24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.

In my personal experience I haven't seen any LCD that exceeds, matches, or even comes close to matching the FW900. You can pay out the nose for something that doesn't have glaring deficiencies but in reality it's not gonna come close to the FW900.
 
Though obviously, taking an FW900 on the road would be a bad idea, since they're much more fragile than LCDs. Just shipping them is a big risk. Not to mention the extra space it would take up. It's all together impractical.
 
You vastly limit your choices by insisting on a 16:9 screen, and a 16:10 screen really doesn't waste much screen real estate (ten percent, to be exact; it's about the difference between a 24" display and a 23" display, because screen area is proportional to the square of diagonal length). If you want black levels, color quality, and viewing angles that a CRT won't totally wipe the floor with, you want a non-TN panel; either IPS or PVA. The planar 26" would be nice, at about $800. Some have said that only TN panels are suitable for gaming because of their better response time. I wouldn't know, but I highly doubt that the better response times would make up for their poor viewing angles, black levels and color. All of the best TVs are non-TN, and no one who's sane says that they're all unsuitable for gaming. Or, since your display will be used like one, you might find that you're better off with an actual TV, but in that case you'd probably have to go with at least 32" if you wanted 1080p.
 
thank's for all answer. but please, all answer me in simple word because i not understand 100%...
i not speak well english :(

then...
i undestand that i search monitor IPS or PVA...correct?
but i want 24" for play in single player ;)
for play in two player i have TV 32pw9551 32" hd-ready CRT ;) and is very good for play...

there anyone who can recommend a model that is close to the quality of gdm-fw900?

i remember that i search 24" 16:9 (for problem black bar) , 1080P and perfect for use only with ps3 and xbox 360.

thank's
 
Sounds like you've done good research to know that IPS or PVA panels are the ones to get.

I would argue that there is no benefit to using an FW-900 for a console, as you will never benefit from the FW900's real gaming strength--refresh rate. On a PC, you can run 85hz, 100hz, 120hz refresh rate for fast-response gaming. On a console, you are limited to 60hz no matter what your monitor is. As far as color accuracy, it's not like the games you play on a console are going to be made that much better by a high-end CRT's color accuracy. I really suggest you spend your money on a high end IPS or PVA monitor as you have mentioned. I would recommend getting a true LCD 'monitor', and not a television, though. Get something with an HDMI input and live happily.
 
sixstringmonk said:
I have just submitted a question to NVidia about this to make sure they are aware of the problem. If you have the time, please do the same as I'm sure they'll take it more seriously if more than one person submits the problem.
Click to expand...

So far, my communications with NVidia have been laughable

ME
I am using an EVGA 8800 GTS card on Windows 7 64bit RTM with a Sony GDM-FW900 CRT monitor. I have come across an issue with all GeForce drivers after 182.50. The issue is as follows: The drivers will scale all fullscreen apps/games to the desktop resolution when they are running at a lower resolution. Example: If I play an older game such as Planescape Torment that runs at 640x480, the card upscales the game. No resolution change happens for the monitor. Since the monitor is a CRT, the resolution should not be scaled by the video card. Unfortunately the scaling options aren't available in the NVidia control panel because the monitor is not an LCD / fixed resolution display. The 182.50 drivers work fine, so the problem was introduced after that.

I have been able to confirm through various online communities that this problem exists for other people with this monitor. I do not know if this problem exists for other CRT monitors as I don't have another model to test with.

Is this a known issue, and is there a workaround?
Click to expand...

NVIDIA
Thank you for contacting NVIDIA Customer care.

This is *****, assisting you in troubleshooting the issue you are experiencing.

I understand from your email that the drivers will scale all full screen applications or games to the desktop resolution when they are running at a lower resolution.

I apologize for the inconvenience caused. However, in order to assist you better and to determine the nature of problem you are experiencing, I will need additional information.

1) When did you start experiencing this problem with your NVIDIA based card? Was it working before?
2) The different driver versions that you have tried installing for your graphics card.
3) Do you have the updated motherboard BIOS?
4) What is the exact procedure followed to install the latest driver?
5) Please let me know the cables and connectivity- have you connected the monitor to the port available on the graphics card? Is that connected via DVI or VGA adapter?
6) What is the model number of the monitor you have?
7) Please let me know if you have tried any troubleshooting steps.

