2nd Gen HBM2 Aquabolt Starts Mass Production

Discussion in '[H]ard|OCP Front Page News' started by Kyle_Bennett, Jan 11, 2018.

  1. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

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    While I am a bit unsure of the "Aquabolt" name, there is no doubt that HBM is finding its place in the industry, and now HBM2 is in production by Samsung. HBM2 will deliver 2.4Gbps per pin at 1.2v, compared to the original HBM's transfer rate of 1.6Gbps at 1.2v. The improvement equates to a overall transfer rate of 307GBps. Other improvements include and increased number of thermal bumps which should provide better cooling and an additional protective layer at the bottom which will give the package better overall physical strength to protect it from damage.

    With these improvements, a single Samsung 8GB HBM2 package will offer a 307 gigabytes-per-second (GBps) data bandwidth, achieving 9.6 times faster data transmission than an 8 gigabit (Gb) GDDR5 chip, which provides a 32GBps data bandwidth.* Using four of the new HBM2 packages in a system will enable a 1.2 terabytes-per-second (TBps) bandwidth., which will improve overall system performance by as much as 50 percent, compared to a system that uses a 1.6Gbps HBM2.
     
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  2. Dekar12

    Dekar12 Gawd

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    That is some serious bandwidth!
     
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  3. Riccochet

    Riccochet Off Topic Award

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    Is it even possible to saturate a memory bus with that much bandwidth?
     
  4. motomonkey

    motomonkey [H]ard|Gawd

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    Porn.

    You can always "saturate" something with porn
     
  5. THRESHIN

    THRESHIN 2[H]4U

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    I know this is mostly aimed at graphics cards, but I do hope samsung has some plans to bring this to system ram.
     
  6. 1_rick

    1_rick Limp Gawd

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    Was coming here to say/wonder the same thing. Might need a different form factor than DDRx DIMMS? One of the things I remember from the original HBM announcements was that it was going to use a ridiculously-wide data bus: hundreds of address lines, not a 64-bit bus as is typical.
     
  7. kring

    kring Limp Gawd

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    Man, I really hope Nvidia comes out with this in the next-gen high end card, 1080ti was a nice boost and it got me to upgrade most my other components, but now it doesn't really allow me to max out.. I'm ready to upgrade to the next level (titans are just not worth it for very little gain).

    I too keep waiting for better RAM options, DDR4 is what 8 years old and has actually regressed in performance across that time? we use to have 2100 speeds but CL9's, now we see 4000 but CL 27 while the price rises... I'm on my 20th year waiting for the BIOS to die, and 30th year for the motherboard to change. long live ancient-ATX - following those trends we'll see DDR4 around for next 60+ years in same form factor.
     
  8. freeloader1969

    freeloader1969 2[H]4U

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    AMD should've went for a small royalty fee for every HBM/HBM2 chip made.
     
  9. defaultluser

    defaultluser I B Smart

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    AMD doesn't supply any of the know-how needed to develop a ram standard. They just supply the purchase order (guaranteed design win for Fiji) and the desired requirements. And of course the test time to debug the new HBM controller and the interface with the new chips.

    A small tech company like AMD has the barest knowledge of how to make a memory chip fast, as cheap as it can be and low-power. They can barely compete in two major markets at once.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  10. DPI

    DPI Nitpick Police

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    You're confused.
     
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  11. freeloader1969

    freeloader1969 2[H]4U

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    Did AMD not co-develop HBM with Hynix?

    https://www.kitguru.net/components/...ng-usage-of-hbm-and-do-not-collect-royalties/
     
  12. mesyn191

    mesyn191 2[H]4U

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    3D VR porn @ 144hz +4K res will do it ez
     
  13. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    No.
     
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  14. noko

    noko 2[H]4U

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    AMD invented HBM, well at least that is what they claimed and worked with Jedec to standardize it.

     
  15. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    Hynix doesnt even mention AMD in their papers. Being willing to be the first customer and co developing is quite different. AMD havent made a memory controller either for ages because they are unable. They license 3rd party designs.

