24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.

flod said:
that would be what the matte films on some lcd monitors do. From the pictures the trinitron films don't seem to be doing that but I guess I can't be sure without having the film myself.
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What about those photos are you using to make these deductions?
 
Keep in mind that any given material has transmittance characteristics and reflective characteristics. That LCD filter has major diffuse transmission, and that may be required to soften the light information coming through. Due to the electron optics in a CRT, the spot profile is much "softer", and doesn't require diffusion to create a smooth image.
 
jbltecnicspro said:
Wait, what? That makes no sense. Are you running your screen 24/7? Power consumption should be minimal. Example - I use my monitors mostly during the weekend (job, life, etc. make it so that I can't use them during the week). I've personally never seen my power bills fluctuate due to my monitor usage.

EDIT - but do tell about the crystal anti glare.
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No, but he does claim that the power bill has been cheaper ever since the screen is gone.

Also: http://www.photodon.com/c/LCD-Protective-Films.html There is tons of discussion regarding crystal anti glare, especially regarding how it makes the FW900 look almost like new.
 
Kermie said:
No, but he does claim that the power bill has been cheaper ever since the screen is gone.

Also: http://www.photodon.com/c/LCD-Protective-Films.html There is tons of discussion regarding crystal anti glare, especially regarding how it makes the FW900 look almost like new.
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Crystal Clear. Excellent image quality. Recommended for color critical applications where maximum screen clarity is desired. Anti-Reflective (AR) coating twists the light emitted from the screen creating whiter whites/deeper darks. Cons: Noticeable surface reflection, no anti-glare function, no fingerprint coating.
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I lol'd.
twisting light part = so much bs
edit: well maybe they managed to sandwich a quarter-wave plate in there, but that would be quite useless without a linear polarizer which would limit transmittance to 50%. but in any event it's not possible that the screen's output is more white.

here's the spec sheet though
http://www.photodon.com/Film_Spec_MXA.pdf


not sure how this is possible........

5 degree Reflectance < 1.7%
Minimum Reflectance < 0.5%

unless the layer in contact with air has an index of refraction < 1.3, there's no way to match those numbers with fresnel equations for reflectance
 
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I know very little about optics, but are you saying that the 5 degree reflectance value is too small, relative to the minimum reflectance (which I assume happens at 0 degrees?)?

and yea, the whiter whites part sounds a bit quacky - maybe they mean perceptually whiter (which may happen if blacks are deepened).
 
yes unless you have an interference-type antireflective coating (like those on some eyeglasses), minimum reflectance generally occurs at 0 degree, meaning looking straight onto the surface. they measure at 5 deg because at 0 the light would be reflected into the light source. there is essentially no difference in reflectance at 5 vs 0 degree.

I've worked quite a bit on optics experiments in undergrad and no that doesn't make me automatically right, but everything I know is telling me that the details in their description is completely unjustified. It's probably not a bad product, but I can't really imagine it being much better (optically) than any other similar film protection cover.

or perhaps they're doing something really really really creative in the "AG resin" that I'm missing.


but anyway for our CRT monitors, AFAIK
-using a clear film does nothing unless the surface of the film has an index of refraction around 1.2-1.3 (not gunna happen)
-using a gray film will help with the diffuse reflections from the aperture grill and whatever else is under the glass, but at the cost of lower maximum brightness. this helps a lot with contrast ratio when there is ambient light. I think this is what the original antiglare film on the monitor does
-using a matte film like those on non-glossy lcd monitors will prevent specular (mirror-like) reflections but not really help with contrast ratio under light. in addition the image will be blurred because the phosphors are quite a bit underneath the surface
-using an interference-type antireflection coating would strongly reduce the specular reflections from the top surface. good luck finding a place to coat the screen though. my old emachines 17in monitor has this type of coating... so I guess it's not impossible. you can identify these coatings by how the specular reflections are purple or green depending on the angle you look at it.


There is tons of discussion regarding crystal anti glare, especially regarding how it makes the FW900 look almost like new.
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uh so yea I don't know know how that is possible, but if anyone has pictures to show I'd be really interested.
 