I will look forward to your reply to assist you better.
Click to expand...

ME
Hi *****,

Motherboard bios is current
The different driver versions I have tried to install are:

181.71_geforce_win7_64bit_international_beta NO SCALING
182.50_geforce_winvista_64bit_english_whql NO SCALING
185.81_geforce_win7_64bit_english_beta SCALES W/ NO SCALING OPTIONS
185.85_desktop_win7_64bit_english_whql SCALES W/ NO SCALING OPTIONS
186.08_desktop_win7_winvista_64bit_english_beta SCALES W/ NO SCALING OPTIONS
186.18_desktop_win7_winvista_64bit_english_whql SCALES W/ NO SCALING OPTIONS
190.38_desktop_win7_winvista_64bit_english_whql SCALES W/ NO SCALING OPTIONS

4) Uninstall driver through programs and features. Uninstall Physx, and Stereo 3d (if installed) Restart. Install.

5) Stage left DVI -> VGA adaptor -> VGA input on CRT monitor.

6) Sony GDM FW900 16x10 CRT Trinitron Monitor.
Click to expand...

NVIDIA
"The Flat Panel Scaling option is not available for the displays connected using the VGA input of the monitor it is only compatible with digital output which is DVI. Please click on the link below for the details regarding the same.

http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2182

Also, I would like to inform you here that all the games are not wide screen monitor resolution supported. Therefore, I would request you to contact the game developer to check if the game supports the wide screen monitor resolutions."
Click to expand...

This support person obviously doesn't even know how a CRT monitor is supposed to work. ATI, Here I come after buying NVidia cards since Geforce 2. What a kick in the shorts.
 
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Rock&Roll said:
Sounds like you've done good research to know that IPS or PVA panels are the ones to get.

I would argue that there is no benefit to using an FW-900 for a console, as you will never benefit from the FW900's real gaming strength--refresh rate. On a PC, you can run 85hz, 100hz, 120hz refresh rate for fast-response gaming. On a console, you are limited to 60hz no matter what your monitor is. As far as color accuracy, it's not like the games you play on a console are going to be made that much better by a high-end CRT's color accuracy. I really suggest you spend your money on a high end IPS or PVA monitor as you have mentioned. I would recommend getting a true LCD 'monitor', and not a television, though. Get something with an HDMI input and live happily.
Click to expand...

ok, thank's. but you can say me good models that i can see?
 
sixstringmonk said:
So far, my communications with NVidia have been laughable...
Click to expand...
I have a GDM-F520 connected by BNC and I'm not seeing any forced scaling on Win7 RTM x64 using 190.38 on a 7800GTX 512MB.

Have you tried running Driver Cleaner and/or Driver Sweeper after uninstalling the driver and before installing a new one?

Can you set the resolution to 640x480 from the control panel? If so, does it scale it or actually set the resolution to 640x480? Same with 800x600? Does the scaling problem happen only with certain games or all games?

Do you have a GDM-FW900 monitor driver installed? I would assume the driver is installed automatically since you are using VGA.

Have you tried connecting by BNC cable and installing a monitor driver manually? Since BNC works for me, I wouldn't be surprised if you are experiencing some sort of EDID problem by using VGA.

Edit: It appears a new driver, 190.62, is out, so maybe try that one after running Driver Sweeper/Cleaner and see if it fixes the problem. http://www.nvidia.com/object/win7_winvista_64bit_190.62_whql.html
 
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I will test those out sometime, but I'm not optimistic. What has been happening on everything past 182.50 is that if i set any other resolution that 1920x1200 @ 85Hz, it automatically forces 2304x1440 @ 70Hz to be driven to the monitor. The resolution you've selected is merely scaled to fit 2304x1440...It looks like an LCD does when you set it to a non-native resolution. I have no doubt that Win7 is having EDID issues with my 8 year old CRT (Nothing that can't be fixed or forced with some rivatuner/registry edits).... But still, the scaling issue is squarely on nVidia for getting lax with their driver development.

Not to mention how much better performance i get with 182.50... I really leaves me with little reason to upgrade drivers.
 
Cyberbeing said:
Have you tried running Driver Cleaner and/or Driver Sweeper after uninstalling the driver and before installing a new one?
Click to expand...

No. I will give that a try.

