37" 1080P Panasonic L37U22 IPS-alpha panel TV $538 shipped at Provantage (!!)

SJetski71

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Edit: heads up, this new model panasonic may have dropped the ball, and so did i for jumping the gun by saying "it should make for a great gaming TV". [H] member fore1337 did some input lag tests and so far the numbers look pretty bad. He's going to try some last minute tweaks but i wouldn't take any chances, if you've placed an order intending to use this as a PC gaming monitor then you probably want to call provantage right away and place a hold on your order till more results come in. I'm also very sorry for leading people astray with this TV set and assuming it would perform as well as it's 3 predecessors :(



______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Hot deal on a good TV, no mail in rebates and no cashback, and from a good online merchant to boot. IPS-alpha panel LCD's are known for having low input lag, so this should make for a great gaming TV (edit: read my added statement above).

Ground shipping ought to be around $40 or so, so the price should be around $538-$540 shipped for most.

Deal Link: http://www.provantage.com/panasonic-tc-l37u22~7PANP0H9.htm

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Specs: http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-...isions/VIERA-Flat-Panel-HDTVs/model.TC-L37U22

PDF manual: http://service.us.panasonic.com/operman/findmanual.aspx?model=TCL37U22

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Google price comparison: http://www.google.com/products?q=L37U22&hl=en&scoring=p

Bing price comparison: http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=L37U22&mkt=en-US&FORM=BPFD

Amazon merchants price comparison: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...w?ie=UTF8&qid=1268507097&sr=1-1&condition=new
 
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GonzoP

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Ordered thru provantage once before and it was a good experience. Nice find
 

SJetski71

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Thx, and ya, Provantage is def a good, well known retailer.

The price on this 37" is so low, and it's the newer 2010 model no less. The 32" L32U22 model is only $30-$50 less, making the 37" a no-brainer unless you have size constraints.

32" L32U22 price comparisons:

Google: http://www.google.com/products?q=L3...l=en&scoring=p&show=dd&sa=N&lnk=next&start=10

Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...p?ie=UTF8&qid=1268507245&sr=1-2&condition=new

Bing: http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=L32U22&mkt=en-US&FORM=BPFD


Although one particular Bing merchant has the 32" model for $440 shipped after cashback. Look for merchant HiDef Lifestyle in the Bing link i posted above for links + cashback info. HiDef Lifestyle Resellerating.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Provantage also has the 720P 37" (1366x768) version for $478 shipped, another hot deal and a very viable option for those sitting further than ~ 6ft away: http://www.provantage.com/panasonic-tc-l37c22~7PANP0HF.htm
 
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fore1337

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I can't figure out if it has a 60 or 120hz refresh. :-\

Thanks SJetski for keeping us up to date on display deals! You rock!
 

SJetski71

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I can't figure out if it has a 60 or 120hz refresh. :-\

Thanks SJetski for keeping us up to date on display deals! You rock!


Hehe, no problem, i'll keep the TV deals coming :)

Workingnonstop beat me to it, but this display is 60hz since it's an entry level LCD, but it's a good high quality entry level lcd. TV repairmen have commented that the internals are made with the highest quality individual parts, so you should not have to worry about cheap leaky capacitors, bad video boards, or failing power supplies etc etc etc.

More info at the panasonic website:

Specs: http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-...isions/VIERA-Flat-Panel-HDTVs/model.TC-L37U22

PDF manual: http://service.us.panasonic.com/operman/findmanual.aspx?model=TCL37U22
 

fore1337

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The model that I'm currently gaga over is the Vizio 37" 120hz TV.

It's a good $700 though.
 

SJetski71

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The model that I'm currently gaga over is the Vizio 37" 120hz TV.

It's a good $700 though.
It all depends on what your going to use it for. If it's going to see heavy PC use, or strictly PC use, then the Vizio may be a waste of money, but not necessarily, it all depends, personal preference plays a big part as well.

Careful with Vizios and input lag, all of their models perform differently but some of them have atrocious lag numbers, lagging as much as 4 frames behind in game mode ( over 50ms) some cannot even truly disable 120hz interpolation for better PC or console performance.

I'd research that specific model number Vizio at the AVS forums before plunking the cash down, especially the lag info.
 

fore1337

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Thanks for the warning, it is the SV370XVT
37" 120hz, My intent is to increase VSYNC from 60 fps to 120 by grabbing a 120Hz set.
AVS talks about it here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1141851

It would be a Game PC Monitor, unfortunately, the guys at AVS aren't much for gaming. :(

edit: Yupp, you are right, I stumbled upon some threads where guys measured lag in the order of 70ms. Not sure how accurate that is, but it's enough to scare me off. Thanks for the advice. :)
 
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SJetski71

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NP

Got it, gaming monitor. I should have linked it sooner but in this AVS thread they test and discuss different TV's to see which ones are most suitable for gaming: Input Lag Wars
 

SJetski71

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I don't see this model listed. Do you see it the input lag anywhere?
It's been discussed elsewhere that this 37" TV, and the 32" model, has remained virtually unchanged over the previous 3 model years, and this 2010 model did not add any new video processing options, which was the key thing to look out for.

