290 CF vs 7970 CF - decent upgrade?

[Shocked]

I'm debating upgrading my 7970s in 1-3 months, and thought the 290s looked like a decent option. The plan was to stick the old cards in my old i7 920 rig and have a go at bit mining or just sell them off.

I'm not really partial to AMD, I probably would only have considered SLI had AMD not improved their frame pacing considerably, but I want to say the 290s look like a more attractive option than the GTX 770s (which honestly looks like it would be more of a side grade) and can be had cheaper than the vanilla GTX 780's.

I'm only gaming at 1080p at the moment, but trying to push 120 Hz, and while my 7970s are hardly doing a terrible job, I'm starting to feel that upgrade itch. Plus, want to be prepared for DA:I and other upcoming PC games.

Worthwhile upgrade or wait until Maxwell/Pirate Islands?

One thing to note is that neither of my 7970s are great overclockers, at least not considering the temps they already hit at stock. They're both using the reference cooler and anything more than the default fan speed just sounds like a jet engine. I've just had them sitting at their default clocks (one core 1010, the other 925 and both stock 1375 mem) because it's been more hassle than it's worth ever since I added the second card into the mix. So ideally we're comparing that with 2x 290s with aftermarket coolers and factory overclocks, something like this I would imagine.

It's being paired with a 4.2 GHz 4770k. I've managed to find a few reviews comparing it with a 7990 or 280x CF but not sure I'm getting the whole picture, especially if 290 CF scaling has been improved upon at all in more recent driver revisions than these reviews are reflecting. This TechPowerUp review for instance, doesn't always paint a pretty picture in terms of performance gains of 290x CF vs a 7990 in several games. Not sure if that was immature drivers or a CPU bottleneck. Though I think Anand's GPU bench looks more favorable (again testing 290x CF since 290 CF doesn't seem to be included).

 

[JoeOnePack]

From the testing I've done, CF 290's are approximately 30% faster than CF 7970's.

 

[NukeDukem]

It was a huge upgrade for me going from dual 7970's at 1080p 120Hz to dual 290's at 1440p 120Hz. For instance I am replaying Tomb Raider on my current setup, and I find the 290's run the game MUCH more smoothly at 1440p than the 7970's did at 1080p!

So yes, the R9 290 CFX is far superior to HD 7970 CFX, moreso than single 290 vs single 7970, but you are certainly not going to notice as big a difference at 1080p [even if it's 120Hz].

 

[SonDa5]

I'd go single 290x and enjoy more reliable similar performance to what you have now and save money for next gen.

The vapor x and lightning cards are built to over clock and I think they would be good choices for a single high quality 290x. When next gen comes you can upgrade or get a good deal on 290x for crossfire.

 

[Shocked]

It was a huge upgrade for me going from dual 7970's at 1080p 120Hz to dual 290's at 1440p 120Hz. For instance I am replaying Tomb Raider on my current setup, and I find the 290's run the game MUCH more smoothly at 1440p than the 7970's did at 1080p!

So yes, the R9 290 CFX is far superior to HD 7970 CFX, moreso than single 290 vs single 7970, but you are certainly not going to notice as big a difference at 1080p [even if it's 120Hz].

I've thought about going 1440p, specifically one of those monitors like the Tempest that you can reasonably overclock. Thing that's kind of holding me back is I'm trying to get a capture card for another computer to record gameplay, and I kind of doubt I'll find an affordable one that will accept 1440p.

I feel like I can probably push this 4770k to 4.4 or 4.5 if I become CPU limited at 1080p, though that's not a huge difference. I've been a lazy overclocker, I only hit 70C @ 1.295V in worst-case scenario (Prime95) and nowhere even close in real world usage but I have to play with it more. But I was kind of anticipating the gap to widen at 1080p as games get more demanding.

I'd go single 290x and enjoy more reliable similar performance to what you have now and save money for next gen.

The vapor x and lightning cards are built to over clock and I think they would be good choices for a single high quality 290x. When next gen comes you can upgrade or get a good deal on 290x for crossfire.

I'd probably just wait in that case, that seems like a downgrade except in games that don't like Crossfire (or barring a pretty good OC maybe), but to be honest I've been pretty happy with how well Crossfire has worked for me since AMD worked to improve it lately.

