42" OLED MASTER THREAD

Archaea

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Uniformity will vary from unit to unit. It is possible that you got one with worst than average uniformity, or you could be more sensitive to it, or perhaps it's both. Either way if it really bothers you in day to day normal use I would suggest exchanging it for a another one and see if it's any better to live with before throwing in the towel.
F56B0090-ABF2-4FE1-A24D-D7C19D6F7AC3.jpeg


I’ll give it a bit of time to break in, but yeah, this is disappointing otherwise.
 

elvn

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Also sitting at improper viewing distances (e.g. sitting too close or off center) can exacerbate "off angle" issues on some panels, especially VA screens but still applies to uniformity at the sides issues on oleds.

.........................................

60 PPD , 64 deg viewing angle at 4k <--- pushes the extents of the screen outside of human viewpoint a bit

48" 4k screen at ~ 33.5" away
42" 4k screen at ~ 29" away

80 PPD , 48 deg viewing angle at 4k <--- forms an ~equilaterial triangle/pyramid viewing angle with the screen as the base.

48" 4k screen at ~ 47" away
42" 4k screen at ~ 41" away

.............................................

Like rtings 48cx review said:

Like most OLED TVs, the LG 48 CX OLED has very wide horizontal viewing angles. However, colors shift quickly when moving off-center. This makes the colors appear inaccurate at the sides when sitting up close and when viewing from the side, which isn't ideal for content creation.
 
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elvn

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The problem is that interpolation is going to cause added input latency as already demonstrated by multiple sources like DF and HUB which means it's only going to be 100% viable for single player games. And before you start talking about server tick rates and how an extra +20-30ms of input latency isn't going to affect your performance unless you are playing on a LAN, you should probably watch this video and try out the test:

I'm pretty certain the majority of people will be able to notice an increase of 20-30ms input lag even if they are not a seasoned competitive player. It's not about "you seeing an enemy 30ms later" or "your input to the game server being behind by 30ms or w/e" it's about the your hand-eye coordination that's now being thrown off by the interpolation lag.


Nvidia's (ever improving?) AI processing hardware isn't on the displays themselves. Perhaps there is some way they could offload those chips and software onto the displays at some point to sidestep the port and cable bandwidth hurdle to 1000fpsHz. That is specifically, the frame insertion, and potentially multiple insertion/duplication/time warping of 5x to 8x on a good frame rate foundation to start with.

Even without that, maybe doubling up dp2.0 cables or something , that could get (~77x2) 154 Gbps of data to the display.. and displayport DSC 2:1 compression rather than 3:1, (and maybe DLSS of 4k to 8k on a 8k display). That could maybe get 4k 10bit 1000fpsHz+ at ~ 299 Gbit/second. (dp2.0 at ~ 77 Gbpsx2 ports/cables-> 154 Gbps, x2 DSC 2:1 -> 308 Gbps ? ) :D

I'd take 120fps x 4 inserted/timewarped to ~ 480Hz for now even (compressed with DSC 2:1 to fit).

......................

Max. Data Rate Reference Table:

DisplayPort 2.0 77.37 Gbit/s

DisplayPort 1.3–1.4 25.92 Gbit/s

DisplayPort 1.2 17.28 Gbit/s

DisplayPort 1.0–1.1 8.64 Gbit/s

HDMI 2.1 41.92 Gbit/s

HDMI 2.0 14.40 Gbit/s

HDMI 1.3–1.4 8.16 Gbit/s

HDMI 1.0–1.2 3.96 Gbit/s

DVI 7.92 Gbit/s

Thunderbolt 3 34.56 Gbit/s

Thunderbolt 2 17.28 Gbit/s

Thunderbolt 8.64 Gbit/s

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
3840 x 2160 500fpsHz = 12 bit: 4,147,200,000 pixels/second = 174.18 Gbit/second, 10bit: 149.30 Gbps

3840 x 2160 1000fpsHz = 12bit: 8,294,400,000 pixels/second = 348.36 Gbps , 10bit: 298.60 Gbps Gbps

8k 500fpsHz = 12 bit: 16,588,800,000 pixels/second = 696.73 Gbps , 10bit: 597.20 Gbps

8k 1000fpsHz = 12bit: 1,393.46 Gbps, 10 bit: 1,194.39 Gbps
 
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Happy Hopping

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I got a LG C2 42" OLED from Amazon during the recent prime sale and hooked it up tonight. It has a blue tinge on left and right on a white screen with a white background like a browser or notepad, and I can even see it a bit on this hardforum page as the white text on the far left and far right is slightly different color than the white text in the center.

Here’s a white notepad for reference

View attachment 518312

Is white uniformity imperfection something that is normal on these OLED displays? It isn't terrible, and maybe I'm being too picky, but I'm not enamored about that aspect of this monitor. Otherwise it looks fantastic! Black levels, coming from a 34" Alienware IPS LCD are in a different league all together.

Is this something that might improve with a bit of break-in or would you return it? If I wasn’t using it as a desktop monitor I doubt I’d ever notice with streaming media and cinema type content.

