I know there are cards that can take EAX and encode it and send it through a digital connection, but AFAIK these cards can't turn EAX into 5.1 in vista like the creative cards can, but the x-fi's can't encode through digital. Is a sound card that will let me get surround sound from my games in vista to my speakers using an optical connection?
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5.1 EAX through digital + vista?
- Thread starter diehard
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This seems like a strange reply.
Games are "coded" in DirectSound and/or EAX (prior to Vista anyways) and the hardware renders that with the desired effects and spatial orientation into 2.0, 2.1, 4.1, 5.1, 7.1, whatever.
The Asus Xonars have an EAX compatibility layer and can encode DD and DTS on-the-fly (live) to optical or coax. Yes, this includes games. The Auzentech Prelude 7.1 did DD and DTS was "coming soon" in the reviews I read. The Auzentech is based around the X-Fi ASIC.
Did the dolby add-on finally work? Wasn't sure. Wouldn't a receiver do the same thing as a sound card in Vista?
Yeah, DTS works for me too (on the Prelude).
Point was, that previously sound cards could only output 5.1 via analogue. The only way to get DIGITAL surround out of a PC previously was by watching a movie or another dolby digital source.
I've used digital in Team Fortress 2 and got surround sound...so how is this explained?
Sound cards and receivers serve completely different functions, although there are instances of overlap. Vista hasn't changed that, only
To the OP: Moofasa has it right, both the Titanium and Prelude have DDL encoding, allowing you get true EAX support over 5.1 via an optical connection, assuming you've got a DDL decoder in your receiver.
So that you need an EAX sound card to create the DDL and a receiver for digital surround PC games correct?
Nenu
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The Prelude can send all 5.1 sound via digital.
As it also uses the X-Fi processor, it fully supports EAX processing in hardware.
As it also uses the X-Fi processor, it fully supports EAX processing in hardware.
In Vista? I thought hardware was not supported?
You're right, but that has nothing to do with the game coding. That has to do with audio card chipset capabilities and/or vendor crippling. Some vendors and cards have the capability now, with the same "coding" in the games.
astrallite
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Meh toslink is pretty bandwidth starved, and with dolby digital live there's so much compression; we need an hdmi sound card with linear pcm.
Like the Xonar HDAV?
ALchemy, where have you been for the past year?
In addition to ALchemy, OpenAL allows hardware acceleration of sound on Vista; maybe half of current games being released (maybe a bit less?) use OpenAL now. The rest use different software rendering engines that cannot be hardware accelerated, no matter the operating system (similar to how older games occasionally lacked a graphics hardware acceleration mode.)
ALchemy allows DirectSound3D games to be hardware accelerated on Vista (by adding a single .dll to each game that changes the DirectSound3D calls to OpenAL.) It works pretty well.
EAX is just a set of extensions to either of these APIs that give additional effects, and is completely usable under Vista.
Vista removed the hardware abstraction layer for DirectSound3D, but it still allows third party APIs direct access to hardware.
ALchemy allows DirectSound3D games to be hardware accelerated on Vista (by adding a single .dll to each game that changes the DirectSound3D calls to OpenAL.) It works pretty well.
EAX is just a set of extensions to either of these APIs that give additional effects, and is completely usable under Vista.
Vista removed the hardware abstraction layer for DirectSound3D, but it still allows third party APIs direct access to hardware.
If you wanted to use a digital connection but still get 5.1 sound from games AND have access to real EAX capabilities you'd need a sound card that has the X-Fi chip, DDL or DTS, and digital out. The sound card would process the audio instructions, including the EAX extensions, and then encode it all into DDL or DTS so that it will fit onto the limited bandwidth provided by digital.
And then you'd need a receiver with the correct decoder to take that digital signal and decode into your 5.1 channels of sounds. (DTS can do up to 7.1, but I'm not sure there is a current X-Fi card that can do DTS - Prelude is supposed to get this at some point.)
The only real advantage to doing the additional encoding/decoding is to avoid doing the digital to analog conversion inside your computer, and to take advantage of higher quality DACs if you have a really good set in your receiver. These are extremely situtational; with my current computer, sound card, and Z-5500s I can't tell a difference between optical out with DDL or just analog out.
I use analog out so I can continue to use the master windows volume controls.
