2nd WC system with Aqua-Computer parts, need help

WarlordBB

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
390
I've just finished my very first WC setup so now I'm planning my second one :) and I've got some questions.

First, here's a pic of my current setup (no I haven't finished cleaning up and yes, it's a non-leet stock Swifty kit, I wanted to get my feet wet, pun intended):

wc_sys1.jpg


Ok, so from an admitted WC Newb, I have come up with the following definates of my next project (as long as they are doable).

First, let me say that I'm 90% sure I'm going to use 3/8" ID tubing (9.9% option for 8mm tubing, i.e. standard Aqua-Computer/Innovatek and 0.1% chance someone will change my mind and make me go 1/2" ID). Second, I'm going to use an acrylic case. Third, I'm going to use the following resevoir:

aquatube11_silver.jpg


I'm more concerned with form than function (to a degree) and that res with the aquajet option spraying on the acrylic cover is just the bee's knees. I'm planning to front mount it like the following:

aquatube_front.jpg


The other components that I'm pretty sure of are:

CPU Block:
ac_wb.jpg

I'm also considering a silvered TDX but not sure it belongs in a 3/8" ID setup.

GPU Block:
ac_gpu.jpg


PSU:
psu.jpg


Pump:
d4_sm.jpg


Now, here's were I need some [H]ard help. I've already done the Blue thing so I'm going for Chrome parts where possible and green coolant this time (hopefully I can get some help getting that GPU block chromed or re-anodized silver).

What I need help with is the Radiator and Case. I want to use at least a 120mm Radiator.

Here are my case options:

Logisys:
cs888_01.jpg

cs888_02.jpg


ClearPC:
clearpc.jpg


Sunbean:
sunbeam_01.jpg

sunbeam_02.jpg

sunbeam_03.jpg


BeanTech:
bt_01.jpg

bt_02.jpg


C3:
c3_01.jpg


For Rads I'm either going with the Aqua-Computer Rad or the Black Ice (Pro/Extreme I don't know because I don't know why you'd choose one over the other). The Rad is what I'm most flexible on because I don't really care. It can even be a dual 80mm or even 2 single 80mm as long as y'all think it will cool good enough. I also don't care if it is a dual 120mm as long as it can a) fit and b) look good.

I've found a plastics shop right near me that can either handle any acrylic job I throw at them or point me to someone that can. Some day I might be some acrylic master modder but that day ain't anytime this year so I'm gonna hand it over to the professionals.

I have a ClearPC right now so I know what to expect with it but these others are a toss up for me. As I've said, I'm willing to go with whatever will work. I know I can get the ClearPC with a either a front or top 120mm hole or rear dual 80mm holes. If I went with the ClearPC front 120mm I could mount the Res in the 5 1/4" bays. The top 120mm would be fine too. ClearPC has a "WC" option for this case that involves the Innovatek Dual Rad but according to my calcs on my current ClearPC, it would cut me too tight on the PS. Of course I could ask ClearPC to just cut me holes for a single 120mm Rad (they are great guys there). Here's a pic of their WC setup:

ClearPC WC Option:
clearpc_wc.jpg


I know C3 makes great cases and it comes stock with a front 120mm hole but I'm not real sure about them. My second choice is kinda shaping up to be a toss up between the Sunbeam and the Beantech. The Sunbeam seems to be a real solid case once you figure out how to assemble it and it comes in panels so taking it to the plastics shop won't be a big deal. Also, the Sunbeam solves the one issue I really hate about my ClearPC, the card slot screw downs and the MB I/O panel punchout. My ClearPC really doesn't have anything in that area but the Sunbeam has metal for those areas.

Anyway, I'm anxious to hear your suggestions comments about what YOU would do if you were trying to fit a 120mm Rad or better in one of these acrylic cases. I'm also anxious to order the parts :)

Feel free to give me your thoughts on my component selections as long as you don't mind me ignoring any that suggest a) I use any case that is NOT acrylic or b) I use 1/2" ID tubing (just too freakin' big to make it look nice IMHO). I'm not meaning to be rude here, it's just that I've made up my mind on those two issues.

TIA
 
Any idea how that pump will work with a 3/8 setup? Are you going to use anything to control the rate of flow? If so, what? I was thinking about the same kind of thing actually. Using some 'lower flow' parts with a 'high flow' pump, IE, the DD v12.
 
Well, from what I understand (which admittedly ain't much) the D4 is the same as the Swifty MCP 650 (or vice versa) which is just and upgraded version of my current MCP 600 which I'm running now. The Swifty kit comes with 1/2" to 3/8" reducers and everything seems to work just fine.

Of course that's not to say I _shouldn't_ use the D4/MCP650 in my planned 3/8" setup but I think I've also seem some peeps over at bit-tech that are using the D4 with AC/Innovatek parts (i.e. German/non-US).

