24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.

ibex333 said:
.....I gladly sacrifice color quality, and refresh rate to reduce the health risks.
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LOL...this was laid to rest a LONG time ago. It was found you need to sit 1 INCH away from a monitor 24 hours a day for 10 YEARS straight to even be slightly affected by the radiation.

I will gladly enjoy my monitor which has ZERO input lag and ZERO response time to your LCD, thank you. :D

And on the refresh rate, everyone is right. You have it backwards. CRTs support far higher refresh rates than LCDs do. The refresh rates LCDs advertise is still not even the same as for CRTs since the response time is one of the main factors in refreshing from one image to the next.

And its a no brainer why most manufacturers are scared to advertise their COLOR response time and only advertise their gray to gray response time. Because they know their color response time will be in the double digits! Response time? What response time. Our CRTs do it at the speed of lights.
 
Here are some links for those trying to prove me wrong:

http://emf.mercola.com/sites/emf/emf-dangers.aspx

http://www.emwatch.com/Computers.htm

And the distance needed is a hell of a lot more than one inch. It is 30cm which is 11.8 inches. And that is just to keep it from being flat out dangerous.

ZeosPantera. Yes, you are right. I did get it wrong. Higher refresh rates are indeed better for the eyes. But I remember reading somewhere how refresh rates work differently for LCD and CRT and the way it is on LCDs is much easier on the eyes. I'll post it once I find it.

Also, from wikipedia:

Health concerns
See also: Electronic waste
[edit] Ionizing radiation

CRTs can emit a small amount of X-ray radiation as a result of the electron beam's bombardment of the shadow mask/aperture grille and phosphors. The amount of radiation escaping the front of the monitor is widely considered unharmful. The Food and Drug Administration regulations in 21 C.F.R. 1020.10 are used to strictly limit, for instance, television receivers to 0.5 milliroentgens per hour (mR/h) (0.13 µC/(kg·h) or 36 pA/kg) at a distance of 5 cm (2 in) from any external surface; since 2007, most CRTs have emissions that fall well below this limit.[42]
[edit] Toxicity

Color and monochrome CRTs may contain toxic substances, such as cadmium, in the phosphors.[43][44][45] The rear glass tube of modern CRTs may be made from leaded glass, which represent an environmental hazard if disposed of improperly.[46] By the time personal computers were produced, glass in the front panel (the viewable portion of the CRT) used barium rather than lead, though the rear of the CRT was still produced from leaded glass. Monochrome CRTs typically do not contain enough leaded glass to fail EPA tests.

In October 2001, the United States Environmental Protection Agency created rules stating that CRTs must be brought to special recycling facilities. In November 2002, the EPA began fining companies that disposed of CRTs through landfills or incineration. Regulatory agencies, local and statewide, monitor the disposal of CRTs and other computer equipment.[47]

In Europe, disposal of CRT televisions and monitors is covered by the WEEE Directive.[48]
[edit] Flicker

At low refresh rates (below 50 Hz), the periodic scanning of the display may produce an irritating flicker that some people perceive more easily than others, especially when viewed with peripheral vision. A high refresh rate (above 72 Hz) reduces the effect. Computer displays and televisions with CRTs driven by digital electronics often use refresh rates of 100 Hz or more to largely eliminate any perception of flicker.[49] Non-computer CRTs or CRT for sonar or radar may have long persistence phosphor and are thus flicker free. If the persistence is too long on a video display, moving images will be blurred.
[edit] High-frequency noise

CRTs used for television operate with horizontal scanning frequencies of 15,734 Hz (for NTSC systems) or 15,625 Hz (for PAL systems).[50] These frequencies are at the upper range of human hearing and are inaudible to many people; some people will perceive a high-pitched tone near an operating television CRT.[51] The sound is due to magnetostriction in the magnetic core of the flyback transformer.
[edit] Implosion

