500W Platinum FSP FlexATX PSU >1000w/Litre

Discussion in 'Small Form Factor Systems' started by Martynas, Mar 16, 2015.

  1. Martynas

    Martynas n00bie

    Messages:
    4
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2015
    FSP is now listing the FSP500-50FSPT, a 500W, 80+ Platinum FlexATX PSU on their website!

    That thing has a higher power to volume ratio (>1000W per Liter) and is more efficient than the ST45SF-G, ST60SF-G and the SX500-LG PSUs!

    Breakdown of the features:

    • Dimensions: 150x81.5x40.5mm
    • Volume: 0.495L (ST45: 0.794)
    • Efficiency: rated 80+ Platinum, no further details available yet
    • Rails: +3.3V: 15A, +5V: 18A, +12V: 2x24A (40A max combined load on +12V)

    The minimum order quantity is 300 units.

    Specs can be found here:
    Drawing (please ignore connectors)
    Documentation

    We will be able to choose the connectors and cable lengths ourselves, so ignore those in the drawing.
    If there is enough interest we will be looking to try and crowdfund this, you can also let FSP or sparkle power know that you want this PSU by emailing them.
    Original thread was created by iFreilicht on overclock.net

    FSP just approved for 24pin + 8pin EPS + 2x 6+2pin PCIE config so there should be no problem for all single gpu configs.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2015
  2. Hanakuso

    Hanakuso [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,417
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2011
    Does this fit any of the popular cases in this subforum like the Ncase or A4?

    Is FSP a reputable brand? I think i've heard Corsair or one of the major brands using them.
     
  3. rawrr

    rawrr Gawd

    Messages:
    546
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    Right now there isn't really any incentive for anyone to buy this. As far as I know no one is close to releasing a case that exclusively supports a FlexATX psu.

    FSP are very reliable though.
     
  4. SaperPL

    SaperPL [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,666
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    With those dimensions of a PSU there's a lot interesting possibilities but as rawrr said there's no incentive to buy those. I'd design a case only for something I can buy myself in local shops.
     
  5. Martynas

    Martynas n00bie

    Messages:
    4
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2015
    Sure ,but if we were thinking this way ages ago we would probably still be at ATX for factor and now look what SFX did for SFF builds. This can possibly be the next thing.
     
  6. Bieberfever

    Bieberfever [H]Lite

    Messages:
    78
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2014
    I'm the one communicating with FSP on this and if needed I could make an ATX or SFX to flex adapter if it would be the one thing killing interest. I have a small CNC milling machine in my garage.
     
  7. SaperPL

    SaperPL [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,666
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    Yeah, I get it, but there's this problem: SFX psu's were pushed by big companies making mediocre products but thanks to this we have those easily accessible on the market. Making a case for the standard that hardly ships anywhere is a bad business idea. And if you don't make money on it then noone follows and there's no progress.
     
  8. CybKnight

    CybKnight [H]Lite

    Messages:
    66
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    From someone that has owned several Shuttle boxes, I would not want this unless they found a alternate way of cooling it. The 40mm fan in PSU will most likely sound horrible.
     
  9. hooplish

    hooplish n00bie

    Messages:
    38
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2015
    I agree, FlexATX power supplies aren't known for their quietness.
     
  10. hoggy

    hoggy n00bie

    Messages:
    34
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2015
    Think I'm the only one developing cases solely around this form factor Seeing as everyone else is doing sfx.

    The trick is to go oversize with wattage and go for high efficiency As the best way to keep the fan quiet is to not let it spin. Platinum would be a good candidate for this so I'm in.
    What price range they hinting at?

    I've got samples of 400w and 300w gold flex psu's on order. Most manufacturers were approachable and very helpful except ironically fsp who didn't want to talk!
     
  11. Martynas

    Martynas n00bie

    Messages:
    4
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2015
    Last update from FSP was 90$ per unit if ordering 300. Thats with the cables we want and the case painted black.
     
  12. hooplish

    hooplish n00bie

    Messages:
    38
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2015
    If they manage to keep the noise in check at load I might look into it as well.
     
  13. hoggy

    hoggy n00bie

    Messages:
    34
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2015
    Fairly reasonable for Platinum. Golds at 400w with pcie are are around $75.
    On mobile at the moment so will check the datasheets when I get back.
    Any certs for Platinum, some do tend to drift out when lightly loaded which makes the Platinum thing a bit pointless.
    I assume this has smart fan control same as the other Sparkle / 3y / fsp group models?

