - low settings, I was getting 130-150 FPS average on a 128-player Conquest map. Even at 4K with settings turned up, I was still averaging 70-80'ish. I never remember getting this sort of performance out of my 3700x on that game. The 3700x always felt a bit jittery, but the 5800x3D is absolutely smooth. It's awesome!!!

So the question now is...

Is there a game out there that even comes close to pushing this CPU to its limit? Or are we once again in a bit of a "Golden Era" of CPUs, where the top end CPUs are just so far ahead that nothing can touch it?
Click to expand...
iRacing in VR hammers it. Nothing else I have does but a race start with a full grid at Nurburgring or Lemans maxes a single core and it can't quite keep up with the 3090.
 
the 5800X3D is a great CPU but it's not the one that'll end all upgrades for the next decade...it's because you're playing at 1080p...try playing at 1440p or 4K
 
madpistol said:
For giggles, I put in my "old" Ryzen 5 2600 today, and I found Battlefield 2042 to average around 45-60 FPS on 128 Conquest maps. The CPU is not fast enough to feed an RTX 3080 fully at 4K (at least in this game).

Yikes.

It's quite amazing how far AMD has come in such a short period of time. The 3D v-cache makes things even better.
Click to expand...

5950x will get you more frames than the 5800x3d in bf2042 cause its hungry for GHZ. I think BF4 and BF5 will get a big frame boost from that 3d cache
 
It is the fastest cpu in star citizen by far.
If 7000 series wasn’t coming out I would pick one up.
 
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