4870 X2 On the Way... Having Second Thoughts

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MorbidLilim

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Well, tonight I just got the notification that newegg shipped all my parts for my new build, including a 4870 X2. Also tonight, I was looking around on the board and stumbled upon the Cryostasis tech demo from Nvidia. Doing a bit of searching, I started to find the various games that supported/will support PhysX. Now I'm having second thoughts about whether or not I made the right decision. I was planning to play UT3, which apparently supports PhysX, and that Cryostasis thing looks quite impressive and interesting. I went with the 4870 X2 so I could have as close to the best performance/visuals as possible, but now I feel like I'm missing something without PhysX. I'm pretty sure UT3 is the only PhysX enabled game I currently have, though. I'll be playing at 1920x1200. Is it worth the trouble of getting a refund for the card and going with something from Nvidia instead?

Oh, and another major factor is Warhammer Online performance. It doesn't support multi-GPU solutions. A gamespot benchmark (the only test I could find for the game, unfortunately) puts the Radeon cards ahead of Nvidia's offerings, though I've heard Nvidia has better driver support for the game (TWIMTBP, etc). Forcing transparency AA with ATI results in this: http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b99/Cymon7/WAR1.jpg Creepy zombie characters.

Anyways... what should I do?
 
It is not worth the trouble for a few games, you will be glad that you got the X2 when you play other games as well.
 
I've watched a few side by side comparison videos of phsx supported games with and without,
physx does add to the display
love how smooth grid runs at 2560x1600 all maxed on my 4870x2
should you second guess yourself MorbidLilim
what is your final choice
 
MorbidLilim said:
Well, tonight I just got the notification that newegg shipped all my parts for my new build, including a 4870 X2. Also tonight, I was looking around on the board and stumbled upon the Cryostasis tech demo from Nvidia. Doing a bit of searching, I started to find the various games that supported/will support PhysX. Now I'm having second thoughts about whether or not I made the right decision. I was planning to play UT3, which apparently supports PhysX, and that Cryostasis thing looks quite impressive and interesting. I went with the 4870 X2 so I could have as close to the best performance/visuals as possible, but now I feel like I'm missing something without PhysX. I'm pretty sure UT3 is the only PhysX enabled game I currently have, though. I'll be playing at 1920x1200. Is it worth the trouble of getting a refund for the card and going with something from Nvidia instead?

Oh, and another major factor is Warhammer Online performance. It doesn't support multi-GPU solutions. A gamespot benchmark (the only test I could find for the game, unfortunately) puts the Radeon cards ahead of Nvidia's offerings, though I've heard Nvidia has better driver support for the game (TWIMTBP, etc). Forcing transparency AA with ATI results in this: http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b99/Cymon7/WAR1.jpg Creepy zombie characters.

Anyways... what should I do?
Click to expand...

It's still soon to base a purchasing decision on the fact that a GeForce can accelerate physics effects too, besides just graphics, but it's definitely a bonus feature, that comes with no price tag, for everyone with a GeForce already. Games that will use complex physics effects are or will be in development for a while and it makes no sense to wait until then. You'll walk that path, when those games appear.
You should base your purchasing decisions based on the budget you have, the resolution you intend to play and the games you want to play with that video card. Proper driver support, is obviously something important too and NVIDIA does work more closely with developers than AMD does. If from the reviews that you've read (such as the ones in [H]ardOCP, Tech-Report, Bit-Tech, etc) a certain card performs better than the other in the games you want to play and is within your budget. get it.
 
Send it back and get a GTX 280. Another thing that is bad about the HD4870X2 is the fast that it has micro stuttering.
 
By the time more PhysX games are out, there will be new nVidia cards available.

QuickS said:
Send it back and get a GTX 280. Another thing that is bad about the HD4870X2 is the fast that it has micro stuttering.
Click to expand...

HD 4870 1GB also can't utilize all of its memories because it only has 256bit bus right? :rolleyes:
 
If you are really worried about it, there's an add in physics card you can buy at the egg. It's made by asus and runs about 89 bucks I think. Here's a chart outlining what it can do for ATI's non physx cards:

ut3.gif


If it's something that's really going to bug you, this is the next best thing you can do, other than getting a GTX280 or a 260 and a dedicated physx card (9600gt or something).
 
Is it true that UT3 only supports hardware accelerated PhysX effects in a few PhysX maps only?
 
if i were you, i'll keep the 4870x2 for now since it's a fine card... if you're not satisfy with it later.. just sell it and buy the next generation of nVidia cards next year
 
QuickS said:
Send it back and get a GTX 280. Another thing that is bad about the HD4870X2 is the fast that it has micro stuttering.
Click to expand...

