5.1 PC Gaming, what type of components are needed?

[Inacurate]

OK, so audio is not my strong point in computers, but at a high level...what's needed in terms of components for positional audio in gaming (when the game supports it)?

I'm not specifically looking for brand recommendations, but just the type of components needed...I don't mind researching at that point, but there are so many opinions on what "good audio" is I quickly get lost when I start looking into this.

I prefer wired, but if wireless options gave me better positional audio I'm game. Not worried about price currently, need to know more first.

I have an old pair of Razer 7.1 Tiamats powered by an HT Omega Fenix, they just don't seem to do it, mostly in Fortnite.
If someone confirms I could expect acceptable positional audio, I could troubleshoot from there. I just don't know. I had the HT Omega Striker and it was absolutely amazing. Never used it in Fortnite though, only CS, TF2, other random MP games. PCI only, sadly.

Dunno, but looking to expand my knowledge for sure to see if my expectations (from years of playing CS) are too much, if my hardware is lacking, maybe I have driver issues, maybe my hearing is not where it use to be...lol.

Eyes wide open.

 

[Brian_B]

I thought most headphones faked surround sound.

I know the Tiamat has discrete drivers in the cup but I don’t know. Anyone I’ve trusted that I’ve heard talk about surround sound say that headphones pale to actual speakers.

I don’t have any personal point of reference with respect to headphones, but it appears your sound card should support surround adequately.

The other question - do you have enough power going to your cans? Felix has replaceable op amps, and from what I’ve read the stock ones suck unless your just using it to feed into another amp. I don’t know how many various analog inputs the Tiamat has, but an amp for each may go a long way.

 

[Inacurate]

Thanks for your input!

Speakers are great for single player games and if I don't stream, but not really suitable for streaming in my opinion. It's a minor factor that I also have to account for.

But yes, I agree with that sentiment!
I have a surround system just sitting in a box, somewhere. Don't even remember what or if it would even work at this point. I should find out and test it.

So when you say 'an amp for each' do you mean replacing the amps on the board? I recall that being possible, just confirming you mean that and not an external solution.

 

[illram]

Headphone virtual surround? There are a few options:

1. Dolby Atmos for headphones which is a Windows app and costs $10. Compatibility is hit or miss. Some games like Overwatch have it out of the box. I've tried it on Xbox and it's just OK
2. Windows Sonic is basically free Atmos and is supposed to be compatible with any Atmos source. Again hit or miss as far as if the game supports it. I have not found either of these super effective as a complete set it and forget it solution because Windows hides the settings from you. I prefer solutions that simulate speakers in Windows so I am sure that whatever I am doing is using Windows default (i.e. the speaker settings I want).
3. Internal sound cards offering their own proprietary virtual surround sound (VSS). Like what you have already (does that card offer headphone surround?). I'm not familiar with any of these as I have not built anything bigger than an ITX system in 10 years.
4. External sound cards like the Sennheiser GSX1000, or the Creative E5 or X7. The Sennheiser gets pretty high reviews for its VSS. It's headphone amp is not powerful but good enough for most affordable headphones. I have an E5 and an X7, both are good. The E5 does 7.1, X7 does 5.1 but can support external speakers and has a better amp.
5. All in one VSS headsets like the Mobius or cheaper "gamer" headsets that basically all use Dolby Headphone. I don't recommend these except the Mobius. Headphones with multiple drivers are the worst of this bracket as they use multiple small drivers which all deliver worse sound. The way HRTF works, you don't need that. In my opinion they are taking advantage of the fact that most people don't really know virtual surround works, i.e. HRTF. You can mix great binaural sound and deliver it via stereo headphones, no need for multiple drivers surrounding your ears.
6. More niche software only solutions like Waves Nx or Out of Your Head. Waves Nx let's you also buy an optional head tracker. It's the same tech used in the Mobius.
7. HeSuVi is a free driver that some guy made that basically uses EqualizerAPO to simulate all of the above available VSS software solutions. It's hit or miss, apparently its Sennheiser reproduction is not good but its others are. I'd consider trying it out if this is new to you just to get a taste of whether you can really tell a difference among all of these solutions, and maybe even find one you prefer. A lot of this is subjective since all of this is based on a generic simulation of the human ear. If you really go down the rabbit hole there are solutions involving personalized measurements of your ears and how it takes in sound, e.g. the Smyth A8 and unreleased A16, or the unreleased Creative Super X-Fi. People who have demoed the A16 for instance basically could not tell the difference between the headphones and the surround speakers, when using their personal ear measurements.