This is my first OLED and I’m not sure how picky I should be about uniformity — I’m thinking this might be something that bothers me a bit though and disparages my ongoing enjoyment of the OLED monitor if I can’t get it fixed.
I have a regular LED LCD monitor a 43" Viewsonic VX series, viewing your upload, it's as you describe it, a somehow noticeable blue on the side, and white at the center. Now, w/ or w/o a OLED monitor, in the past 10 to 20 yr., I never set my screen to white, because I find white very bright and hurtful to my eyes. I type a lot of document and some spreadsheet, so the whole page of foreground where the text goes is set to beige and I really like it
 

elvn

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I have a regular LED LCD monitor a 43" Viewsonic VX series, viewing your upload, it's as you describe it, a somehow noticeable blue on the side, and white at the center. Now, w/ or w/o a OLED monitor, in the past 10 to 20 yr., I never set my screen to white, because I find white very bright and hurtful to my eyes. I type a lot of document and some spreadsheet, so the whole page of foreground where the text goes is set to beige and I really like it


I use both of these addons on firefox and chrome for a quick click. It remembers on a site by site basis.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/site-color-changer/


247983.png


. . . .

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/turn-off-the-lights/

Turn off the lights works on all pages it's not just a youtube thing. I don't even use it for youtube. You can set the overlay opacity to a lot lighter than what is shown below so that it just dims the page a little. You can also set it so that you can click through the layer. You can blacklist/whitelist pages you visit regularly, or you can just click the lightbulb on and off whenever you feel like it. I have mine set to automatically activate on every page by default (unless that page is whitelisted).



184416.png

. . . .

If you change the theme of firefox to dark theme it will also stop it from flashing the background white in between every page load. There are a few other ways to eliminate the flash but that is an easy way.

I type a lot of document and some spreadsheet, so the whole page of foreground where the text goes is set to beige and I really like it

That's definitely a good idea. I do similar with apps.

You can also use dark windows themes. I also use 3rd party notepad alternatives which can use custom background colors.

3rd party file browser "Directory Opus" too which has a ton of customization options including practically every category of item's color. Directory Opus is paid but there are free alternatives.

. . . . .

When using desktop/apps you can switch the tv to a different set of named settings set up with lower peak brightness (and even contrast a bit for reading text if that suits you). That will also keep the display below the ABL threshold. You could set up color profiles in windows too if your display doesn't have that kind of functionality, or use the brightness slider.

. . . . . ..

I’ll give it a bit of time to break in, but yeah, this is disappointing otherwise.

How far away from the screen are your eyeballs?

When you sit closer to "off angle" uniformity suffering displays like VA and OLED, you will cause the issue to be more noticeable. The closer you sit, the larger the off color or shaded area on the sides will be - much like sitting off center on a lot of displays, viewing from an angle. You technically are viewing the sides of the screen from an angle when sitting too close. There is a sweet spot in the middle at a fair distance.


Like rtings 48cx review said:

Like most OLED TVs, the LG 48 CX OLED has very wide horizontal viewing angles. However, colors shift quickly when moving off-center. This makes the colors appear inaccurate at the sides when sitting up close and when viewing from the side, which isn't ideal for content creation.

.........................................

60 PPD , 64 deg viewing angle at 4k <--- pushes the extents of the screen outside of human viewpoint a bit compromising the viewing angle

48" 4k screen at ~ 33.5" away
42" 4k screen at ~ 29" away

80 PPD , 48 deg viewing angle at 4k <--- forms an ~equilaterial triangle/pyramid viewing angle with the screen as the base.

48" 4k screen at ~ 47" away
42" 4k screen at ~ 41" away

.............................................
 
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Archaea

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I use both of these addons on firefox and chrome for a quick click. It remembers on a site by site basis.


. . . .

If you change the theme of firefox to dark theme it will also stop it from flashing the background white in between every page load. There are a few other ways to eliminate the flash but that is an easy way.



That's definitely a good idea. I do similar with apps.

You can also use dark windows themes. I also use 3rd party notepad alternatives which can use custom background colors.

3rd party file browser "Directory Opus" too which has a ton of customization options including practically every category of item's color. Directory Opus is paid but there are free alternatives.

. . . . .

When using desktop/apps you can switch the tv to a different set of named settings set up with lower peak brightness (and even contrast a bit for reading text if that suits you). That will also keep the display below the ABL threshold. You could set up color profiles in windows too if your display doesn't have that kind of functionality, or use the brightness slider.

. . . . . ..



How far away from the screen are your eyeballs?

When you sit closer to "off angle" uniformity suffering displays like VA and OLED, you will cause the issue to be more noticeable. The closer you sit, the larger the off color or shaded area on the sides will be - much like sitting off center on a lot of displays, viewing from an angle. You technically are viewing the sides of the screen from an angle when sitting too close. There is a sweet spot in the middle at a fair distance.


Like rtings 48cx review said:



.........................................

60 PPD , 64 deg viewing angle at 4k <--- pushes the extents of the screen outside of human viewpoint a bit compromising the viewing angle

48" 4k screen at ~ 33.5" away
42" 4k screen at ~ 29" away

80 PPD , 48 deg viewing angle at 4k <--- forms an ~equilaterial triangle/pyramid viewing angle with the screen as the base.

48" 4k screen at ~ 47" away
42" 4k screen at ~ 41" away

.............................................
Anywhere I walk in the room, the blue tint is on the sides. I tried that yesterday as a test.

I’ll be juggling returns before I would start trying to accommodate stopping using single colors. (White for instance). The black levels are glorious on the OLED, but they are only one characteristic of a monitor and there are other characteristics that matter. I am not one who thinks it is the single most important characteristic and is willing to change my use cases to accommodate.

The Alienware 34” QD-OLED a friend has and says his specimen is perfect with no color uniformity issues. If LG cannot deliver such an experience, then perhaps Alienware or Samsung can.