 

[WildMonkey]

I see no benefit in going 290x vs 290. Isn't it overall like a 1-5 fps increase for a $200 premium?

 

[NukeDukem]

Considering your resolution and refresh rate, overclocking that CPU to the 4.6 range is indeed the single best thing you CAN do without spending a dime (considering you have some kind of aftermarket cooling for it). Sorry I didn't mention that earlier but that's a real given. You may be better off just getting some nice cooling for your 4770k and pushing that OC.

 

[Relayer]

Hawaii is superior in crossfire to Tahiti with the new crossfire system. Add to that the increased speed and it's a substantial improvement.

 

[Shocked]

I see no benefit in going 290x vs 290. Isn't it overall like a 1-5 fps increase for a $200 premium?

That's kind of what I was seeing in benchmarks, and a guy on another forum I frequent said he barely saw a difference when he downgraded from a 290x to a 290.

Considering your resolution and refresh rate, overclocking that CPU to the 4.6 range is indeed the single best thing you CAN do without spending a dime (considering you have some kind of aftermarket cooling for it). Sorry I didn't mention that earlier but that's a real given. You may be better off just getting some nice cooling for your 4770k and pushing that OC.

I already have custom 120.3 watercooling cooling nothing but the CPU (don't have enough room in my case for enough watercooling for the CPU + 2 GPUs, so I just let it have everything). Just haven't taken it very far. Almost taken 1.3V to get it stable at 4.2 GHz already so I'm not sure I really have a decent chip, but I can push the volts a bit higher, maybe into the ~1.375 range and still feel comfortable. Not terribly optimistic though.

Hawaii is superior in crossfire to Tahiti with the new crossfire system. Add to that the increased speed and it's a substantial improvement.

That's kind of what I was thinking, and not only is each 290 significantly faster than each 7970 but add that factory OC on top and that's a pretty big leap. Should be future proof for a long while so long as 4GB holds up (I doubt I'll do eyefinity anytime soon, though it's semi-possible).

 

[Relayer]

4 Gig should handle 1080 for quite sometime. Especially at settings that will allow ~120Hz gaming.

 

[Pylor]

Lots of responses here but one question I haven't seen is this: What is your goal OP? You're trying to hit 120FPS in 1080p, correct? Are there any games you're struggling to get over 60FPS on? I can't imagine there is as long as crossfire support is there.

As far as OCing, do you have a lower x16 physical pci-e slot you can move the second card to and still use crossfire? It's been a long time since I used crossfire but I would think that as long as the cable could reach the difference in spacing would allow a lot better cooling. I have a reference 7970 and I know what you mean about them getting loud sometimes. In my case I have a little slot that blows a 120mm noctua fan right on them using air coming from a 200mm fan in the front, and then on the window I have a 200mm fan helping to push cool air and the thing can still get decently loud if I don't keep it cleaned out. 7970s love engine OCs, they really thrive with it, and even memory OCs can help decently with minimal heat increase (engine is really where they start gaining the FPS though).

Is it just the itch to upgrade that's gripping you? Believe me, I can understand that. If you have the reference 7970s you probably bought around the same time I did which means that you've had those cards probably 2 and a half years, which is a longgggg time to own anything like a graphics card without upgrade.

As for mining, it's one of those things that is always in flux. Look at how many miners are selling their cards right now, it was a fun excursion at first, but it's been work keeping up with all the new algorithms and which one happens to be making money this week.

Dragons age inquisition will likely be able to be completely crushed by crossfired 7970s, I don't think even my single 7970 will have problems maxing it out with a decent framerate. Remember they're developing primarily for consoles now instead of PC like with DA:O. Being in a similar position (without the crossfire) I've opted to sit and wait for new cards. Primarily I'm waiting for new monitors with freesync, 1440p IPS @ 120hz, or atleast something around 90hz, THAT is when I'll hopefully be able to upgrade to a card/setup designed specifically for that resolution. Things like 4k are still too far off for my tastes.

 

[Shocked]

4 Gig should handle 1080 for quite sometime. Especially at settings that will allow ~120Hz gaming.

Not so concerned with it that I want to sacrifice settings, but it would be nice to get as close as I can.