Cyberbeing said:
Can you set the resolution to 640x480 from the control panel? If so, does it scale it or actually set the resolution to 640x480? Same with 800x600? Does the scaling problem happen only with certain games or all games?
Click to expand...

Funny thing is - with either driver 640x480 isn't offered in the NVidia control panel. However, with 180.50 it will go into 640x480 if the game is set to that. With the newer driver, it won't do 640x480 at all. I was able to get bionic commando rearmed to do 800x600, but it scaled when I changed it to the next higher resolution. Therefore it leads me to believe it's something more complicated than just anything other than the desktop resolution. Again, this problem doesn't exist at all with 180.50.

Cyberbeing said:
Do you have a GDM-FW900 monitor driver installed? I would assume the driver is installed automatically since you are using VGA.
Click to expand...

Yup, Win7 detected the model number and loaded the driver.

Cyberbeing said:
Have you tried connecting by BNC cable and installing a monitor driver manually? Since BNC works for me, I wouldn't be surprised if you are experiencing some sort of EDID problem by using VGA.
Click to expand...

I'll give BNC a go. Unfortunately I have some serious convergence issues with my BNC input, but I guess it's worth a go just for trouble shooting this driver issue. Good idea!

Also, I'll try that new driver release you mentioned.

Rock&Roll said:
But still, the scaling issue is squarely on nVidia for getting lax with their driver development..
Click to expand...

That's the core of the issue right there. They introduced something after that driver that is causing it.
 
Just did the whole uninstall in safe mode, driver cleaner in safe mode, and reinstall of latest drivers. It picks up 640x480 now, but it does a lot of other weird things which were probably present in earlier versions, but I was looking for them. Namely, although I'm using the Win7 FW900 drivers, many of the resolutions/timings that the nvidia control panel lists do not follow with the preset resolutions in the FW900 manual. I think this is probably why it's scaling (even though that's pretty weird). I've been adding the fw900 manual preset ones into the custom resolutions in the nvidia control panel and been having luck with them both on the desktop and in games.

Rock&Roll - I'm interested in seeing what experience you have with the 190.62 drivers. I think that sticking with the 180.50s is ok for the short term, but eventually you'll run into something that will require a driver update to work.

For what it's worth, NVidia support elevated my help request to someone who was able to analyze the problem and say it wasn't normal rather than just follow a troubleshooting scrip. This person suggested what Cyberbeing did: uninstall, driver cleaner, reinstall latest. Although there still appears to be some weirdness, I'm much happier with customer support at this point in time.

I'm going to do a card upgrade this Fall. I'm starting to think about going ATI this time.
 
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sixstringmonk said:
I'm going to do a card upgrade this Fall. I'm starting to think about going ATI this time.
Click to expand...

Don't. ATI's CRT support is even WORSE. I have not been able to get any sort of decent resolution + refresh rate control happening on my Server 2008 box (aka Windows Vista) with ATI, so I'm back on NVIDIA now.

What's sad is that I paid a nice premium to get two 4850s on launch day, only to find out that they suck with FW900. Those cards are now relegated to my HTPC on LCD.
 
Is there anything I can do about the buzzing on my monitor? If I put my ear over the vents on top of the monitor I can hear it more clearly. Changing res or refresh rate didn't do anything. It's not a loud buzz, it's kind of faint but it never goes away and at night when everything is quiet it gets on my nerves. My old FW900 that I just sold was silent.
 
LAGRUNAUER said:
I do have actual pictures of brand new GDM-FW900s packed in the original boxes. We have sold a few of them this year and I kept some pictures of them. Let me know and I will email you some of them.

Take care...

Unkle Vito!
Click to expand...

I sent you a private message with my email address in, but I have not received any email with the pictures.

Did you not receive my email address? Or is it a problem at my end? Would you like me to PM it to you again?

Thanks
 
S-B said:
Don't. ATI's CRT support is even WORSE. I have not been able to get any sort of decent resolution + refresh rate control happening on my Server 2008 box (aka Windows Vista) with ATI, so I'm back on NVIDIA now.

What's sad is that I paid a nice premium to get two 4850s on launch day, only to find out that they suck with FW900. Those cards are now relegated to my HTPC on LCD.
Click to expand...