I do appreciate you taking the time to share some suggestions! About as far as I’m willing to take accommodations however is to try to “break in” the panel with the first 100 hours or so of bright vidid content YouTube playback like some have recommended to see if that fixes it. If not it’s going back. I did change my theme to dark, which I normally don’t like — but I’m not going to try to wrestle all my software preferences and defaults to cover a flaw in an expensive display device. Personally speaking.
 

elvn

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before I would start trying to accommodate stopping using single colors.

I was just posting that in reply to HappyHopping's grey background comment in general for any screen comfort wise.

Anywhere I walk in the room, the blue tint is on the sides. I tried that yesterday as a test.

Yeah I'd try centered on screen viewing angle/your head to the center of the screen at 36" and 41" away to your eyeballs, with a measuring tape, and see what it looks like at those particular distances.

Otherwise you are sitting at an off angle by sitting too close to the screen. The closer you sit, the larger the off angle uniformity issues will grow on the screen.

A lot of people buy larger oleds and try to use them in "up against the wall like a bookshelf" or "upright piano with sheet music" type setups. At those nearer distances you end up with lower PPD and thus text fringing and graphics aliasing, and will have compromised viewing angles for seeing the screen extents as well as exacerbating any viewing angle uniformity issues.

You might have a particularly bad one though uniformity wise idk.

Regardless these are really media and gaming displays - that some try to use square peg in a round hole as static desktop/app displays with tradeoffs. If you need a more accurate monitor that isn't going to suffer aggressive ABL dimming in HDR content viewing/authoring/editing etc. there are 32inch 1600nit pro art screens. Even then, no matter what you get there are going to be some tradeoffs of some sort - but in this case it's really not designed to be a static desktop/app monitor in the first place.
 
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Happy Hopping

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Messages
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I use both of these addons on firefox and chrome for a quick click. It remembers on a site by site basis.


. . . .

If you change the theme of firefox to dark theme it will also stop it from flashing the background white in between every page load. There are a few other ways to eliminate the flash but that is an easy way.



That's definitely a good idea. I do similar with apps.

You can also use dark windows themes. I also use 3rd party notepad alternatives which can use custom background colors.

3rd party file browser "Directory Opus" too which has a ton of customization options including practically every category of item's color. Directory Opus is paid but there are free alternatives.

. . . . .

When using desktop/apps you can switch the tv to a different set of named settings set up with lower peak brightness (and even contrast a bit for reading text if that suits you). That will also keep the display below the ABL threshold. You could set up color profiles in windows too if your display doesn't have that kind of functionality, or use the brightness slider.

. . . . . ..



How far away from the screen are your eyeballs?

When you sit closer to "off angle" uniformity suffering displays like VA and OLED, you will cause the issue to be more noticeable. The closer you sit, the larger the off color or shaded area on the sides will be - much like sitting off center on a lot of displays, viewing from an angle. You technically are viewing the sides of the screen from an angle when sitting too close. There is a sweet spot in the middle at a fair distance.


Like rtings 48cx review said:



.........................................

60 PPD , 64 deg viewing angle at 4k <--- pushes the extents of the screen outside of human viewpoint a bit compromising the viewing angle

48" 4k screen at ~ 33.5" away
42" 4k screen at ~ 29" away

80 PPD , 48 deg viewing angle at 4k <--- forms an ~equilaterial triangle/pyramid viewing angle with the screen as the base.

48" 4k screen at ~ 47" away
42" 4k screen at ~ 41" away

.............................................
you actually use that software: Directory Opus? I hate that so much. Try total commander, or Tree Size Free Portable. Total commander is better.

With beige, I use Hue = 31, Sat = 240, Lun = 225, try it out
 

noko

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Bestbuy and Amazon has the LG 42" OLED C2 for $999. Very tempting!

My 3090 HDMI 2.1 port maybe not up to snuff. Won't drive a Sony 50" X90J at 120 hz. Working with EVGA to resolve. 2 cables that worked fine with the TV and a Samsung 120hz with the 6900XT and 3080TI does not work with the 3090. Two new HDMI 2.1 cables coming today.

Price now looks worth it.
 

Archaea

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Messages
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Bestbuy and Amazon has the LG 42" OLED C2 for $999. Very tempting!

My 3090 HDMI 2.1 port maybe not up to snuff. Won't drive a Sony 50" X90J at 120 hz. Working with EVGA to resolve. 2 cables that worked fine with the TV and a Samsung 120hz with the 6900XT and 3080TI does not work with the 3090. Two new HDMI 2.1 cables coming today.

Price now looks worth it.
It’s truly an amazing display (other than the tint/uniformity issue I have). First impressions for media content is jaw dropping.
 

noko

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It’s truly an amazing display (other than the tint/uniformity issue I have). First impressions for media content is jaw dropping.
May have to get it, took the 50" out of the bedroom since wife never used it. Now she wants it back in the bedroom, lol.
 

elvn

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you actually use that software: Directory Opus? I hate that so much. Try total commander, or Tree Size Free Portable. Total commander is better.