I guess I could use the AquaExtreme pump but I think the D4 would be better (again, what do I know).

Of course on second thought, you could say I would _need_ the AquaExtreme more than usual because it has a EMI reduction option (Full Metal Jacket, hehe) but I've never bought into to that whole acrylic doesn't shield properly camp.

Edit: I'm not going to hold your sig against ya since you're a fellow [H]'er :)
 
WarlordBB said:
CPU Block:
ac_wb.jpg

I'm also considering a silvered TDX but not sure it belongs in a 3/8" ID setup.

Your current mcw6000 block is far superior to that block, keep the swiftech unit.

Also, the D4 pump is not much of an improvement over the swiftech pump you have now.

The radiator is the only thing that really needs upgrading on your current setup, go as big as possible, a dual 120 core would be awesome.
 
Actually Giblet, this is an entirely new system yet to be. In fact, I still haven't decided whether to use my P4/IC7-MAX3 setup in this new system or go A64. I've only managed to get my P4 up to 3.0 stable with Air and it seems A64's don't really OC right now so I might even go with another XP system like my current rig.

The current Swifty setup was really an experiment to see how I liked WC. Needless to say I'm hooked. The silence alone over my previous Air setup is worth it.

I've heard that the D4/MCP650 is even quieter than my MCP600 pump.

Plus, I'm really trying to get a better exposure to different pieces. In fact, I'm already thinking about my 3rd setup and it _will_ be 1/2".

Edit: Also another BIG factor is that my current mcw6000 doesn't have a lucite top. Yep, the dreaded "bling" factor ;). I look over at my Swifty setup now from time to time and I get some satisfaction from the fact that it is WC but it's just a hunk of copper. I want to SEE my block :)
 
Ok, it seems I've stalled this thread by throwing too much at y'all at once.

I've found a very cheap source for the Sunbeam case so I'm going to go ahead and order that today. Once I get it in I'll post back with some pics and questions about what kind of Rad and where to put it.

Maybe this will get some debate going.

Till then...
 
You're planning on putting the aqua computer radiator in there right? Most people seem to get the 240, but having the 360 would always be fun...
 
WarlordBB said:
Edit: Also another BIG factor is that my current mcw6000 doesn't have a lucite top. Yep, the dreaded "bling" factor ;). I look over at my Swifty setup now from time to time and I get some satisfaction from the fact that it is WC but it's just a hunk of copper. I want to SEE my block :)

the bling factor will wear off, the performance and extra $ expended will not
 
Yeah, the bling factor does wear off a bit, but I never miss an opportunity to show it off....it's still cool :D
 
I'd go with the Black Ice over the Evos, heatercores will always perform better than tubed radiators... less restriction. The EVOS look way better though.
 
Giblet Plus! said:
Your current mcw6000 block is far superior to that block, keep the swiftech unit.

based on what data ? I'd say he might lose 1 - 1.5c, which will not affect anything.

Giblet Plus! said:
Also, the D4 pump is not much of an improvement over the swiftech pump you have now.

The D4 pump isn't any improvement other than louder.

Giblet Plus! said:
The radiator is the only thing that really needs upgrading on your current setup, go as big as possible, a dual 120 core would be awesome.

An EVO240 would work great.

I don't know what you did not understand about this thread, but he is looking for Aqua-Computer parts. Everything you have said goes against the intent of this thread. :rolleyes:
 
Giblet Plus! said:
the bling factor will wear off, the performance and extra $ expended will not

Not when you get both bling and performance with Aqua-Computer setups.............

Maybe you should try harder to smash anything that isn't 1/2" ID / 3/4" OD.
 
R1ckCa1n said:
based on what data ? I'd say he might lose 1 - 1.5c, which will not affect anything.

The mcw6000 is almost on par with a white water rapids

The aqua computer blocks are at the technological level of a dangerden maze 3 or Spir@l, which have been tested at about ~2-3C worse than the white water rapids or mc6000 in a typical setup.

Regrettably, no good (overclockers.com or procooling.com) tests have been done with the aqua computer blocks yet.

Where are you getting your numbers from?
 
R1ckCa1n said:
I don't know what you did not understand about this thread, but he is looking for Aqua-Computer parts. Everything you have said goes against the intent of this thread. :rolleyes:

well duh, he already (except for the radiator) has an excellent setup, I don't see why he needs all new parts
 
If the poster wants info about Aqua parts, thats his decision. It doesnt really matter if you see why he does, or doesnt want Aqua parts, thats his choice.

If you actually read the thread, Giblet, you would notice its for another system. So he cant have "an excellent setup" for it, because he doesnt have one yet.
 
fallguy said:
If you actually read the thread, Giblet, you would notice its for another system. So he cant have "an excellent setup" for it, because he doesnt have one yet.

