4K help needed -- looking at everything from Phillips to Samsung and BenQ

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silent-circuit

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EDIT:

Now the question is, keep the Sony 830C or swap it for a Samsung U6500 of similar size and pick up a PS4 with the difference in cash. Should I be looking at Vizio's M series despite their lack of 4:4:4 chroma support?

Also, am I better off with my current CPU/mobo/RAM and 980TI SLI, or should I return one of the 980TIs and get a new CPU/mobo/RAM that will give more PCIe lanes, etc?


Returned the Sharp for a much more expensive Sony 830C (from $500 to $800) and while the input lag is /better/ it's still not great. Very fast at 1080P, not so good at 4k. I suspect this is my GPU's fault, but won't be able to test that until Wednesday when my new GPUs are supposed to show up in the mail.

At this point I'm not certain if 4:4:4 chroma is worth the price and input lag premium it seems it will cost me. Vizio's M series seem to have better picture quality in "tv mode", lower or similar input lag, lower cost ($500 or so vs. $800 for the Sony, which would let me pick up a PS4 or something)... I'm just giving up 4:4:4 at 60Hz for PC use. Not sure if that's worth it or not.



After a lot of looking around I'm currently considering the following:


1. 40" Phillips (VA panel) for $800
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/philips...lack/6228127.p?id=1219659963680&skuId=6228127

2. 40" Samsung for $700-$1100 depending on the model, 6400/6500 or 7100
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung/4687001.p?id=1219637477260&skuId=4687001
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung...lack/3953157.p?id=1219609307257&skuId=3953157

3. 32" BenQ (IPS) for $950 (really more than I want to spend, especially for the size, but figured I should include a "proper" monitor in the list)
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/benq-32...lack/4058193.p?id=1219627854098&skuId=4058193

4. 40" Wasabi Mango AH-IPS (LG panel) Korean-built Ebay special for ~$700


All but the Samsungs have Displayport 1.2, so that's a tick against the Samsungs -- they're HDMI 2.0 only. I'll have a 980 or 980ti so I'll have HDMI 2.0, but I like flexibility. I also think they have higher input lag than the other options, and this worries me a lot. The Sharp 4K (LC-43UB30U 43") I got to play around with hoping I could "make it work" has terrible input lag even in "game" mode, to the point it's being returned for that reason alone -- I'm fairly happy with the color/contrast/picture, but I can't handle the delay.

The up-sides of the Samsungs are better contrast in "movie" mode (I don't own a TV so would use this panel for watching movies in addition to PC stuff) and local availability. The other displays I'd be waiting a week or more on shipping, and I'm impatient.

That said, I'll be getting new GPUs as well, and those I'll have to wait for, so a week isn't /that/ big a deal. The Samsungs also has the advantage of better over-all quality control than BenQ from what I've read, and the fact that I could go exchange easily if I did get one with bad light bleed or uniformity issues.

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what all is different between the Samsung 40" 6400/6500/7100 models to warrant the $300 or so price difference, and will be asking about that on AVSforum and elsewhere, but AVSforum scares the hell out of me so if someone here knows please just tell me. ;) My understanding from the threads here is you can get 4K@60Hz 4:4:4 Chroma from a Geforce 980/980ti with the 6500?

The Phillips gets fairly good reviews and isn't the /most/ expensive, and I did like the last VA panel I had for blacks, but ghosting and response time was a problem (granted this was years and years ago) and I'm really spoiled by the current Planar PX2611w 26" 1920x1200 IPS display in that respect -- almost no input lag and fairly good response time, very little ghosting.

Been reading for days. Still don't know what to do.



TL/DR:
Potential Samsung input lag / response time issues worry me, but I dunno. BenQ costs too much? Phillips... I dunno but it seems a good option. Wasabi Mango... would really rather buy something I can return easily if I hate it. Halp.
 
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Yeah tough boat to be in right now.

If best Buy has the BenQ BL3201PT/H.. I might have to go pick one up. That way if it's flicker is too much, I can return it.

Though, I would rather find a PWM-free gaming 32" monitor.
(Screen flicker makes me ill)



Samsung does have a new 32" display out, or coming that looks promising. So does that Asus. So I am on the fence.
 
sine wave said:
If best Buy has the BenQ BL3201PT/H.. I might have to go pick one up. That way if it's flicker is too much, I can return it.
Click to expand...

