4850? Don't bother.

Status
Not open for further replies.
T

TAXMANCOMETH

Weaksauce
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
83
Screwed again. RMA'd a perfectly good MSI 8800GT w/ an awesome cooling solution for this 4850, which sucks balls. That's not to say that a couple of driver/bios releases can't make it work and work well, but woe to the early adopters. Idles at 80c, and HEAT KILLS ELECTRONICS. I've got extra fans pointed at it, but it idles high. After a couple of weeks, it started getting very flaky on me (reboots, etc.) Bear in mind, I have not been playing games or overclocking - just office tasks at the moment.
So, I broke down and installed ASUS's smart doctor utility, which allows for fan speed control. (i am wary of any software written by a hardware company, esp. asus.) Well, the utility worked, in that I was able to set fan speed to ramp up w/ temps. Result? Idle quietly at 55c. Fine. Should've done it 2 weeks ago. Left it on overnight and that was the end of it. Hasn't booted properly since. ASUS's software solution on affects fan speed once the software is loaded, which give the card plenty of time to overheat during the boot process. (this is with the case off and a box fan blowing at the card). Like I said, HEAT KILLS ELECTRONICS. Sometimes it's a slow, degenerative, and irreversable death. Once the damage is done, it's toast. It's going back. Looking for a great deal on an NVIDIA card.
 
so do u not think that modern graphics GPUs can handle the heat it was designed for? what credentials do you have to say this? ur not one of the engineers who design the chip. your statement is like saying u must keep an engine running cooler because heat kills them but fail to realize they were designed for a certain temperature.
 
what I dont get..is you "RMA'd a perfectly good MSI 8800GT"
Why?
and they gave you a ATI card for it?
 
Regardless of whether or not heat kills electronics, it's the summer and having a card that idles at 80C is something I know I sure wouldn't want to live with this time of year.

80C doesn't sound like a temp that would damage a modern GPU though maybe something that would restrict a memory overclock or cause artifacting but not wholy damage a working card.

Just out of curiosity, what was the fan speed of the card before you used the asus app? And judging from asus' in windows motherboard bios update software I wouldn't trust anything from them either. RivaTuner is the way to go for fan speed control and overclocking.
 
I had just purchased the 8800GT when the 4850 came out. Given the reviews and cost/perf of the 4850, I decided I wanted it instead. So, even w/ the restocking fee, I was able to switch to a $149 4850 for even money.

If heat doesn't matter, then why does everyone here bother to upgrade their pc cooling? Are you insinuating that these cards were designed to idle 24/7 at 80c? nonsense. The supplied cooling solution w/ the 4850 is ample to keep these temps in check, and indeed, there are many reports of load temps < idle temps because fan speeds ramped up under load. The minimum fan speed set in the bios qualifies as a goof on the part of AMD - a slight bump in fan speed will eliminate these problems, and I'm betting it is addressed in v1.1. Sucks to be the early adopter, though.

Default fan speed = too slow... lol. No clue as to the original RPM.
 
TAXMANCOMETH said:
I had just purchased the 8800GT when the 4850 came out. Given the reviews and cost/perf of the 4850, I decided I wanted it instead. So, even w/ the restocking fee, I was able to switch to a $149 4850 for even money.

If heat doesn't matter, then why does everyone here bother to upgrade their pc cooling? Are you insinuating that these cards were designed to idle 24/7 at 80c? nonsense. The supplied cooling solution w/ the 4850 is ample to keep these temps in check, and indeed, there are many reports of load temps < idle temps because fan speeds ramped up under load. The minimum fan speed set in the bios qualifies as a goof on the part of AMD - a slight bump in fan speed will eliminate these problems, and I'm betting it is addressed in v1.1. Sucks to be the early adopter, though.

Default fan speed = too slow... lol. No clue as to the original RPM.
Click to expand...