My preference is separating the VSS from the headphone, so I can use any headphone and even amp that I want. I.e., buy either a dedicated piece of hardware like the GSX1000 or E5, or something like Waves straight out of whatever DAC/AMP solution you want.

 

[djoye]

What surround system do you have boxed?

My recommendation for an inexpensive speaker setup:
An inexpensive speaker package: https://www.parts-express.com/t652-...und-speaker-system-with-12-subwoofer--300-699
An AV receiver that can connect to HDMI and output audio without a monitor attached: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...on+avr-3806.TRS0&_nkw=denon+avr-3806&_sacat=0
Parts Express also has sub-$300 Yamaha receivers, but not sure if the HDMI audio works without a display attached.

 

[DoubleTap]

What surround system do you have boxed?

My recommendation for an inexpensive speaker setup:
An inexpensive speaker package: https://www.parts-express.com/t652-...und-speaker-system-with-12-subwoofer--300-699
An AV receiver that can connect to HDMI and output audio without a monitor attached: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...on+avr-3806.TRS0&_nkw=denon+avr-3806&_sacat=0
Parts Express also has sub-$300 Yamaha receivers, but not sure if the HDMI audio works without a display attached.

PC + Receiver is a major hassle without some sort of EDID emulation in hardware or software.

 

[Inacurate]

Since I've been digging and reading, thought it important to say that my headphones have individual drivers for each channel, all with their own 3.5mm plug and my Fenix sound card supports "8 channel (7.1 surround) Output through 4 sets of 3.5mm (1/8") Stereo Front R/L, Rear R/L, Center/Sub and Side R/L"

Seems like that would be sufficient, yes??

Maybe it IS a driver/Windows 10 issue, or simply not as good as their previous model, or maybe it's just my hearing?

 

[Brian_B]

Thanks for your input!

So when you say 'an amp for each' do you mean replacing the amps on the board? I recall that being possible, just confirming you mean that and not an external solution.

My understanding - you probably have something like 3 or 4 3.5mm headphone jacks that plug from your headphones to your sound card. Each of those can carry 2 signals: L/R front, L/R rear, L/R presence, and Center/Sub — if I had to guess, for a 7.1 setup.

You can either:

Replace the op amps on your card with something higher quality. This has the effect of beefing up the power delivery from your card so that an amp is not necessary. You would need to research options on this.

Or

Buy a headphone amp, you need to match up the same number of channels (7.1 = 8 channels, so four stereo amps or two quad channel amps, for example). Along with the appropriate patch cables (sometimes they use 1/4” jacks instead of 3.5mm). These amps run anywhere from about $30 per stereo amp all the way up to OMGWTF audiophile grade.

Op amp is probably your cheaper option, headphone amp is universal and works with any setup you get in the future (assuming you stick with analog audio and not a DAC)

 

[Inacurate]

Headphone virtual surround? There are a few options:

3. Internal sound cards offering their own proprietary virtual surround sound (VSS). Like what you have already (does that card offer headphone surround?). I'm not familiar with any of these as I have not built anything bigger than an ITX system in 10 years.

4. External sound cards like the Sennheiser GSX1000, or the Creative E5 or X7. The Sennheiser gets pretty high reviews for its VSS. It's headphone amp is not powerful but good enough for most affordable headphones. I have an E5 and an X7, both are good. The E5 does 7.1, X7 does 5.1 but can support external speakers and has a better amp.

5. All in one VSS headsets like the Mobius or cheaper "gamer" headsets that basically all use Dolby Headphone. I don't recommend these except the Mobius. Headphones with multiple drivers are the worst of this bracket as they use multiple small drivers which all deliver worse sound. The way HRTF works, you don't need that. In my opinion they are taking advantage of the fact that most people don't really know virtual surround works, i.e. HRTF. You can mix great binaural sound and deliver it via stereo headphones, no need for multiple drivers surrounding your ears.

7. HeSuVi is a free driver that some guy made that basically uses EqualizerAPO to simulate all of the above available VSS software solutions. It's hit or miss, apparently its Sennheiser reproduction is not good but its others are. I'd consider trying it out if this is new to you just to get a taste of whether you can really tell a difference among all of these solutions, and maybe even find one you prefer.


My preference is separating the VSS from the headphone, so I can use any headphone and even amp that I want. I.e., buy either a dedicated piece of hardware like the GSX1000 or E5, or something like Waves straight out of whatever DAC/AMP solution you want.