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Did the dynamic convergence came out nice now all my corners are focused

Installing cable and setting up windas was pretty simple did this on win 8.1 and used ezio monitor test.
 
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wait so windas works on windows 8?
the guy who sold me the monitor swore it would only work on xp :p
 
pcalltheway3 said:
Did the dynamic convergence came out nice now all my corners are focused

Installing cable and setting up windas was pretty simple did this on win 8.1 and used ezio monitor test.
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Congratulations! Once you master WinDAS, you'll learn that while it's not a walk in the park, it's not impossible either. It's actually a very straight forward piece of software once you know what you're doing. :)
 
spacediver said:
New WPB guide draft up. Intro is updated with a few corrections, and I've added information about the software and workflow. More to come soon!
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Hells yeah! I like this. Great work. I should be free(er) this weekend to finally get the convergence workflow done. I'm doing a convergence touch-up on my F520 (damn, I wish there was such a thing for the FW900). And it's TIGHT. :cool:
 
jbltecnicspro said:
Hells yeah! I like this. Great work. I should be free(er) this weekend to finally get the convergence workflow done. I'm doing a convergence touch-up on my F520 (damn, I wish there was such a thing for the FW900). And it's TIGHT. :cool:
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cool, I've also been learning a lot about electron optics and the electron gun, so I have a much better grasp of cutoff and G2 now :)
 
jbltecnicspro said:
Can you show us more than just Green please? Convergence, by definition, is the alignment of Red, Green, and Blue rasters. Showing us a Green raster won't help us answer your question. :)
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unfortunately I won't be back until next wednesday and I don't have any more pictures

The convergence/alignment of the red and blue to green is good. but I'm wondering if pcalltheway3 was able to improve the focus (like focus of individual colors) during the convergence process
 
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flod said:
unfortunately I won't be back until next wednesday and I don't have any more pictures

The convergence/alignment of the red and blue to green is good. but I'm wondering if pcalltheway3 was able to improve the focus (like focus of individual colors) during the convergence process
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It's hard to say exactly. FW900 and F520 (and Artisan I assume) all have Dynamic Focus, but it's not available to adjust to the technician. I do know that Dynamic Focus is adjusted automatically by the monitor itself, and that certain other adjustments may trigger its adjustment. Eh.
 
I believe that the G4 grid (which is one of the lens components) is central to controlling the dynamic focus, and adjusts the focal length of the beam as it is deflected from center to edge of viewscreen. As jbl said, I don't think that in the trinitron models that the circuitry controlling G4 is accessible to modification. Focus may be indirectly affected by the relationship between G2 and drive levels, and I believe there is an inherent tradeoff between focus and luminance in CRTs. I think it's probably smart to adjust geometry, convergence, and min and max luminance correctly before diagnosing any focus issues.
 
jbltecnicspro said:
It's hard to say exactly. FW900 and F520 (and Artisan I assume) all have Dynamic Focus, but it's not available to adjust to the technician. I do know that Dynamic Focus is adjusted automatically by the monitor itself, and that certain other adjustments may trigger its adjustment. Eh.
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The first step on aligning the focus correctly is to move the poles located on the neck of the monitor. You would need the GDM-FW900 service manual to guide you where the poles are. This monitor has two sets of poles: the first set controls the focussing and the second set is for the color purity.

Once this first step is done, then the adjustments via WinDAS will follow. Every tube is unique in the the way it is adjusted. Give it a try...

UV!
 
flod said:
wait so windas works on windows 8?
the guy who sold me the monitor swore it would only work on xp :p
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you have to register MSFLXGRD.OCX and it works fine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR7apz7uWZ4


flod said:
do you think my corners are salvageable?
http://i.imgur.com/hhbz5UB.jpg
was your problem similar or was it just a convergence issue in corners?
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Hard to tell i used ezio monitor test and did the geometry/convergence it was hard to tell if it was off but once i disabled green and only used red/blue it was pretty easy to see my blue were off so i just went by that

jbltecnicspro said:
Congratulations! Once you master WinDAS, you'll learn that while it's not a walk in the park, it's not impossible either. It's actually a very straight forward piece of software once you know what you're doing. :)
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Yea i made sure i made backup omg if i didn't i would be screwed had to restore couple times
 
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LAGRUNAUER said:
The first step on aligning the focus correctly is to move the poles located on the neck of the monitor. You would need the GDM-FW900 service manual to guide you where the poles are. This monitor has two sets of poles: the first set controls the focussing and the second set is for the color purity.