You are not ATI. You don't know what the idle/load temps are supposed to be. Remember that GPUs can and are designed to operate at up to 110C I believe. And if you want to complain so much, just replace the thermal paste and you'll drop a couple of C's. Even better, spend like 25 dollars to get an accelero S1 to get absurdly low idle/load temps. Also just wait for another bios/driver update from ATI, supposedly it'll fix the idle wattage use and that'll drop idle temps drastically.
 
You should have read this thread:http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1320351

I was concerned about my 4870 idle and load temps from day one......so I did some research.

With the CCC on the Overdrive page, you can easily set a profile to ramp up the card's fan.
I have two 4870s and have the fans set to 35%. My idle dropped from 68 to 43C and the cards do not go over 70C at load. Unfortunately you yet cannot make an automatic profile as in RivaTuner, but I'm sure with RT 2.10 revision we will be able to do that as well.

Yes, the cards are hot but I don't think your card died specifically because of heat related issues. If that was the case the 8800 GTs and GTXs would all be dead by now. I have had three GTXs and two GTs and needed to use RivaTuner for them to increase the fan profile in order that they ran cooler as well.

The cards can tolerate heat or the vendors wouldn't sell them. Before nvidia and their partners added bigger fans and tweaked the BIOS fan profiles a number of 8800 GT cards bit the dust as well.
 
firstly, these cards CAN handle that heat.

second the fan is just very low. you can edit your CCC profile's xml file to adjust the speed to whatever you want, no extra programs necessary and the temp will dive immensely with a slight readjustment.

and thirdly: WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF TECHNOLOGY. where getting the newest stuff JUST MIGHT need a little updating before its perfect. :rolleyes: you cant expect drivers to be great on any brand new line of computer hardware. if this is what youre looking for in a computer, i suggest checking out Macs.
 
Given the OPs shouting (not really a replacement for expertise) I feel the need to yet again remind folks about the exhaustive google census (this was no simple survey, this was a far-reaching, "unprecedented" census of consumer grade hard drives they were using) of their hardware failures. They found NO CORRELATION (see how i did that with the caps) between HEAT and FAILURE of the drives. Now like good scientists they admitted that they couldn't rule out some link, but when your looking at the amount of data they were, hidden correlations are about as likely as the easter bunny.

for your reading pleasure: research.google.com/archive/disk_failures.pdf

yes, yes, the OP was talking about chips and not drives, but unless I'm missing something there are a number of very impt chips inside those drives, right at ground zero for the heat, and they weren't even designed to take the heat like these gpus are.
 
TAXMANCOMETH said:
Hasn't booted properly since. ASUS's software solution on affects fan speed once the software is loaded, which give the card plenty of time to overheat during the boot process. (this is with the case off and a box fan blowing at the card). Like I said, HEAT KILLS ELECTRONICS. Sometimes it's a slow, degenerative, and irreversable death. Once the damage is done, it's toast. It's going back. Looking for a great deal on an NVIDIA card.
Click to expand...

Overheat during the boot process? LOL.

Did you happen to flash one of the reported bad bios's to get the asus utility running?
 
Oh well, you can't satisfy everyone.
"Exception or the rule?" and all that jazz.
 
Wow, to clear up a few things -

1) Temperature =/ heat - the reason the card is 80C is because the heatsink retains more heat so it doesn't go into your room.

2) You are not a design engineer. ATi designed the card to operate well and efficiently and ATi > you.
 
Did you bother to Google for a solution to the heat issue? It's a very easy fix with ATI Catalyst Control Center.

I'd say the 4850 is the best bang for the buck card you can buy.
 
Is there some kind of brain damage going around where a card that runs fine in spec is somehow not good? Whatever, my 4870 idles around 78 and loads around 81 and doesn't impact my room temp in a meaningful way.
 
xbob04 said:
Is there some kind of brain damage going around where a card that runs fine in spec is somehow not good? Whatever, my 4870 idles around 78 and loads around 81 and doesn't impact my room temp in a meaningful way.
Click to expand...
GPU temp has nothing to do with the heat in your room.
 