My card supports individual channels, that combined are surround sound, so no virtual aspect to it is my understanding based on listed features.

Likewise, my headphones have individual drivers for each channel, so surround sound should be possible without having to be virtualized.

So, assuming both components are working as intended, I would expect to have surround sound.

That's what I've always run, thinking virtual surround is inferior.
From what you're saying, that is not always the case?

I don't know the definition of HRTF past what I just googled, but I know it's a supported audio option in CSGO, and it did not even make barely acceptable in my opinion. I gave it an honest chance. Maybe my setup? Maybe their implementation?

I looked at the GSX1000, which only has a single 3.5mm port, I assume if I plugged my headphones into that using the front channel plug, what I hear would not compare to a pair with a better performing single driver in each ear?
I would be better served with a "dumb" pair, that had better drivers as you say. That makes sense in some regard. Hmmmm.

Mobius looks very interesting.
Would be awesome to test those out before making a decision, but another hmmmm.

I will check out HeSuVi, thank you.

 

[illram]

My card supports individual channels, that combined are surround sound, so no virtual aspect to it is my understanding based on listed features.

Likewise, my headphones have individual drivers for each channel, so surround sound should be possible without having to be virtualized.

So, assuming both components are working as intended, I would expect to have surround sound.

That's what I've always run, thinking virtual surround is inferior.
From what you're saying, that is not always the case?

I don't know the definition of HRTF past what I just googled, but I know it's a supported audio option in CSGO, and it did not even make barely acceptable in my opinion. I gave it an honest chance. Maybe my setup? Maybe their implementation?

I looked at the GSX1000, which only has a single 3.5mm port, I assume if I plugged my headphones into that using the front channel plug, what I hear would not compare to a pair with a better performing single driver in each ear?
I would be better served with a "dumb" pair, that had better drivers as you say. That makes sense in some regard. Hmmmm.

Mobius looks very interesting.
Would be awesome to test those out before making a decision, but another hmmmm.

I will check out HeSuVi, thank you.

Test out HeSuVi and Waves Nx is also free to try. Same with out of your head.

Razer also has a free one but it sucks.

Yes, virtual surround out of two good headphone drivers, if done well, is better than multiple drivers in a headphone. So for example the GSX1000 with, say, a HD598 or something like that would probably sound better than your current cans. But everyone's ear is different.

 

[djoye]

PC + Receiver is a major hassle without some sort of EDID emulation in hardware or software.

The Denon AVR-3806 acts as a display even without a monitor connected, so HDMI audio is active through it. You have a phantom display off to the side (I just set it to 800×600), which kinda sucks, but I use Dual Monitor Tools to lock my mouse to my primary screen. I'm interested in what other AV receivers do this, my older Onkyo receivers sure don't.

 

[DoubleTap]

The Denon AVR-3806 acts as a display even without a monitor connected, so HDMI audio is active through it. You have a phantom display off to the side (I just set it to 800×600), which kinda sucks, but I use Dual Monitor Tools to lock my mouse to my primary screen. I'm interested in what other AV receivers do this, my older Onkyo receivers sure don't.

The issue is that with most receivers, if you turn them off or change inputs, your PC loses the connection and you have to re-setup the sound device when you reconnect.

Maybe you leave the receiver on all the time and never use any other source like a phone, chrome case, console, etc but it's still one accidental button push away from an audio do over.

 

[djoye]

The issue is that with most receivers, if you turn them off or change inputs, your PC loses the connection and you have to re-setup the sound device when you reconnect.

Maybe you leave the receiver on all the time and never use any other source like a phone, chrome case, console, etc but it's still one accidental button push away from an audio do over.

I don't know to what extent it loses connection, but if I switch to FM radio or scroll through the other inputs or even disconnect and reconnect the HDMI, Windows seems to remember everything about the receiver when reconnected. It might forget some settings if the GPU driver is updated, but I just go in and set the speaker mode and audio quality at most.

 

[DoubleTap]

I don't know to what extent it loses connection, but if I switch to FM radio or scroll through the other inputs or even disconnect and reconnect the HDMI, Windows seems to remember everything about the receiver when reconnected. It might forget some settings if the GPU driver is updated, but I just go in and set the speaker mode and audio quality at most.

I bought a hardware emulator years ago because I had so many issues with SLI, NV Surround and all my monitors trying to take over as sound devices.

If you don't need one,more power to ya.