3dfx discussion/appreciation thread

defaultluser said:
I really don't understand the lovefest for 3DFX. They were mostly lucky early-on, and showed their lack of decision making for nearly every step thereafter.

When Q3Test was released in April 1999, it marked the end of the 16-bit, 256x256 era. And yet, 3dfx managed to release a card without those features in the same month Q3Test became available.

That's not the image of a gamer-oriented company, that's the image of a company with it's head firmly up it's ass. I have no fond memories of them, and don't understand those that do.
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i don't think anyone is here to celebrate their management qualities..

for me its that first time experiencing games in the 3dfx hardware and the game changer it was

as far as Tech goes, it was pretty amazing for the time -

and although you talk about 16bit and texture size - even Nvidia at that hardware you wouldn't run Q3 @ 32bit and big textures because the performance just wasn't that great (don't paint that rosey picture when it wasn't that rosey). in Q3 alone, 32bit was a 40% performance hit.

it wasn't until the Geforce 256 and to be honest more the Geforce2, that 32bit color became a standard and performance was enough to run it all the time (the Geforce 256 got the 32bit performance hit down to under 10%)

Now you are correct about 3dfx lack of fore-sight - not so much in features, but in execution.

they just didn't get the rage/sage going soon enough (the tech begin the Geforce 4), they had to Ride the Voodoo1 design all the way to the VSA-100 chip (with major improvements, but still rooted in the Voodoo1 chip design)
 
H-street said:
Now you are correct about 3dfx lack of fore-sight - not so much in features, but in execution.

they just didn't get the rage/sage going soon enough (the tech begin the Geforce 4), they had to Ride the Voodoo1 design all the way to the VSA-100 chip (with major improvements, but still rooted in the Voodoo1 chip design)
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Where 3dfx got blindsided was the pressure from OEMs to produce a competing 2D/3D solution to keep costs down, diverting engineers and valuable resources from what they did best - high performance 3D. Therefore we got cards like the Voodoo Rush (which honestly, sucked), Voodoo Banshee, and ultimately, Voodoo 3. Three product generations where resources were squandered, basically staying neutral (or even regressing) in performance. In addition, their purchase of STB and effectively cutting out the 3rd party AIB vendors and manufacturers, in essence, shooting themselves in the foot with an elephant gun. Again. If Rampage boards and Rampage + Sage boards were released on time, in addition to the monstrous V5 6000, the 3D landscape would probably be vastly different today, with 3dfx most likely still being around. Shoulda. Coulda. Woulda...

But as you said, we aren't here to discuss 3dfx's executive mismanagement. :)
 
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H-street said:
still running my Retro Rig
I recently sold off my entire 3dfx collection except my Voodoo2 SLI Diamonds

my Retro Rig consists of

XP2200+
AGP 68000GT
SBAudigy
V2 12MB / SLI
2Gb DDR1
120Gb HDD
PS2 Keyboard + PS Mouse
1280x1024 LCD Square monitor


It has a dual HDD setup one with win98SE and one with Windows XP

works well with DOS, Win98, XP

I'm in the works now on building an arcade style type cabinet for it, which it'll hopefully be more of a like a fun little "showcase" type setup for my boys to see what the "good old day" where like lol

Love this little bix
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An Athlon 64 754 or 939 would be much more apt to push a GeForce 6800 GT. Realistically your setup would be better paired with an ATi Radeon 8500, or even better a GeForce 4 Ti 4x00. When building systems, I am a big believer in balancing system performance to eliminate bottlenecks. Also, a Yamaha XG PCI card works wonders for MIDI and genuine OPL3 sound under DOS. Just a friendly two cents. But this isn't an ATi or NVIDIA appreciation thread :p
 
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if you all REALLY wanna give the memory of 3dfx love you can always email Scott Sellers, the FOUNDER of 3dfx and tell him how bad you wanna have his babies. Ive wanted to so many times but Im afraid he might ignore me and I just wouldnt know what to do. In the meantime im hugging my 3000 and 5500 till the day I get the courage to make him mine....we'll have to agree to share him mmkay?. :p

http://www.azulsystems.com/about_us/leadership
 
H-street said:
and although you talk about 16bit and texture size - even Nvidia at that hardware you wouldn't run Q3 @ 32bit and big textures because the performance just wasn't that great (don't paint that rosey picture when it wasn't that rosey). in Q3 alone, 32bit was a 40% performance hit
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You have a very poor memory. 32-bit performance drop was that big on the TNT, but Nvidia figured out what they were doing with the 250nm refresh, and also made more effective drivers than any other company (to boost their inferior hardware). Also, Matrox G400 introduced the venerable DualBus, which made 32-bit even more efficient.