I've really enjoyed this 120 Hz monitor. It doesn't look as good as my old IPS, but I find gaming on it has been so much more smooth and a better overall experience.

Lots of responses here but one question I haven't seen is this: What is your goal OP? You're trying to hit 120FPS in 1080p, correct? Are there any games you're struggling to get over 60FPS on? I can't imagine there is as long as crossfire support is there.

As far as OCing, do you have a lower x16 physical pci-e slot you can move the second card to and still use crossfire? It's been a long time since I used crossfire but I would think that as long as the cable could reach the difference in spacing would allow a lot better cooling. I have a reference 7970 and I know what you mean about them getting loud sometimes. In my case I have a little slot that blows a 120mm noctua fan right on them using air coming from a 200mm fan in the front, and then on the window I have a 200mm fan helping to push cool air and the thing can still get decently loud if I don't keep it cleaned out. 7970s love engine OCs, they really thrive with it, and even memory OCs can help decently with minimal heat increase (engine is really where they start gaining the FPS though).

Is it just the itch to upgrade that's gripping you? Believe me, I can understand that. If you have the reference 7970s you probably bought around the same time I did which means that you've had those cards probably 2 and a half years, which is a longgggg time to own anything like a graphics card without upgrade.

As for mining, it's one of those things that is always in flux. Look at how many miners are selling their cards right now, it was a fun excursion at first, but it's been work keeping up with all the new algorithms and which one happens to be making money this week.

Dragons age inquisition will likely be able to be completely crushed by crossfired 7970s, I don't think even my single 7970 will have problems maxing it out with a decent framerate. Remember they're developing primarily for consoles now instead of PC like with DA:O. Being in a similar position (without the crossfire) I've opted to sit and wait for new cards. Primarily I'm waiting for new monitors with freesync, 1440p IPS @ 120hz, or atleast something around 90hz, THAT is when I'll hopefully be able to upgrade to a card/setup designed specifically for that resolution. Things like 4k are still too far off for my tastes.

Well, one of them is a day-1 launch card, the other I actually bought ~21 months ago. I figured the reference cooler might be noisy but at least it blows hot air out of the case. In hindsight, I probably should have gone with one with an aftermarket cooler and bought an aftermarket cooler to stick on the first one as well.

And yeah, I don't think there have been too many occasions where I've had the same graphics cards for more than two years. Probably the last time was my SLI'd 7800 GTX's.

I think the bottom slot is too far for my Crossfire bridges to reach. I have an NZXT Switch 810 which isn't really known for great GPU temps to begin with, but it was pretty much the easiest case for me to install this 120.3 w/ integrated res internally while retaining easy access to the fillport without the need to modify the case. But a side panel fan probably would have been nice.

Curious if they're selling their cards because it's no longer as profitable or it's just too much work? I wasn't dead set on mining just hate the hassle of selling old hardware, but it's not an issue if that's what it comes down to.

 

[Pylor]

Well, one of them is a day-1 launch card, the other I actually bought ~21 months ago. I figured the reference cooler might be noisy but at least it blows hot air out of the case. In hindsight, I probably should have gone with one with an aftermarket cooler and bought an aftermarket cooler to stick on the first one as well.

And yeah, I don't think there have been too many occasions where I've had the same graphics cards for more than two years. Probably the last time was my SLI'd 7800 GTX's.

I think the bottom slot is too far for my Crossfire bridges to reach. I have an NZXT Switch 810 which isn't really known for great GPU temps to begin with, but it was pretty much the easiest case for me to install this 120.3 w/ integrated res internally while retaining easy access to the fillport without the need to modify the case. But a side panel fan probably would have been nice.

Curious if they're selling their cards because it's no longer as profitable or it's just too much work? I wasn't dead set on mining just hate the hassle of selling old hardware, but it's not an issue if that's what it comes down to.

In my experience your first thought was correct with custom coolers. Aside from the water cooling blocks (AIO or not), most of them seem to just push the air around the case; my MSI gaming card seems to aim most of its air upwards which works out nicely for me. Some cards are better than others, but if you look at the back grill, some of them barely have any room for air to leave at all. Reference cards don't have that problem, but the fans that they do have are a bit on the louder/higher RPM side.

