3400/3500?

B

badjoke

Gawd
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Oct 5, 2003
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is the difference between an AMD athon 64 3400+ and a 3500+ worth the difference in money
 
Yes.

3400+'s are on socket 754 which is crap becase it doesn't support dual channel ram. 3500+'s are on Socket 939, which supports Dual Channel Ram just fine.

That's why 3400's are so much cheaper than 3500's even though the speed difference is only like 2%. Ram running in Dual Channel mode is a HUGE performance boost, almost by double.

Now if you say a Socket 939 3400+ it would be different, but I'm pretty sure they dont make 3400 on socket 939's.
 
S754 is not crap =P It just doesnt have a long life left.:( (as far as upgradablilty goes)

badjoke said:
is the difference between an AMD athon 64 3400+ and a 3500+ worth the difference in money
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Jasonx82 said:
S754 is not crap =P It just doesnt have a long life left.:( (as far as upgradablilty goes)
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Hey Jason,

True, the 754 socket will not last as long as 939...but then neither will AGP...and if you go 939 right now you are getting an AGP board. Personally, I have found it rare that I would upgrade processor alone...often you need new RAM, and a new MB and then video cards are all going PCIe . So, I think the lack of future upgradability argument is slightly dubious...just my $0.02


Cheers,
DJM
 
Asus Sli Deluxe is available! right now so bah! :D and that board has PCIE and is Socket939 ;)

djm1968 said:
Hey Jason,

True, the 754 socket will not last as long as 939...but then neither will AGP...and if you go 939 right now you are getting an AGP board. Personally, I have found it rare that I would upgrade processor alone...often you need new RAM, and a new MB and then video cards are all going PCIe . So, I think the lack of future upgradability argument is slightly dubious...just my $0.02


Cheers,
DJM
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djm1968 said:
Hey Jason,

True, the 754 socket will not last as long as 939...but then neither will AGP...and if you go 939 right now you are getting an AGP board. Personally, I have found it rare that I would upgrade processor alone...often you need new RAM, and a new MB and then video cards are all going PCIe . So, I think the lack of future upgradability argument is slightly dubious...just my $0.02


Cheers,
DJM
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I agree totally. Socket “A” is still selling very well and hasn’t bitten the dust yet and I don’t think it will for a while. AGP didn’t kill the need for PCI Video cards even though they are appreciably better.

An awful lot will always depend on price point and each person’s perception of return on investment.

Lets face it, a Barton 2500 at 3200 speeds is no slouch, the move to a 3400 754 will yield a certain performance gain but at a higher price. The move from socket 754 to 939 using the RAM you need to make it run at it’s best speeds will cost an awful lot more and yields only slightly faster results.

If you have the budget to work with go for it of course, it always feels good to own the best. Keep in mind however there is no end to the upgrade path, it changes almost daily. Buy at the level where YOU are most comfortable, for many that best value is usually only one step behind the latest and greatest.

Either way, enjoy your new toys.
 
that newegg thing cannot be right, now way is there a 3400 939pin newcastle chip, nor would it be running at the same speed as the 3500.
 
Jasonx82 said:
Asus Sli Deluxe is available! right now so bah! :D and that board has PCIE and is Socket939 ;)
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Hey Jason,

Indeed, the SLI Deluxe will be available shortly...for about $250! Ouch! So, $250 for the board, $250+ for the CPU, then drop $500 on a video card...$1000 without memory. But hey it supports SLI, so later you can add another video card...only now, so much new stuff is out, say Shader 4.0, so you need to the throw out your existing video card and buy two new ones...oh, but wait, now you are CPU bound! :) Okay, you get my general point.

I recently built a new system -- a64 sct754 3200+ 1mb cache ($200), 1Gb fast memory ($240), and a chaintech nvf3-250 mb ($75), BFG 6800GT OC ($400). This was the first time I did not buy *everything* latest and greatest...I saved ALOT of cash and have a gaming rig that plays all the latest games most impressively.

Cheers,
DJM
 
Dallows said:
that newegg thing cannot be right, now way is there a 3400 939pin newcastle chip, nor would it be running at the same speed as the 3500.
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it is. i contacted amd about it a while back and they stated it was a cpu meant for system retailers. don't ask what newegg is doing selling them though
the only difference between the 3400 and 3500 (both 939) is that the 3400 "only" has an 800mhz ht link, and the 3500 has a 1ghz.