Just to reinteriate what was said above:

1.) ATi designed the chips to run at certain temperatures. People also screamed when the 8800gtx came out running at 70C.

2.) Google is your friend. There were much better solutions to the one you took, most of which would be on the first page of a search.

Also explain how you RMAd a 8800gt and got a 4850?!?
 
UtopiA said:
GPU temp has nothing to do with the heat in your room.
Click to expand...

Yea, exactly my point, thanks.

Edit: Sorry, I got this mixed up with the other "I'm not going to use this card because it gets hot" thread, where room temp is part of the rationale.
 
after failure, rebooting immediately = immediate fail. monitors wouldn't even come on.

wait for 20 sec and reboot = hang half way through boot.

let it rest several minutes, but walk away during boot process for a few minutes = computer hung at welcome screen where you click your name to start.

let it rest a few minutes and stay right with it = boot into windows, asus smart doc starts, fan speeds go up, temps fall, it works a few minutes and then freezes.

Maybe I'm no ATi tech, but given the above, I'd guess it's a combination of heat + being fooked.

I haven't messed with the bios. It's an asus card.

Mr K6 - you must be kidding. The card is releasing the energy/heat based on factors that have nothing to do with fan speed. The same heat will be released into the room regardless of its idle temp. At zero rpm, heat would just accumulates in the hsf until whole bloody card heats up sufficiently to radiate the heat away. It doens't make it a good idea.

Given the time you all have no doubt spent optimizing airflow, etc., inside your own computers, I cannot believe I'm arguing with pc enthusiasts about the evils of heat/computers. This business w/ 80c idles is a v1.0 fluke, not a feature. While some chips may live at high temps, others from different batches may not. If the idle temps had been 55c from the start, I doubt we'd be having this conversation. This should be sorted out in v1.1

btw, where did my post about fanboys go?

edit: i've been w/ nvidia since my 9500 pro, which was great. I bought the 8800gt from newegg, but sent it back after less than 30 days for a refund less restocking fee and bought a 4850 outright. i would have preferred to wait, but after 30 days there's no going back. glad to see ATi is stepping up. Wish they would hurry up and resolve this issue.
 
if its hot then you can always make it cooler. Theres ice on the fridge for instant. Or you can piss on it like what they do when mortars overheat :D

Seriously, nowadays if you got issues with hardware google will show tons of forums with members willing to help (good guys on the net) or flame you for your stupidity (not necessarily bad, some of those types can be real wanks)
 
this thread is pointless and judging by your join date I would say you're a troll.
 
You guessed. I'm a troll. I stopped what I was doing to share my experiences with this card because I'm a troll. I was an active member many years ago, but got a life and I guess my old account expired. Grow up and move out of your parent's basement.
 
TAXMANCOMETH said:
Screwed again. RMA'd a perfectly good MSI 8800GT w/ an awesome cooling solution for this 4850, which sucks balls. That's not to say that a couple of driver/bios releases can't make it work and work well, but woe to the early adopters. Idles at 80c, and HEAT KILLS ELECTRONICS. I've got extra fans pointed at it, but it idles high. After a couple of weeks, it started getting very flaky on me (reboots, etc.) Bear in mind, I have not been playing games or overclocking - just office tasks at the moment.
So, I broke down and installed ASUS's smart doctor utility, which allows for fan speed control. (i am wary of any software written by a hardware company, esp. asus.) Well, the utility worked, in that I was able to set fan speed to ramp up w/ temps. Result? Idle quietly at 55c. Fine. Should've done it 2 weeks ago. Left it on overnight and that was the end of it. Hasn't booted properly since. ASUS's software solution on affects fan speed once the software is loaded, which give the card plenty of time to overheat during the boot process. (this is with the case off and a box fan blowing at the card). Like I said, HEAT KILLS ELECTRONICS. Sometimes it's a slow, degenerative, and irreversable death. Once the damage is done, it's toast. It's going back. Looking for a great deal on an NVIDIA card.
Click to expand...