Then factor in the proven good response time of the panel itself.

But if you are skeptical then that's normal. You can wait for the official results, or move on to something proven beyond a shadow of a doubt (you'll pay more unfortunately).

What type of TV were you looking for? Or do you just like reading about this stuff like i do? :)
 

Talonz

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Well, I started to game on my 54" plasma, but there's slight image retention if I spend a few hours that I'm uncomfortable with. Also, the distance from the screen starts to strain my eyes :(

I'm using a 22" monitor again, but getting sick of the TN panel and the size. I was thinking of going with a 1080p 32" LCD that has low input lag, but 37" seems like it would be ok on a desk too.. I'm really tempted to impulse buy this!
 

SJetski71

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Well, I started to game on my 54" plasma, but there's slight image retention if I spend a few hours that I'm uncomfortable with. Also, the distance from the screen starts to strain my eyes :(

I'm using a 22" monitor again, but getting sick of the TN panel and the size. I was thinking of going with a 1080p 32" LCD that has low input lag, but 37" seems like it would be ok on a desk too.. I'm really tempted to impulse buy this!
You can play it safe by going with an L32S1 if you want. You'll save around $40-$50 off this 37" i posted, and you'll have something a lot more proven.

Note how i searched prices in post #3. You can substitute the phrase i used with "L32S1" and that'll show you how much they're selling for.

Can't blame you for wanting to make an impulse purchase. A 37" name brand TV with good quality internals for only $540 and no sales tax ? Heck i just bought an L32S1 recently and i'm already feeling a little buyer's remorse, but i got mine for $384 after discounts so it ain't that bad :p

The 37" size used to be popular as a monitor though, remember how many people bought the westinghouse LVM w3 ?
 

Talonz

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That's a good deal you got on your monitor!

I'm confused about their product lineup right now. I can't seem to find a difference between the U and S series.

'09 models:
U12
S1

'10 models
U22
S24

I wonder if the U and S lines between years are equivalent. Do you what the difference is between the U22 and S1 line is? I noticed that the U22 doesn't have a "game mode" while the S1 does.
 

SJetski71

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That's a good deal you got on your monitor!

I'm confused about their product lineup right now. I can't seem to find a difference between the U and S series.

'09 models:
U12
S1

'10 models
U22
S24

I wonder if the U and S lines between years are equivalent. Do you what the difference is between the U22 and S1 line is? I noticed that the U22 doesn't have a "game mode" while the S1 does.
Haven't seriously studied the differences myself. But i noticed sometimes the model numbers can mean 1080P vs 720P, or 60hz vs 120hz, or sometimes they give the european versions a different model number for whatever reason. Not sure what the other differences can be.

Edit: if you're comparing different models on the Provantage website then be careful as they fudged some of the specs. You would be better off comparing them at the official panasonic website (can be found on google)

The good news with Panasonic IPS-alpha panel TV's ? ... "Game mode" means nothing, it's just another picture/color/color temperature mode. The TV is always in "Game mode" as long as you disable the silly video processing options in the TV menu.
 
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Obi_Kwiet

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Thanks for the warning, it is the SV370XVT
37" 120hz, My intent is to increase VSYNC from 60 fps to 120 by grabbing a 120Hz set.
AVS talks about it here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1141851

It would be a Game PC Monitor, unfortunately, the guys at AVS aren't much for gaming. :(

edit: Yupp, you are right, I stumbled upon some threads where guys measured lag in the order of 70ms. Not sure how accurate that is, but it's enough to scare me off. Thanks for the advice. :)

That's quite a bit, nearly a tenth of a second. This will be the case with all non-60hz Tvs. 120Hz TVs don't actually accept 120hz input, they just interpolate frames from the 60hz input. If you want to use the TV with your PC, you want a 60Hz tv.
 

SJetski71

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That's quite a bit, nearly a tenth of a second. This will be the case with all non-60hz Tvs. 120Hz TVs don't actually accept 120hz input, they just interpolate frames from the 60hz input. If you want to use the TV with your PC, you want a 60Hz tv.
I wasn't totally following his train of thought, but for a split second that's what i thought he was trying to say.