Once this first step is done, then the adjustments via WinDAS will follow. Every tube is unique in the the way it is adjusted. Give it a try...

UV!
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Is it a fair assumption that the Artisan and F520 also have focusing poles? Just curious.
 
Also - does anyone have a clue as to how I can get my Artisan puck working without being tied to the Sony software? I'd love to be able to use it with HFCR.
 
jbltecnicspro said:
Also - does anyone have a clue as to how I can get my Artisan puck working without being tied to the Sony software? I'd love to be able to use it with HFCR.
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The puck was developed by a Sequel Imaging, Inc., a small east cost company that was later on purchased by Gretag MacBeth, which later on was purchased by X-Rite. All these folks ended up working for X-Rite but the drivers they developed for the Sony color sensor (puck) were never upgraded to any 64-bit version and/or any other program other than the Sony CRS program which only works with Windows Xp 32-Bit. We had some success in making the puck work with a calibration software developed by a german company called BasICColor.

Also, Sony did not issue any revision to the CRS program past version 1.2.5 which also works with Windows XP. I spend 10K of my own money in trying to develop the 64-bit version of the program, but all the beta versions dod not work with the puck because of the driver issue.

UV!
 
LAGRUNAUER said:
The puck was developed by a Sequel Imaging, Inc., a small east cost company that was later on purchased by Gretag MacBeth, which later on was purchased by X-Rite. All these folks ended up working for X-Rite but the drivers they developed for the Sony color sensor (puck) were never upgraded to any 64-bit version and/or any other program other than the Sony CRS program which only works with Windows Xp 32-Bit. We had some success in making the puck work with a calibration software developed by a german company called BasICColor.

Also, Sony did not issue any revision to the CRS program past version 1.2.5 which also works with Windows XP. I spend 10K of my own money in trying to develop the 64-bit version of the program, but all the beta versions dod not work with the puck because of the driver issue.

UV!
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Wow. Thanks for your answer! :) I should clarify though, my calibration computer (so to speak) is a Windows XP 32-bit machine. So I don't have an issue with the drivers with the Color Puck. Alas, HFCR still doesn't recognize the device (even though the computer does, and thus the Sony calibration software works like a charm). I was wanting to use the color puck as a general colorimeter on the F520 and even the FW900, since it may be a better puck than the DTP-94. I mean... The DTP-94 is a great tool so if I can't use the color puck then it's no big loss. But since I have it, I may as well try.
 
LAGRUNAUER said:
Also, Sony did not issue any revision to the CRS program past version 1.2.5 which also works with Windows XP. I spend 10K of my own money in trying to develop the 64-bit version of the program, but all the beta versions dod not work with the puck because of the driver issue.

UV!
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holy crap!

Does the (32 bit) CRS software allow real time readings of the puck, or does it only do an autocalibration?
 
spacediver said:
holy crap!

Does the (32 bit) CRS software allow real time readings of the puck, or does it only do an autocalibration?
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I never thought to look. I don't think so. I only recall seeing it display the current gun gain/bias settings and that's it. When you perform the calibration, it just does so automatically, with no readings whatsoever.

EDIT: With no readings VIEWABLE to the user. :) Obviously, it's taking readings.
 
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LAGRUNAUER said:
The first step on aligning the focus correctly is to move the poles located on the neck of the monitor. You would need the GDM-FW900 service manual to guide you where the poles are. This monitor has two sets of poles: the first set controls the focussing and the second set is for the color purity.

Once this first step is done, then the adjustments via WinDAS will follow. Every tube is unique in the the way it is adjusted. Give it a try...