A high vacuum exists within all cathode ray tubes, putting the envelope under relatively high stress. If the outer glass envelope is damaged, the glass will break and pieces will fly out at high speed. While modern Cathode Ray Tubes used in televisions and computer displays have epoxy-bonded face-plates or other measures to prevent shattering of the envelope, CRTs removed from equipment must be handled carefully to avoid personal injury.[52]
[edit] Security concerns

Under some circumstances, the signal radiated from the electron guns, scanning circuitry, and associated wiring of a CRT can be captured and used to remotely reconstruct what is shown on the CRT, using a process called Van Eck phreaking.[53] Special TEMPEST shielding can mitigate this effect. Such radiation of a potentially exploitable signal however occurs also with LCDs and with all electronics in general.[citation needed]
[edit] Recycling

As electronic waste, CRTs are considered one of the hardest types to recycle.[54] CRTs have relatively high concentration of lead and phosphors (not phosphorus), both of which are necessary for the display. There are several companies in the United States that charge a small fee to collect CRTs, then subsidize their labor by selling the harvested copper, wire, and printed circuit boards. Leaded CRT glass is sold to get remelted into other CRTs, or even broken down and used in road construction.[55]

Also, read this: http://ask.slashdot.org/story/05/04/01/1552234/Health-Consequences-of-CRT-Monitors

and this:

http://www.emfbioshield.com/arecrt.html

and this:

http://buzzslot.com/2011/05/side-effects-caused-by-computer-screens/
 
I read my shit a LONG time ago LOL.
Never bothered to do research on it again, but I guess things may have been updated. I read that 1 inch article in a magazine. Remember those things? :p

In regards to refresh rates, I think one of the main advertising points of LCDs in the early days was "flicker free" and this was due to no one having a clue what the hell refresh rate is. I remember EVERY time I'd work on some one's system I would politely set them up to 85+ or to the highest their monitor can support at the resolution they work on. I never had someone tell me "I can't tell the difference from 60." LCDs monopolized on this and started advertising the ever so flicker free LCDs. Whop tee do. He lets screw up everything else in the process just because you have no clue how to set your refresh rate!
 
ibex333 said:
Here are some links for those trying to prove me wrong: blah blah blah
Click to expand...

You are either a mediocre troll or a huge buzz kill. Spending to much time sitting in front a computer is bad for you PERIOD. Do you really think spending 8 hours a day in front of an LCD for a decade is really better for you? Just spending to much time sitting down can lead to heart attacks, strokes, and obesity.

I guess you didn't take the time to read the 3 links you posted. Two of the sites you linked are trying to sell something. I'm not concerned with a 1984 Polish study linking CRT monitors and miscarriages. The Slashdot thread you linked is full of some great quotes: "Last time I went to the eye doctor (a month or two ago) he told me basically, that staring at monitors should have NO ill effects, as long as you take a break evrey once in a while. He phrased it as the 20-20-20 rule. Basically evrey 20 minutes, look at somthign 20 feet away for 20 seconds to prevent your eyes from getting strained."

Everything in moderation.
 
Hi, my first post here on [H] :)

Only health concern for using CRT's is that is doesn't give sharp picture, not as sharp as LCD. But it's no problem to use LCD + CRT combo and I very much prefer it that way. LCD have it's advantages so do CRT, so why not have best of both worlds? :rolleyes:

Been using some 17" IPS Dell + IBM P275 21" high quality Trinitron CRT in the past and very much liked that setup. Later I sold both of my monitors and bought Dell 2407WFP and that was my big mistake... :( Now I have BenQ VW2420H and it's so much better in contrast and input lag but still missing one thing... some super duper CRT and so Sony GDM-FW900 is on ist way to me :cool:

Will do some contrast measurements with Spyder2 whet it arrive. Fast measurements of IBM P275 show it have more than 5000:1 contrast ratio. FW900 have to be OVER 9000!!!!! ;)
 
CZ Eddie said:
I find that difficult to understand. I bought the Dell 24" UltraSharp which is highly touted as being one off the better LCD's for video quality.
And my FW-9010 absolutely blows it out of the water in every respect. Depth of image (and black level) is the biggest improvement with the FW-9010. Just an amazing difference even after contrast was tweaked on the LCD.
Click to expand...

