43" 4K Monitor - Help me choose

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HA5

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I'm shopping for a 42-44" 4K Monitor...
  • For web development + minor photo editing, not gaming
  • 4:4:4 60Hz
  • Either HDMI 2.0 or DisplayPort 1.2
  • Prefer better viewing angles and color over speed
  • Prefer RGB, but could live with BGR and turn off font smoothing
  • Prefer flat over curved
  • Available in US
  • I don't need "multiview", picture-in-picture, or tv tuner, though they might be nice all else being equal
I'm looking at these:
  1. Samsung 43KU7000
  2. Samsung 43KU7500
  3. Wasabi Mango UHD420
  4. Philips BDM4350UC
  5. Dell P4317Q
  • Samsungs are inexpensive, TVs, but not IPS, so not as good for color or angles, and the 7500 is curved
  • The Wasabi is inexpensive, IPS, but poor reviews, overall quality is iffy, and no TV
  • Philips and Dell are IPS, but more expensive, have ghosting and burn-in, are BGR, and no TV
Is that a fair assessment?
Are there any other options?
Should I wait for Dell and Philips to fix their models?
If I had to get one today, what would you recommend?

Thanks.
 
I think the Sony XBR43X800D might be better then Samsung. Sony seems to use DC instead of PWM and has ca 33 ms input lag but I am not sure how suitable it is for web development and photo editing, it seems to be a 10bit panel with 96% DCI-P3 color space coverage.
 
The only clear choice is the Samsung 43KU7000.

The color shift doesn't happen until you're practically off to the side so this is a non-issue.

It would be an absolute mistake to get anything Korean other than Samsung. Seriously, Wasabi Mango? The set doesn't even take it's name seriously.

There are just too many Pro's with the Samsung 43KU7000.

HDR support
Low latency / input lag
Incredible PQ
Amazing fit and finish / build quality
 
You will only get good viewing angles with IPS. If you're working with text all day for your web development, IPS's ability to avoid color shift at an angle is a godsend for the eyes. I started out with a 4K 42" VA monitor that gradually drove me nuts with its color shifting. I've been so much happier after switching to IPS. The VA panels of the Samsungs are not a good choice at all for doing any extended work with text, so in spite of the enthusiastic recommendations from other posters, I'd skip any sort of large format VA panel monitor.

In the 42-44" sizes for IPS, your choices are the Wasabi Mango, Philips, and Dell monitors you listed, plus the 2015 model Sony XBR-43X830C (the 2016 XBR-43X800D is a VA panel) and the 2015 LG 43UF7600 (LG's only true 4K 4:4:4 TV at this size).

If you are sensitive to PWM and flicker, that eliminates the Dell. The other monitors are all non-PWM.

The Wasabi Mango UHD420 has been discontinued, replaced by the UHD430. Both of these, plus the LG, have a fairly significant 1/4" or so gap between the panel and the backlight. This will causes problems viewing text at the edges of the monitor if you're sitting any closer than 3 feet.

The Philips and the Dell have notable image retention issues as you wrote above. The Wasabi Mango and LG have image retention to a lesser degree, and the Sony almost none.

All of these TVs are BGR. In Windows you can set HKEY_CURRENT_USER/Control Panel/Desktop::FontSmoothing to 2 and which forces ClearType to adjust to BGR instead of RGB. On OSX you're basically SOL unless you mount the TV upside down.

Latency can be an issue when trying to do quick, precision mouse movements. For 4:4:4 color, the LG has fairly high latency (over 55ms), the Wasabi Mango a moderate amount (around 40-50ms), the Sony a relatively low latency (37ms), and the Philips and Dell super low (less than 30ms).

The LG, Sony, and Wasabi Mango have very reflective screens. This can be an issue in bright rooms. Dim overhead lighting would work best with these.

The Sony has a particular issue that happens infrequently. Every once in a while, the screen will "stutter" (it looks very similar to screen tearing in games when the frame rate drops and v-sync is off). This only seems to happen with HDMI inputs set to 4:4:4. I solved this on my Sony by using Hotkey Resolution Changer to switch rapidly between 59Hz and 60Hz which immediately resets the input.

