5800X/5900X motherboard pairing

vegeta535

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Why the heck would you go high end on the board NOW??

AM4 is on its last legs. This is the last run before DD5, USB4, etc etc. Imo this is throwing away money cuz after this gen (2021) the industry will be shifting to DD5. Hmm, I suppose if you don't plan on moving to the next platform then this is a non-issue. If it were me I'd get a midrange board, a Strix-E/CH8 Hero which is 95% of a Crosshair and call it a day.
Cause a system with a 5xxx cpu will be stiller baller for a long time? Not everyone upgrades every cpu release. I just sold my 3950x and will upgrade to a probably a 5900x and that will be my system for the next 5 years. We really are gpu bound more then anything nowadays when you try to push 4k or higher.
 

lopoetve

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Cause a system with a 5xxx cpu will be stiller baller for a long time? Not everyone upgrades every cpu release. I just sold my 3950x and will upgrade to a probably a 5900x and that will be my system for the next 5 years. We really are gpu bound more then anything nowadays when you try to push 4k or higher.

When you need it, you buy it - almost all of it lasts a long time these days anyway, even if htere's no upgrade path. I'd still be on my 6700K if not for external factors. There still wasn't a need to upgrade for 1440P/4k.
 

thesmokingman

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Cause a system with a 5xxx cpu will be stiller baller for a long time? Not everyone upgrades every cpu release. I just sold my 3950x and will upgrade to a probably a 5900x and that will be my system for the next 5 years. We really are gpu bound more then anything nowadays when you try to push 4k or higher.

You don't get it baller. Buying a top end board so close to the end of the platform... it's not the best use of that money unless you plan to stay on that platform as I wrote if you read it. In a year that top end board will be yesterdays news and that really is bad bad timing imo. You may think differenty but I think dropping 6 bills on a soon to be dead platform is a waste.
 

thesmokingman

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Will the rog crosshair viii hero support or be compatible with the r9 5950x?? I can't find the answer

You didn't look very hard as all 5 series boards support Zen 3. Oh I should add that 4 series boards get support too leaving 3 series boards w/o it.
 
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Ready4Dis

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If coming from intel to the 5900x which amd motherboard will be cpu-drop-in-ready without a bios update?
None of them unless it was recently updated by the manufacturer and was updated after zen3 bios was released.
That said, a good amount of x570 boards are able to be flashed without a CPU installed, which means you can update the bios without needing an older model to do so. Bios flashback or w/e each individual manufacturer calls it is what allows this. This is much simpler than finding a CPU to borrow or getting a bootkit from AMD and temporarily installing an older CPU to update bios and swapping back out. If you are worried about doing this, just make sure you get a board with this feature and it's a non issue.
 

lopoetve

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You don't get it baller. Buying a top end board so close to the end of the platform... it's not the best use of that money unless you plan to stay on that platform as I wrote if you read it. In a year that top end board will be yesterdays news and that really is bad bad timing imo. You may think differenty but I think dropping 6 bills on a soon to be dead platform is a waste.
And a year after that there will be another new platform, and the year after that, and so on. X370-470-570... if the features are useful now, they’ll be useful later - and will still have value.
 

thesmokingman

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And a year after that there will be another new platform, and the year after that, and so on. X370-470-570... if the features are useful now, they’ll be useful later - and will still have value.

Dude, don't BS. How long did AM4 last us? From x370 to x570 that's all the same platform. And as I wrote spend your money how you see fit. I however would not be spending 6 fucking billls on a board when the next platform will be here in a year. How hard is that to understand?
 

lopoetve

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Dude, don't BS. How long did AM4 last us? From x370 to x570 that's all the same platform. And as I wrote spend your money how you see fit. I however would not be spending 6 fucking billls on a board when the next platform will be here in a year. How hard is that to understand?
You can choose not to all you want. Plenty of us did; and I’d argue you’re just referring to the socket. There were major differences between 370 and 570 in terms of features and capabilities (more nvme, better compatibility, better audio and other features, add in cards included, 10G/2.5G/5G built in ports, etc) which may well justify an upgrade. I almost did it (1700-3950 and going from a base 370 board to high end 570) just a month or two ago, but went to TR instead.