Obi is right, Fore1337 if you want true 120hz for pc gaming then you'd have to go with a true 120hz monitor. Whereas 120hz TV's can only accept a maximum of 60hz through it's input, it then interpolates it to a "fake" 120hz, which creates even more lag.
 

fore1337

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Guys thanks for setting me straight on the 120Hz != 120 Hz wrt VSYNC.

I think you saved me some cash too. :D

The intent of this (or whatever) set will be exclusively used as a PC Monitor with the occasional console game use on the side.. but I doubt many movies will be viewed on it.
 

SJetski71

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Great find, might purchase one in next month.
Just a heads up but this deal will likely be long gone by then, i'm sure there will be other deals though if you use the search methods i used in the 3rd post. Otherwise 37" panasonics usually cost between $575-$650 depending on what sales event may be taking place at the time...if any.

Personally i have never seen the 37" price this low, and i've been tracking regularly for a few months now.
 

fore1337

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Hey I bit! Thanks for the help. As far as I'm concerned you saved me $217!
 

SJetski71

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Hey I bit! Thanks for the help. As far as I'm concerned you saved me $217!
Nice,

And please post your thoughts, maybe even pics, once you've tested it for a while. If you're in the mood then maybe start a new thread in the display forum, going by the popularity of the pricier 37" westinghouse, then there are potentially tons of people who would be interested in this TV. We wanna live vicariously through you :p

If you need setup+tweak info then do a [H] forum search for the L32S1 and you'll see our settings in those threads. Depending on what video card and drivers you use, the settings should be 99% identical.

By that time this thread may have been moved over to the hot deals discussions sub-forum.

Good luck.
 

fore1337

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I'm up for doing a review. I read the thread on *calculating* input lag. I've got a goliath CRT that is up to the task of beating an IPS-A Panel into submission.

..also I'm gaming on a 2X 4890 CrossfireX setup, so it was a top system yesterday.

This pup is replacing a pair of Dell 2001FP Panels that I've had for ~6 years.
 

SJetski71

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I'm up for doing a review. I read the thread on *calculating* input lag. I've got a goliath CRT that is up to the task of beating an IPS-A Panel into submission.

..also I'm gaming on a 2X 4890 CrossfireX setup, so it was a top system yesterday.

This pup is replacing a pair of Dell 2001FP Panels that I've had for ~6 years.
An input lag test? Nice, if you are able to do it then please post the results in the display forum along with your thoughts, or you can even post it at the official AVS input lag thread thread. Or i can cut + paste + host it there for you, giving you full credit of course.

Both displays would need to be set to 1920x1080P for a 100% accurate test, but that avs thread includes instructions if you need it. Hopefully you get the time and inclination :)


I'll say one thing, once it's all setup, you may seem a little puzzled with it wondering what to think (i know i was). But a day or two later i had already gotten used to it and started loving it.
 

fore1337

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Hmm, I only have 1x 1080P display that I can use for a lag test comparison. It's a Westinghouse LVM-42w2.
 

SJetski71

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Hmm, I only have 1x 1080P display that I can use for a lag test comparison. It's a Westinghouse LVM-42w2.
A big CRT monitor can do any resolution, that's what i miss most about them. It will just have the black bars on top and bottom with 1080P

Not to mention the test works best against a display with little to no input lag to compare it to, that westinghouse you have has around 30ms lag, if it's anything like the LVM w3 that is. 30ms seems to be the threshold of good, anything higher begins to become noticeable by more people.

With the correct settings panasonic IPS-A televisions have anywhere between 0ms to 8ms to 16ms depending on the moment (zero to 1 frame worth of lag ...... 1 frame=16ms)

Oh yea, a previous westy owner or two purchased the panasonic IPS-A and commented on the improved image quality, hopefully you'll notice the same.
 
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SJetski71

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Loving my Samsung LN46A650, but the Panny looks like a good bet for a smaller monitor.


A650 input lag results:
VGA mode / 1080p.
Average lag: 0-1 frame delay

VGA mode / any PC resolution accepted by the 650. 480P and 720P will not work in VGA.
Average lag: 0-1 frame delay

HDMI2 PC mode / 1080p.
Average lag: 0-1 frame delay
Great results for a very nice TV. 2008 was Samsung's best year for gaming TV's. The newest ones are 30ms at best (2 frame delay), or something like that.

But ya, i agree, the Panasonic fills a perfect niche in the 32" and 37" sizes. Too bad they don't produce 42" and 47" IPS-alpha panels.
 

SJetski71

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Bump back to page one. *Deal still alive*

Seems to be selling pretty well, the stock count has dropped nicely over the past few days.
 

MrkXCeL

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Anyone's optinion on if and how good this TV does for 1:1 pixel scaling? I'd love for this to turn into my all around PC monitor..
 

edifyingkarma

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not bad at all

Anyone's optinion on if and how good this TV does for 1:1 pixel scaling? I'd love for this to turn into my all around PC monitor..