The TNT2 Ultra and G400 MAX (with TurboGL) were both capable of playing Quake 3 at a HIGH QUALITY at a higher framerate than the Voodoo 3 3500 on NORMAL @1024x768:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/matrox-g400max.html

XSgLVDM.gif


pu0RttG.gif


Looks like only a 20% drop to me :D

I can tell you from experience with my vanilla G400: I was able to play Q3 DM smoothly at 800x600 High Quality, after I overclocked it to 140 MHz with TurboGL (got 52fps in Demo 1). The G400 MAX (friend owned one), overclocked with TurboGL could reach the same playable framerates at 1024x768, which was pretty impressive for the day (same resolution Voodoo 2 SLI folks were stuck with after dropping $600).

1280x1024 was a lost cause until the 4-ROP cards were released, regardless of whether you wanted 16 or 32-bit. So the fact that 1024x768x32 max quality was playable in fast-paced deathmatch in April of 1999 just shows how far behind 3dfx was.
 
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I remember going to a computer show and watching the Unreal demo loop on a glorious 17" Optiquest CRT. I was hooked! That day I bought a Diamond Voodoo Banshie. I fired up Need for Speed 2 SE and marveled at the GLide graphics. It was amazing.

I'm working on a build right now.

Tyan 1854 motherboard.
PIII 800 100
256MB EDO
Voodoo 3 3000 AGP ( I modded it to have a Delta 60mm fan on the heatsink.)
30GB HDD
Yamaha CD-RW
SB Live
Enermax 300W PSU
Win 98SE

I still have rounded cables. I'm going to rack-mount it even though I planned on using an original Lian LI PC-7. I don't want more than one PC case on the floor.
 
H-street said:
I guess it depends on who you ask.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/3dfx,125-5.html shows a near 40% hit.

Either way. Gaming At the time I regularly chose 16bit over 32bit because of the performance hit. In q3 framerate was king.

The same is said of early aa. The hit was just too much
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TurboGL was not out at the time of this review, since it was still Q3ATest, and Matrox was a bit behind in early test drivers. TurboGL was made available two months before the official Q3A game was released, on October 8th.

But the TNT2 Ultra had a finished driverset by then, and you can see it has similar performance to the review I posted at 1024x768x32

Tom's 1024x768x32 in August = 43.4
Xbit in October = 41.5

And yes, that performance drop is 20% in one, and then 30% in the other review. Still not 40%, and more importantly STILL NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE THE GAME UNPLAYABLE.

And performance for the TNT2 Ultra is still the same at 32-bit as it is for the Voodoo 3 3500 at 16-bit for 1024x768. Both reviews establish this. So it follows that if the 3500 is a powerful-enough gaming card, the TNT2 Ultra running at 32-bit is similarly powerful.
 
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defaultluser said:
You have a very poor memory. 32-bit performance drop was that big on the TNT, but Nvidia figured out what they were doing with the 250nm refresh, and also made more effective drivers than any other company (to boost their inferior hardware). Also, Matrox G400 introduced the venerable DualBus, which made 32-bit even more efficient.

The TNT2 Ultra and G400 MAX (with TurboGL) were both capable of playing Quake 3 at a HIGH QUALITY at a higher framerate than the Voodoo 3 3500 on NORMAL @1024x768:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/matrox-g400max.html

XSgLVDM.gif


pu0RttG.gif


Looks like only a 20% drop to me :D

I can tell you from experience with my vanilla G400: I was able to play Q3 DM smoothly at 800x600 High Quality, after I overclocked it to 140 MHz with TurboGL (got 52fps in Demo 1). The G400 MAX (friend owned one), overclocked with TurboGL could reach the same playable framerates at 1024x768, which was pretty impressive for the day (same resolution Voodoo 2 SLI folks were stuck with after dropping $600).

1280x1024 was a lost cause until the 4-ROP cards were released, regardless of whether you wanted 16 or 32-bit. So the fact that 1024x768x32 max quality was playable in fast-paced deathmatch in April of 1999 just shows how far behind 3dfx was.
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I would argue that it wasn't until 3dfx's VSA-100 products were released (specifically the dual chip Voodoo5) that you really weren't getting the full Quake 3 experience. On an Athlon 1.1GHz with DDR, Q3A was for the most part smooth at 1024x768 with everything maxed. Once I obtain a V5 again, it's definitely time for more Quake 3... :)

I will argue though that the big appeal of the Voodoo 3 at the time was very fast 16-bit color performance with better IQ than most of the other competing solutions. I don't think anyone informed bought a V3 over a TnT2 Ultra thinking they were getting state of the art features, but rather the compatibility that Glide brought with it. By 1999 there was already a fairly large catalog of games that used the API. Faster single card performance + improved IQ + huge catalog of supported games = WIN, at least for me. Unreal and UT were hands down best played with 3dfx hardware under Glide.