Um your full of shit on that one buddy.


alg7_munif said:
Is it true that UT3 only supports hardware accelerated PhysX effects in a few PhysX maps only?
Click to expand...

No it can run software Physx also if you download the xpac from the UT3 site.
 
Keep it, use it, it's a beast. If you don't like it return it or sell it and move on..
 
Mnx4 said:
If you are really worried about it, there's an add in physics card you can buy at the egg. It's made by asus and runs about 89 bucks I think. Here's a chart outlining what it can do for ATI's non physx cards:

ut3.gif


If it's something that's really going to bug you, this is the next best thing you can do, other than getting a GTX280 or a 260 and a dedicated physx card (9600gt or something).
Click to expand...

On my setup playing UT3 running the physx software emulation on my 4870x2 I get about 70 fps with the limiter turned off on the tornado map. The game defaults to a 60fps limiter, you are not gona notice a damn thing.
 
Can you get by a month with an older card you might have? GTX 295 in early January. Slightly faster overall than an HD 4870 X2 and the same price.

Edit: To the foul language and insults in this thread, you guys should have ability to disagree with someone and point out flaws in their claims without resorting to that.
 
I can't verify this, but I had read somewhere in these forums that if the program is not physx accelerated, the PPU could still be used to some degree to offload calculations from the GPU. Could be another nice reason to own a PPU, but not deal breaker.
 
ta addict#2 said:
I've watched a few side by side comparison videos of phsx supported games with and without,
physx does add to the display
love how smooth grid runs at 2560x1600 all maxed on my 4870x2
should you second guess yourself MorbidLilim
what is your final choice
Click to expand...

Is this two haikus strapped together? What the hell is going on?
 
re: Warhammer Performance

I have a 4870x2 and play Warhammer Online, the most recent patches to the game combined with the 8.12 catalyst drivers has fixed the weird zombie/see through body issue.

Also, I turned the CrossFire splash on in the CCC and noticed that in Full Screen mode the splash comes up and it didn't used to, so perhaps they are starting to support CrossFire/SLI on this game.

Some very good progress has been made on the game and with the Cat drivers in the past month, I'm very pleased and hope they continue down this road of improvements.
 
Won't find many online only games that will support multi-GPU systems, your asking too much of the bandwidth.
 
I would have to say keep the 4870x2, a buddy of mine has one and he swears buy it.....
 
When your card arrives and you begin to use it, you'll feel like deleting this thread.
 
I think buying any high end card right now is a mistake considering the new cards that will be out in Q1-09. Normally I don't advocate waiting, but when you're dealing with $500 video cards and the wait truly is right around the corner, I think it's a good idea. At the very least it would drive current prices down.
 
Well.. I could go with a GTX 280 or something from a company with a step-up program... That way I could hedge my bet and have PhysX in the meantime, plus a little upgrade insurance...

Any significant downside to this vs. the 4870x2? With the 4870x2, I'd probably use it for a full year before upgrading. If I went the Nvidia route, I would probably upgrade sometime before March or earlier with step-up, or just by adding in another card.

I hate missing out on features, and a year is a long time. With Nvidia pushing PhysX more and more and some huge publishers signing on, it seems likely there will be some games with PhysX support between now and Dec 09 I'll be wishing I could play with the effects turned on. Hell, Cryostasis looks interesting, so it may be sooner than I think.

Any opinions on all of this?
 
By the time more PhysX games are out, the GTX 280 would be obsolete. It is not worth the hassle to downgrade to a slower card to play a few PhysX games that are available now. Even UT3 only supports PhysX acceleration in just a few maps, not all. If you really need PhysX, it would be much easier to buy this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121246&Tpk=physx

A few game developers have just signed a deal with nVidia for the PhysX license but that doesn't mean they will use it in every game they produce. A game developement takes more than a year so I doubt that you will see more than a few PhysX games in a year time.
 
Yes of course. :rolleyes:

Also by the time PhysX starts to dominate, every ATI card will be obsolete as well :D

I believe that will not take too long either. EA, 2K Games and THQ on board the PhysX train. Hopefully Activision soon. Real lack of Havok acceleration with ATI hardware announced.

It would be foolish to think that Intel would give their physics IP to their arch rival AMD instead of waiting to implement it on Larrabee first...