With beige, I use Hue = 31, Sat = 240, Lun = 225, try it out

Opus is great. It can do a ton of things. It's almost like it's own OS. I've been using it for a very long time, set up in a minimalist fashion in dual pane but with a bunch of useful functions/buttons, , folders and directories as favorites, collections, etc. Very handy renaming tools (one of them I like to use is "rename file to parent" folder name but retain the file suffix), batch operating on files, more robust and worry free file movement and "auto pilot", and built in ftp. Flat view is very handy for operating on multiple file types that are buried in separate folders. Has had multiple tabs tabbed dual pane browsing forever, open folder as a tab in other pane, duplicate tab, open drop down favorite selection in new tab, etc. etc. Ctrl+wheel sizing. Custom fonts and colors, icons, interface elements and sizings. Practically everything can be customized. It has scripting and user libraries of tools, a million things it can do by default.. way too much to describe here. If you don't take the time to learn some of directory opus' features and especially take the time to custom configure it to your liking, you aren't getting a fair impression of what it can do for you.

I've used total commander before, that is one of the other options I was talking about. They are both great, some prefer one or the other due to feature sets. To each his own though. Kind of a derail topic.

Directory Opus
"The best file manager for power users"

+Multi-threading
+FTP features
+Tabbed browsing
+Filter and sort

Like Total Commander, Directory Opus is as premium file manager – and it shows, and comes a very close second in this list. It has an attractive icon-led interface that's busier than Total Commander's, but can be pared down using the various customization options. This is where Directory Opus really shines – pretty much every aspect of its operation can be tweaked and tuned to suit your needs.

It's extremely fast too, using multi-threading for faster processing and enabling you to queue and manage operations. There are various useful features, such as multi-pane opening and tabbed browsing, as well as quickly filter or sort your files and folders.

There are two versions of Directory Opus, Light and Pro. Both make managing your files far easier, but Pro is worth the extra outlay thanks the the ability to replace File Explorer – for everything, or just specific folders.

Directory Opus Pro isn't just a file manager, it also serves as an FTP client and file compression tool. Its interface is customizable interface than that of its lower-priced counterpart, it offers integrated metadata editing, and it can save complex search terms as macros for future use.

...
When comparing Total Commander vs Directory Opus, the Slant community recommends Directory Opus for most people. In the question“What are the best file managers for Windows?” Directory Opus is ranked 2nd while Total Commander is ranked 4th. The most important reason people chose Directory Opus is:
Allows customizing toolbars and keyboard hotkeys. Has a full scripting interface that allows in-depth customization options.

Extensive index of features and functions here: https://www.gpsoft.com.au/help/opus12/index.html#!Documents/Directory_Opus_12.htm

Some other features of Opus but it can do a ton of other things:

Batch rename files
Dual pane support
File-sync
Integrated Search
Assignment of comments to files
Duplicate File Finder
File management
Flat view
Folder Size
Tagging
Cross-platform
Multi-tabs
TC plug-in's support
Support for FTP
Built-in player
Screenshot Tools
Teracopy integration
Built-in viewer
Console-based
File Compression
Prevents accidental move to folder tree
Batch processing
Ad-free
File Searching
Bookmark organization
Windows Compatible
Compression
Customizable
Drag n drop
Portable
Material design
Box.com integration
Dropbox integration
File Tagging
Color coding
File compression
 
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undertaker2k8

[H]ard|Gawd
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Messages
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Anywhere I walk in the room, the blue tint is on the sides. I tried that yesterday as a test.

I’ll be juggling returns before I would start trying to accommodate stopping using single colors. (White for instance). The black levels are glorious on the OLED, but they are only one characteristic of a monitor and there are other characteristics that matter. I am not one who thinks it is the single most important characteristic and is willing to change my use cases to accommodate.

The Alienware 34” QD-OLED a friend has and says his specimen is perfect with no color uniformity issues. If LG cannot deliver such an experience, then perhaps Alienware or Samsung can.

I do appreciate you taking the time to share some suggestions! About as far as I’m willing to take accommodations however is to try to “break in” the panel with the first 100 hours or so of bright vidid content YouTube playback like some have recommended to see if that fixes it. If not it’s going back. I did change my theme to dark, which I normally don’t like — but I’m not going to try to wrestle all my software preferences and defaults to cover a flaw in an expensive display device. Personally speaking.
My C2 42 from Costco had uniformity as good as the AW fwiw.
 

MistaSparkul

2[H]4U
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
2,409
Nvidia's (ever improving?) AI processing hardware isn't on the displays themselves. Perhaps there is some way they could offload those chips and software onto the displays at some point to sidestep the port and cable bandwidth hurdle to 1000fpsHz. That is specifically, the frame insertion, and potentially multiple insertion/duplication/time warping of 5x to 8x on a good frame rate foundation to start with.

Even without that, maybe doubling up dp2.0 cables or something , that could get (~77x2) 154 Gbps of data to the display.. and displayport DSC 2:1 compression rather than 3:1, (and maybe DLSS of 4k to 8k on a 8k display). That could maybe get 4k 10bit 1000fpsHz+ at ~ 299 Gbit/second. (dp2.0 at ~ 77 Gbpsx2 ports/cables-> 154 Gbps, x2 DSC 2:1 -> 308 Gbps ? ) :D

I'd take 120fps x 4 inserted/timewarped to ~ 480Hz for now even (compressed with DSC 2:1 to fit).

......................


. . . . . . .

How do you know that moving interpolation onto the displays will eliminate lag? IMO Whether or not they put it on displays I don't think that's going to change the current fact that interpolating frames will cause added input latency. And how do you know interpolating even more frames (4x-5x instead of 2x) will not increase lag even further? It would make sense to me that the more fake frames you are trying to generate, the more processing time that is going to take and hence increased input latency. Until any of this is proven, we need to assume that frame rate interpolation isn't the end all be all solution. Again I think it's a great idea for single player games, especially slow ones, but it's not something that can be used for competitive multiplayer gaming.
 