They have the BenQ 32" for sale online, either ship to you or ship to store, and it's returnable at the store, but no stores (in my area at least) have it in stock for store pickup. The Phillips I listed is a similar deal -- online direct from them, not in my local store, could return it there if I hated it.
 
silent-circuit said:
I'm still trying to figure out exactly what all is different between the Samsung 40" 6400/6500/7100 models to warrant the $300 or so price difference, and will be asking about that on AVSforum and elsewhere, but AVSforum scares the hell out of me so if someone here knows please just tell me. ;) My understanding from the threads here is you can get 4K@60Hz 4:4:4 Chroma from a Geforce 980/980ti with the 6500?
Click to expand...

rtings.com should be able to clear that up in their reviews of each set.
 
You really just gotta pick your poison unfortunately. Phillips/Samsung have PWM so for me personally that's out of the question entirely. The BenQ is just too expensive for what you're getting and the Korean monitors off ebay may potentially be a hassle to return. If I really had to choose though, I would just go for one of the Korean options off ebay. You can find some of them like the Crossover 404k or AMH A409U for well under $600.
 
Having owned 3 of those monitors, I would pick the Samsung(currently use the JS9000). I wouldn't worry about inputs as every GPU from this point forward will have HDMI 2.0. Plus the Samsung will have the best customer support and re sale value of all of them.
 
Tgrove said:
No one mentioned the 4k ips freesync Korean monitors
Click to expand...

That's the "Wasabi Mango 40" 4K" I wrote in my list above. It's arguably the best of the ones currently available, and "perfect pixel" tested versions (sadly still suggesting some degree of backlight bleed and in many cases actually allowing up to 3 dead pixels -- "perfect" my ass) run about $700 on eBay lately.
 
sine wave said:
That is their marketing, but in reality several test have revealed that the BenQ flickers if full brightness is not used. I can't have that..
Click to expand...

I may be wrong, but I'm think the flickering you're talking about has nothing to do with PWM but instead some kind of displayport issue that's related to firmware and only affects some users with certain GPUs.
 
I might be wrong then.
But I believe I read a review where that tested for being PWM free.. and that it was only for high brightness or levels.

Looking now into this.
If the Ben Q 3201 is 100% PWM free, I will have to pick it up for one of my stations.
 
That's just what I've read around on, you may want to get an actual owner of the monitor to confirm it for sure. But yes if you can afford one then definitely go for it as it seems to be well regarded as the best all around 4k monitor at 32 inches. Too bad it's too pricey for me :(
 
I understand.

Fortunately, I have been saving for 3+ years for my project, in updating my whole house, under 64bit OS. So, as a minimalist the biggest best monitor is all I can afford. So the cost of it to me, is nominal.

Looking.. is the reason I am at my computer. What I see is important.
My mouse is my weapon.


~~
 
Can anyone name a better (16:10'ish) 32" gaming monitor, like/similar too the Acer X34.

Other than this BenQ BL 3201 PH ..?
I think the Samsung 32" 4k supports G-sync and have better displays.. but their board have too much latency for gaming..? Is this correct.. ?
 
I just picked up a 40" Samsung JU6500 to use as my primary monitor for gaming.. it looks beautiful once calibrated. Input lag is not bad at all.. but I'm used to gaming on TV's. (~48ms PC mode, ~26ms game mode once you disable all the image processing and Smart Hub) Running 3840x2160 @ 60Hz 4:4:4. Currently have a GTX 980 SC, and it works for older games on high settings to maintain high enough FPS. Newer games, it struggles, and ultra settings -- not playable. Still, I can play BF4 with high settings at 4K with no anti-aliasing turned on, and it gets frame rates of around 35-50FPS. I'll probably upgrade to two 980ti's or something newer/better when Doom 4 is released.
 
sine wave said:
Can anyone name a better (16:10'ish) 32" gaming monitor, like/similar too the Acer X34.

Other than this BenQ BL 3201 PH ..?
I think the Samsung 32" 4k supports G-sync and have better displays.. but their board have too much latency for gaming..? Is this correct.. ?
Click to expand...

The BL3201PH is 100% PWM free; the flickering issue mentioned online refers to a Displayport issues which 4k monitors with Displayport can suffer from. Samsung sells one 32" with Free-Sync (U32E850R; more information and review links) which can be considered delay free while their joke of a professional monitor, the U32D970Q has high input lag, a grainy matte coating and overshoot ghosting. Skip the 40" Philips unless you want a monitor with lots of ghosting and PWM blur: BL3201PH versus Philips.
 
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Hey thanks NCX..

Would you say the BenQ is the best 32" 4k "gaming" monitor out, right now. Even though it does not have Free-Sync.