Agreed.. It seems a lot of people don't realize how important black levels are to picture quality as a whole, Not just dark scenes in movies etc. it also allows for deeper rich colors and image depth.

The closest ive seen LCD come to CRT blacks is models with PVA panels which arent very common, Most LCDs these days are TN or IPS based, I currently have a TN and PVA side by side and it's similar to comparing a LCD & CRT, Unfortunately PVA's are the slowest of the 3 panel types so ghosting is more noticeable with gaming, but I'd have to admit watching HD movies on the PVA is impressive, the "image pop" is probably about 2 1/2 times brighter than my (R.I.P.) FW900 was although I never removed the antiglare coating.

Here's one example of the black level / contrast differences between IPS & PVA ,you can choose your own models to compare here although they've been lagging on new reviews lately.

ips_vs_pva.JPG
 
Re: sharpness, its not actually as bad an issue as I thought it would be with CRTs, as long as you are able to re-adjust the focus pots. Being able to switch to lower resolutions without losing any sharpness is also a big plus when it comes to reading.

<3 my Dell P1130, now if only it was widescreen.
 
Yeah sharpness is relative. At 1920x1200 on a 22.5" diagonal viewing plane the dot pitch is smaller then 1920x1200 on an LCD 24". It all comes down to the connection and the focus pots. I could get a macro picture if you like of single pixel dots in comparison to objects and an LCD. They are small tight and uniform.
 
just took off my anti-glare coating. colours are much 'cooler' will need to use a colour correction adjuster again.
 
kohan69 said:
just took off my anti-glare coating. colours are much 'cooler' will need to use a colour correction adjuster again.
Click to expand...

Has anyone done this and used something like a Spyder3 or i1 to recalibrate? I'm interested in whether this can be done and still allow for the monitor to be properly calibrated to a D65 and the color chromaticities still being what they should be.
 
I have a kd34-xbr970 and an xbr960 and I'm looking to move on up to the top of the pile with an fw900. I'm looking to get one in good shape that will last me years, and I've seen unklevito's on ebay, but his ebay page says no shipping, and sadly I live on the wrong coast to pick one up myself. Am I just SOL if I want to find a low hours/high quality fw900 this late after its discontinuation?
 
Tachikoma said:
Re: sharpness, its not actually as bad an issue as I thought it would be with CRTs, as long as you are able to re-adjust the focus pots. Being able to switch to lower resolutions without losing any sharpness is also a big plus when it comes to reading.
Click to expand...
nowadays who use CRT for reading? :eek:

That's what all those slow VA panels are produced for, for internet surfing and reading e-books ;)

CRT give sharper image in motion and generally are good for games, movies or viewing pictures (not in motion but colours are generally better) but for text based tasks I always prefer good LCD to CRT :eek:
 
may all our fw900s live forever.

i dont want to pay unklevito $900 for a replacement, and anything else would be a compromise of sorts :mad:
 
Gentlemen, I have a new childhood hero. His ebay name is feartwo.

Everyone is always concerned about how their eBayed FW is going to arrive and what packaging will be used. LA must be far more magical than I ever expected because this guy was somehow able to acquire a 27" CRT TV box and used that for the FW! So it is a heavy duty box with reinforced corners and is double walled. He had SO much bubble wrapping & styrofoam in it that I could barely fit my hands around to get the beast out.

Other than a few minor cosmetic scratches on the front bezel, the beast is in almost pristine condition. Screen? NO blemishes what so ever. I'm at 1920x1200 @ 90hz now. I was at 95 with the HP, but it seemed a tiny bit darker with this model. 90 looks perfecto.