Still, I would have loved to play Descent 3 with EMBM support that the Matrox cards brought, and their output quality was always top notch dating back to the Millenium days. Shame they fumbled with the Parhelia.
 
Interesting rigs. I would love to build a retro rig, I even have most the parts, just not a working older motherboard. I do have a working Monster 3D and Monster 3D2 12meg and a myriad of random 2d cards (to include an Rage MAXX!) but I'd probably just end up running my 3200+ with an older Geforce 2 or 4.
 
Trimlock said:
Interesting rigs. I would love to build a retro rig, I even have most the parts, just not a working older motherboard. I do have a working Monster 3D and Monster 3D2 12meg and a myriad of random 2d cards (to include an Rage MAXX!) but I'd probably just end up running my 3200+ with an older Geforce 2 or 4.
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ATi Rage Fury MAXX boards are, for all intents and purposes, just like PowerVR Neon 250 boards, or ones like my PowerVR PCX2 or Pure 3D, nearly impossible to find. Treasure it!

It would be interesting to see what a MAXX could do given a high end single core processor and the latest revision of drivers. IIRC, they were very CPU limited...
 
Forsaken was great eye candy I believe. Also Unreal. But my favorite game of the time except for Half-Life was Interstate '76. Such a fun game.

I think I remember someone got Doom3 to work on a Voodoo card. Anybody got a link?

Damn the GeForce 256 for killing 3Dfx!
 
SlipperyPete said:
Forsaken was great eye candy I believe. Also Unreal. But my favorite game of the time except for Half-Life was Interstate '76. Such a fun game.

I think I remember someone got Doom3 to work on a Voodoo card. Anybody got a link?
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I love Interstate '76 and Forsaken! Two of my all time favorites. BTW, here's your link. There are a few others that I am aware of but am too lazy to look :p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-RVWtsJqFY
 
TOTALLY obsessed with this retro stuff. In a span of almost 3 years of collecting, I've managed to acquire quite a few goodies!

And it all started because I wanted to find a few of my original PCs I had growing up, including a Packard Bell Legend 386 SX-16Mhz, and a Gateway 2000 P5-75!

Check out my collection here:
http://1drv.ms/1l1uUB7
 
Mr. Bluntman said:
ATi Rage Fury MAXX boards are, for all intents and purposes, just like PowerVR Neon 250 boards, or ones like my PowerVR PCX2 or Pure 3D, nearly impossible to find. Treasure it!
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I've been looking for a PCX2 for, like, a year. A PCX1 did recently come up on eBay, though.

One of these days...
 
Some pics of my Voodoo collection,

Voodoo 3 3000
Voodoo 3 2000
Voodoo 3 1000







 
Voodoo 3 3000 was my first graphics card.

That thing ran Hitman: Codename 47 and MDK 2 at what I'm assuming was 800x600. It was awesome.

Before that I had a 486 and I have no idea what was in it..
 
Artex said:
TOTALLY obsessed with this retro stuff. In a span of almost 3 years of collecting, I've managed to acquire quite a few goodies!

And it all started because I wanted to find a few of my original PCs I had growing up, including a Packard Bell Legend 386 SX-16Mhz, and a Gateway 2000 P5-75!

Check out my collection here:
http://1drv.ms/1l1uUB7
Click to expand...

that collection is awesome. i can't believe you have a quantum3d obsidian. i thought those things were just a myth.
 
wirerogue said:
that collection is awesome. i can't believe you have a quantum3d obsidian. i thought those things were just a myth.
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Thanks! The Quantum3D Obsidians aren't as uncommon as you think. Neither are the PCX1/PCX2 cards. The Neon250 is pretty rare however.
 
Here are some older pics, but I still have all these cards.. I still fire up my voodoo2 SLI rig and play some quake from time to time.. just for a nostalgia fix. :)

IMG_0666_zpscc984f2f.jpg

IMG_0250.jpg

(kinda large..)
v5pci.jpg


IMG_0245.jpg


I have a pair of Diamond voodoo2's and a pair of STB voodoo2's as well.. I had a little voodoo2 quake2 lithium death match setup going in the house for a while.. such good times with that mod way back when. Haste rune or strength rune + hyper blaster = death incarnate. :)
 
I still don't understand what prevented the V1 and V2 from displaying 2D.
 