One thing I have to admit about the Sony, it's scaling quality is phenomenal. I didn't originally buy it for watching TV or videos, but man, pictures look really good.

Unfortunately the ideal large format monitor doesn't exist yet. I work with text all day and for me, the Sony X830C was the monitor with the least amount of drawbacks. I'm still looking forward to to the day when OLED matures and we can get perfect color, wide viewing angles, no image retention, and super low latency. Until then, my Sony is good enough for my day to day work.
 
Thanks for the replies. Especially killerbobjr, great info.

And, thanks for mentioning the Sony and LG, they weren't on my radar. Correcting and adding to my list:
  1. Samsung 43KU7000
  2. Samsung 43KU7500
  3. Wasabi Mango UHD430
  4. Philips BDM4350UC
  5. Dell P4317Q
  6. Sony XBR43X830C
  7. LG 43UF7600
I'll check out the Sony.
 
Viewing angle is overrated for a monitor since how often will you be work off angle to it and getting a curve screen eliminate any color shift at the very edge. I use a 40JU7500 as my main PC monitor and also have a 65KS9500 with a HT/Gaming PC and love them both. The problem is that the smallest full HDR 10 model is the 49KS8500. The KU7500 only have limited support for HDR 10 but they are still pretty good looking.
 
HA5 said:
Rtings posted this listing recently:
Best TVs For PC Monitors - Fall 2016
They raked the Sony X830C the best in the 40-43" size range.
Click to expand...

They only tested the KU6300 which is the low end 4K line. The KU7500 is a 2 tiers above that and will be about the same as the Sony. I had the JU6500 before I returned it for a JU7500 last year as the difference between the two is quite noticeable.
 
Wiz33 said:
They only tested the KU6300 which is the low end 4K line. The KU7500 is a 2 tiers above that and will be about the same as the Sony. I had the JU6500 before I returned it for a JU7500 last year as the difference between the two is quite noticeable.
Click to expand...

I can't disagree with your experience. You are correct that it seems they have not tested the KU7500. But, they tested the KU7000 and gave it a lower PC Monitor rating than the KU6300. In their KU7000 review they say "In the end, the Samsung KU7000 is not easy to recommend since the KU6300 is cheaper and has the same picture quality."
 
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Wiz33 said:
Viewing angle is overrated for a monitor since how often will you be work off angle to it and getting a curve screen eliminate any color shift at the very edge.
Click to expand...

Coders have windows open all over their desktop. If you're looking at code all day, the color shift when viewing syntax highlighted text, curved screen or not, definitely increases eyestrain. And you neglect to address vertically oriented color shifting, which happens regardless of the horizontal curve. I experienced such frustration, physically trying to adjust my head to compensate for color shifts on my former VA monitor, that the switch to IPS felt like heaven.
 
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Ok, so here is the problem with the Sony's .... input lag / latency. It's up there.

Now, if you're absolutely not a gamer then ok, no biggie, get the Sony. End of story.

I just cannot imagine anyone not gaming at some point. For me, it's also a bases covered / cover your ass type of situation.

I have the Samsung KS8000 and it's freaking amazing. Both in PQ, build / fit and finish and latency. In fact, I will probably finish out the year as the best display you can buy fpr 2016. It's currently ranked number 1.

Also, as others have pointed out not to mention, you should have the common sense to figure this out on your own, viewing angles are very overrated. DON'T sabotage yourself over a detail that has no real world impact. No one is ever going to be sitting off that extreme to the side hurting their neck. But to each his own and that's fine.
 
If there was a 43" KS, I would seriously consider it.