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Scottyl48

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Sooooo...how does the c2 OLED 42 inch look when your playing Skyrim/pathfinder/tomb raider? I have a 32 4k Aorus with a 3080. I care only about pic quality. Bestbuy has the TV/monitor for 999.99. worth it?
 

fbanget

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Question for those using the LG C2 as a PC Monitor (and really this is mostly a Windows 11 question): I've set me screensaver (with a blank screen) to kick in after 1 minute... but it rarely works. I have no idea why. Even if all my tasks are closed it still won't go to the screensaver. Any ideas? In the meantime I'm stuck closing the TV whenever I leave my desk, even for a few minutes.
 

elvn

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You'd see that I replied a lot in that thread for the Ark because it had initially piqued my interest.
It's PPD is borderline at that size even sitting at the 1000R, 1000mm, ~ 39.5" focal point of the curve. ( ~ 61+ PPD). Sitting any closer than that, where you might be ok turning your head side to side like a multi-monitor array when using desktop/apps rather than viewing the whole screen at the same time in gaming for example - and the PPD will be too low. One of the main features that supposedly justify it's $3500+ tax cost (other than the speakers I don't need) is the multi view but it can't do multiple hdmi inputs and it has some other bugginess besides. Samsung also doesn't support Dolby vision which is another negative to me. People who have it that have had oleds have said it not being oled is definitely a trade-off. Mini LED FALD backlights are not Micro LED emitters.

As much as I like the idea of the ark it would be better if it it was a 48" 1000R OLED where it would be over 70PPD sitting at the radius/focal point of the curve, and with multiple hdmi sources as different frames/tile layouts on the screen. The price is pretty ridiculous for what it is. If someday there was an 8k 55" version of something similar to the ark with multiple input sources working allowing for quad 4k tiles, etc.. (hopefully in OLED even), I'd be much more interested.

. . . .

For my media and gaming display - I don't think I could go back to a 27" screen at this point, or back from per pixel side by side contrast/color volume + infinite black depth. oled response time is also tiny which might come into play more on the roadmap to more extreme Hz and motion clarity. Larger screens (at decent PPD and view distances) have ability to run good uw resolution sizes too. Smaller screens would be a downgrade to me. As I said above, I want to go in the other direction with a large high PPD real estate where I can place and size things however I want.

This isn't a full review with a detailed HDR breakdown or anything but has some impressions:

https://www.techradar.com/reviews/innocn-27m2u-mini-led-monitor
The showstopper is the panel used; it supports 99% Adobe RGB, 99% DCI-P3 and 100% sRGB color gamuts which means that it scores highly on color reproduction and fidelity thanks to the MiniLED technology. That translates into clean, crisp whites, excellent viewing angles and superb color saturation and vibrancy. But this is no OLED; so black levels remain a little disappointing and color accuracy is merely middling. But this monitor still has great all round image quality given its price.

Mini LED is viable, especially for static desktop/app use but it still has some big tradeoffs. For one thing, it's a matte screen coating which I don't like, and the size is too small for my tastes as I indicated above.

"this is no OLED; so black levels remain a little disappointing and color accuracy is merely middling. But this monitor still"

"A little disappointing" is being kind there regarding black levels and per pixel side-by-side contrast and color volumes. "But still" is forgiving language. It'll have some blooming bright or dimming dark halo effect on fine details and contrasted edges/areas which would be annoying and would also lose some details. sbs contrast/color of OLED makes LEDs look poor by comparison especially for media and gaming content.
 
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zehoo

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 22, 2004
Messages
458
For my media and gaming display - I don't think I could go back to a 27" screen at this point
I’ve gone back to my 27” Eve for OW2 since I’m not quite happy enough with the input latency of my C2. (Maybe I have something set wrong). But for everything else the C2 is way better. Maybe if the PG42UQ issues get sorted I’ll grab one to go side by side with the C2 for multiplayer games.
 

kasakka

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Messages
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isn't mini LED out? why is it noone considers it at this thread?




The Ark is an overpriced TV with poor functionality. Too low res for its use case, no multi input support.

I will be interested in mini-LED when someone manages to make a well working one at 32-43" size but everything so far has had more compromises than LG OLED.
 

elvn

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Messages
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I’ve gone back to my 27” Eve for OW2 since I’m not quite happy enough with the input latency of my C2. (Maybe I have something set wrong). But for everything else the C2 is way better. Maybe if the PG42UQ issues get sorted I’ll grab one to go side by side with the C2 for multiplayer games.

I think the input lag only goes down to ~ 5.3 ms when you are running near to or at 120fps + 120Hz (120fpsHz). As your VRR frame rate rolls up and down using a lower frame rate average, the input lag gets up to 10.x at 60fpsHz.

Has to be PC mode too. That means the actual hdmi icon in the OSD has to be changed to PC. Any time you disconnect hdmi cables or lose their connection, unplug the tv, or do a fw update it will likely revert back so you'd have to switch the icon back to pc again. That and the named game picture mode.

Edit: I guess they updated the input lag numbers to show some other settings with some methodology.....

Rtings LG 48C2 *monitor* review . . . .

