4070ti 800$ minimum...lol no thanks nvidia! My 3080 is lookin better and better everyday.

Is it even 70 tier though?

Sure they changed the code number with the 4080 being a 103 die, but that makes the 4070 Ti with the 104 die effectively the third tier down. Aside from the 2070 (non-super), that doesn't really happen with 70-class branded cards and those tiered die cards are usually the 60-class and below.

Ampere:
  • 102 die: 3080, 3080 Ti, 3090, 3090 Ti
  • 104 die: 3060 Ti, 3070, 3070 Ti
  • 106 die: 3050, 3060
Turing:
  • 102 die: 2080 Ti
  • 104 die: 2070 Super, 2080, 2080 Super
  • 106 die: 2060, 2060 Super, 2070
Pascal:
  • 102 die: 1080 Ti
  • 104 die: 1070, 1070 Ti, 1080
  • 106 die: 1060
  • 107 die: 1050, 1050 Ti
  • 108 die: 1010, 1030
Maxwell:
  • 200 die: 980 Ti
  • 204 die: 970, 980
  • 206 die: 950, 960
Now here's Ada Lovelace:
  • 102 die: 4090
  • 103 die: 4080
  • 104 die: 4070 Ti
And it tracks. 3060, 2060, 1060, 960 are all third tier down the stack die cards. What also tracks? 3060 -> 12GB on 192-bit bus. 4070 ti? 12Gb on 192-bit bus. For $900. Let that sink in.
 
NGL, the 40 series cards make me sad for future upgrades beyond maybe 30 series b/c of their pricing. I mean, they're so expensive new (even the 4070ti imho) that I don't personally see used market pricing coming down in the same time frame/way that previous gen cards had. Idk it could just be me, or that I'm not appropriately putting into words what I'm thinking, but as someone who usually sources their GPU's a gen or two behind current tech within a certain price range, I'm starting to think the price range I've spent in the past (up to $250-$300? I don't mind waiting for that one special deal lol) is going to get me less performance per dollar than previous gen stuff in the same time frame. I recently upgraded my 1070ti to a 2080ti for $250, how long until the used market starts producing used 4080 or higher cards at that price, even if it's "right place right time" kinda deal?
 
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Unfortunately, he's right. People can't help themselves and overpay.
 
4070 Ti for 800$, Nvidia can suck it! I bought the 4090 simply because I knew supply would be short and AMD gave no indication of matching this kind of performance.
But for mainstream this kind of pricing will definitely discourage future and existing gamers to the PC platform. It is a stupid move.
 
If i was in the market right now, i think id be buying a 6750xt. Just checked, second hand 6900s are going for $620 which seems higher then id expect. I could swear 6900s were going for $500 around the launch of the 4000 series.
 
buttons said:
If i was in the market right now, i think id be buying a 6750xt. Just checked, second hand 6900s are going for $620 which seems higher then id expect. I could swear 6900s were going for $500 around the launch of the 4000 series.
Click to expand...
Prices have gone up once people got wind of lack of supply of new cards both on Nvidia and AMD side.
 
It's all bananas. Bought a 2600k ($330) and 1080 ti ($699). They were respectively the first and only time I bought the top dog CPU and GPU. Before that I was a third tier kind of person. It wasn't that long ago where the top dog parts seemed to deliver a justifiable value to me. If I was upgrading today I'd be looking at the third SKU down or further again. I paid $869 for my 3080 ti because adjusted for inflation it was the same price as my 1080 ti.
A 13900k should cost $446 and a 4080 ti equivalent about $873 based on US CPI numbers. The manufactures dreamt up new tiers and it feels like a cash grab. I'll just suffer with older parts until some game comes out that forces me to upgrade. I've stayed at 1440p as a hedge.
 
I hope that once 30** inventory clears out we see a price drop but I am doubting it.
 
The 3080 FE was bargain when it came out vs the over inflated 2080Ti.
I was bummed when they announced the price of $1199 for the 3080Ti FE, but I bought a couple anyway, one to flip to lower the cost of the one I kept.

What boggled my mind was that I was able to sell the 1080Ti I bought new in 2017 for the same price of $675 in 2021.
 