There will always be something newer and better coming. Only the individual knows what their needs are, and a lot of people don’t upgrade for years- who cares if the socket had 2-3 generations if you’re 6 generations old, you’re not going to bother with a partial upgrade then- you’re buying new anyway for the board and the cpu.

You do you. Buying a high end 570 board now is no different than buying a high end 570 board 6 months ago- we have no idea when Zen4 will actually arrive or how it will act and perform, the only thing we do know is how Zen3 performs on 570 today. If that has value to you, but what you want.
 

crazycrave

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None of them unless it was recently updated by the manufacturer and was updated after zen3 bios was released.
That said, a good amount of x570 boards are able to be flashed without a CPU installed, which means you can update the bios without needing an older model to do so. Bios flashback or w/e each individual manufacturer calls it is what allows this. This is much simpler than finding a CPU to borrow or getting a bootkit from AMD and temporarily installing an older CPU to update bios and swapping back out. If you are worried about doing this, just make sure you get a board with this feature and it's a non issue.

In the video I linked the MSI B550m Mortar shows the flash switch in the I O rear plate ,
 

Ready4Dis

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In the video I linked the MSI B550m Mortar shows the flash switch in the I O rear plate ,
Look in the manual, Ive seen boards that still require a CPU with that button, it just started the flash from USB. I think most nowadays that have that button are flashback, but I'm not 100% positive on all boards so better safe than sorry. MSI flash bios button (any of the models I've seen, b450 or b550) does not require a CPU or ram installed to use so should be a safe bet. Other companies have similar as well, just verify before purchase ;).
 

polonyc2

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The MSI X570 Unify is fine. It's a good board with a good VRM implementation. If you aren't looking to pay for fluff features, it's what your looking for...
doesn't the X570 Tomahawk have better VRM then a lot of really expensive boards?
 

Dan_D

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doesn't the X570 Tomahawk have better VRM then a lot of really expensive boards?

Pretty much. If I remember right it's a 6 phase that's been doubled to 12 for vCore. It's very efficient and the motherboard is a little over $200 if I am not mistaken.
 

Chelica

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I'm wanting to see how much the refreshed Asus B550 board is going to be. Really wanting to try an Asus board this time around. MSI a close second.
 

SmokeRngs

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I'm wanting to see how much the refreshed Asus B550 board is going to be. Really wanting to try an Asus board this time around. MSI a close second.
Since B550 boards practically just came out I wouldn't expect to see many, if any, that are refreshed. There's nothing new they can do with the chipset and the only real upgrade path for most would be peripheral items such as sound and networking and in most cases B550 boards don't have anywhere to go with upgrades for those items. It's one of the reasons B550 boards tend to be a lot more expensive than B450 boards and a lot of the B550 boards are in x570 price ranges.

Motherboard refreshes we'll likely see the most of are for x570 boards to put them at feature parity with b550 boards such as with sound and networking. Oddly enough Asus is putting out refreshed b450 boards. The Asus B450-F Gaming board I have is supposed to end up as one of the refreshed models with some of the changes being a different VRM implementation and BIOS flashback option. That said, I wouldn't buy a new b450 motherboard for use with Zen 3 no matter what they did to refresh a model.
 

Chelica

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Since B550 boards practically just came out I wouldn't expect to see many, if any, that are refreshed. There's nothing new they can do with the chipset and the only real upgrade path for most would be peripheral items such as sound and networking and in most cases B550 boards don't have anywhere to go with upgrades for those items. It's one of the reasons B550 boards tend to be a lot more expensive than B450 boards and a lot of the B550 boards are in x570 price ranges.