8.4 Input Lag
Native Resolution @ Max Hz 5.3 ms

Native Resolution @ 120Hz 5.3 ms

Native Resolution @ 60Hz 10.0 ms

Backlight Strobing (BFI) 30.0 ms

The LG C2 42 has low input lag for a responsive desktop experience, as long as you're in the 'Game Optimizer' Picture Mode with the input set to 'PC' and Prevent Input Delay set to 'Boost'. Setting Prevent Input Delay to 'Standard' instead of 'Boost' increases the input lag, but it's still useable for gaming. The BFI input lag is at 60Hz with Prevent Input Delay set to 'Standard', which is why it's much higher than with BFI disabled.


You can also see the input lag results from other settings with 4k @ 120Hz:
  • Prevent Input Delay on Standard: 13.6 ms
  • VRR disabled: 5.2 ms
  • Game Optimizer disabled: 13.7 ms
  • Outside Game Mode but in PC Mode: 13.6 ms
  • In Game Mode but outside PC Mode: 47.8 ms
 
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elvn

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How do you know that moving interpolation onto the displays will eliminate lag? IMO Whether or not they put it on displays I don't think that's going to change the current fact that interpolating frames will cause added input latency. And how do you know interpolating even more frames (4x-5x instead of 2x) will not increase lag even further? It would make sense to me that the more fake frames you are trying to generate, the more processing time that is going to take and hence increased input latency. Until any of this is proven, we need to assume that frame rate interpolation isn't the end all be all solution. Again I think it's a great idea for single player games, especially slow ones, but it's not something that can be used for competitive multiplayer gaming.

G-sync doubles the frame rate at 30fps and less. VRR and free-sync premium also double low rates. Some VR headsets use time warp to double 45 fps and less to 90fps too. So perhaps it could be some kind of (AI) frame multiplication on the top end instead rather than every single added frame being a "tween" frame or manufactured~interpolated frame.

I was thinking that moving that type of tech onto the display would bypass the limitations of the port and cable bandwidths. Once you multiply or frame insert a bunch of frames, or even upscale 1440p to 4k or 4k to 8k, the ports, cables and screen don't know the difference. You fatten up the Gbps rate on the pc too much and it won't fit through the ports and pipes anymore. If you sent a ~ 4k 120 - 125fps signal over hdmi or a 200fps one over dp, you could fatten it up ~ 125fps x8 or 200fps x5 on the screen itself to hit 1000fps on a 1000Hz OLED. Could also upscale it to 8k if it was on a 8k screen.

That's the type of AI frame increase I'd hope for because otherwise, (outside of large DSC improvements I guess?) it would likely take many years longer for gpu power, ports and cables to catch up (to the 1000Hz an oled is technically capable of response time wise already).

Max. Data Rate Reference Table:

DisplayPort 2.0 77.37 Gbit/s

DisplayPort 1.3–1.4 25.92 Gbit/s

DisplayPort 1.2 17.28 Gbit/s

DisplayPort 1.0–1.1 8.64 Gbit/s

HDMI 2.1 41.92 Gbit/s

HDMI 2.0 14.40 Gbit/s

HDMI 1.3–1.4 8.16 Gbit/s

HDMI 1.0–1.2 3.96 Gbit/s

DVI 7.92 Gbit/s

Thunderbolt 3 34.56 Gbit/s

Thunderbolt 2 17.28 Gbit/s

Thunderbolt 8.64 Gbit/s

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . .

3840 x 2160 500fpsHz = 12 bit: 4,147,200,000 pixels/second = 174.18 Gbit/second, 10bit: 149.30 Gbps

3840 x 2160 1000fpsHz = 12bit: 8,294,400,000 pixels/second = 348.36 Gbps , 10bit: 298.60 Gbps Gbps

8k 500fpsHz = 12 bit: 16,588,800,000 pixels/second = 696.73 Gbps , 10bit: 597.20 Gbps

8k 1000fpsHz = 12bit: 1,393.46 Gbps, 10 bit: 1,194.39 Gbps
 
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MistaSparkul

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G-sync doubles the frame rate at 30fps and less. VRR and free-sync premium also double low rates. Some VR headsets use time warp to double 45 fps and less to 90fps too. So perhaps it could be some kind of (AI) frame multiplication on the top end instead rather than every single added frame being a "tween" frame or manufactured~interpolated frame.

I was thinking that moving that type of tech onto the display would bypass the limitations of the port and cable bandwidths. Once you multiply or frame insert a bunch of frames, or even upscale 1440p to 4k or 4k to 8k, the ports, cables and screen don't know the difference. You fatten up the Gbps rate on the pc too much and it won't fit through the ports and pipes anymore. If you sent a ~ 4k 120 - 125fps signal over hdmi or a 200fps one over dp, you could fatten it up ~ 125fps x8 or 200fps x5 on the screen itself to hit 1000fps on a 1000Hz OLED. Could also upscale it to 8k if it was on a 8k screen.

That's the type of AI frame increase I'd hope for because otherwise, (outside of large DSC improvements I guess?) it would likely take many years longer for gpu power, ports and cables to catch up (to the 1000Hz an oled is technically capable of response time wise already).


. . . . . . .

Gsync does not double your frame rate. What you are describing is just LFC. It does not magically turn 25fps into 50fps. What it does is set the refresh rate to be double or triple etc etc. of the frame rate if it's below 30. So you getting 25fps in a game simply means the refresh rate is 50Hz. There is no frame rate doubling going on. 25fps is still 25fps.
 

elvn

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Gsync does not double your frame rate. What you are describing is just LFC. It does not magically turn 25fps into 50fps. What it does is set the refresh rate to be double or triple etc etc. of the frame rate if it's below 30. So you getting 25fps in a game simply means the refresh rate is 50Hz. There is no frame rate doubling going on. 25fps is still 25fps.