This guide I put together last year has worked on every version of Windows for me so far:

ati_regedit_custom_refresh.jpg


Works nicely in conjunction with rivatuners refresh rate override for gaming (injection mode).

I'm currently running 1024x640@150hz for old fps games (170hz works, but I'd like this monitor to last). For general PC use I have 1280x800@120hz.
 
vafan13 said:
I forget, when you do image restoration, does it need to be at a certain contrast/brightness or does it not matter?
Click to expand...

In my experience, it made no difference, but some users suggested to set the brightness higher, say at 60-70 then deploy the image restore. Try it...
 
coolhandm3 said:
So as some may know, I purchased a few months ago almost brand new FW900 from UncleVito on eBay. The monitor died on me after three days of use. So I got it fixed this past week, the vertical chip on the A1 board fried.... not cool.

So now the monitor turns on... BUT now there is no RED, none at all. Even with nothing hooked up tot he monitor and it has that default check screen red is black as in not there at all. IM really baffled by this and so I called the tech who fixed it and he said it was perfect when it left his place and that during transit something may have come loose...

Anyone have any ideas? I have opened it up and I see nothing loose in the monitor and I am totally stumped!
Click to expand...

Luke:

Your A1 board is going to you this week. I was out sick the weekend and I'm just getting back to normal...

Look for it in the mail shortly...

Unkle Vito!
 
innocenceisdeath said:
I sent you a private message with my email address in, but I have not received any email with the pictures.

Did you not receive my email address? Or is it a problem at my end? Would you like me to PM it to you again?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Test email worked... The pictures are on its way to you shortly...

Unkle Vito!
 
LAGRUNAUER said:
Test email worked... The pictures are on its way to you shortly...

Unkle Vito!
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot!

On another note, I found out recently that if you bought one of the SGI brand monitors and experienced problems, SGI wouldn't even attempt to fix it but simply replaced them. Seems rather odd to me. Does anyone have any views on this?
 
LAGRUNAUER said:
Luke:

Your A1 board is going to you this week. I was out sick the weekend and I'm just getting back to normal...

Look for it in the mail shortly...

Unkle Vito!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the update! Your really a stand up guy and I really appreciate it! Hope you feel better!
 
Is it still possible to get a BNIB FW900? What do they cost these days?
 
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art schools and houses sometimes still have these in storage as backups. They make it sale once in a while. Last one I saw was $1500....sold new in box and with no warranty / testing allowed. My money is it was dropped and they weren't sure if it worked or not anymore.
 
coolhandm3 said:
headless said:
Is it still possible to get a BNIB FW900? What do they cost these days?
Click to expand...
Unkle Vito may have a new one, I would think they would be going for about $1700-$1900 new considering the rarity and quality of the product.
Click to expand...
Sony themselves were selling the last of their BNIB GDM-F520 stock for $575 shipped not long ago, which would likely place a Sony sold BNIB GDM-FW900 at ~$850 shipped (if they actually had any, which they don't).

Of course Sony views these CRTs as an end-of-life product and priced them accordingly, while most individual sellers price for maximum profit. So it may be true that someone may try to sell a BNIB GDM-FW900 for $1700-$1900 considering the rarity, but if someone would actually buy one for such a price today is yet to be seen.
 
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I really hate LCD's. They just went and fucked everyone over with their inferior color reproduction and shitty input lag. It's been what, 10 years, and we still can't find an LCD that looks as good and responds as well as a middle of the road 21" from back in the day. Bah, humbug
 
Cyberbeing said:
Sony themselves were selling the last of their BNIB GDM-F520 stock for $575 shipped not long ago, which would likely place a Sony sold BNIB GDM-FW900 at ~$850 shipped (if they actually had any, which they don't).

Of course Sony views these CRTs as an end-of-life product and priced them accordingly, while most individual sellers price for maximum profit. So it may be true that someone may try to sell a BNIB GDM-FW900 for $1700-$1900 considering the rarity, but if someone would actually buy one for such a price today is yet to be seen.
Click to expand...

No kidding. For that kind of money you could get a small plasma and probably work out some sort of setup. At least plasma comes CLOSE on the color reproduction, black levels, and the response time, of a CRT. A lot closer than LCD.
 
Cyberbeing said:
Sony themselves were selling the last of their BNIB GDM-F520 stock for $575 shipped not long ago, which would likely place a Sony sold BNIB GDM-FW900 at ~$850 shipped (if they actually had any, which they don't).