(take note that i have a 754 board rated for 800mhz, and i can do 1ghz without a problem)
 
wow, I still wouldn't buy it, lol. I'm getting the winchester 3500
 
BillR said:
AGP didn’t kill the need for PCI Video cards even though they are appreciably better.
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This isn't exactly a direct comparison. PCI video cards are still available (I use several a month at work) for multi-monitor PCs. PCIe will replace AGP quite quickly, and PCI will continue. How do I know? Because Dell are shipping office PCs with PCIe cards in them (we'll be getting our first shipment at work in January). Interestingly, they do not have PS/2 ports. Hopefully they will ship optical mice too...
 
jeffoz said:
Yes.

3400+'s are on socket 754 which is crap becase it doesn't support dual channel ram. 3500+'s are on Socket 939, which supports Dual Channel Ram just fine.

That's why 3400's are so much cheaper than 3500's even though the speed difference is only like 2%. Ram running in Dual Channel mode is a HUGE performance boost, almost by double.

Now if you say a Socket 939 3400+ it would be different, but I'm pretty sure they dont make 3400 on socket 939's.
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Way to misinform people. Double the performance? You wish.
 
well, he's not totally wrong iddqd, but 754 do suck unless you're just an average joe internet, email, word, upgrade every 4-5 years.
 
Dallows said:
well, he's not totally wrong iddqd, but 754 do suck unless you're just an average joe internet, email, word, upgrade every 4-5 years.
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Hey Dallows,

The difference in performance between 754 and 939 is about 3% -- read this article before making such broad sweeping statements.

I have a 754 3200+ oc'd to 2.3ghz, and a bfg6800GT oc, 1 Gb OCZ; and I upgrade about once per year. It really does not matter that 754 has a "limited" life -- when the time comes for another upgrade we will have PCI-e, DDR2 or 3 and dual core CPU's that are sure to require a new socket. So, new memory, MB, and cpu, vid card, and likely a new power supply...

There is absolutely no difference in game playing ability between my 754 system and a 939 system...unless you sit around and run benchmarks all day.

Read the results...Dual channel memory is not such a big deal for a64 architecture...

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=5


Cheers,
DJM
 
It does matter that 754's have limited life because not everyone upgrades every year, not everyone has the ability to upgrade to the latest and greatest. Most like to be able to buy something worth value that'll last them a long time without having to worry about upgrading. For most the 939's have better value in that because there is more being done on a 939 socket than a 754, and cpus are easier to upgrade than a whole mobo, vid card, memory and whatever else. It's easier to just go from a 3200 939 to a 4000 939 in a year or two when the prices drop. The 4000 (or whatever else they bring out) won't be that far off from the newest technology but it won't be the greatest. They can still get great performance at a good price point while not having to worry about 10 other components to upgrade as well. AMD just pushed out the 754 to get 64-bit out into the market and show they were going to top Intel, which they have done, and will continue to do.
 
Dallows said:
It does matter that 754's have limited life because not everyone upgrades every year, not everyone has the ability to upgrade to the latest and greatest. Most like to be able to buy something worth value that'll last them a long time without having to worry about upgrading. For most the 939's have better value in that because there is more being done on a 939 socket than a 754, and cpus are easier to upgrade than a whole mobo, vid card, memory and whatever else. It's easier to just go from a 3200 939 to a 4000 939 in a year or two when the prices drop. The 4000 (or whatever else they bring out) won't be that far off from the newest technology but it won't be the greatest. They can still get great performance at a good price point while not having to worry about 10 other components to upgrade as well. AMD just pushed out the 754 to get 64-bit out into the market and show they were going to top Intel, which they have done, and will continue to do.
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Well Dallows, I do not totally disagree with your statement; however, I do beleive that by the time it is worth upgrading to a significantly faster CPU, you will have to buy, at least, a new video card, to make the upgrade worth while. In 2 years, the upgrade time frame you mentioned, AMD will almost certainly have moved to a new socket. Just my $0.02...

Regards,
DJM
 
Yeah, I agree with that, but I don't think most would have a bunch of money to spend on the new stuff and a $200-$400 upgrade might be easier. And I can't say we know the future of 939, unless there's stuff I missed, but it just came out, who knows what they can do with it.
 
....Athlon 64 3400+ S939 been out for a couple of weeks now buddy...yes newegg doesnt false advertise like that...u think they would ship u something labeled 939 then when its shipped at your house its a 754 lol
 
it's called a mistake buddy, and couple of weeks is pretty new in my book. How long have the socket A's been around? the p4 478pins?
 
Zoio said:
....Athlon 64 3400+ S939 been out for a couple of weeks now buddy...yes newegg doesnt false advertise like that...u think they would ship u something labeled 939 then when its shipped at your house its a 754 lol
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much longer than that. call it like 3-4 months, if not longer.
 