Long ago I figured out on my own that viewing angles are one of the most important things to me. But, I understand not everyone feels the same way.
 
killerbobjr said:
Coders have windows open all over their desktop. If you're looking at code all day, the color shift when viewing syntax highlighted text, curved screen or not, definitely increases eyestrain. And you neglect to address vertically oriented color shifting, which happens regardless of the horizontal curve. I experienced such frustration, physically trying to adjust my head to compensate for color shifts on my former VA monitor, that the switch to IPS felt like heaven.
Click to expand...

That's why i got a the curved screen on the 40". I'm not a coder but I work with large spreadsheet and I have no problem at all on the 40" VA with vertical color shift. I also have a 32" 4K IPS that I used on another desk and there's really no difference between using the 2.
 
SixFootDuo said:
Ok, so here is the problem with the Sony's .... input lag / latency. It's up there.

Now, if you're absolutely not a gamer then ok, no biggie, get the Sony. End of story.

I just cannot imagine anyone not gaming at some point. For me, it's also a bases covered / cover your ass type of situation.

I have the Samsung KS8000 and it's freaking amazing. Both in PQ, build / fit and finish and latency. In fact, I will probably finish out the year as the best display you can buy fpr 2016. It's currently ranked number 1.

Also, as others have pointed out not to mention, you should have the common sense to figure this out on your own, viewing angles are very overrated. DON'T sabotage yourself over a detail that has no real world impact. No one is ever going to be sitting off that extreme to the side hurting their neck. But to each his own and that's fine.
Click to expand...

Yep. and I'm trying to convince myself that a 49KS8500 is not too large for my desk ;-P
 
Now you just made me take out the ruler and start measuring. Not so much regarding desk space (my desk is huge) but mostly as far as viewing distance is concerned and I have to say that at 1.2m this thing looks normal to me.

I am so sick that there are no good monitor options out there and have to turn to a TV but spending the same (or more money) on an Asus PA329Q 32" 4K only to find out that I need scaling would really piss me off.

I make heavy use of Adobe software so scaling ain't going to work. I was on the same boat 3-4 months ago searching for a monitor and then I decided to wait some more. But things have not improved much.


So I am considering buying this for professional work where a lot of multitasking is required and NO SMALL text and UIs is imperative. And am I correct that this display can be calibrated to achieve almost 100% Adobe RGB?

Then is it possible to switch calibration profiles for sRGB use?

If these are possible then I might have found my next monitor that when better options are will go straight to the kids' playroom to replace a 40" 1080p Samsung.
 
Clear type font smoothing works on BGR panels - tested and confirmed on my Seiki 39" 4k.
As long as you use Windows and avoid OSX , pixel aligment is a non-issue.
 
SixFootDuo said:
Ok, so here is the problem with the Sony's .... input lag / latency. It's up there.
Now, if you're absolutely not a gamer then ok, no biggie, get the Sony.
Click to expand...

You can game just fine on the Sony. You're talking about a 1 frame difference between your Samsung KS8000 (that you have to switch to 4:2:2 for the lower lag) and the Sony. I don't have any issues playing FPS or other fast paced games, nor do many other users of this TV.

SixFootDuo said:
. . . viewing angles are very overrated. DON'T sabotage yourself over a detail that has no real world impact.
Click to expand...

That's a very broad brush you're using. Hey, I get it that you love your Samsung and you want others to experience the joy you feel over your choice of monitors. If my job didn't require me to stare at color coded text all day, I probably would have also gotten a Samsung. The reality is that people who need a large format monitor for working with code are going to be affected by the color shifts of VA panels.

It's important to remember the maxim "The right tool for the right job." Your Samsung is a great choice for watching movies, playing games, and general computer usage. The Sony is much better suited for coding and doing color graded work.
 
I also do primarily web/software development, and have been going back and forth on what to buy to replace my aging 2 dell 30" setup. I ended up buying the samsung UN43KU7500, overall I'm pretty happy with it. I ended up hanging it flat against the wall, with a small desk in front of it. I haven't noticed any trailing issues, as reported in the 6xxx series, the colors look great considering that technically the panel is 8bit and not like the KS, I don't see any bleeding, angles are great. The only real negatives that I'd say are the curve on the glass is pretty noticeable, I can't decide if i like it or not when doing programing. Outside of that, it's just a lack of a Displayport...