Motherboard refreshes we'll likely see the most of are for x570 boards to put them at feature parity with b550 boards such as with sound and networking. Oddly enough Asus is putting out refreshed b450 boards. The Asus B450-F Gaming board I have is supposed to end up as one of the refreshed models with some of the changes being a different VRM implementation and BIOS flashback option. That said, I wouldn't buy a new b450 motherboard for use with Zen 3 no matter what they did to refresh a model.
I was referring to their recent announcement for these 2 boards:
https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/ROG-Strix-B550-XE-Gaming-WIFI/
https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/TUF-GAMING-X570-PRO-WI-FI/

The TUF board is listed at $219.99 with Oct 26 release date. No further information on the B550-XE.
 

TheSlySyl

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I'm super happy with my X570 Taichi, but I got this board specifically because I needed (at least) the 3X NVME and 8X SATA slots.

I'm also not gonna overclock super high, as I need long term stability more than FPS.

I've also somehow only ended up with ASrock this entire generation for myself (I upgraded from a launch X370 Gaming K4) so I don't have much experience with other boards this time around. Though I have built Biostar and Asus AM4 systems.
 

amd7674

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putting together 2 builds with msi tomahawk x570 mobos (excellent vrm permformer) with 5800x or 5900x (leaning toward 5900x ATM).
 

Dan_D

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Will the rog crosshair viii hero support or be compatible with the r9 5950x?? I can't find the answer

Almost certainly it will. It's just a BIOS update that's required to support it. Many X570 boards have updates or planned updates for Ryzen 5000 series compatibility. These should be available on or before the Ryzen 5000 series launch. This is being handled better this time due to the fact that we aren't getting a new chipset. You won't have to wait the way X470 users do.

I'm super happy with my X570 Taichi, but I got this board specifically because I needed (at least) the 3X NVME and 8X SATA slots.

I'm also not gonna overclock super high, as I need long term stability more than FPS.

I've also somehow only ended up with ASrock this entire generation for myself (I upgraded from a launch X370 Gaming K4) so I don't have much experience with other boards this time around. Though I have built Biostar and Asus AM4 systems.

On the AMD side, overclocking generally doesn't net you more FPS. You trade the higher boost clocks of the one or two cores that can do it for a higher all core frequency. Even when you are doing per CCX overclocking, you will be limited by the weaker cores within the CCX and lose those higher boost clocks in single-threaded or lightly threaded applications like games. Overclocking benefits the multi-threaded workloads that the Ryzen series excels at. The only time that overclocking might benefit you is on the lower end of the stack where the boost clocks are lower and you can increase the all core clocks over what the CPU normally does. Basically, a 3600X or 3700X benefits from it in specific cases but the 3900X or 3950X do not benefit from overclocking in applications such as games.

As an example: The Ryzen 7 3700X has a boost clock of only 4.4GHz. That means only one or two cores are going to boost that high out of the eight. Your CPU should boost to around 4.0-4.1GHz all core. An increase to 4.3GHz all core through overclocking usually has some small benefit across most applications and even games. While the clocks would be lower in this scenario for single-threaded applications, they wouldn't ever fall below 4.3GHz and thus, you do see improvements in frame rates.

On the other hand, the Ryzen 9 3950X has a boost clock of 4.7GHz. An all core overclock that would match that would require liquid nitrogen. There is no getting around that. A standard all core overclock for one of those is around 4.2-4.3GHz. You loose 400-500MHz of boost clock by overclocking. Unlike in the above scenario, this is a significant amount of clock speed loss. This still helps you with multi-threaded workloads as your typical boost clock sits around 4.15GHz. An overclock to 4.2GHz or more would be helpful for those tasks while hurting single-threaded performance.