The 939's have been out since july. The 90nm CPU's are a couple of months old. The 939 3400 was a special processor that was made for an OEM vendor that new egg got a hold of. Nobody else has them. Amd is going to use the 939 as their performance processors and the 754 processors as their economy processors. :D
 
Dallows said:
well, he's not totally wrong iddqd, but 754 do suck unless you're just an average joe internet, email, word, upgrade every 4-5 years.
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My ClawHammer owns your silly 3800+. 'Nuff said.
 
no, sorry, and don't try to compare an oc'd cpu to a stock one.
 
Dallows said:
no, sorry, and don't try to compare an oc'd cpu to a stock one.
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Ok, then, an oced 3700+ owns an oced 3800+'s pants. Now, go RTFM.
 
Dallows said:
no way, that's too long
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care to prove me wrong? or just disagree without any support to your thoughts? :D


iddqd said:
Ok, then, an oced 3700+ owns an oced 3800+'s pants. Now, go RTFM.
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not really, it's more that to have equivilent performance, the newcastle needs to have 5-10% faster clock speed.
and what's the manual we're reading? ;)
 
(cf)Eclipse said:
care to prove me wrong? or just disagree without any support to your thoughts? :D



not really, it's more that to have equivilent performance, the newcastle needs to have 5-10% faster clock speed.
and what's the manual we're reading? ;)
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3800+ aren't great Ocers; while 3700+ are... they can attain pretty much the same clocks; at which point it would obviously be better to have a ClawHammer, b/c of more Cache. The game turns around when we bring SOI ClawHammers, such as 4000+, or fx55 into the ring... unfortunately, there aren't any SOI products available for s754 quite yet. Can you say "3900+"? :D.

Anyway, getting s939 right now isn't the best decision. The boards are horribly immature; and not only there aren't any good Ocing boards (by good, I mean DFI :D) for s939; even if there were; you'd have to upgrade to SLi-compatible ones soon anyway, and say "Hello!" to more immature boards. Then again; the best thing to get for it, without breaking the bank on a fx55, of course would be a 3500+ NC, which can hit about 2.8-2.9. The same thing can be achieved on s754, though; with a 3700+. You also get much nicer boards; such as mine - up to 4.0 vdimm with an adjustable 3.3 line PSU.. up to 2.11vcore. up to 1.9vcc; tons of DRAM settings; CPC, built-in Memtest86+... what more could you ask for? It has all the bells'n'whistles you could possibly want.
 
well, eclipse, it just doesn't feel like it's been that long, haha. Anyway, I could be wrong but I found some crap benchs that show an oc'ed 3000+ against a stock 3500 and 3700.

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjI5LDI=

Now, it barely, and I mean barely beats the 3500 there, but not the 3700, so how do you expect it to beat a 3800 stock? I'm looking for more to back this as we speak.
 
Dallows said:
well, eclipse, it just doesn't feel like it's been that long, haha. Anyway, I could be wrong but I found some crap benchs that show an oc'ed 3000+ against a stock 3500 and 3700.

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjI5LDI=

Now, it barely, and I mean barely beats the 3500 there, but not the 3700, so how do you expect it to beat a 3800 stock? I'm looking for more to back this as we speak.
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I'm wondering what 3000+ that is... it's running at the same clock as the 3700+, and a bit faster to boot... so, it's either an NC (which suck), or a crippled CH (which, also suck).

Mine is a 3200+ CH, which is 100MHz above 3700+ (same core) stock speeds; which makes for more than the gains from dual channel. Not to mention that at stock, 3700+ and 3800+ run at the same clocl, BUT the 3800+ has 512k cache... and the extra cache amounts to more real performance than the bandwidth boons from running dual channel. I don't even know why it's PR rating is 3800+... it's obviously inferior to the 3700+... but, w/e.
 
the 3800+ is in no way inferior to the 3700+, why do you think they named them that way? You have still yet to show me prove of your claims. I tired with a shitty bench, but whatever
 
Buy me a 3700+ and a 3800+, and I will. Otherwise, just stfu. Wait, never mind - stfu in either case. Thanks?
 
dude, just because you're an immature punk and can't prove your point with real facts doesn't mean you have to be a dick.
 
I don't have to, you're the one who's trying to convince me that your shitty 754 is better than a 3800+.
 
hey hey hey, what's the meaning of this. cut it out before i report this thread and get it closed.
and why are you guys arguing over something so trivial anyhow? :D


we all know that cache and memory bandwidth are important for different kinds of tasks. this makes the newcastles somewhat more like intel chips, where they're better at streaming type things that needs lots of bandwidth, and clawhammers more like true gaming chips, cause every bit of cache and reduced latency helps a lot with games. (and video encoding)
 
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