Ugh, go buy your overpriced space heater (280GTX) and go back to nvnews already.
 
TAXMANCOMETH said:
You guessed. I'm a troll. I stopped what I was doing to share my experiences with this card because I'm a troll. I was an active member many years ago, but got a life and I guess my old account expired. Grow up and move out of your parent's basement.
Click to expand...

So did you lose a life by coming back here? I'm confused.
 
AceCR42 said:
So did you lose a life by coming back here? I'm confused.
Click to expand...

I think I'm feeling it slip away. Arguing with some of these fanboys is a bit like explaining the flying spaghetti monster to an Evangelical type. ...a nice and well-meaning lot, with lots of helpful folks for members, but just don't say anything counter to their idol.
 
Cooling on the 4870 is a lot better. I had the 4850 and it runs very hot, 75c at idle and 85c and up on load. It's really a non issue though, get an accelero s1 at directron for $25 and slap it on the 4850 and it will run a lot cooler. You get a gtx260 or gtx280 and the only option of running cooler is a $200 waterblock and another $200 or more for a radiator and pump. 4850 with a accelero cooler is really a great option for those looking for an htpc type solution as I hear the 4850 runs very cool on the accelero s1 passively, which is quite remarkable.
 
i had a 8800gt, and it wasnt all that cool(heat wise) either . I believe its idle was high to mid 60-70c and the load was 80+. Until you used riva tuner to keep the fan speed up. 8800gts 512mb was ice cold compared to the 8800gt.

So why the hate on the 4850. The 8800gt is a room warmer was well. Buy some S1s problem solved, both mine idle passivly 42-45c and load is not above 59c on either of them.
 
I don't see how you have room to complain when this has been thoroughly discussed in numerous threads on here.

hi5 for reading before trading up.
 
TAXMANCOMETH said:
I think I'm feeling it slip away. Arguing with some of these fanboys is a bit like explaining the flying spaghetti monster to an Evangelical type. ...a nice and well-meaning lot, with lots of helpful folks for members, but just don't say anything counter to their idol.
Click to expand...

Dropping the fanboy bomb is the sign of someone with no point to make, we aren't fanboys (my last 5 cards have been nVidia actually) we just passed basic science in high school.
 
lol why did I even bother to click on this thread? Are you SURE that it is the video card? Are you SURE that it isn't something else?
 
TAXMANCOMETH said:
I think I'm feeling it slip away. Arguing with some of these fanboys is a bit like explaining the flying spaghetti monster to an Evangelical type. ...a nice and well-meaning lot, with lots of helpful folks for members, but just don't say anything counter to their idol.
Click to expand...
wow and to think i tried to help someone as ignorant as a pre-teen dogmatic atheist who preaches against preaching and seems to know it all. :rolleyes: oh well GOD bless you. even if you do get all your thoughts from some senile old man's youtube videos and books aimed at rebellious children. :D

p.s. this is my first ATi card ever
 
This thread was DOA as it was, but now religion has entered into the mix.

Thread-I_like_where_this_thread_is_going.jpg
 
I have the Asus HD4850 also, and have had it since day one. It has survied some +100F days in a closed cabinet with little airflow. It idles at 80C and load is 100C.

I have not had a single issue with this card, and it is far better than the 8800GT I upgraded from, you would be disapointed if you downgraded to it.

With the problem you have at boot, I would suggest that the card had a deffect, that has become apparant as the card has been used and stressed.

No Quality Control is perfect, otherwise ther would be no such thing as a RMA, in any industry.

I suggest you return it to Newegg or RMA to Asus.

I have not seen any mass failures reported on any HD4850 or HD4870 on the net. So before you start to blame ATI how about you wait to see how another one will perform in your system. If the second fails then you can start to blame ATI, that is after you have confirmed that it is not your system that is having problems.
 
You keep your PC closed in a closet?
That's a pretty good idea, but after a few hours, doesn't all the retained heat cause problems?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top