Of course, you are talking about the 5000 series, which brings up a lot of questions we can't answer yet. The fact is, we don't know how they overclock, what their boost clock behavior really is beyond the specs we've been given etc. However, I seriously doubt that the 5000 series will be a monster overclocker. The Ryzen series hasn't been since day one. They improve the clocks at a very incremental rate with each generation. There is a reason why each 3950X or 3900X only has one or two cores that can hit 4.6-4.7GHz. The rest can hit 4.3-4.4GHz only under the best circumstances and manual tuning.

On the subject of VRM's, they are important. A good VRM implementation provides stability. You get a cooler running motherboard by having a robust VRM. More phases allows the load to be spread out across more components and run them at less capacity. Boost clocks are also influences by factors such as the VRM's. I'm not saying you need some 16 phase monster, but the bargain bin designs like MSI's X570-A Pro can't exactly handle the 3950X with room to spare. It won't handle a 5950X any better.
 
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oldmanbal

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I got an MSI gaming wifi x570, and couldn't be happier. Under 200 iirc, and has 2 m.2 drive bays. love that pcie 4, just waiting for more drives to land so I can have a dedicated gaming 2tb @ 7gb. This board has 2 cpu power inputs so it supports the high core chips like the 12 and 16. I get 4.4ghz all core on a 3600 below 60w. It's a true marvel.
 

Dan_D

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This board has 2 cpu power inputs so it supports the high core chips like the 12 and 16. I get 4.4ghz all core on a 3600 below 60w. It's a true marvel.

It's great that you are pleased with the board. However, you are mistaken as to the boards technical merits.

Except that's not remotely how that works. The VRM on that motherboard isn't all that robust. It's a 4+2 phase motherboard that uses doublers. The power stages are 46A each or something like that. That's on the low end of the spectrum. It's entry level at best While you can use 12 and 16 core CPU's on them, it won't handle them all that well. The most that VRM can output is 368w or thereabouts. An overclocked 3950X pulls around 300w. It won't hit 368w but it means you would be running that VRM close to capacity. That means, it won't be very efficient and it won't run cool. Especially not with that "meh" MOSFET cooler. The voltage controller isn't exactly amazing so it will take more work to achieve those clocks on that board than it would a higher end option. BTW, that second power connector you speak of isn't needed as the 8-pin can handle up to 384w on its own. No board actually needs them simply from an electrical perspective.

You are judging a motherboard by how it overclocks a 6c/12t CPU at the bottom of the product stack. Just because it can do that well doesn't mean its well suited to running 12 and 16 core parts. You can do it, but it's not going to handle those as well as your 3600. I wouldn't run more than a 12 core CPU at stock speeds on that thing. I've run 12 and 16 core CPU's on lower end motherboards. It's not pretty.
 

lopoetve

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It's great that you are pleased with the board. However, you are mistaken as to the boards technical merits.

Except that's not remotely how that works. The VRM on that motherboard isn't all that robust. It's a 4+2 phase motherboard that uses doublers. The power stages are 46A each or something like that. That's on the low end of the spectrum. It's entry level at best While you can use 12 and 16 core CPU's on them, it won't handle them all that well. The most that VRM can output is 368w or thereabouts. An overclocked 3950X pulls around 300w. It won't hit 368w but it means you would be running that VRM close to capacity. That means, it won't be very efficient and it won't run cool. Especially not with that "meh" MOSFET cooler. The voltage controller isn't exactly amazing so it will take more work to achieve those clocks on that board than it would a higher end option. BTW, that second power connector you speak of isn't needed as the 8-pin can handle up to 384w on its own. No board actually needs them simply from an electrical perspective.

You are judging a motherboard by how it overclocks a 6c/12t CPU at the bottom of the product stack. Just because it can do that well doesn't mean its well suited to running 12 and 16 core parts. You can do it, but it's not going to handle those as well as your 3600. I wouldn't run more than a 12 core CPU at stock speeds on that thing. I've run 12 and 16 core CPU's on lower end motherboards. It's not pretty.

Random question as I debate a new server - if you needed to buy a cheap X570 board for a 3950X (no OC), 64G of ram (at JDEC speeds, not even XMP), with 2x NVMe and 2x PCIE, what would you get?
 