    It´s about equal to claim that Nvidia developed GDDR5X and GDDR6.
     
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  16. noko

    noko 2[H]4U

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    AMD started the ball rolling, has patents, worked with Hynix and Jedec. Who cares what Hynix mentions now, it is Jedec standard which others can use to promote industrial growth overall.
     
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  17. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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  18. noko

    noko 2[H]4U

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    Just shows AMD way more competent than Intel and others in coming up with new technology and getting it implemented. Can't create a memory controller :LOL:, no need to go there.
     
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  19. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    See my edited post. AMD isn´t even mentioned in the source for the wiki.

    So try again. :)
     
  20. noko

    noko 2[H]4U

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    Trivial and once again who cares if AMD is mentioned or not - HBM was started by AMD and finished with AMD. Anyways the bigger question is who is Samsung making this rather fast HBM2 memory for? Nvidia already has their Volta V100 designs down, AMD? someone else? Since production has started who is going to use it???

    My best guess is the refreshed Vega 12nm cards coming up.
     
  21. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    Then why you claim it? :)

    FPGAs for once. And dont you mean "7nm" Vega cards? But that's far away,

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  22. Armenius

    Armenius [H]ardForum Junkie

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    If you take HBM off of the interposer the latency would be too much compared to DRAM. HBM system memory would mean no longer being able to upgrade and/or expand without replacing the CPU.
     
  23. freeloader1969

    freeloader1969 2[H]4U

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  24. Maxx

    Maxx [H]ard|Gawd

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    Not to be confused with Thunderbolt!
     
  25. DigitalGriffin

    DigitalGriffin [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yes but 12 GDDR5 chips working on a appropriately wide bus can go just as fast or faster. The problem is it's much more expensive to design a board with a bus that wide.
     
  26. DigitalGriffin

    DigitalGriffin [H]ardness Supreme

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    Due to the way it works, it's not so good with system ram. HBM likes sequential access, not random. And despite what someone claimed earlier, access to HBM does come with a bit of initial latency as it's streamed out serially. However GDDR5 ram has other latency issues due to trace length differences and distance from the core/memory controller.
     
  27. DigitalGriffin

    DigitalGriffin [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well seems to me AMD was the FIRST to put a memory controller onto the CPU which kicked intel's rear end at the time.

    BUT let me ask you a question....Can you write an algorithm that does better than n-log n on sorting a list? If you say "No" you kind of made my point. Others who make memory controllers have them in such an optimized state and patented, it would be cost prohibitive to design a new one from the ground up that may or may not have a slight advantage. So you just license circuit libraries.
     
  28. DigitalGriffin

    DigitalGriffin [H]ardness Supreme

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    This I agree with. The silicon path traces of the interposer keep the electrons from slowing down. As you transition from one material to another, there are resistive and capacitive differences. Whenever traveling electrons hit this difference, heat is exchanged and there is a partial reflection of current (signal direction) Keeping it a homogenous material from A->Z helps keep bandwidth the same.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  29. noko

    noko 2[H]4U

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    Come on folks, AMD/RTG design memory controllers all the time, some just don't know what they are talking about. High bandwidth cache controller is -> A MEMORY CONTROLLER and probably one of the most advanced ones ever design as well. Every AMD/RTG card memory controller, HBM memory controller which was used starting with Fuji was done by AMD (now part of HBM standard) and that design is used as well in Nvidia P100 -> V100. Time to move on.

    If Aquabolt is in production -> meaning it is schedule to be bought and used -> Who? and for What?. Unless Nvidia is going to use a configuration similar to Vega, as in a dual stack of HBM2 for their high end gaming Volta cards (very much possible) and keeping the DDR6 for the lower end cards or a mystery design from someone with $ (Apple?) using this high speed HBM2 -> Sounds more like AMD/RTG.

    As a note with Vega, mining is mostly limited by memory speeds (severely) and not the GPU compute capability -> So I can see RTG upping their overall compute ability in something, not sure if it would be a gaming card.
     
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