I'm not as hardcore as some of you to mess with the colors, but I have spent over an hour with convergence and landing checking to make sure it is just right. Screen & glass are 100%.

It's like falling in Love for the first time again. :D

I certainly hope some of you will be able to find an example as good as the one I did. :)
 
Congrats Flybye. Just out of curiosity, how close together are the setting values for the four landing adjustments? Have you done a full white screen to double check the uniformity?
 
Tony, 56, 52, 65, 37. Yup, I did a full white screen and its as white as it can be.
 
Has anybody tested how much brighter screen becomes after removing antireflective coating?

is 200cd/m2 possible on those displays?
 
Flybye said:
Tony, 56, 52, 65, 37. Yup, I did a full white screen and its as white as it can be.
Click to expand...

Mine is 53, 46, 60, 44. I thought the spread was a little large compared to my other FW900, but it seems in line with what you guys are seeing. My other FW900 had a beautifully balanced output. Minimal spread in landing values and RGB Gains... a thing of beauty. Too bad it's crapping out on me. Ah well. The one I'm looking at now is no slouch! :D
 
Flybye said:
I'm not as hardcore as some of you to mess with the colors, but I have spent over an hour with convergence and landing checking to make sure it is just right.
Click to expand...

A desk warming gift. Use this if you like, for corner convergence. (just click the top that says Photobucket(video) damn hardforums is failing on thumbnail embeds)
[ame]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/F12Bwth2/Calibration/CustomPattern.png[/ame]

I also used full screen Red Green Blue and White with mine.

And I recently made this for TV's but the color correction in the center works damn well on the FW.

[ame]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/F12Bwth2/Calibration/1080PTVCalibration.png[/ame]

Here is the instruction manual.
[ame]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/F12Bwth2/Calibration/1080PTVCalibrationExplained.png[/ame]



XoR said:
Has anybody tested how much brighter screen becomes after removing antireflective coating?

is 200cd/m2 possible on those displays?
Click to expand...

Blindness is possible. Not sure of the cd/m2 value but it can get annoyingly bright to the point of eye strain.
 
Wow! This thread is still going. I remember looking at it when I picked up my Dell 24" LCD a few years ago.
 
I got Win Das installed in a laptop, but I keep getting the error Astro Sg is not used, Please check configuration! then I click ok and I get Astro sg communicationn error and lastly astro sg timing setup error and then the program runs fine after I click ok on those 3 errors but I am wondering if there is something else missing. Talk about a little complication getting this bad boy running.
 
ellover009 said:
I got Win Das installed in a laptop, but I keep getting the error Astro Sg is not used, Please check configuration! then I click ok and I get Astro sg communicationn error and lastly astro sg timing setup error and then the program runs fine after I click ok on those 3 errors but I am wondering if there is something else missing. Talk about a little complication getting this bad boy running.
Click to expand...

Set up>Config> Astro SG - Manual

Try that.
 
theres a company by me that operates out of a warehouse... they sell all their stuff on ebay.

i went in one day to apply for a job (needed some quick money), i got a tour... lo and behold... they had like 20 fw900s just sitting in the back.

i remarked about them, and the manager didnt even flinch or give it a second thought.

wonder if itd be worth it to go back and double check on their supply.

itd be nice to secure some sort of inventory for this forum.
 
I just picked up the HP variant for $100 locally today and I'm loving it for gaming, 100hz at high resolutions is just an incredible feeling that every serious FPS gamer should experience at least once in their life. Hell, I'd even go as far as calling it the best gaming monitor out there right now. Blu-ray movies look fantastic as well, of course.