Dan_D

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Random question as I debate a new server - if you needed to buy a cheap X570 board for a 3950X (no OC), 64G of ram (at JDEC speeds, not even XMP), with 2x NVMe and 2x PCIE, what would you get?

That's easy. The MSI X570 Tomahawk. There is a reason why they sell like RTX 3080's when they are in stock. You get a good VRM and all the rest at $200 or so. As for the RAM, you should be able to run 4 modulex at DDR4 2666MHz or 2933MHz on any decently built board. MSI does a very good job on the memory clocking front which is why I selected the board I did. I wouldn't run any RAM on any Ryzen at JEDEC speeds. They benefit too much from increases in memory clocks and tighter timings.
 

Brackle

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That's easy. The MSI X570 Tomahawk. There is a reason why they sell like RTX 3080's when they are in stock. You get a good VRM and all the rest at $200 or so. As for the RAM, you should be able to run 4 modulex at DDR4 2666MHz or 2933MHz on any decently built board. MSI does a very good job on the memory clocking front which is why I selected the board I did. I wouldn't run any RAM on any Ryzen at JEDEC speeds. They benefit too much from increases in memory clocks and tighter timings.

Cannot praise MSI enough for some of their newer x570 motherboards, specially the Tomahawk! I have been an avid Asus motherboard users for years, but MSI really stepped up recently with the X570 motherboards (Stay away from the MSI X570-A Pro, and X570 Gaming Carbon Pro. Terrible VRM's).
 

Dan_D

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Cannot praise MSI enough for some of their newer x570 motherboards, specially the Tomahawk! I have been an avid Asus motherboard users for years, but MSI really stepped up recently with the X570 motherboards (Stay away from the MSI X570-A Pro, and X570 Gaming Carbon Pro. Terrible VRM's).

Well that's the whole point. MSI probably never would have created the Tomahawk had it not been for the fiasco that was their initial budget X570 offerings. The funny thing is, those low end VRM's are bad because they run excessively hot. They almost never get the heat sinks they need to work effectively when pushed. Meanwhile, your ultra high end VRM's could damn near run with anything for a heat sink given how overbuilt they are.

While MSI gets a lot of praise for the X570 Tomahawk, it's just damage control for the bad PR due to the budget X570 boards they built with horrid VRMs. I'm not even sure they make much if any money on them.
 
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oldmanbal

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It's great that you are pleased with the board. However, you are mistaken as to the boards technical merits.

Except that's not remotely how that works. The VRM on that motherboard isn't all that robust. It's a 4+2 phase motherboard that uses doublers. The power stages are 46A each or something like that. That's on the low end of the spectrum. It's entry level at best While you can use 12 and 16 core CPU's on them, it won't handle them all that well. The most that VRM can output is 368w or thereabouts. An overclocked 3950X pulls around 300w. It won't hit 368w but it means you would be running that VRM close to capacity. That means, it won't be very efficient and it won't run cool. Especially not with that "meh" MOSFET cooler. The voltage controller isn't exactly amazing so it will take more work to achieve those clocks on that board than it would a higher end option. BTW, that second power connector you speak of isn't needed as the 8-pin can handle up to 384w on its own. No board actually needs them simply from an electrical perspective.

You are judging a motherboard by how it overclocks a 6c/12t CPU at the bottom of the product stack. Just because it can do that well doesn't mean its well suited to running 12 and 16 core parts. You can do it, but it's not going to handle those as well as your 3600. I wouldn't run more than a 12 core CPU at stock speeds on that thing. I've run 12 and 16 core CPU's on lower end motherboards. It's not pretty.
It's too bad paying a few hundred extra dollars only yields 100 mhz these days
 

lopoetve

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That's easy. The MSI X570 Tomahawk. There is a reason why they sell like RTX 3080's when they are in stock. You get a good VRM and all the rest at $200 or so. As for the RAM, you should be able to run 4 modulex at DDR4 2666MHz or 2933MHz on any decently built board. MSI does a very good job on the memory clocking front which is why I selected the board I did. I wouldn't run any RAM on any Ryzen at JEDEC speeds. They benefit too much from increases in memory clocks and tighter timings.
How's the B550 Tomahawk vs the x570?