On a side note, quality control at samsung is slacking. First one I got had a cluster of dead pixels, about 10 on the left side, stuck in black. I ended up getting a replacement for that one. Which makes me really glad I didn't end up going with a Wasabi Mango which would have been more difficult to return.
 
43" and 49" .... 6" is not going to make or break you.

Also, it's mental question more than anything. Meaning, most of you would have 3 displays or 4, 2 on top of one another if given the chance / budget. Not all but most. The question then becomes, do I want bezels all in my face or not. My 49" KS8000 sets the same distance from me as any other monitor would.

It's not that it's too big, it's just that, it doesn't have bezels all over the place and people are allowing themselves to be confused on that point. I have display fusion. Anytime I need boarder-less 1080p windows with it's own task bar and start menu, it's just a mouse click away.

fvnwomS.jpg
 
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That's a nice looking setup SixFootDuo.

I'm not completely against 49" (not including the bezel). If the choice was between 40" and 49", I would pick 49". If I was gaming, I would prefer the 49". Over a year ago, I was ready to buy a 48" Samsung, but I was waiting for other reasons. Now that 43"s are available, I think that's closer to perfect for what I will use it for, especially in an IPS panel.
 
But you can get a KS8500 at 49" with full HDR 10 and a 10 bit panel vs HDR premium and a 8 bit panel in a KU7500
 
I wish the KS8500 was available at 43". Not because of space, as I mentioned above, but mostly due to PPI. For those of you working with this TV how is the PPI looking for desktop use? My viewing distance will be 90-1.2m if I get it.
Coming from a 30" 2560X1600 monitor there is a difference of around 10PPI between the two (100 vs 90 for the 49"). Do you think it would be noticeable and an indicator of lesser quality?

On the other hand colors, contrast and mostly everything else will be better bar the viewing angles which honestly will not stop me from getting it.

BTW, SixFootDuo could you do a quick test please? Display some code or text in bright and dark backgrounds and try some viewing angles if you can. Do you notice discoloration? Bluriness? If so at what angles? Thanks in advance.
 
My viewing distance to my 40" is about 30" at home and about 24" from my 32" 4K at the office. I went from a 27" 1440p at both location. The 32" at the office is fine. The fonts can get a bit small at home (I'm old). I would have gone with a 43" if there was one available last year. I don't think you'll notice the PPI drop.
 
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The 2015 Philips BDM4065UC seemed to have less issues than its 43" successor, I would say see if you can still find one as it checks a lot of your boxes. Unfortunately looking around I don't see it in stock anywhere.:(

I'd consider 32" as well. I use a 4k 32" display at work with no scaling. You have a lot more options for pro monitors in that size.
 
If you're talking about color shift, yes I do see that but only if I am standing off to the side. It's a non-issue front and center or if you have friends off to the side, left or right of you.

There is no blurriness, everything remains razor sharp. The color shift is not a degradation of color but rather some colors take on a different hue. Very minor. Again, this is off to the side at what I would consider an extreme sitting arrangement that would be uncomfortable to most people.
 
SixFootDuo, thanks for the feedback.

Another issues that I am looking into right no is how possible it is to calibrate for sRGB output with these TVs.
Is it true that while in PC mode you don't have the options to adjust certain settings? If so how can one calibrate a TV for optimum sRGB display?
 
Wiz33 said:
But you can get a KS8500 at 49" with full HDR 10 and a 10 bit panel vs HDR premium and a 8 bit panel in a KU7500
Click to expand...
If you are running ycbcr 4:4:4 60hz from a PC you will get 8bit not 10bit range.

Having the KS8000 for a week now it would be nice to sit a little further back or have had a slightly smaller screen than 49". I agree with killerbob that there is some slight color shifting noticeable when you are using this as a PC monitor and have windows up in the corners or way off to the side. It isn't extreme and for my use doesn't really bother me. But it is there and if I had windows all over the place and had to actually use every bit of the real estate for hours on end it could be an issue. Any large VA panel will have that when used in this manner so it isn't a KS8000 centric problem.