    I've had some interesting finds over in China, with 1u flex psu's having an 80mm fan mounted ontop. This only takes them to 43mm high/wide and may be a serious contender to sfx in the future. Although those were really no name brands which I wouldn't trust without some serious testing.
    Trying to get other manufacturers to follow suit is more difficult.
     
  14. iFreilicht

    iFreilicht [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,348
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    Nope, you're not alone, I'm working on two as well, but only one is going to see the light of day soon, but I think those cases will have to be sold with the PSU included.
    I also used FlexATX to put a 970 inside a LianLi PC-Q12, but I replaced the fan with an 80mm one so I can't talk about noise really.

    I think having the PSU both overpowered and rated platinum will really help noise with builds that draw like 300W maximum.

    @Peoplesayingthere'snoreasontobuy:

    There actually is. Someone on OCN said he would love to install one in his Jonsbo V3+ because it would highly increase the compatibility with larger CPU coolers.
    In the M1, you would have a lot more space for the rad in the side, you could even make a build with two 240mm rads where the res is inside the case!

    So if Bieberfever can make adapter brackets for SFX and ATX, there would be quite a few uses for this.
     
  15. hoggy

    hoggy n00bie

    Messages:
    34
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2015
    Looks promising from the specs, just noticed fsp do a 270w fanless 1u so I would hope that the theory of operation has carried over and this one doesn't spool it's fan until then.
     
  16. Zap

    Zap [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,425
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    The original Silverstone 300W and 450W SFX PSUs were made by FSP. Do those ring a bell?
     
  17. yolostrats

    yolostrats [H]Lite

    Messages:
    93
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2014
    I would be extremely interested in buying one or two. However i'm located in Australia which can make a kickstarter not worth it due to shipping, and then warranty (how would that be handled?).

    I also need some proof or third party testing to show that it isn't too loud under load, say 350W. Being more efficient, it should be slightly quieter but this is then offset again by the small fan, so who knows.

    Exactly my thoughts. My main design will use a 970. It's a shame the 600W SFX has fan issues because in theory, it would be perfect (drawing around 50% under load).


    Sent them a small email about my interest and pointing out how non of the SFX PSUs are good enough (for me).

    I reckon they could do quite well if a SFX and ATX bracket is shipped with it or sold separately. It can have a L shaped bend to support the PSU from below, rather than being secured only from the back side (as is the case with SFX brackets).
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
  18. iFreilicht

    iFreilicht [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,348
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    Thank you for your support! I hope your mail reaches the same guy that talks with bieberfever about this, else he could be very confused :D

    About warranty we aren't too sure. I personally think we'd need a contractor that deals with the shipping, so when the units actually break during transportation, you can at least get a refund. Warranty is a critical point, because FSP only manufactures their PSUs on demand. If we just get one for every person that wanted one, we couldn't offer any warranty at all. We'd probably need to order a few more, but that would of course increase the price.

    The fan is a very critical point: According to FSP, the fan runs at 35.6dB under 50% load and 55dB at >100% load, which is a real bummer. We're looking into the possibility of letting FSP install a different fan, there seem to be a few options out there.
    On OCN we also talked about the option of having an alternative top for the enclosure which would be perforated to allow mounting of a 80mm case fan on the PSU, which would lower temperatures significantly. I don't think we can deal with the work making this a default option would induce, but offering it as an option for modders wouldn't be a problem, I feel.
     
  19. hooplish

    hooplish n00bie

    Messages:
    38
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2015
    I think having a perforated top would be the best bet of making this workable, as all you have to do is screw on a fan to lower the temps and keep noise down. And it probably won't be to much of a hassle for the manufacturers as all they have to do is change the top to a perforated one.
     
  20. Martynas

    Martynas n00bie

    Messages:
    4
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2015
    Sure ,but if the top was perforated if would drastically degrade the performance without the extra fan on top. The PSU would still have to be completely usable out of the box and for those who would want to put extra fans to improve airflow and reduce noise.. well dremel is your best friend.
     