Yes I didn't mean to imply that it adds adds a new unique frame.

I'm saying that in relation to the Hz, repeats of frames or refreshes for very high refresh rates (up to 1000Hz) could cut the blur down or another way to say it - increases motion clarity, not that it adds motion definition out of nothing. (Frame insertion attempts to do that with AI though, and time warping also uses a type of prediction for doubling 45fpsHz to 90). LFC is pretty much doubling the frames or cells drawn, it's just not changing them. I guess I could have worded it better.


LFC simply tries to predict a repeat-refresh to occur between two frames. And as you see in high speed video of LCD refreshing, www.blurbusters.com/scanout -- it takes 1/240sec to refresh all pixels (in a top-to-bottom fadesweep) = a monitor busy for 4.2 milliseconds refreshing a single 240Hz refresh cycle. This will remain constant a lower refresh rates on a VRR monitor, so even at 50 frames per second, the monitor still only needs 1/240sec to refresh.

LFC algorithms are very reliable with steady low frame rates, because it's easy to predict a repeat-refresh right in between. A repeat-refresh in an ideal situation is a no-operation (you see no visible effect on the screen because an image is being replaced by a duplicate image, so you can't tell LFC from non-LFC)

But LFC fails when frametimes vary a lot, so sometimes the repeat refresh starts, then the game finishes rendering a frame, and then suddenly the game is waiting for the monitor to finish repeat-refreshing (an old frame) before it can display the new frame. Thus, stutter. The good news is that this becomes less at higher Hz.

The LFC collision window is always max-Hz. (A frame-finish-rendering being forced to wait for a monitor-still-busy-repeat-refreshing). So the higher the VRR Hz, the smaller the LFC collision window is. On a 48Hz-240Hz VRR monitor, the LFC frame-vs-rerefresh collision window creates a maximum of 4.2ms (1/240sec) stutter in the worst-case scenario. The average LFC collision will be the halfpoint of that since the stutter error will be between [0...4.2ms]. Now if you got a lower maximum Hz such as 144Hz, your LFC collision window would be 6.9ms (1/144sec), so LFC stutters are worse on a 144Hz monitor than 240Hz monitor. So, if you're so worried about LFC stutter, make sure your max-Hz is higher to compensate.

Now if you buy that new 360 Hz monitor (future model, not sure of VRR range), and if it uses LFC algorithms (both NVIDIA and AMD use similar algorithms now), stutters from LFC algorithms on 360Hz will be at most, a 2.8ms stutter (2.8 pixel stutterjump at 1000 pixels/sec motion) at worst case, but a random number between [0...2.9ms] would be only 1.4ms stutter average (1.4 pixel stutterjump at 1000 pixesls/sec motion). At this point, without a strobe backlight, this begins to become hidden in low-framerate stutter, since 48fps at 1000 pixels/sec creates (1000/48) = 20.8333 pixels of motion blurring, or 20.8333 pixels of objectjump.
So with a HUMONGOUS variable refresh rate range, e.g. 48...360, then the LFC stutters completely fall into the noisefloor of low-framerate stutter! Y'know (with proper drivers & proper LFC algorithm) even 1.4ms stutter error being completely lost in 20.8 pixel stutter at 48 frames per second. Big whooooop-deeee-do. The virtue of a massive VRR range works in the favour of LFC!

To play it safe, please stick to high-rated VRR. There are artifacts of cheap uncertified VRR (generic adaptive sync with no AMD or NVIDIA certifications) that can look worse than LFC artifacts.
TL;DR:
- LFC doesn't add any stutter if you have consistent low framerate (like a perfect 30fps movie)
- LFC can worsen stutter for volatile low framerates (frametimes varying frequently across refreshtime of min-Hz).
- LFC stutter error is directly proportional to max-Hz
- LFC stutter error (in milliseconds) averages out to equalling half the duration of a max-Hz (e.g. 2.1ms for 240Hz).
- Thusly, LFC becomes unnoticeable with wide VRR ranges like "48Hz-360Hz" instead of "48Hz-120Hz".
- Thusly, if worried about LFC stutter
.....Framepace your low framerates well to help LFC work better
.....And get the biggest VRR range you can afford
- Premium VRR (G-SYNC certification and higher-end FreeSync) is worth it for other reasons than LFC too, but depends on goals.

. . .

I would bet smarter LFC algorithms will "watch" the framerate range rather than instantaneous framerate, and simply go into permanent-LFC even at higher Hz, e.g. 31fps or 32fps becomes LFC on a GSYNC "30-144" monitor if it is seeing framerates becoming volatile across the LFC boundary (i.e. 28-35fps with a 31fps or 32fps average). Basically, smart LFC algorithms watch the framerate range, and if the framerate valley falls into LFC range, then the whole range becomes temporarily perma-LFC to become flawless LFC because you cannot have a partially-LFC framerate range without LFC collisions. Then when the framerate range finally stays above the LFC floor, then LFC can deactivate completely seamlessly. That's how smarter LFC algorithms can avoid stutter for minor framerate volatility that "fuzzes across" the LFC boundary.

I was suggesting or at least pondering about not only doing LFC (low framerate compensation) , but also doing it on the high end with refresh/frame repeating perhaps even with hardware on the displays themselves. A little frame insertion (even by one frame for 2x the framerate) maybe on the low end if you need it to get to ~ 200fps (of motion definition) in the first place, the aspect you were talking about. Motion definition aspect of high fpsHz has diminishing returns, I'm more focused on (pun intended) the blur reduction of much higher Hz ranges .