I've owned 2 HDTV sets that I have used as my primary computer screen (now on a 46in). The 1:1 scaling is nearly perfect. You should try it out
 

MrkXCeL

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not bad at all



I've owned 2 HDTV sets that I have used as my primary computer screen (now on a 46in). The 1:1 scaling is nearly perfect. You should try it out

I've seen the 37Westy back in its day, it was perfect, I've tried it on my friends 42" Samsung LCD, it was a no go, and a friends 50" Plasma LCD, no go either. Games fine, browsing web, forget about it, without zooming in etc.
 

fore1337

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So, I got it a day early... here it is!

H_post.jpg


Now I'm fighting with the settings to get rid of the .5" black bar around the picture. There is also Serious ghosting or something going on. The must be some settings that need to be tweaked. So far it doesn't look 1/2 as good as my westy. :-\ But I think once I figure it out, it should be better.
 

SJetski71

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So, I got it a day early... here it is!

H_post.jpg


Now I'm fighting with the settings to get rid of the .5" black bar around the picture. There is also Serious ghosting or something going on. The must be some settings that need to be tweaked. So far it doesn't look 1/2 as good as my westy. :-\ But I think once I figure it out, it should be better.
Look at that monster :)

Yep, what you're experiencing right now is totally normal. We all went through the same thing with our panasonics. Black bars all around and a blurry picture in the middle.

A few quick tips:

In the TV menu select

- Black = light black

- Enable HD size = 2 (this setting may or may not work on your model, personally i think you'll have to enable it)

- Disable all the image processing options, heck even drop sharpness down to 0, you can raise it tiny bit later on once you're done testing, not sure if it adds any processing lag (?). Adding a tiny bit of tint may help picture quality but i'm not sure if it adds any video processing lag, maybe you should disable tint for now while troubleshooting and testing.


In the video card control panel:

- You may have to mess with overscan/underscan settings because sometimes they are enabled by default.

- If all the above tweaks do not succeed in making everything work perfectly, then you may have to set the refresh rate to 59hz. I had to, it was the icing on the cake and made everything perfect, but this all depends on what video card and driver you are using so results may vary.

- I'm sure i'm forgetting something, if i can think of anything else i'll report back.


Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
 
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Obi_Kwiet

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I'm excited to know what these results are. I'm going to order one as soon as I get conformation that it's as good as the l37s1.
 

SJetski71

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Pretty good deal on an open box, but still in plastic L32S1 32" for $377 shipped with 8% Bing cashback factored in.


Directions on how to get 8% Bing cashback for Ebay:

- Go to Bing.com and type "Wii" into the search bar and click enter.

- Look for the 8% Ebay Bing banner ad and click it. Refresh the page a few times if you don't see the banner ad.

- Shop for auction # 290414708301 and check out using the same page.

- Direct link to product: http://cgi.ebay.com/Panasonic-VIERA-32-Widescreen-1080P-LCD-TV-TC-L32S1_W0QQitemZ290414708301
 

fore1337

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Okay, So last night I tried some setup tweaks as suggested above. It turns out that I needed to update my ATI Drivers to the latest version.

Overscanning/underscanning did the trick for getting true full screen.

Under scanned Image:
corner_black.jpg

Edit: for the record, Scaling the image up to fill the screen was not a problem with the ATI software.

3D Accelerated content is perfect... I mean, I've never seen colors like these come from a display before. X360 & PC through the HDMI look great!
Geometry Wars looks better!
X360_hdmi_colors.jpg


PC Gaming colors look fantastic, despite crappy camera:
torchlight_win7.jpg


But here's what is driving me crazy.. it's the dark text on a light background.

photo of screen, look at the shadowing:
txt_shadowinFireFox_Win7.jpg


Screen capture of same view:
text_shadow_screengrab.jpg


It even shows up a little on light text on a dark bkgd:

txt_shadowinFireFox_Win7blk.jpg


I believe it's software driven.. because check out this screen capture.. not a photo (XP Pro):
xpdsktp_weirdlookingtext.jpg


I would have spent more time tweaking last night.. but I fired up Dragon Age:Origin and was blown away at the beauty. Stay tuned...
 
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fore1337

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Someone PM'd me about the distance I am sitting from the screen. So I snapped some pics & show the old setup. Since I have a 42" Westinghouse I tried it out for a day or two to determine whether I could stand the 37" ...a 37 feels just perfect.

I just need to resolve the silly shadow thing, which I believe is just my GPU or TV setup.

Old Setup for years:
old_setup.jpg


New Setup, TV pushed back as far as it goes ~28" from the edge of the desk.
new_setup.jpg


new_setup_sideVU.jpg
 
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