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Eventually without people buying these cards, prices will crash. They have to.
News section has articles talking about how few cards are being sold. Fewer cards than in two decades. And frankly there isn't demand for BS level cards.
If AMD won't step in, someone else will. Maybe it will take Intel being a solid third "mid priced" option for AMD/nVidia to get it.

What also annoys me is that enthusiasts in these forums have been complaining about AMD not being a "top level" performer. "Oh no, they're not competing with the 4090". Turns out the amount of people that actually want to spend $1500+ on a card are an extremely vocal minority. And anyone talking about not having a mid-to-low priced value card is a complete idiot.
Value for money is the only metric here that matters. Hopefully enough "enthusiasts" also get spanked so we don't have to hear any of that garbage again.
 
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UnknownSouljer said:
Eventually without people buying these cards, prices will crash. They have to.
News section has articles talking about how few cards are being sold. Fewer cards than in a decade. And frankly there isn't demand for BS level cards.
If AMD won't step in, someone else will. Maybe it will take Intel being a solid third "mid priced" option for AMD/nVidia to get it.

What also annoys me is that enthusiasts in these forums have been complaining about AMD not being a "top level" performer. "Oh no, they're not competing with the 4090". Turns out the amount of people that actually want to spend $1500+ on a card are an extremely vocal minority. And anyone talking about not having a mid-to-low priced value card is a complete idiot.
Value for money is the only metric here that matters. Hopefully enough "enthusaists" also get spanked so we don't have to hear any of that garbage again.
Click to expand...
If anything is start investigating both companies as being in collusion for price fixing to try to maintain artificially high margins.

But yes, gamers should continue to reject all of these cards and then the reality of supply/demand should catch up.
 
UnknownSouljer said:
What also annoys me is that enthusiasts in these forums have been complaining about AMD not being a "top level" performer. "Oh no, they're not competing with the 4090".
Click to expand...

I think that disappointment about the 7900xtx not matching 4090 performance was more related to price - with the 4090 firmly on top with no competition, it's crazy price can be justified and is unlikely to ever come down. But on it's own, I'm not seeing many disappointed with the performance of the 7900xtx, especially since it gives you more performance per dollar compared to the 4080. But there are also other issues. AMD's drivers are worse than Nvidia's, and don't seem to be getting better. If anything, as AMD's market share continues to decrease, their drivers seem to be getting even worse. You have the cooling issues that many are reporting. AMD cards lack features such as a true equivalent alternative to Nvidia's Shadowplay, DLSS, DLDSR, etc. Ray Tracing performance is worse. AMD cards don't tend to hold their value as well, etc.

UnknownSouljer said:
Turns out the amount of people that actually want to spend $1500+ on a card are an extremely vocal minority.
Click to expand...

The "vocal minority" is still larger than the supply of cards. And we can't simply ignore the rampant inflation that is occurring right now either.
 
GotNoRice said:
I think that disappointment about the 7900xtx not matching 4090 performance was more related to price - with the 4090 firmly on top with no competition, it's crazy price can be justified and is unlikely to ever come down. But on it's own, I'm not seeing many disappointed with the performance of the 7900xtx, especially since it gives you more performance per dollar compared to the 4080.
Click to expand...
It doesn't matter either way. People aren't willing to pay $1500. They're not willing to pay $1200. They're not willing to pay $1000. They're not willing to pay $900. They're not willing to pay $800.

Performance has never been the issue. Cost has been.
GotNoRice said:
But there are also other issues. AMD's drivers are worse than Nvidia's, and don't seem to be getting better. If anything, as AMD's market share continues to decrease, their drivers seem to be getting even worse. You have the cooling issues that many are reporting. AMD cards lack features such as a true equivalent alternative to Nvidia's Shadowplay, DLSS, DLDSR, etc. Ray Tracing performance is worse. AMD cards don't tend to hold their value as well, etc.
Click to expand...
If I was to buy a card today it would be a 6900XT. And that is to go against literally everything you stated in your post. If it had to be a current gen card, it would be a 7900XTX. I don't have money for either, bills to pay and more important priorities. Well that and my current card is doing just fine, also an AMD card, a Radeon VII.
GotNoRice said:
The "vocal minority" is still larger than the supply of cards.
Click to expand...
Strap yourself in. nVidia is more or less firmly stating: 4080 or nothing. 4090's will not likely have any real stock until March at the earliest, just from the water cooler talk in the news section.