I did read the thread, and he didn't make that clear.
 
Well, it was clear to me when I wrote it ;)

Seriously though, I realize it is a bit ambiguous but the plan is to leave the system shown in the first picture alone for now and start to work on my second system.


the bling factor will wear off, the performance and extra $ expended will not

I've had a clear acrylic case with CCFL lights and such for several years now and the bling factor has never worn off nor diminished one bit. I spent $200 for it at a time when I had about 6 other steel ATX cases that would have worked just fine. I haven't given the extra $ expended a second thought, except when I've thought, "man I'm glad I got that case".

I just spent 30 minutes yesterday explaining to a friend's 16-year-old son who got an inheritance why a $4,000 Alienware Dual Xeon X2 is ludicrous so your concept of function over form and bang-for-buck is not complete foreign to me.

I've already ordered the case, I went with this one:
sunbeam_01.jpg


Except I saved $60 and got the one without the pre-installed LED's on the drive bays, I'll do that myself (see Giblet, I know how to save a buck too :)).

My next step, once the case arrives, is to take it to my local plastics shop and see if they can fab me a side panel that doesn't have 2 80mm blow holes in it.

Here's my thinking on why I'm choosing the parts I'm choosing:

Pump: Dangerden D4 or Swifty MCP650
Reason: I want it to be 12volt and I really like the MCP600 and I've heard that the newest D4/MCP650 (not the first batch) is quieter than the MCP600. Quiet is my main concern here.
Alternative: AC Aquastream with FMJ or another MCP600

Resevoir: Aquatube
Reason: Looks. It is the inspiration for this 2nd setup. Looks. Plus, it looks great.
Alternative: Not really considering any

Radiator: Innovatek Dual Rad
Reason: Looks and performance. It's my perception that it will cool better than a single 120mm Rad or an Evo 240.
Alternative: If it won't fit, I'll either use a BIX 120 (or BIP, is the BIX really better for my needs?) or an Evo 120.
Alternate alternative: I'll buy all of the above and compare them in a review.

CPU Block: AC Cuplex Evo 1.1
Reason: Looks. If it didn't perform on par with other decent blocks, the look factor wouldn't be worth it but keep in mind you can see _everything_ in my case. I'm definately willing to sacrafice 1 or 2c's here in order to be able to see my coolant through the side of my block. :) (unlike the MCP 6000)
Alternative: DD TDX

GPU Block: AC Aquagratix800
Reason: Show me another GPU Block for the x800 that covers the RAM too.
Alternative: I know of none

I'd be very interested in hearing your comments on my component selection and my reasoning behind each. (including yours Giblet :))

Friendly debate's what it's all about...
 
Yea, I'm going with either Tygon or Clearflex. Are they both the same as far as flexibility? I'd heard the only difference was that Tygon was rated for food use.

Keep in mind that when I heard, "the only difference is that the Tygon is rated for food use", in my mind I didn't think that Tygon took some Clearflex, printed their name on it and got it certified for food.

IOW, I wasn't naive enough to think that's the only difference, which is why I ask :)
 
On a side note, I'll tell y'all a funny little story that happened while doing my first fill of my first WC setup (the one in the first picture of this thread).

I was using the included vinyl and it wasn't really bending/going like I wanted it to but I thought everything would be fine. I had the inlet part of the tube in the jar of distilled water/water wetter/UV dye solution. It seemed to want to curl back up every so often which would make the end of the tube rise above the surface but I was managing OK.

So I start siphoning on the discharge tube trying to get the pump primed and the tube just before the pump inlet kept filling then emptying. So I siphoned harder. I was so intent on watching the pump inlet tube, I didn't see the mouthful of nasty coolant I was about to suck up. :)

So I get a mouthful of coolant, spit it out, and now gravity is causing the coolant to leak out all over me so I jump back on instinct pulling on the tube going into the container of coolant just enough to cause it to tip over...

By some miracle, no coolant got inside my system (yes, I had the motherboard hooked up because, after all, I can do this without spilling anything surely...).

Anyway, after cleaning everything up, rinsing out my mouth and then getting the system filled again, this time with a cable tied hose attached to the coolant container, I started getting all the other components install, including the UV lights.

Up to this point I haven't turned the light off though...

So, I invite my wife in and show her TADA, finally watercooling.

She says, "that's actually pretty interesting... umm, why is the carpet all wet"

Me, "well, it wasn't a completely smooth operation but I cleaned everything up".

So, later that night I'm adjust the UV lights so I can attach them and I happen to lower one of the lights near the floor...

OMG! I felt like CSI. I had no idea someone had been brutally murdered in my office ;)

Umm, does anyone know how to counteract UV reactiveness...

:)
 
WarlordBB said:
Yea, I'm going with either Tygon or Clearflex. Are they both the same as far as flexibility? I'd heard the only difference was that Tygon was rated for food use.