Edit: I ask because I could get away with one M2, one 10G card, and the SATA ports... and I can get the B550 locally easily for $170. X570 version is a bitch to find, as you know.
 

crazycrave

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How's the B550 Tomahawk vs the x570?

Edit: I ask because I could get away with one M2, one 10G card, and the SATA ports... and I can get the B550 locally easily for $170. X570 version is a bitch to find, as you know.
In Hardware Unboxed video , Steve says the Mortar is just a cut off B550 Tomahawk
 

Dan_D

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How's the B550 Tomahawk vs the x570?

Edit: I ask because I could get away with one M2, one 10G card, and the SATA ports... and I can get the B550 locally easily for $170. X570 version is a bitch to find, as you know.

In Hardware Unboxed video , Steve says the Mortar is just a cut off B550 Tomahawk

I hadn't looked at one. But if so, that sounds pretty good.
 

lopoetve

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In Hardware Unboxed video , Steve says the Mortar is just a cut off B550 Tomahawk
Yeah. Reading through the PCIE limits- it should do the job. Disable the WiFi, one small graphics card, one 10G card, and then maybe even two NVMe and 4 sata, or one big and 6 sata... I can make this work. Fascinating.

Edit. Never mind. The way MSI allocated the PCIE links is weird. If you use the second NVMe slot, you can't use ANY of the other PCIE ports - but you always get the 6 SATA ports. But they share PCIE bandwidth with the chipset and the second PCIE slot...

So, 10G network sharing with 6 sata drives over x4 for my use case, not... ideal. Can't use the second NVMe slot unless I have a cpu with built-in graphics (and I need a 3950 style CPU for this - 16c), so that's out...

x570 it is. I need the extra lanes. Or a system with a built-in 10G card. Oh well. Seemed like a way to save $30 and the headache of trying to catch an x570 in. That, or I just buy a Unify :p
 
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Magma

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... Seemed like a way to save $30 and the headache of trying to catch an x570 in. That, or I just buy a Unify :p
Yep, this and for the same reason. My Unify should be here courtesy of NewEgg in a couple days. Since the 5000 series procs don't have built-in graphics to use the HDMI port on the X570 Tomahawk anyway, you might as well get the extra M.2 slot with the Unify and not have to spend time trying to snipe a Tomahawk or pay the scalper price for one. :)
 

illli

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I'm wanting to see how much the refreshed Asus B550 board is going to be. Really wanting to try an Asus board this time around. MSI a close second.

I really want that asus mini-DTX motherboard, but no way I'd spend $400+ on it when you can get an itx for half that. It just seems pretty neat, but not double the cost neat
 

R1X

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I took delivery of a Tomahawk today for an upcoming X5900 build. I am in two minds about returning it for the Unify. Here, at the moment, I can get the Unify for £50 extra than the Tomahawk, the extra NVMe slot is nice, BIOS reset button and POST read out on the Unify.... but the praise for the VRM on the Thomahawk, and that it has better VRM than the Unify, has me thinking I should not worry. Benches do show it is cooler in operation than the Unify.

I plan on running all 4 DIMMs full with a total of 64GB 3600Mhz CAS 16.
 

Brackle

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I took delivery of a Tomahawk today for an upcoming X5900 build. I am in two minds about returning it for the Unify. Here, at the moment, I can get the Unify for £50 extra than the Tomahawk, the extra NVMe slot is nice, BIOS reset button and POST read out on the Unify.... but the praise for the VRM on the Thomahawk, and that it has better VRM than the Unify, has me thinking I should not worry. Benches do show it is cooler in operation than the Unify.