That and it's been confirmed that both AMD and nVidia have scaled back their orders from TSMC. They both know this market far better than we do. They know that people aren't buying this garbage and for the time being they're comfortable with that. Meanwhile 4080's stack up on shelves and if I want a 7900XTX today I can get one. Again though, it turns out nobody really wants either.

If the vocal minority truly wants a card, they can get one scalped at 1.25x the cost. There are tons on eBay with BIN's at around $2000-$2400, 5 pages worth. I imagine those with bidding will end up at less. Every person that says they're good with 4090 prices (as in MSRP prices even) has cash to blow. Can't really have it both ways here.

There isn't truly a card drought. You could argue that scalpers got cards instead of customers. But in terms of how many people want one vs how many there are, until every single one sells out on eBay, I'd say there are more cards then there are customers.
GotNoRice said:
And we can't simply ignore the rampant inflation that is occurring right now either.
Click to expand...
Bringing up inflation is missing the point. You can't bring that up and then ignore "cost". Yes, this is greed-flation. Which was really the point to begin with. But the vocal minority got what they wanted. The highest performance at any cost. I feel there is ZERO room to complain here. Whales did it to themselves; I have zero sympathy. People keep buying them, so nVidia keeps making the same moves.

Only until nVidia gets spanked will there be a change in their operating procedure. Which hopefully is happening, what with people NOT buying their cards. This isn't really "inflation" in the traiditonal sense. nVidia has figured out they could shove scalped prices down our throats. Which allowed AMD to inflate their prices beneath them.
 
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The actual market will decide prices, not angry forums posts calling for a "boycut"
(That part is kinda humorous, I will decide what I accept as price for me, not you...not matter how much it angers you.)

But I do wonder who actually are the "vocal minority":
https://www.newegg.com/d/Best-Sellers/GPUs-Video-Graphics-Cards/s/ID-48

Best selling cards:
1. GIGABYTE GAMING OC GeForce RTX 4080
2. GIGABYTE Gaming (GIGABYTE) GeForce RTX 4090
3. ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 3060 Ti
4. MSI Ventus GeForce RTX 3060
5. GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 3050
6. ASUS TUF Gaming GeForce RTX 4080
7. SAPPHIRE Radeon RX 7900 XT
8. GIGABYTE EAGLE OC GeForce RTX 4080
9. SAPPHIRE Radeon RX 7900 XTX
10. MSI Gaming (MSI) GeForce RTX 4080

Looking at those numbers, I doubt the price will change anytime soon...when the RTX 4080 has 4 of the top 10 spots.
 
HumanBias said:
The actual market will decide prices, not angry forums posts calling for a "boycut"
(That part is kinda humorous, I will decide what I accept as price for me, not you...not matter how much it angers you.)
Click to expand...
Cool. Go buy it then. You should spend less energy caring about things that clearly don't affect you.
 
NightReaver said:
Cool. Go buy it then. You should spend less energy caring about things that clearly don't affect you.
Click to expand...
I got a 4090, so I am all good...but wondering why it angers you so much that people buy the 4080 in bigger numbers than indicated by a "boycotting" vocal minority??
 
HumanBias said:
I got a 4090, so I am all good...but wondering why it angers you so much that people buy the 4080 in bigger numbers than indicated by a "boycotting" vocal minority??
Click to expand...
So nothing to add besides "you mad brah"? We're not discussing the 4080 here.
 
NightReaver said:
So nothing to add besides "you mad brah"? We're not discussing the 4080 here.
Click to expand...
Funny, for me it seems you are angry because you want the performance, you just want to dictate the price.
That will only lead to more anger, dissapointment and angry forums posts from your side.

The rational choices would be to either:
A) Not to care, it is a luxury item.
B) Buy another product that suits you finances.
C) Buy the product.