For light productivity use (web browsing, email, etc.), games, and movies viewed from the couch it is excellent.
 
Riptide_NVN said:
If you are running ycbcr 4:4:4 60hz from a PC you will get 8bit not 10bit range.

Having the KS8000 for a week now it would be nice to sit a little further back or have had a slightly smaller screen than 49". I agree with killerbob that there is some slight color shifting noticeable when you are using this as a PC monitor and have windows up in the corners or way off to the side. It isn't extreme and for my use doesn't really bother me. But it is there and if I had windows all over the place and had to actually use every bit of the real estate for hours on end it could be an issue. Any large VA panel will have that when used in this manner so it isn't a KS8000 centric problem.

For light productivity use (web browsing, email, etc.), games, and movies viewed from the couch it is excellent.
Click to expand...

That's why I spent the difference for the curved version. I strongly disagree with those that said a curved screen is only cosmetic and have no actual function. While that may be true for TV application at a distance, the curved screen does make quite a differencee if you use it on a desktop at close viewing distance. As to the 10 bit screen, It won't make much difference with PC use but will give better color if you ever get a UHD Bluray player or the newer consoles or if you use the TV's streaming apps like Netlix, Amazon, etc.
 
That makes sense to me. If they had a 40-43" version of the KS8000 that may have also helped with the uniformity issues and saved some money too. I didn't need a 49" screen though it is certainly nice for viewing content 6' back from the couch.
 
Riptide_NVN said:
That makes sense to me. If they had a 40-43" version of the KS8000 that may have also helped with the uniformity issues and saved some money too. I didn't need a 49" screen though it is certainly nice for viewing content 6' back from the couch.
Click to expand...

You must be younger than me and have better eyesight. I already feel that the 40" was a bit small at 32" without increasing the font size (already have to go to 125% on some webpages). I have room to place a 49" further back on my desk if I can mount my center speaker on the wall above it. I'll have to give that some thought.
 
Suppose it is a bit of a tradeoff. Text would be smaller yet there would be less movement of the eye straining around to see the corners on a relatively "giant" screen. Trading strain in movement of the eye for strain in focus. Like a lot of things they are best judged with first hand experience. Easier said than done in these situations.
 
Can some KS8000 owner please check what calibration settings are available while in "PC Mode"?

Are those available:

Color
Tint
Brightness
Contrast
10-point white balance

I am trying to figure out whether the display can be properly calibrated to accurately display sRGB while used as a monitor and can't find any confirmation anywhere.


I kinda feel lost again searching for a monitor. WTH is going on with display manufacturers these days.
 
JargonGR said:
Can some KS8000 owner please check what calibration settings are available while in "PC Mode"?

Are those available:

Color
Tint
Brightness
Contrast
10-point white balance

I am trying to figure out whether the display can be properly calibrated to accurately display sRGB while used as a monitor and can't find any confirmation anywhere.


I kinda feel lost again searching for a monitor. WTH is going on with display manufacturers these days.
Click to expand...

I haven't tried that but I know you have access to the full setting menu when you run your PC through a 4K capable receiver as the input will not longer see that it's connected to a PC
 
Riptide_NVN said:
Suppose it is a bit of a tradeoff. Text would be smaller yet there would be less movement of the eye straining around to see the corners on a relatively "giant" screen. Trading strain in movement of the eye for strain in focus. Like a lot of things they are best judged with first hand experience. Easier said than done in these situations.
Click to expand...

Guess it also depends on how much and what kind of games you play. I can see movement strain if you so a lot of fast action gaming but maybe getting sliding keyboard/mouse tray will let you seat back while gaming and move back up closer during work.
 
Hmmm this opens an other "can of worms" though. Despite needing a 4K receiver just to use your PC other issues like extra lag and additional signal processing have to be accounted for.