  21. Bieberfever

    Bieberfever [H]Lite

    Messages:
    78
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2014
    I've been playing with the idea of fabricating a replacement lid for Flex ATX PSUs that would allow mounting of an 80 x 10mm fan blowing down onto the heatsinks, but my concern is the possible liabilities in providing something like this publicly. Can anyone intelligently comment on whether this would be an issue I'd need to worry about. The alternative solution would be to anonymously upload it to Thingiverse for people to make themselves.
     
  22. backfeed

    backfeed Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    475
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2010
    Can't say for sure, but I can't see how this could be considered illegal in any way, since it would be the responsibility of the end user to actually install the mod, voiding the warranty.

    This psu is definitely interesting, but noise is the sole reason I'm staying away from the flex format, and even a 80x10mm fan would be too loud for me. :)
     
  23. yolostrats

    yolostrats [H]Lite

    Messages:
    93
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2014
    Does this have the small fan at the back due to not enough space to mount on the top? In other designs, an 80mm fan fits.

    What I would do is use the same layout, even if the fan rises above the chasis. Seasonic example:

    http://www.seasonic.ru/products/items/48

    In my design I would stick a small fan where the exhaust and power connector is and use a IEC extender cable to relocate the power port on the case (like in the ncase and a few other ITX cases).

    The extra 40mm (or larger) fan on the outside will be controlled to not be too loud and serve to assist the main 80mm fan.
     
  24. Bieberfever

    Bieberfever [H]Lite

    Messages:
    78
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2014
    That power supply is actually called a TFX and is a full 25mm higher to accommodate an 80x25mm fan. I think something along the same lines,but with an 80 x 10mm fan and in possibe a bit of a reduction by moving the fan very close to the components could probably reduce height. A TFX is 65mm tall while a Flex ATX is 40mm tall.
     
  25. iFreilicht

    iFreilicht [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,348
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    Yes that's one of the main issues.

    Yup that seems about right to me. As long as you explicitly tell the user that he uses this on his own risk and that even opening the PSU up will void his warranty, you should be absolutely fine. Maybe also include a notice to only use the replacement top if you are a trained professional and know exactly what you're doing, something along those lines.

    Well if we get the replacement top thing running you could also install an ultra-silent 80x25 fan, that would be entirely up to you.

    I'm not sure if I understand you correctly, are you asking why it has a 40mm fan? Because that's what every FlexATX and 1U PSU has since ever. Mainly because these formfactors where designed for servers that are only about 45mm high and intake from the front and exhaust through the back. Having a fan on top wouldn't make any sense in that context.

    Yeah that's pretty much the idea of the replacement enclosure, just backwards. Having an external 80mm fan support the internal 40mm one.
     
  26. hoggy

    hoggy n00bie

    Messages:
    34
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2015
    My only worry with the user changeable lid would be the grounding arrangements. from personal experience if your unlucky enough to have a model which you need to undo the ground to take the lid off and forget to put it back on, you (or whatever it touches) becomes the ground path.

    You really would have to write some good disclaimers.

    Fsp would be better doing the same as seasonic and force it fanless upto a point.
     
  27. iFreilicht

    iFreilicht [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,348
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    The FlexATX PSU I have is from FSP and that has its ground attached to the case via an additional screw which is not used to attach the top lid. I think they use this layout and this exact enclosure for all 150mm FlexATX PSUs and just change the internals, so we should be fine there.

    Not sure whether fanless would work so well even in idle.
     
  28. Screes

    Screes Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    367
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2013
    Great efficiency, same problem as all flex atx psu's. Loud 40mm fans.
     
  29. niksus

    niksus n00bie

    Messages:
    42
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2013
    A bit offtopic, sorry, but where can we follow your designs?
     
  30. iFreilicht

    iFreilicht [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,348
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    One can be seen here: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1849088, you'll have to click the link to the full album to see the pictures of the version with a FlexATX PSU, though. My idea was to use the slim 80mm fan technique we discussed to achieve a silent, yet small and powerful base for a build.
    I'm currently on hold with this because there are so many things I want to do with this, it's simply too much for a first project.

    My second design is limited to mITX GPUs, and I don't have a thread for it yet, I'm gonna make one after finishing my repetition exams. The target there will be to make the case highly mobile, so it will stay below 60mm thickness and have a form factor that allows it to easily fit into messenger bags, side bags and backpacks alike.
     