Expecting raging posts on forums calling for "boycotts" to have any positive impact is a fools errand in my book.
(And seems to be making you angry)
 
HumanBias said:
The actual market will decide prices, not angry forums posts calling for a "boycut"
Click to expand...
People keep repeating this statement. It's not true. There are entire books written about "pricing strategy". If there wasn't then the term "luxury good" which you yourself state later in posts would have no meaning. Even in that Wiki article it goes over 30 different pricing strategies, or tactics to get consumers to part with their money.
But you're clearly one of those people that marketing and pricing strategies directly affects even though you think they don't. In fact these strategies are so effective that you effectively think that there wasn't likely dozens of people that studied the market and very carefully placed the pricing of the 4090 and 4080 while looking at market trends, their manufacturing capabilities, cost, and the like. You swallow pricing without thinking and believe everyone else should do the same. As if nVidia couldn't have chosen to price things differently. "It had to be $1600, there was no other way for it to be anything else..."

nVidia's pricing strategy is absolutely exploitative and scarcity based. And I can easily say this as we are aware that nVidia is slashing their TSMC orders. They prefer to manufacture less cards that they can price at scalper prices. If there were loads more people willing to pay $1600 for a 4090, they'd never do this. Unless for some reason they're a business that doesn't like money. And we know that isn't true. Especially with slogans such as: "The more you buy the more you save."
HumanBias said:
(That part is kinda humorous, I will decide what I accept as price for me, not you...not matter how much it angers you.)
Click to expand...
nVidia is more than happy to exploit the willing. So congratulations.
HumanBias said:
But I do wonder who actually are the "vocal minority":
https://www.newegg.com/d/Best-Sellers/GPUs-Video-Graphics-Cards/s/ID-48

Best selling cards:
1. GIGABYTE GAMING OC GeForce RTX 4080
2. GIGABYTE Gaming (GIGABYTE) GeForce RTX 4090
3. ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 3060 Ti
4. MSI Ventus GeForce RTX 3060
5. GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 3050
6. ASUS TUF Gaming GeForce RTX 4080
7. SAPPHIRE Radeon RX 7900 XT
8. GIGABYTE EAGLE OC GeForce RTX 4080
9. SAPPHIRE Radeon RX 7900 XTX
10. MSI Gaming (MSI) GeForce RTX 4080

Looking at those numbers, I doubt the price will change anytime soon...when the RTX 4080 has 4 of the top 10 spots.
Click to expand...
Video card sales in total are the lowest they've been in 20 years. That's the data.

For reference 20 years ago we were using Geforce 4's and Geforce FX's. And most of Gen Z wasn't born yet. George W Bush was president. I say this to say that 20 years ago the PC gaming market was a tiny fraction of what it is today and the GPU compute market literally didn't exist. The fact that video cards aren't selling speaks volumes.
HumanBias said:
Funny, for me it seems you are angry because you want the performance, you just want to dictate the price.
That will only lead to more anger, dissapointment and angry forums posts from your side.
Click to expand...
It's absurd that people who don't want to buy cards at current pricing are somehow "angry". I don't want to buy a Lamborghini at current pricing either. I'm also not mad about that.
The difference here is that nVidia, unlike Lamborghini, sells a product stack that is dependent on "regular" consumers.
HumanBias said:
The rational choices would be to either:
A) Not to care, it is a luxury item.
B) Buy another product that suits you finances.
C) Buy the product.

Expecting raging posts on forums calling for "boycotts" to have any positive impact is a fools errand in my book.
(And seems to be making you angry)
Click to expand...
No one is calling for anything. It's simply happening. It's obvious from your multiple posts in a row that you're completely disconnected from general sentiment. Enjoy your card.
 
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HumanBias said:
The actual market will decide prices, not angry forums posts calling for a "boycut"
Click to expand...
Thank you, Captain Obvious.

HumanBias said:
(That part is kinda humorous, I will decide what I accept as price for me, not you...not matter how much it angers you.)
Click to expand...
Not as humorous as your need to boast about purchasing a 4090 and laughing at angry peasants.
 
Meeho said:
Thank you, Captain Obvious.


Not as humorous as your need to boast about purchasing a 4090 and laughing at angry peasants.
Click to expand...