Well it seems that the only option then is to find a way to access the service menu and fix the settings there. I am waiting some feedback from other threads elsewhere on this since somebody bought this for PC use on AVS and could not calibrate it properly when in "PC Mode" because options were not available.

Oh well, it is a TV after all and not a pro monitor that these are required. I was hoping at least sRGB compliance would be easy to achieve since the panel supports much higher than this.

I am starting to believe that the only way to get a huge desktop AND color accuracy is to use two monitors. One large 4K for space and a smaller 24" professional one for color accuracy. Unless they bring out a 37-40" pro 4K monitor that does not cost $0000..
 
JargonGR said:
Hmmm this opens an other "can of worms" though. Despite needing a 4K receiver just to use your PC other issues like extra lag and additional signal processing have to be accounted for.

Well it seems that the only option then is to find a way to access the service menu and fix the settings there. I am waiting some feedback from other threads elsewhere on this since somebody bought this for PC use on AVS and could not calibrate it properly when in "PC Mode" because options were not available.

Oh well, it is a TV after all and not a pro monitor that these are required. I was hoping at least sRGB compliance would be easy to achieve since the panel supports much higher than this.

I am starting to believe that the only way to get a huge desktop AND color accuracy is to use two monitors. One large 4K for space and a smaller 24" professional one for color accuracy. Unless they bring out a 37-40" pro 4K monitor that does not cost $0000..
Click to expand...

Possible solution I found over at AVS forum:

"I am in the same boat but with a PC. I talked with tech support and to fix the dimming issue you have to go to eco settings and turn off the first two options. They said if it is a PC you will not get the full options. I'm still hung up on the tv not triggering 5.1 on the PC.

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk
After looking at your Laptop model you should be able to tell your Nvidia GTX 1070 to output TV resolutions which will fix your problem. I can go into my main PC's Nvidia Control Panel and choose TV resolutions vs PC resolutions but the option is only there when I have it connected to my TV. A laptop may be slightly different since you are actually using dual monitors (essentially). Not having a Nvidia laptop to test it is difficult to do more than point you in the right direction but the answer to your problem is in Nvidia Control Panel."
 
Well it sounds promising but according to rtings Q&A on the KS8000 when a PC is connected the following options are not available:


From RTINGS

On the KS8000, when 'Game' mode in enabled the following options are unavailable.

  • Digital Clean View
  • Auto Motion Plus
  • HDMI Black Level
  • 10 Point White Balance
  • RGB Only Mode
When an input is labelled PC, it is not possible to enable 'Game' or 'HDR+' mode. The picture modes are limited to 'Standard' and 'Dynamic', and the following settings are unavailable.

  • Color
  • Tint
  • Digital Clean View
  • Auto Motion Plus
  • HDMI Black Level
  • Dynamic Contrast
  • 10 Point White Balance
  • RGB Only Mode
  • Color Space


This means no way to calibrate properly for any work that color accuracy is required. Unless one gains access to the Hidden Service Menu and changes the settings there - something that is dangerous if you don't know what you are doing. I have yet to find any info on how to get to the service menu.


Can any owner of this set confirm the above?
 
This is not correct. You can now change to HDR in any mode or game mode maybe PC mode I think all 3 now. There have been a lot of firmware improvements. I do not have the list in front of me,

I run in console mode for the latency benefits. I have it calibrated and it's a just so amazing and vibrant. Not going over the top here, it truly is.
 
That is good but SixFootDuo but could you please check what is available when in PC mode?

Of specific importance are the following:


  • Color
  • Tint
  • Dynamic Contrast
  • 10 Point White Balance
  • Color Space

Yet, I know for sure that 10bit color @ 60Hz is not possible through HDMI either (only Display Port).


Well as I said, I don't expect the feature and possibilities of a professional monitor but unless it can be calibrated precisely to at elast 100% sRGB then it is useless for proper color proofing and print work.

Maybe I should also consider getting the Asus along with a pair of presbyopia glasses or move it closer at 40cm.
 
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