  31. iFreilicht

    iFreilicht [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,348
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    Little bit of an update:

    For everyone who doesn't know, I took over the organisation of this whole thing as Bieber/lampshade doesn't get a lot of time on his hands.
    This means that I am talking to a different distributor now, but other than that, nothing really changes.

    Right now, these are the changes we want to get:

    Fan:

    San Ace 109P0412H3013

    This was the best we could find, it has the required CFM for the PSU and is a lot more silent according to the specs. It's unclear yet whether FSP will be willing to replace the stock fan for our unit, though.

    Connectors:

    • ATX 24pin
    • Auxiliary CPU 4+4pin
    • 2 * Auxiliary GPU 6+2pin
    • (2 *)2 * SATA Power

    These aren't fixed yet, we don't know whether a fan swap would be performed by FSP or what cable lengths we will go for.
    There also is a poll on OCN about the inclusion of IDE/floppy power connectors, but the results seem pretty clear. :D

    A lot of people have asked for a list to sign in to or something like that, and that would be an important way of assessing the interest there is on this PSU.

    I have been talking to the mods of OCN, and we are not allowed to coordinate a group buy over there, so we'll move that part of the discussion here for now. Of course, this thread can be used for questions and discussion about technical details as well, but be aware of the different rules when you post. ;)

    So we will discuss this here now:

    How should such a list be managed in your opinion? Is a google docs sheet safe enough? Should I just have a private list that you can put yourself in by messaging me? Any different ideas?

    I don't want to start a crowdfunding campaign or anything of the sorts until every detail about our version of the PSU is known.
     
  32. DontPeek

    DontPeek [H]Lite

    Messages:
    67
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2014
    I would love to have an idea of what the fan curve is like. Being platinum I would hope that it wouldn't take as much to keep it cool.
     
  33. iFreilicht

    iFreilicht [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,348
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    According to FSP, you need a fan that pushes 11.5CFM.

    In the PDF I linked, press Ctrl+F and search for "109P0412H3013", that way you'll find the fan curve of the fan we intend to put into this thing.

    I don't know about the stock one, though. There may have been someone who found out what fan was used in there previously, but I don't remember anymore.
     
  34. iFreilicht

    iFreilicht [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,348
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    So I also crossposted this to SFN, we are officially allowed to talk about practically everything relevant to the PSU and the planned group buy there, but feel free to join the discussion here, I'll read everything anyway :D
    I think you still have to be invited to join that forum, so if you want to head over there, shoot me a PM and I'll help you out.
     
  35. Aibohphobia

    Aibohphobia [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,340
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Invites aren't required to register.
     
  36. nekrosoft13

    nekrosoft13 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,435
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    FSP is very good company, not very known, but they make high quality products and they also produce PSU for other companies.
     
  37. iFreilicht

    iFreilicht [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,348
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    That's right, I haven't been there in a while :)

    Well they're not well known in the consumer market, but oh boy they are a big name with servers and OEMs.
     
  38. iFreilicht

    iFreilicht [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,348
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    Little big update:

    I've been talking to a rep from Sliger (they are an official FSP distributor and everything they do involves SFF of some kind) and he's nothing but awesome!

    First of, he already got FSP to send a sample to him with the stock configuration and ordered a sample fan of the San Ace 109P0412H3013 that we would want in the PSU. He is planning to do the cable mods and fan swap on this unit in-house for testing.
    Also, he said that Sliger could make the adapter plates for us, they would be able to do various finishes and materials and even different combinations of mounting positions, maybe even space for HDD mounting and such, which would be pretty cool.

    Everything below was not said by the rep, these are just my personal thoughts:

    This is freaking amazing! Sliger and this rep in particular have shown to be very enthusiastic about SFF, this is the partner we needed in this holy war! :p I think, if we are lucky, we won't even have to do any sort of crowdfunding on our own, Sliger could just add this PSU to their product catalogue, which would be pretty amazing. :D Maybe a first run would still be crowdfunded to help dampen the initial investment risk, but it wouldn't have to require 300 Units to be sold, just 150 or something like that.
     
  39. yolostrats

    yolostrats [H]Lite

    Messages:
    93
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2014
    Ermahgerd. Stuff happening!

    The chances of this making it to retail in Australia would be.. slim.
     
  40. iFreilicht

    iFreilicht [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,348
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    Probably, but at least you'd be able to import it, which isn't possible at the moment either. ;)