At the time it was thought a dedicated 3D card just doing that one thing was the way to get the best performance.. I reckon. Consumer level 3D acceleration was just in it's infancy then.. Until the RIVA128 and then TNT...

edit: I remember the riva TNT being the first card to really do 2d/3d well... voodoo2 sli was still faster in 3D but limited to 1024x768... not a huge deal for the avg display size for the time though.. I never got into the voodoo rush and beyond.. I think the TNT2 pretty much trampled the rush and voodoo3.. I think my timelines might be getting off here though. ;)
 
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My first 3d card was when the 3dfx RUSH came out, and I scooped that up. I was also playing MOTORACER that was bundled in with that card non stop. I got it because I didn't want to get a seperate 2d/3d card... and boy did I make the right choice..
 
wonderfield said:
Yeah, but you won't sell it to me :)

Or will you...?
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Actually I have a voodoo 2 and the M3D, I really don't know if they are in working condition.
But if you make me an offer I cant refuse, I could take the time to test them.
 
revenant said:
Here are some older pics, but I still have all these cards.. I still fire up my voodoo2 SLI rig and play some quake from time to time.. just for a nostalgia fix. :)

IMG_0666_zpscc984f2f.jpg

IMG_0250.jpg

(kinda large..)
v5pci.jpg


IMG_0245.jpg


I have a pair of Diamond voodoo2's and a pair of STB voodoo2's as well.. I had a little voodoo2 quake2 lithium death match setup going in the house for a while.. such good times with that mod way back when. Haste rune or strength rune + hyper blaster = death incarnate. :)
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What model is the motherboard and where can i get those neon orange molex/sata power cables?

Posted from sammy s4 mobile
 
RogueTrip said:
What model is the motherboard and where can i get those neon orange molex/sata power cables?

Posted from sammy s4 mobile
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That would be the DFI pro875b and the power cables are from my old ultra x-connect psu, They are oem cables for that psu but they appear to be just standard molex ins and outs so if you can find a cable set on ebay they should work with any psu as extensions. They are bulky, tacky feeling (sticky) and not very flexible though. Just a warning.

If anyone is interested the other motherboard is an MSI K7N2-L - one of my favorite old boards... so reliable and love the red pcb.
 
this thread has piqued my interest.

I think I have an old P4 PC somewhere. IIRC it has an intel 815 mobo. It should run XP just fine.

would the voodoo and M3d run in such a setup?
 
I remember my old Voodoo3. I think it was a 2000 but flashed to 3000. It was yellow and had active cooling. That card ran really hot. At one time I think we found it to be a reference or dev board.
 
I sold my Voodoo 3 3000 PCI on Ebay for like $45 a few months ago.

And I regret it. Relative to performance that was quite a good deal for me obviously, but that was my first video card and it worked awesome just like the day I got it. I miss it. :(
 
Once one more piece of hardware arrives, I am going to pull out my Vodoo 5-5500 powered retro rig.

And that piece of hardware is a Roland MT-100 (MT-32 with sequencer)

The complete rig specs are:
Case is a rewired Micron Millennia Mxe
Motherboard - ASUS K7M v1.04
CPU - AMD Athlon running at 1Ghz (don't remember the base speed sold at and the actual chip under it - most of the Slot-A Athlons were sold at a much lower speed than the chip actually was because the yields were so good). I have a couple Slot-A T-bird CPUs laying around. Just never got around to finishing another S939 cooler mod.
CPU Cooler - modified S939 4-heatpipe cooler. Silent and keeps the CPU super cool.
RAM - 512MB SDRAM - think it is PC-133
Video - Voodoo 5-5500 with nice large Super Socket 7 heatsinks
Sound:
Sound Blaster AWE64 Gold!
Roland MT-100 (on its way)
Roland SC-88 VL
NIC - 3-COM Parallel Tasking II 10/100 - absolute best NIC of the tie period
USB - dual port USB card
40GB IDE HDD - may change this to a SATA setup at some point to help speed things up a little if I can find one that works with Win98SE
3.5" FDD
IDE CD-R/W drive
OS - Win98SE
Monitor - Dell 19" 1280x1024 flat screen.

I'll edit and post pics once I get the MT-100.
 
The AWE64 gold.. the best sound card for it's time... loved those RCA outs.. :) (well, Roland aside I guess.. ;))
 
I still have my 3dfx banshee PCI. I've had to use it couple of times in a "oh shit I poorly flashed my bios" moments.
 
I got inspired by this thread so I dug out my V5 5500 AGP card. I remembered the fans were

bad on it and even before that the card just got hot as hell. So I put the card in the fridge for 30 minutes

and popped the heatsinks off the GPUs (heart stopping moment as I had to use a lot of force)

Look at this shit... no wonder they were running hot. Excuse my limited photo editing skills, those black things are just an approximation of the true size of the GPUs.
OOoOOcn.jpg

Now, I'm trying to find some new heatsinks that would fit with little to no ghetto modding....
I know there are a few Northbridge coolers that could do the job.
 
revenant said:
The AWE64 gold.. the best sound card for it's time... loved those RCA outs.. :) (well, Roland aside I guess.. ;))
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It was a great card, but I always like the AWE32 for its size.

Compensating for my tiny penis with big sound cards.
 
Yea I popped all my heat sinks off. Was one of the big criticisms 3dfx had I. V5
 
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