...of course, this was all until I rotated it (using the base swivel) and everything got all blurry. Not "out of focus" blurry, but more of a double image towards the center. Now the picture is not nearly as crisp as it was before, and the focus adjustment knobs on the flyback don't seem to bring it back to the way it was. After about two hours of use, it's faded back to a usable state, but unless it goes back to crazy sharp tomorrow, it seems that I've lost something amazing within 12 hours of bringing it home. Is this a common occurrence? Should I be worried?

I also forgot just how bad the luminance bleeding is on CRTs! I was hoping to use this for work (graphics stuff) but the terrible bleeding in high contrast situations is making this pretty much unusable for that kind of thing. Anyone know how I can reduce this effect?
 
If you're talking about the "flaring" effect where the black becomes more gray the more white content is displayed on the screen, then there is nothing you can do about that because it is an unfortunate side effect of CRT tech that serves to reduce the simultaneous contrast to far less than that of even an LCD.

Read this: http://www.glennchan.info/broadcast-monitors/understanding/black-level.htm#flare

It is the only thing I really hate about CRT's :rolleyes:
 
sourceringer said:
I just picked up the HP variant for $100 locally today and I'm loving it for gaming, 100hz at high resolutions is just an incredible feeling that every serious FPS gamer should experience at least once in their life. Hell, I'd even go as far as calling it the best gaming monitor out there right now. Blu-ray movies look fantastic as well, of course.

...of course, this was all until I rotated it (using the base swivel) and everything got all blurry. Not "out of focus" blurry, but more of a double image towards the center. Now the picture is not nearly as crisp as it was before, and the focus adjustment knobs on the flyback don't seem to bring it back to the way it was. After about two hours of use, it's faded back to a usable state, but unless it goes back to crazy sharp tomorrow, it seems that I've lost something amazing within 12 hours of bringing it home. Is this a common occurrence? Should I be worried?

I also forgot just how bad the luminance bleeding is on CRTs! I was hoping to use this for work (graphics stuff) but the terrible bleeding in high contrast situations is making this pretty much unusable for that kind of thing. Anyone know how I can reduce this effect?
Click to expand...

It's important to remember that just about all fw900's you find these days are going in unknown condition :( Most will be heavily used and all are very old by now :(

The luminance bleeding is an unforunate reality to some extent on crt's :(
 
Ugh, what a bummer. I guess I just wasted $100 on this thing. I suppose it was worth it just to play Quake 3 crystal clear with better-than-IPS color at 1680x1050 100hz for a few hours before randomly defocusing though. It's a shame I'll probably never get to experience that again.

I turned the monitor on this morning after being off overnight and it looked fantastic again for about 5 minutes, until it faded to unfocused. After about a minute of being unfocused, it does the focus pop thing and comes back to "normal", albeit with the strange double image blurriness problem. Seems like a bad flyback. I guess I'll have to go back to my IPS LCD and deal with horrific input lag and low refresh rates. :(

I also forgot to mention that there's a strange blue hue over everything that I can't get out. Color return doesn't help much.
 
cinnamonandgravy said:
theres a company by me that operates out of a warehouse... they sell all their stuff on ebay.

i went in one day to apply for a job (needed some quick money), i got a tour... lo and behold... they had like 20 fw900s just sitting in the back.

i remarked about them, and the manager didnt even flinch or give it a second thought.

wonder if itd be worth it to go back and double check on their supply.

itd be nice to secure some sort of inventory for this forum.
Click to expand...

curious if I know this place. What's their name/location?
 
cinnamonandgravy said:
theres a company by me that operates out of a warehouse... they sell all their stuff on ebay.
i went in one day to apply for a job (needed some quick money), i got a tour... lo and behold... they had like 20 fw900s just sitting in the back.
i remarked about them, and the manager didnt even flinch or give it a second thought.
wonder if itd be worth it to go back and double check on their supply.
itd be nice to secure some sort of inventory for this forum.
Click to expand...

Rock&Roll said:
curious if I know this place. What's their name/location?
Click to expand...

Yes, tell us what we need to know. That place needs a good old fashioned midnight raid!
 
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