I'm sure they have crossfire connectors that are longer, but if that's not something you'd want to invest in (which I wouldn't blame you), you could possibly do a case mod. Are you handy with a dremmel, or atleast have a friend/family member who is? I have a CM storm that has a similar acrylic pane and, with a little help, I cut out room for a 120mm fan, put a very clean looking black fan filter and a noctua 120mm on it, and it really brings a lot of fresh air in the case.

As for why people quit mining, it's probably a little of both. A lot of the craze occured in December with Litecoin and continued through Dogecoin and started puttering out. People were buying tons of cards thinking "Well at this rate I'll have all my cards paid off in 3 months!" and so on and so forth. Profits went down a bit, summer hit and the heat was too much so people switched to X11 and X13, and now there's a new coin every 5 minutes it seems.

 

[Shocked]

In my experience your first thought was correct with custom coolers. Aside from the water cooling blocks (AIO or not), most of them seem to just push the air around the case; my MSI gaming card seems to aim most of its air upwards which works out nicely for me. Some cards are better than others, but if you look at the back grill, some of them barely have any room for air to leave at all. Reference cards don't have that problem, but the fans that they do have are a bit on the louder/higher RPM side.

I'm sure they have crossfire connectors that are longer, but if that's not something you'd want to invest in (which I wouldn't blame you), you could possibly do a case mod. Are you handy with a dremmel, or atleast have a friend/family member who is? I have a CM storm that has a similar acrylic pane and, with a little help, I cut out room for a 120mm fan, put a very clean looking black fan filter and a noctua 120mm on it, and it really brings a lot of fresh air in the case.

As for why people quit mining, it's probably a little of both. A lot of the craze occured in December with Litecoin and continued through Dogecoin and started puttering out. People were buying tons of cards thinking "Well at this rate I'll have all my cards paid off in 3 months!" and so on and so forth. Profits went down a bit, summer hit and the heat was too much so people switched to X11 and X13, and now there's a new coin every 5 minutes it seems.

I actually did mod my old Antec P182 a number of years ago to fit a few 120mm fans on the side panel. I think the circle blade we used was pretty expensive though and that was for only 120mms, I'd probably want a much larger fan this time. But, I get the impression now especially if I did upgrade to 290s with aftermarket coolers, or whatever I decide to get later on down the road if I wait, I'd definitely want to do that for the sake of pulling that hot air out of the case (I probably have enough fresh air being sucked in through the top via the 3x 110 CFM 120mm fans on my radiator). I'd be cutting through the side panel window, not entirely sure what it's made of, plastic or acrylic or something.

Still, I don't know how much it would help in terms of OCing my 7970s. I remember when they first came out the craze was all about how well they overclocked, and mine looked promising at first. I have a high ASIC card so I just increased the voltage to the common default of 1.175V, but by then the card was already running pretty hot and requiring a louder custom fan profile (even in a single-card configuration in a HAF-X which has much better airflow). I thought it was stable at 1175 on the core but kept having to back it down after extended gaming sessions all the way down to 1050. But it's certainly not going to do that on its stock voltage I don't think, and I think stock voltage is the only option pretty much no matter what I do at the moment. The second card might do better but I never actually bothered toying with it after I saw the heat increase in CF.

 

[Rogue_Apprentice]

Having gone from two 7970s in Xfire to two 290x's in Xfire I can say it is a nice upgrade. I started out with 3 1080p monitors in eyefinity but now, just after getting my second 290x I switched to a single 1440p display. I couldn't be happier. No more messing with config files to get games to work in eyefinity and I can't ever see going back to 1080p.

As far as the cards now I don't think I really need the second 290x to push the single display and it is noisy as all get out. Stock coolers. If I deactivate Xfire I can still run any game at over 60FPS but I kinda like having the second one there just in case something comes along that pushes it. Or on the off chance Planetside 2 decides to go DX11 and support Xfire....One can dream

 

[Pylor]

I actually did mod my old Antec P182 a number of years ago to fit a few 120mm fans on the side panel. I think the circle blade we used was pretty expensive though and that was for only 120mms, I'd probably want a much larger fan this time. But, I get the impression now especially if I did upgrade to 290s with aftermarket coolers, or whatever I decide to get later on down the road if I wait, I'd definitely want to do that for the sake of pulling that hot air out of the case (I probably have enough fresh air being sucked in through the top via the 3x 110 CFM 120mm fans on my radiator). I'd be cutting through the side panel window, not entirely sure what it's made of, plastic or acrylic or something.