Keep in mind that when I heard, "the only difference is that the Tygon is rated for food use", in my mind I didn't think that Tygon took some Clearflex, printed their name on it and got it certified for food.

IOW, I wasn't naive enough to think that's the only difference, which is why I ask :)


Tygon (if you are referring to R3603), is a bit more flexible than Clearflex. The problem is, with Tygon and 3/8" ID tubing, assuming you are gonna get 1/2" OD, it is much more prone to kink than ClearFlex or MasterKleer. I wasted some money buying Tygon 3/8" tubing after I found out that the kinks were just too much. I opted for MasterKleer as it did not kink.. although Tygon looks much nicer.
 
WarlordBB said:
CPU Block: AC Cuplex Evo 1.1
Reason: Looks. If it didn't perform on par with other decent blocks, the look factor wouldn't be worth it but keep in mind you can see _everything_ in my case. I'm definately willing to sacrafice 1 or 2c's here in order to be able to see my coolant through the side of my block. :) (unlike the MCP 6000)
Alternative: DD TDX

you should also check out the plexi topped white water rapids at Dtekcustoms, it performs better than the cuplex or tdx, I believe it is $50.

dtek_ww_block.jpg
 
quicksilverXP said:
Tygon (if you are referring to R3603), is a bit more flexible than Clearflex. The problem is, with Tygon and 3/8" ID tubing, assuming you are gonna get 1/2" OD, it is much more prone to kink than ClearFlex or MasterKleer. I wasted some money buying Tygon 3/8" tubing after I found out that the kinks were just too much. I opted for MasterKleer as it did not kink.. although Tygon looks much nicer.

check out the 3/8" ID 5/8" OD clearflex from www.mcmaster.com, I have some and it is virtually impossible to kink. On their site it is called "chemical pvc tubing" and is .49 cents a foot.
 
Thanks for the tip on tubing Giblet, at 5/8" OD it must have some serious walls (hence the no kink I suspect).

Also, thanks for the suggestion on the WW but I just don't really want to do the Y thing (may be a stupid reason but...).

If I didn't use the AC Waterblock my second choice would be the lucite topped silvered version of the TDX which is even more money than the AC one.

(Your suggestion of the WW did cause me to go look at the PC interactive comparison again. Man the 6000 and 6002 sure do perform. They need to get some bling on those things :))

Anyway, while I was at DTek looking at the WW I noticed their Pro-Core heatercore based Rads and it got me thinking. Which do you think would perform better using 3/8" out of the following:

Innovatek Dual Rad
AC Evo 240 Rad
BIX 120
BIP 120
DTek Pro-Core

This is assuming all Rad's are shrouded and I'm using the D4/MCP650 (which is quieter than the MCP 600, right?)
 
I really like the EVO240 radiator. I also have a Dtek Pro Rad and JR120 if you want ;) Hell, I have two WW's (new and old revision), a Spiral, and TC-4 REV2 :p

I can give you a serious list of Danger Den crap I have in my garage too...... I would go with the Swiftech pump, just to avoid putting money in DD's pocket :mad:
 
WarlordBB said:
Anyway, while I was at DTek looking at the WW I noticed their Pro-Core heatercore based Rads and it got me thinking. Which do you think would perform better using 3/8" out of the following:

Innovatek Dual Rad
AC Evo 240 Rad
BIX 120
BIP 120
DTek Pro-Core

This is assuming all Rad's are shrouded and I'm using the D4/MCP650 (which is quieter than the MCP 600, right?)

Dtek Pro Core is the least resistant and best performing of all of those, followed by the Black Ice Extreme. I'm not sure about the EVO since it'sa tubed radiator... but it definitely wins on loooks.
 
WarlordBB said:
Also, thanks for the suggestion on the WW but I just don't really want to do the Y thing (may be a stupid reason but...).

I don't like the Y either, which is why I don't have one on my new setup. Instead, I have an extra return on my heatercore. :D
 
Giblet Plus! said:
check out the 3/8" ID 5/8" OD clearflex from www.mcmaster.com, I have some and it is virtually impossible to kink. On their site it is called "chemical pvc tubing" and is .49 cents a foot.

do you tihnk the same goes for teh 1/2" stuff?
How flexible is the masterkleer tubing?
Also the antibacterial tubing looks very interesting

(I've been looking into it for a while but cannot decide on my own)
 
DryFire said:
do you tihnk the same goes for teh 1/2" stuff?
How flexible is the masterkleer tubing?
Also the antibacterial tubing looks very interesting

(I've been looking into it for a while but cannot decide on my own)

Yes, I have 1/2" ID 3/4" OD tubing from there that is really Clearflex 60.

Masterkleer is supposed to be at least comparable to clearflex, but I don't have experience with it.
 
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