UV!
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do they control something different from what the two screws on the top control? perhaps they could fix my corner issue ;D

By the way, could you explain what each of those two focus screws do? It's certainly not x-focus and y-focus
 
jbltecnicspro said:
I never thought to look. I don't think so. I only recall seeing it display the current gun gain/bias settings and that's it. When you perform the calibration, it just does so automatically, with no readings whatsoever.
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interesting, I might ask Graeme (ArgyllCMS creator) if he has any suggestions.
 
flod said:
do they control something different from what the two screws on the top control? perhaps they could fix my corner issue ;D

By the way, could you explain what each of those two focus screws do? It's certainly not x-focus and y-focus
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The service manual isn't very keen on it either. I believe it just says to adjust them both so that the whole image is into focus. :confused:

EDIT: Just looked it up. On Page 4-2, and I quote: "Adjust the focus volume 1 and 2 for the optimum focus."
 
So apparently ColorEyes Display works with the sony artisan puck.

Not sure if this software provides real time measurements though. I have put out a question on the argyll mailing list about real time measurements with the artisan puck.

As for getting the drivers to work in win 64, Vito have you tried this approach? Seems like it would work, and you and your clients wouldn't need to install windows xp 32 bit.
 
spacediver said:
So apparently ColorEyes Display works with the sony artisan puck.

Not sure if this software provides real time measurements though. I have put out a question on the argyll mailing list about real time measurements with the artisan puck.

As for getting the drivers to work in win 64, Vito have you tried this approach? Seems like it would work, and you and your clients wouldn't need to install windows xp 32 bit.
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I can testify that the Artisan software absolutely will not work with XP Mode. No clue why (probably because of the lack of a proper video driver). But whenever I tried it, it would error out and not work.
 
spacediver said:
holy crap!

Does the (32 bit) CRS software allow real time readings of the puck, or does it only do an autocalibration?
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Autocalibration only... The german calibration program I mentioned in the forum does allow it in basic mode... We made it work in the lab before...

UV!
 
flod said:
do they control something different from what the two screws on the top control? perhaps they could fix my corner issue ;D

By the way, could you explain what each of those two focus screws do? It's certainly not x-focus and y-focus
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What/which two screws on top of the control? Which control?

I don't understand your question...

UV!
 
spacediver said:
So apparently ColorEyes Display works with the sony artisan puck.

Not sure if this software provides real time measurements though. I have put out a question on the argyll mailing list about real time measurements with the artisan puck.

As for getting the drivers to work in win 64, Vito have you tried this approach? Seems like it would work, and you and your clients wouldn't need to install windows xp 32 bit.
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We never got it to work... But that doesn't mean it can't... We just didn't want to waste any more time on the trials...

Maybe someone can spend the time on the trials... Give it a try...

UV!
 
jbltecnicspro said:
I can testify that the Artisan software absolutely will not work with XP Mode. No clue why (probably because of the lack of a proper video driver). But whenever I tried it, it would error out and not work.
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That's correct! The OS will not load the driver and the program needs to recognize BOTH the instrument and the display (via Sony Artisan digital cable - the VGA/USB cable that comes with the monitor) in order to launch...

UV!
 
I've just emailed the person from this site to see if they were able to get the puck and CRS software to work in win 7 x64. Will report back if I hear anything.

I suppose the only solution now is to have a dual boot into XP (or use a virtual machine, which wouldn't require a reboot).

I'm curious - what kind of error do you guys get when you try to load the driver in XP mode?
 
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spacediver said:
I've just emailed the person from this site to see if they were able to get the puck and CRS software to work in win 7 x64. Will report back if I hear anything.

I suppose the only solution now is to have a dual boot into XP (or use a virtual machine, which wouldn't require a reboot).

I'm curious - what kind of error do you guys get when you try to load the driver in XP mode?
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He mentioned that he ran the majority of the test on Win-64bit, but he did not mention specifically if he ran the CRS on Win-64bit.

I am also curious to find out...

UV!
 
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