Is the Samsung U32E850R flicker free..?
 
w1retap said:
I just picked up a 40" Samsung JU6500 to use as my primary monitor for gaming.. it looks beautiful once calibrated. Input lag is not bad at all.. but I'm used to gaming on TV's. (~48ms PC mode, ~26ms game mode once you disable all the image processing and Smart Hub) Running 3840x2160 @ 60Hz 4:4:4. Currently have a GTX 980 SC, and it works for older games on high settings to maintain high enough FPS. Newer games, it struggles, and ultra settings -- not playable. Still, I can play BF4 with high settings at 4K with no anti-aliasing turned on, and it gets frame rates of around 35-50FPS. I'll probably upgrade to two 980ti's or something newer/better when Doom 4 is released.
Click to expand...

So can you get 4k@60Hz 4:4:4 in "game" mode from the 980, or do you have to switch to PC mode to get full 4:4:4 support and therefore double the input lag?
 
PC mode is 4:4:4.. game mode is 4:2:2. For games though, the 4:2:2 doesn't make a noticeable difference. Maybe if we had photo-realistic games, but those days are a pretty long way off.
 
Returned the Sharp for a much more expensive Sony (from $500 to $800) and while the input lag is /better/ it's still not great. Very fast at 1080P, not so good at 4k. I suspect this is my GPU's fault, but won't be able to test that until Wednesday when my new GPUs are supposed to show up in the mail.

At this point I'm not certain if 4:4:4 chroma is worth the price and input lag premium it seems it will cost me. Vizio's M series seem to have better picture quality in "tv mode", lower or similar input lag, lower cost ($500 or so vs. $800 for the Sony, which would let me pick up a PS4 or something)... I'm just giving up 4:4:4 at 60Hz for PC use. Not sure if that's worth it or not.
 
4:4:4 is very worth it for the PC if you're using it for anything beyond just strict gaming or TV watching. Right now in the 40"+ range, the Samsungs seem to be the best option because you can get the input lag down just by switching over to game mode. Without 4:4:4, when browsing certain web pages and trying to do things like 3D work, photoshop, etc.. you'll get misrepresented colors that aren't accurate and sometimes things won't appear right or even get lost in the background color. If hooking a TV up to the PC, IMO you need 4:4:4. Examples and theory of why explained here: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...official-4-4-4-chroma-subsampling-thread.html
 
Would I be better off with a single 980TI and a new CPU/mobo/RAM, or dual 980TIs and my current CPU/mobo/RAM? That's the position I'm in. I might also be able to pick up a PS4 (and Bloodborne -- I'm a huge From Software fan) if I switch from the Sony to a Samsung U6500, which as I understand is comparable to the 830C?
 
I would get a new CPU/mobo/RAM and then get another 980ti or newer cards all together when I could. I'm afraid your CPU could somehow be a bottleneck with two GTX980TIs.
 
silent-circuit said:
Would I be better off with a single 980TI and a new CPU/mobo/RAM, or dual 980TIs and my current CPU/mobo/RAM? That's the position I'm in. I might also be able to pick up a PS4 (and Bloodborne -- I'm a huge From Software fan) if I switch from the Sony to a Samsung U6500, which as I understand is comparable to the 830C?
Click to expand...

The Sony and Samsung are not comparable since the Sammy uses a VA panel whereas the Sony uses an IPS panel.
 
Samsung and Vizio use VA panels and have lower input lag, but double the blur since they use PWM (example) which makes them completely pointless to buy for gaming to a rational person. 2x980 ti>new mobo & ram.
 
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NCX said:
Samsung and Vizio use VA panels and have lower input lag, but double the blur since they use PWM (example) which makes them completely pointless to buy for gaming to a rational person. 2x980 ti>new mobo & ram.
Click to expand...

Those all hurt my eyes, so not sure what my take-away is. I'm currently lusting after a Samsung JS7000 50" as it has direct rather than edge lighting and quantum dot magic (and is a good $300 or so outside my current budget cap), but based on what you're saying there's no point if that's a VA panel as well?
 
NCX said:
Samsung and Vizio use VA panels and have lower input lag, but double the blur since they use PWM (example) which makes them completely pointless to buy for gaming to a rational person. 2x980 ti>new mobo & ram.
Click to expand...

Funny thing is that in my experience with Samsung VA panels, the much hated Motion Rate (120 - 240) feature is actually a blessing anti blur wise, because when I play games with said feature on practically no blur is visible and it doesn't create additional lag to complain about.
 
Wish I knew some people locally who had these sets to go check them out, as obviously looking at them on the floor at Best Buy is useless. Now I'm stuck between:

Sony 830C
- I currently have it. It's expensive, but very well made compared with the Sharp I had before. Sadly it has rather poor black levels, and so-so input lag at 4k; does great so far as lag at 1080p, so that's a little odd.

Samsung JU6500
- less expensive by ~$150, VA instead of IPS so probably better blacks but more blur, reviews about the same as the Sony so far as input lag, I at least see people here saying the blur isn't bad on it and it reviews better than the Vizio re: blur.