I plan on running all 4 DIMMs full with a total of 64GB 3600Mhz CAS 16.

I can tell you now that the Unify isn't all that worse in VRM cooling. I can also confirm that I can run 4x8GB memory at 3800mhz CL14 with no issues! Either way you cant go wrong.
 
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Dan_D

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I can tell you now that the Unify isn't all that worse in VRM cooling. I can also confirm that I can run 4x8GB memory at 3800mhz CL14 with no issues! Either way you cant go wrong.

The Unify is a good board. The Tomahawk is a newer design though. It's also basically an apology tour for MSI for shitty VRM's on earlier budget boards. So, that's why VRM's are the Tomahawk's claim to fame. If you already have a Unify, I think you are good to go. It's a nicer board overall.
 

crazycrave

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I have a 3700x and RX 5700 and have yet to move them over to the B550m Mortar as I didn't pick up that my Best Buy Evga 600 watt power supply only has one PCI Express connector when I bought it on sale for $ 44 ,, It's been a very stable system with it limited to RX 570 / RX 5500 XT usage ..
I let my first water cooled 3600 get away as it had the MSI RX 5700 Mech OC that I need for that power supply in it .. miss that card ! As I had a non flash and a flashed RX 5700 's
 
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R1X

n00b
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Oct 13, 2020
Messages
2
I can tell you now that the Unify isn't all that worse in VRM cooling. I can also confirm that I can run 4x8GB memory at 3800mhz CL14 with no issues! Either way you cant go wrong.

No, definitely not. It really does make it a more difficult choice for a new buyer when the Tomahawk and Unify are priced so close together, like they are in my country.
 

Chelica

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 8, 2003
Messages
2,363
I really want that asus mini-DTX motherboard, but no way I'd spend $400+ on it when you can get an itx for half that. It just seems pretty neat, but not double the cost neat
Amen to that. I can only go so far before common sense reels me back, ha
 

Ready4Dis

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
2,375
Yeah. Reading through the PCIE limits- it should do the job. Disable the WiFi, one small graphics card, one 10G card, and then maybe even two NVMe and 4 sata, or one big and 6 sata... I can make this work. Fascinating.

Edit. Never mind. The way MSI allocated the PCIE links is weird. If you use the second NVMe slot, you can't use ANY of the other PCIE ports - but you always get the 6 SATA ports. But they share PCIE bandwidth with the chipset and the second PCIE slot...

So, 10G network sharing with 6 sata drives over x4 for my use case, not... ideal. Can't use the second NVMe slot unless I have a cpu with built-in graphics (and I need a 3950 style CPU for this - 16c), so that's out...

x570 it is. I need the extra lanes. Or a system with a built-in 10G card. Oh well. Seemed like a way to save $30 and the headache of trying to catch an x570 in. That, or I just buy a Unify :p
It's not ANY of the PCIe slots, it's just the x4 slot (Which is the most useful of course, lol). Seems the same for the MSI MPG as well, so if you have anything that requires more than a x1 slot, you can't use both NVME's. I'm used to seeing reduction in SATA options if using second NVME, not a loss of a pcie slot, so this is good information to remember (and another reason B550's are inferior to X570's). That said my son has an MSI MPG B550 Gaming WiFi (which is why I wanted to check that one, thanks for pointing this out) but he is not using both nvme's (and probably never will). Well, good luck with your endeavors, seems you've got a bit of a requirement that may be difficult to nail down with the Tomahawk x570 in the US being all but MIA (although I've seen a few people that have gotten lucky finding them, so it is possible).
 

c3k

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
2,221
Just a datapoint. Check the sig: 3 different Gigabyte mobos for 2700x and 2 3700x's. Running ram at 3600MHz, 4 sticks, 64GB, on two of them. (Other is four sticks for 32GB.)

Rock solid. No, I have not overclocked them. (Yeah, I've gotten oft...don't rub it in.)

FWIW.