Still, I don't know how much it would help in terms of OCing my 7970s. I remember when they first came out the craze was all about how well they overclocked, and mine looked promising at first. I have a high ASIC card so I just increased the voltage to the common default of 1.175V, but by then the card was already running pretty hot and requiring a louder custom fan profile (even in a single-card configuration in a HAF-X which has much better airflow). I thought it was stable at 1175 on the core but kept having to back it down after extended gaming sessions all the way down to 1050. But it's certainly not going to do that on its stock voltage I don't think, and I think stock voltage is the only option pretty much no matter what I do at the moment. The second card might do better but I never actually bothered toying with it after I saw the heat increase in CF.

I might be reading wrong, but do you have a rad of some sort pulling air into the case? I've seen people doing that but I never followed it; why not suck air from inside the case out using the rad? Just seems to me that you'd be pumping hotter-than-ambient air into your case that way, but maybe I'm thinking about it differently. Personally, my setups have the fronts and windows as intakes, then everything exhausts out the back and top. My H100i sucks out the case and pushes out the top of the case.

That being said, I just mentioned modding the side of the case for specific flow of fresh air. The idea was to push fresh air between those cards, ideally getting it to the intake fans (particularly the top card as those are usually the hottest). Was your OCing attempts done before you got the second card? That seems like a lot of throttling for such a low voltage setting. My 7970 was never considered a high overclocker, it could do somewhere around 1100 engine and 1575 memory at stock (1.175v) voltage, and I never got more from it from increasing voltage. That being said, the overclock is still ~16% improvement from engine clock.

As to what the other poster said, I'd imagine upgrading to two much newer cards would be a big upgrade, but I still think OP might be better working with what he has for now and saving that until the new cards come out. I'd probably be saying something different if we weren't being supported with all new driver updates in terms of performance increases, but the 7970-now-280X is still a "current generation" card thanks to the rebadging so there is a push for support. That and he doesn't really seem to have much of a problem aside from overheating cards.

 

[Shocked]

I might be reading wrong, but do you have a rad of some sort pulling air into the case? I've seen people doing that but I never followed it; why not suck air from inside the case out using the rad? Just seems to me that you'd be pumping hotter-than-ambient air into your case that way, but maybe I'm thinking about it differently. Personally, my setups have the fronts and windows as intakes, then everything exhausts out the back and top. My H100i sucks out the case and pushes out the top of the case.

That being said, I just mentioned modding the side of the case for specific flow of fresh air. The idea was to push fresh air between those cards, ideally getting it to the intake fans (particularly the top card as those are usually the hottest). Was your OCing attempts done before you got the second card? That seems like a lot of throttling for such a low voltage setting. My 7970 was never considered a high overclocker, it could do somewhere around 1100 engine and 1575 memory at stock (1.175v) voltage, and I never got more from it from increasing voltage. That being said, the overclock is still ~16% improvement from engine clock.

As to what the other poster said, I'd imagine upgrading to two much newer cards would be a big upgrade, but I still think OP might be better working with what he has for now and saving that until the new cards come out. I'd probably be saying something different if we weren't being supported with all new driver updates in terms of performance increases, but the 7970-now-280X is still a "current generation" card thanks to the rebadging so there is a push for support. That and he doesn't really seem to have much of a problem aside from overheating cards.

I just stuck them in the configuration a guy at Swiftech tech support (who has the same case and radiator) recommended, which is push configuration sucking air down and pushing it into the case. I could try swapping it into pull configuration, but mounting this radiator and getting the fans aligned the first time was a massive pain I'm hoping I don't have to relive anytime soon.

Yeah, that overclocking attempt was before the second card

 

[Pylor]

I just stuck them in the configuration a guy at Swiftech tech support (who has the same case and radiator) recommended, which is push configuration sucking air down and pushing it into the case. I could try swapping it into pull configuration, but mounting this radiator and getting the fans aligned the first time was a massive pain I'm hoping I don't have to relive anytime soon.