Vizio M43-C1
- even lower input lag at around 18ms, but lots of ghosting compared with the other sets from what I've read, and no 4:4:4 chroma support at any resolution. That said, the Sharp didn't support 4:4:4 and I was perfectly fine with it re: picture quality, I only returned it due to the massive input lag.
 
I would pick one up from somewhere with a good return policy and see if it meets your needs. As a FPS gamer and someone who is picky about my screens, I can tell you I have no complaints with the JU6500. It took a little calibrating to get everything how I wanted it, but I'm fully satisfied with the way it performs.
 
What you mean about ''so-so input lag'' ? Does that means you feel that input lag and not happy with it?
 
Still debating with myself over whether I want the BenQ or the Philips.

The main point is that for me, both the BenQ and Philips are within $70 of each other, much smaller than the difference elsewhere.

Basically, I have no way to return my monitor unless it is defective.

BenQ is of better image quality, no PWM and contrast is pretty good, respectable 1080p performance, and has good colours and significantly higher PPI than my Swift. Unfortunately its size is too similar to my Swift (32" vs 27") so I may lose some wow factor.

Philips have much larger screen size, similar PPI so I can move windows between my Swift and Philips without having to resize anything, and the VA have better contrast and glossier coating, but I can also throw the 1080p idea out the window since I assume this thing scales 1080p like all other monitors (IE crappily), and if I find myself sensitive to PWM, I will be forced to use this monitor at 100% brightness, which twice as bright as the current brightness setting on my swift.

SIGH...
 
aadik said:
What you mean about ''so-so input lag'' ? Does that means you feel that input lag and not happy with it?
Click to expand...

Yes, I feel some input lag on the Sony, but it is substantially faster than the Sharp 43" 4K I was testing previously. That said, I can only get 30Hz at 4K with my current GPUs, but I have a pair of 980TIs that are supposed to be delivered some time today, so I will definitely update the thread with impressions once I get them and have a chance to install them.

I went from a 21" Sony Trinitron tube way back in the day (like original Unreal era) to a Soyo DYLM24D6 24" VA panel with great blacks but some input lag and moderate to severe ghosting, to my current Planar PX2611w 26" IPS which has completely spoiled me for input lag (measured by various sites around 12ms) and is a very fast panel, low ghosting for an IPS. I think the main problem I'm having now is that after the Planar everything else seems slow. Granted, I've not played around with some of the newer 120+Hz gaming monitors, but I can't go back to TN (my laptop display is a TN and I hate it) and can't afford the top end IPS options along with enough new GPU to run them well. So I'm stuck with small 4K TVs.

I'm seriously considering swapping the Sony for a 43" Vizio M series; I've read that the M series do not all use VA panels, but rather some are VA and some IPS. I'm somewhat worried about the loss of 4:4:4 4K@60Hz, however, along with concerns over blur from some people here and reviews I've seen.

I'm also considering a 40" Samsung JU6500. Based on discussion here I think that's a VA panel, and I do miss the inky blacks from my last VA. If the ghosting/blur isn't too bad I might be happy with that as well. Still unsure.
 
chenw said:
Still debating with myself over whether I want the BenQ or the Philips.

The main point is that for me, both the BenQ and Philips are within $70 of each other, much smaller than the difference elsewhere.

Basically, I have no way to return my monitor unless it is defective.

BenQ is of better image quality, no PWM and contrast is pretty good, respectable 1080p performance, and has good colours and significantly higher PPI than my Swift. Unfortunately its size is too similar to my Swift (32" vs 27") so I may lose some wow factor.

Philips have much larger screen size, similar PPI so I can move windows between my Swift and Philips without having to resize anything, and the VA have better contrast and glossier coating, but I can also throw the 1080p idea out the window since I assume this thing scales 1080p like all other monitors (IE crappily), and if I find myself sensitive to PWM, I will be forced to use this monitor at 100% brightness, which twice as bright as the current brightness setting on my swift.

SIGH...
Click to expand...

Join the club. I'm in the same boat as you right now. Ultimately I think I'm just going to head over to the local BestBuy and pick up Philips to give it a test drive, it's really the only way I will ever know what's what. I can sit here all day and read and listen to opinions but without actually physically looking at the display and testing it there is no way to determine with absolution whether I will like the display and be ok with it's flaws.
 
Unfortunately I do not have the luxury, a lot of electronic stores here do not even have 1440p screens, let alone 4k They sell them, but they don't display them (no pun).

I think the best I can do is go to Costco here and see if they have matching size monitors, and make my decision then. My swift was purchased based on 'on-paper' conclusions rather than actual experience, but it turned out pretty well for me, so hopefully this one will too.
 
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