....
At least as I understand it, the blur reduction is more about the raw refreshes/redraws rather than the difference or uniqueness of the individual frames (kind of like if BFI operated on the same unchanged unique frame position of a scene more than once to maintain a consistent "shutter speed").
 
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Zorachus

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I'm open to trying out the C2 42" one more time, but only if there's a way to really make the colors. Very vibrant and punchy.

When I had it last month I recall it being sort of a washed out dull image. Yeah the blacks looked amazing. Anything in a dark area of a game was super cool looking but I play a lot of world of warcraft which is very colorful and the colors just seem kind of drab. My old AW3420 DW actually looked more vibrant.

Otherwise I might try out the AW 3423 DW
 

MistaSparkul

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I'm open to trying out the C2 42" one more time, but only if there's a way to really make the colors. Very vibrant and punchy.

When I had it last month I recall it being sort of a washed out dull image. Yeah the blacks looked amazing. Anything in a dark area of a game was super cool looking but I play a lot of world of warcraft which is very colorful and the colors just seem kind of drab. My old AW3420 DW actually looked more vibrant.

Otherwise I might try out the AW 3423 DW

You can try the hdmi signaling override to BT.2020 trick lol.
 

Zorachus

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Out of curiosity, when you buy a TV, do you leave the color setting on "vivid"?

I do have the LG C2 65 in for my home theater, and I calibrated it and it looks absolutely amazing for streaming sci-fi and fantasy shows as well as just movies in general.

Absolutely love the C2 65" TV. Even my wife who's not a tech person whatsoever. Never notices new stuff. Said she saw an immediate improvement and image quality when we got that TV in August.

But when I got the 42-in for a PC gaming display, I was not nearly as wow'd or impressed.

I would always set it to cinema user and then tweak all those different settings per all the YouTube guides or Rtings site.
 

elvn

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Out of curiosity, when you buy a TV, do you leave the color setting on "vivid"?


I'm open to trying out the C2 42" one more time, but only if there's a way to really make the colors. Very vibrant and punchy.

When I had it last month I recall it being sort of a washed out dull image. Yeah the blacks looked amazing. Anything in a dark area of a game was super cool looking but I play a lot of world of warcraft which is very colorful and the colors just seem kind of drab. My old AW3420 DW actually looked more vibrant.

Otherwise I might try out the AW 3423 DW

To be fair, at least on the 48cx but I assume all LG OLED "gaming" tvs - the default SDR game mode (named picture mode) is somewhat muted color compared to the other named modes. I'm not a neon rave settings guy but I wasn't happy with it the first time I switched from a HDR game and it's named HDR picture mode, which looked amazing (even in the SDR part of the HDR curve), back to a regular full SDR game for the first time. It was definitely muted color vibrancy/saturation wise and especially compared to any content in other named modes, (including games in other named modes but then they'd get higher input lag).

I ended up turning the color slider up on that SDR named game mode in the TV's OSD. I used reshade to adjust the color saturation +/- after that on a per game basis. It was easier to keep the color slider in the TV's own OSD up a bit and then tweak it down with reshade which remembers your tweaks of it's simple sliders on a per game basis. Doing this for the SDR named Game picture mode does not affect the HDR version of game mode. Now with autoHDR that changes this for games that works on though so prob isn't necessary for those.

*do be mindful of certain games that flag reshade with their anti-cheat though. There is also nvidia freestyle which does the same thing for games that support it but then you have to run geforce experience so reshade is better if you can use it.
 
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elvn

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https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c2-oled/settings

For HDR gaming, we recommend setting HDMI Deep Color to '4k' for the port you are using; otherwise, you might have some issues. If Instant Game Response is enabled, the TV should do this automatically.

should, but you might have to double check it. That applies to HDR though not SDR.
For an optimal PC gaming experience and proper chroma 4:4:4 support, it's important to set the input icon to 'PC' for the HDMI port you are using. Once you've set the label, we recommend reapplying our base SDR or HDR settings, as the picture modes change when you set the label. This can be done from the 'Home Dashboard' menu. Depending on the format you are sending, it might also be necessary to set HDMI Deep Color to '4k'.

config-141-medium.jpg


I also check that the hdmi input is on the pc icon but usually can tell when it isn't because text becomes tattered looking when you aren't at 4:4:4/rgb. Any time the cable DC's , tv is unplugged, or a firmware update is installed I have to change it back to PC icon.
..

I play a lot of world of warcraft which is very colorful and the colors just seem kind of drab.


https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/wow-and-hdr-absolutely-gorgeous/1305971

Aug 14 2022:

The auto HDR implementation through windows 11 has been one of the most striking graphical upgrades I’ve seen in World of Warcraft since I began playing back in vanilla.
I’ve been raving about HDR in WoW, made possible through windows 11, for a solid two months to my guildmates, but I logged in this AM, saw the warm stone of Stormwind bathed in dawn and had to make this post in hopes that more of my fellow players will take advantage of this feature.
Most computer monitors, even high end gaming monitors, have lackluster HDR implementation. I happen to be playing on what is effectively a TV–an LG C1.
My friends, if you want to see Azeroth pop, invest in a quality HDR tv or monitor, especially an OLED if possible.
Blizzard, I hope you will implement actual HDR soon.
 

noko

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Went to buy the 42" C2 at BB, price went back up, same with Amazon. Guess wife will be without her tv she never uses in the bedroom longer.
 
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