Yeah, that overclocking attempt was before the second card

Some others might chime in, it's probably not the worst thing ever, but that you couldn't OC your card practically at all even with just one 7970 is odd and would suggest poor air circulation. Due to being less dense, hot air naturally rises over cold air, and although it's probably not a huge deal in terms of something as small as a computer case, I've always preferred pushing from the front and side (at the bottom areas) and then sucking out the air in the back and top. With reference cards most of the air is sucked out through the card and out the back. The fact that you're having overheating problems with just one card OCing might indicate a change is needed. It would seem as though the air "feeding" the 7970 is either just not reaching it (resulting in stagnant hot air around it) or the air that is reaching the card is warmer than it should be. If 7970s are overheating, a 290 will just be worse as it dissipates even more heat. Do you remember what your temps were before having a second card?

Again, this is just my opinion, take it with a grain of salt. Others might have differing opinions.

 

[ebduncan]

I went from 7950 Crossfire to a Single R9-290 under water.

Performance is the same. I would get a few more FPS with the 7950's in crossfire, but the FPS wasn't very steady. Overall the Average FPS is around the same with both setups. Giving me a better game play experience as the game play is smoother with a single card setup.

7970's are faster than 7950's but its like what 5%? same deal with the 290 vs 290x. Overall Crossfire 290's can handle any game at what ever resolution your trying to run.

 

[Shocked]

Some others might chime in, it's probably not the worst thing ever, but that you couldn't OC your card practically at all even with just one 7970 is odd and would suggest poor air circulation. Due to being less dense, hot air naturally rises over cold air, and although it's probably not a huge deal in terms of something as small as a computer case, I've always preferred pushing from the front and side (at the bottom areas) and then sucking out the air in the back and top. With reference cards most of the air is sucked out through the card and out the back. The fact that you're having overheating problems with just one card OCing might indicate a change is needed. It would seem as though the air "feeding" the 7970 is either just not reaching it (resulting in stagnant hot air around it) or the air that is reaching the card is warmer than it should be. If 7970s are overheating, a 290 will just be worse as it dissipates even more heat. Do you remember what your temps were before having a second card?

Again, this is just my opinion, take it with a grain of salt. Others might have differing opinions.

Well, like I mentioned, when I had a single 7970 that was back when I was using a HAF-X which had much better airflow than the NZXT Switch 810 I'm using now so I can't really compare. I didn't have the radiator back then either (strictly air cooling). I was still surprised how hot the card ran, though.

 

[Deacon_Jones1988]

For my upgrades I always try to skip a generation. I didn't last time because I had the "upgrade itch". I went from single 6950 to 2x7970. I like skipping a generation for the performance jump alone. Unless I have an immediate demand for new hardware I always stick to that logic. But it depends on your preference, or rather : "Whatever floats your boat."

Stay [H]

 

[ccityinstaller]

Some others might chime in, it's probably not the worst thing ever, but that you couldn't OC your card practically at all even with just one 7970 is odd and would suggest poor air circulation. Due to being less dense, hot air naturally rises over cold air, and although it's probably not a huge deal in terms of something as small as a computer case, I've always preferred pushing from the front and side (at the bottom areas) and then sucking out the air in the back and top. With reference cards most of the air is sucked out through the card and out the back. The fact that you're having overheating problems with just one card OCing might indicate a change is needed. It would seem as though the air "feeding" the 7970 is either just not reaching it (resulting in stagnant hot air around it) or the air that is reaching the card is warmer than it should be. If 7970s are overheating, a 290 will just be worse as it dissipates even more heat. Do you remember what your temps were before having a second card?

Again, this is just my opinion, take it with a grain of salt. Others might have differing opinions.

Positive air pressure is more important in WC'd setups, and the easiest way to get that is with the top/front radiator fans pulling air in. I have a 3X120 up top and a 230mm rad in the front, all with a single 120mm exhaust fan. Having both rads pulling cold air into the case yielded much better temperatures then using them as exhaust. I have found this to be true on every WC'd build I have done.

 

[Activate: AMD]

I just went from 7970 CF to 290X CF. Both setups are/were water cooled and I'm not seeing any meaningful performance increase in BF4 @ 1440P. I'm really starting to think something is wrong with my setup now