To be fair I would boast if I had a 4090 as well. :D

Good chance with recent news of graphic sales tanking the market just says "no". One can hope!
 
I got a mint used Gigabyte Aorus 3090 a few weeks ago for $800. The scalpers are setting the prices and the manufacturers are following suit. We’re our own worst enemy. Stop buying from scalpers at ludicrous mark ups and the msrp’s will stop going up. I want the latest and greatest as much as the next guy but not going to play this scalper game. I’ll have it a year later, or two, for 75% less. I’m running a 11800x2160 flightsim setup and my new 13900kf (upgraded from 5930k) and 3090 give me 120fps in X-Plane 11. Happy for now and when the 4090 comes down to earth eventually I’ll be even happier buying used.
 
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Irresponsible amounts of performance. Stupendous pricing.

Remember, Jensen said Moore's Law is dead. No more free rides! But don't worry, just repeat after me, "The more GPUs you buy, the more you save." ...a very simple equation...
 
$1050 for Strix 4070 ti at my MC ATM. There were some Asus TUF for $800 at opening but they are gone now. Pretty much everything else they had this morning still in stock. PNY for $800 and a GN for $830 are the cheapest.
 
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And, aside from a grand total of two MSRP models at my local Micro Center, the rest are as follows:

  • PNY XLR8 Gaming Verto: $799.99
  • Zotac Trinity: $799.99
  • PNY XLR8 Gaming Verto OC: $829.99
  • ASUS TUF OC: $849.99
  • Gigabyte Eagle OC: $849.99
  • MSI Ventus 3X OC: $869.99
  • Gigabyte Gaming OC: $899.99
  • MSI Gaming Trio: $914.99
  • ASUS ROG Strix: $949.99
  • MSI Suprim X OC: $974.99
  • Zotac AMP Extreme AIRO OC: $999.99
  • ASUS ROG Strix OC: $1049.99
 
The problem with the 4080 12 GB 4070 Ti isn't just the price, but being a bad product for that price.

NVIDIA's performance relative to the 3090 quietly includes DLSS 3.0 to make the 4070 Ti look good, while pricing it to make AMD's 7900 XT look good. It's a terrible value against a used 3090!

By contrast, the 7900 XTX and RTX 4080 are good GPUs with bad prices (and in the former's case, bad vapor chambers), and would be received far better with price cuts.

They actually perform decisively better than their previous generations did at the top, even if they're not 4090 good, and that's what we want to see at the high end each new generation, not stagnation like Turing/RTX 20 Series.

Also, if what everyone's suggesting is true, Asus continues to go full crack pipe on ROG Strix variant pricing. Nobody in their right mind should choose a 4070 Ti over an AIB variant of the 7900 XTX for $1,050 when the latter does about equal RT performance and far superior raster performance, not to mention twice the VRAM.
 
This should have been released as the RTX 4070 at $599. It only makes sense as a -70 card due to the considerable die cut and lower memory, and lesser performance to the 4080. Given that the performance is roughly equivalent or barely superior to a 3080, it makes sense to be a 70 series card generation over generation as well. It would be similarly disappointing as the 2070 was, but at least that card was $500.

It's Nvidia's own stupid fault they mis-priced the 4080 so badly that they also similarly, stupidly, priced this 4070 as a rebadged 4070ti. The 4070 at this rate is going to be equivalent to the 3070 in performance, they dont have much lower to go before our expectations bottom out even further.
 
Just buy a 3080 and run 4K at 60 frames. Do you really need 120 frames at 4k? I play 4K at 60 frames on my 3080 and I'm happier than a pig in s***. Yeah it would be nice but it's totally not needed and definitely not worth the price they're charging for it. I'm going to keep my three series until the 5 series comes out. I'm just wondering how much the Five series is going to cost at this point. But like I said I'm not going to buy the 4080 why would I pay $1200 for 20 more fps than a 3080? Ot at most 700$ for 20fps? Just no. Its not worth it. It's a total garbage card in comparison. Just take 500 bucks and go on Facebook Marketplace and buy a 3080 and get 60 to 75fps on 4k till 5 series. Who am I kidding?! 5 series gon cost 2k plus! Fuck u pc gaming!
 
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