Another consideration is that DDL is a software encoding scheme, so for those trying to eke out every erg of CPU power you may want to avoid it. The amount of CPU % used by DDL is extremely minor, though, and my very basic testing didn't show any real difference in frame rates for games.
This is supposedly not quite true. As I wrote in this or a similar thread, supposedly the ASUS software layer does a great job of EAX5.0 without an X-Fi ASIC.
Hmph. Maybe we should just ask if anyone is using one in the PC gaming forum, instead of just relying on reviews.
It sounds like the next-best thing, the Auzentech, is only EAX2.0. How stunning would that be?
I'm certainly not buying a Creative card...
It sounds like the next-best thing, the Auzentech, is only EAX2.0. How stunning would that be?
I'm certainly not buying a Creative card...
Nenu
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lol.
The Auzentech Prelude uses the same X-Fi processor as the Creative X-Fi series.
It has full EAX support in hardware as well as the best analogue quality and full 5.1 via digital, the best of all worlds.
The cards limited to EAX 2.0 implement it in software.
Yeah I know, but at least I won't buy the whole card from Creative. That's another thing I liked about the Xonar - no Creative parts at all.
Back on topic - I know I read somewhere about the Prelude only offering EAX2.0 despite having an X-Fi. Maybe that was a Vista-ism with the card? I'll try to find the reference which led me to believe that.
That was on one game they mentioned that.
Offer up proof to the contrary then. If it doesn't function at all in one game, I'm doubting it functions at all in any game.
That is wrong. It supports everything a normal X-Fi supports.
Nenu
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Not true.
"The Auzen X-Fi Prelude 7.1 soundcard fully supports EAX 5.0"
If Auzentech made a great PCI-E version I'd be all over it, but the PCI bus has some problems on certain motherboards with 4 GB or more of RAM. So I went the Titanium route, which is a very nice card.
Asus has done a great job in creating a competitor to Creative, but until they support actual EAX effects (which they can't do without licensing, I believe) they are limited to an emulation of any EAX above 2.0. That means you may be able to 'enable' these effects in-game, but you won't hear everything you would be hearing if you used an actual X-Fi processor.
So that is why I say the X-Fi chips give you real EAX capability; the Asus only gives you EAX emulation. I applaud their efforts and hope they improve, because it helps the sound market as a whole.
If Auzentech made a great PCI-E version I'd be all over it, but the PCI bus has some problems on certain motherboards with 4 GB or more of RAM. So I went the Titanium route, which is a very nice card.
Asus has done a great job in creating a competitor to Creative, but until they support actual EAX effects (which they can't do without licensing, I believe) they are limited to an emulation of any EAX above 2.0. That means you may be able to 'enable' these effects in-game, but you won't hear everything you would be hearing if you used an actual X-Fi processor.
So that is why I say the X-Fi chips give you real EAX capability; the Asus only gives you EAX emulation. I applaud their efforts and hope they improve, because it helps the sound market as a whole.
I think a new PCIe offering is coming in Sept...
That's what I have been reading too. Hoping it's the truth because I would prefer a new PCIe prelude over the titanium. Though the only problem with Auzentech is the support! It's almost just as bad as creative with driver problems and their tech support I have experienced is not the best imo.
Moofasa~, the rest of the review is about other games and they hardly noticed any difference in most of them.
If Auzentech releases a new PCIe soundcard soon, I will probably get all three and test them for myself. Like I keep telling people, sound is relative and it's most likely going to be different for everyone. You have to try it and see for yourself imo.
OK, I haven't had a chance to look into the actual articles again, but I thought Bioshock was new enough that it had native OpenAL support when running under Vista and didn't make use of EAX. Once again, I could be mistaken.
Just checked one review. They rated the Xonar DX quite well for gaming, not at all what you've been quoting.
Check here for stuff on frame rates and here for listening test info.
They even asked Creative for titles that would highlight any lack of EAX support from the Xonar.
ourfpshero
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maximum pc puts the gs3d eax5 emulation as 'sort of works'
You are partially mistaken.
Bioshock does indeed use OpenAL. But it also uses EAX. You seem to be a little confused on what exactly EAX does.
OpenAL or DirectSound3D are APIs that tell your hardware where to position sounds.
EAX merely adds different effects. These effects can be quite good. It does this to either OpenAL or DirectSound3D.
For further reading the EAX wiki is very informative.