So to recap AMD can't have GPU physics and has decided to downtalk what that cannot have as they are clearly the inferior product. In addition as another noted previously, 4870X2 indeed has proven microstutter... Please see PCGH website for more details... :)
 
Keep your 4870 X2, it's a geat card.

I've had a couple and wasn't sorry.

I went back to SLi for a number of other reasons,and you can be damn straight Physx WASN'T one of them, but that X2 will make you smile.:D
 
As another poster said, once you get your x2 you'll want to delete this thread. It's an absolutely fantastic card and to pass it up just because of a very small portion of games using PhysX is a very bad idea. UT3 won't even make this card blink, and forget about Cryostasis; why base a video card purchase on a tech demo?

Also, ignore the people whining about ATI drivers and the supposed 'microstutter'. ATI drivers work fine if you actually follow a proper install procedure, and the only people who bitch about microstutter are those who havn't used an x2 but are just grasping at straws to try to come up with reasons to bash it.

You're buying the best video card out on the market; don't worry too much :)
 
Is Kyle your keeper or something? :confused:

You speak as if you are Kyle's best friend? Do you write/work for [H]or KB networks?

Answer the question.

In fact maybe I should ask Kyle himself if he is acquainted with you.

Kyle's articles are pretty clear so give him some credit for his excellent writing skills. He does not require you almunif to remasticate and regurgitate his articles to [H] readers...

If I and others want to read Kyle's articles we will happily read them ourselves. We surely do not need you to tell us something we have already know a priori.

To be honest I have no idea why AMD have not hired you yet :confused: Oh of course they are making layoffs as they are barely struggling to stay afloat! What an error on my part :rolleyes:

Actually I have owned 3870X2 quadfire and 4870CF and all I can say is that microstutter and hitching are tangible and apparent issues. @ OP Since you are having second thoughts I say wait for the GTX295 or GT300 40nm when it comes out... :)
 
MorbidLilim said:
Well.. I could go with a GTX 280 or something from a company with a step-up program... That way I could hedge my bet and have PhysX in the meantime, plus a little upgrade insurance...

Any significant downside to this vs. the 4870x2? With the 4870x2, I'd probably use it for a full year before upgrading. If I went the Nvidia route, I would probably upgrade sometime before March or earlier with step-up, or just by adding in another card.

I hate missing out on features, and a year is a long time. With Nvidia pushing PhysX more and more and some huge publishers signing on, it seems likely there will be some games with PhysX support between now and Dec 09 I'll be wishing I could play with the effects turned on. Hell, Cryostasis looks interesting, so it may be sooner than I think.

Any opinions on all of this?
Click to expand...

That's the route I would go personally.

I just feel the 4870X2 is overpriced at the moment and I would rather have a 260 or 280 SLI setup for the same or less money. The step up option would be icing on the cake.
 
Let us know how you like the 4870x2 card. At least try it. Don't worry about some tech so far off in the future. Worry about it when it's here in mainstream games. By that time you will have a clearer choice of options.
 
Dethred said:
When your card arrives and you begin to use it, you'll feel like deleting this thread.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but then he'll start a new one about how he cant get the drivers to install, or his games are crashing, or everytime he starts his PC he gets a BSOD.

OP: Physx isnt important right now. I feel the 4870x2 is over priced when a GTX280 can be had with FarCry2 for 325 AR and a step up option, but it is currently the fastest card. Microstutter is real, dont let anyone tell you its not, but it doesnt seem to be as noticeable as some make it out to be. In terms of playability at 1920x1200, the 4870x2 wont really be much better than a GTX280, certainly not worth the price difference IMHO.
 
Step Up is almost always more expensive than selling your card to another gamer and using that money to buy from an online retailer. EVGA only credits you for the price you paid for you card (way lower than they charge), and charges you their MSRP (which can be $100+ over retailer prices).

Step Up is a way for EVGA to make money, its not a gift to you.

Oh yeah, and you have to wait for stock and send your card in first. If your card has an RMA before you want to step up, your card is void from the program.

nissanztt90 said:
Yeah, but then he'll start a new one about how he cant get the drivers to install, or his games are crashing, or everytime he starts his PC he gets a BSOD.
Click to expand...

Sounds like user error or a bad card. I have had an easier time with drivers on my ATi card than ever with Nvidia. At least I don't have the nvklldm.sys (spelling?) BSOD every day.
 
If you really want PhysX, keep the ATI card and get the add-on PCI-E 1x PsysX card from the egg.
 
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