(Hey, Asus, you know why I don't buy any of your mobo's anymore? Yeah, you never let me turn off the case LED when the computer was sleeping. Asleep should be dark, not flashing. Maybe you've fixed that flaw. Whatever...)
 

c3k

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
2,221
Almost certainly it will. It's just a BIOS update that's required to support it. Many X570 boards have updates or planned updates for Ryzen 5000 series compatibility. These should be available on or before the Ryzen 5000 series launch. This is being handled better this time due to the fact that we aren't getting a new chipset. You won't have to wait the way X470 users do.



On the AMD side, overclocking generally doesn't net you more FPS. You trade the higher boost clocks of the one or two cores that can do it for a higher all core frequency. Even when you are doing per CCX overclocking, you will be limited by the weaker cores within the CCX and lose those higher boost clocks in single-threaded or lightly threaded applications like games. Overclocking benefits the multi-threaded workloads that the Ryzen series excels at. The only time that overclocking might benefit you is on the lower end of the stack where the boost clocks are lower and you can increase the all core clocks over what the CPU normally does. Basically, a 3600X or 3700X benefits from it in specific cases but the 3900X or 3950X do not benefit from overclocking in applications such as games.

As an example: The Ryzen 7 3700X has a boost clock of only 4.4GHz. That means only one or two cores are going to boost that high out of the eight. Your CPU should boost to around 4.0-4.1GHz all core. An increase to 4.3GHz all core through overclocking usually has some small benefit across most applications and even games. While the clocks would be lower in this scenario for single-threaded applications, they wouldn't ever fall below 4.3GHz and thus, you do see improvements in frame rates.

On the other hand, the Ryzen 9 3950X has a boost clock of 4.7GHz. An all core overclock that would match that would require liquid nitrogen. There is no getting around that. A standard all core overclock for one of those is around 4.2-4.3GHz. You loose 400-500MHz of boost clock by overclocking. Unlike in the above scenario, this is a significant amount of clock speed loss. This still helps you with multi-threaded workloads as your typical boost clock sits around 4.15GHz. An overclock to 4.2GHz or more would be helpful for those tasks while hurting single-threaded performance.

Of course, you are talking about the 5000 series, which brings up a lot of questions we can't answer yet. The fact is, we don't know how they overclock, what their boost clock behavior really is beyond the specs we've been given etc. However, I seriously doubt that the 5000 series will be a monster overclocker. The Ryzen series hasn't been since day one. They improve the clocks at a very incremental rate with each generation. There is a reason why each 3950X or 3900X only has one or two cores that can hit 4.6-4.7GHz. The rest can hit 4.3-4.4GHz only under the best circumstances and manual tuning.

On the subject of VRM's, they are important. A good VRM implementation provides stability. You get a cooler running motherboard by having a robust VRM. More phases allows the load to be spread out across more components and run them at less capacity. Boost clocks are also influences by factors such as the VRM's. I'm not saying you need some 16 phase monster, but the bargain bin designs like MSI's X570-A Pro can't exactly handle the 3950X with room to spare. It won't handle a 5950X any better.

Dan_D ,

I would pay money, real money*, if you (or someone you know ;) ) could come up with a matrix so I could see what tier the various motherboards are. I mean, seriously, WTF is better, a TUF or a ROG? The mobo marketers need to be stomped. How the hell do I know which board is better than another? All I can do is open my wallet, count the bills, and then see what board I can afford. Or, is that their purpose? To confuse me so I just throw money at them to make them go away?

I am left to spend days looking at images of the boards, digging up reviews, trying to find VRM information, capacitor country of origin, etc., etc.

You seem to know a thing or two about this stuff... For the love of God, is a "Master" better than a "Prime"?

You get my point...

Thanks,
Ken

*The term "real money" is used in a non-literal sense. Limitations apply. Shipping and Handling fees may make you owe ME money. Face value is less than 1/20 of a cent. Etc.
 
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