Of course Sony views these CRTs as an end-of-life product and priced them accordingly, while most individual sellers price for maximum profit. So it may be true that someone may try to sell a BNIB GDM-FW900 for $1700-$1900 considering the rarity, but if someone would actually buy one for such a price today is yet to be seen.
Click to expand...

Really can't extrapolate it like that. A 21" monitor they more than likely had a hard time moving, the 24" widescreen would have flown off the shelves.

Also others talking plasma would match up....what screen and how would you run it?
 
You can get the 50" Pioneer KRP-500M for 1700. It is the Pioneer Kuro without the HD tuner or speakers. I'm sure you all know about the Pioneer Kuro. I'm heavily leaning towards selling my 60" Sony SXRD for one of those, and my SXRD is very good for a digital set.

The Pioneer KRP-600M runs about 2400 usd which is out of my range but if I was just now buying an HDTV you better believe I'd be all over it. The regular Kuro's regularly sell for 4-6k usd.

Who the fuck needs a tuner and shitty speakers anyway?
 
alkemyst said:
Really can't extrapolate it like that. A 21" monitor they more than likely had a hard time moving, the 24" widescreen would have flown off the shelves.

Also others talking plasma would match up....what screen and how would you run it?
Click to expand...

Last ones I remember (SGI version of the FW900 that AccurateIT had) sold in 2005 for around $2500...
 
UnclePauly09 said:
You can get the 50" Pioneer KRP-500M for 1700. It is the Pioneer Kuro without the HD tuner or speakers. I'm sure you all know about the Pioneer Kuro. I'm heavily leaning towards selling my 60" Sony SXRD for one of those, and my SXRD is very good for a digital set.

The Pioneer KRP-600M runs about 2400 usd which is out of my range but if I was just now buying an HDTV you better believe I'd be all over it. The regular Kuro's regularly sell for 4-6k usd.

Who the fuck needs a tuner and shitty speakers anyway?
Click to expand...

poor choice for a monitor though...as an HDTV the FW900 is not the thing to go with...as a computer monitor esp gaming or for high end color work it's ideal.
 
In my experience, Plasmas look much better than LCDs at TV watching viewing distances. They don't make for good displays if they are a few inches from your face because of the color dithering that plasmas do.
 
alkemyst said:
A 21" monitor they more than likely had a hard time moving, the 24" widescreen would have flown off the shelves.
Click to expand...
That is just speculation. You seem to be forgetting that the GDM-F520 is the highest quality CRT ever made, and it still has quite a following in the photography world. If you believe the GDM-F520 would have trouble moving, by the same measure so would the GDM-FW900. Widescreen isn't the be-all end-all, yet looking on store shelves may make you believe otherwise, and like the CRTs themselves, people who appreciate CRTs are unfortunately a dying breed.

In any case, there is more to it than that, as Sony themselves didn't even realize they had them until late 2008. Long story short, I was the sole cause of Sony inadvertently discovering a stash of six BNIB GDM-F520 hidden in their Japanese warehouse. Soon after, Sony was selling them in America for $300 less then refurbished ones.

My theory: The expensive refurbished ones were priced by Sony America and the BNIB ones were priced by Sony Japan HQ. That said, if Sony Japan had found a stash of GDM-FW900 instead of GDM-F520 they very well would have seen a similar pricing break to somewhere around $850 as I stated above.
 
I'd be happy with an F520. In fact, i'd be more likely to buy it than the FW900, since it'd be lighter, lower power usage, and smaller desk footprint. As it is, i've broken 2 desks by having 2 21's on them...
 
UnclePauly09 said:
You can get the 50" Pioneer KRP-500M for 1700. It is the Pioneer Kuro without the HD tuner or speakers. I'm sure you all know about the Pioneer Kuro. I'm heavily leaning towards selling my 60" Sony SXRD for one of those, and my SXRD is very good for a digital set.

The Pioneer KRP-600M runs about 2400 usd which is out of my range but if I was just now buying an HDTV you better believe I'd be all over it. The regular Kuro's regularly sell for 4-6k usd.

Who the fuck needs a tuner and shitty speakers anyway?
Click to expand...

Having tried doing fast paced gaming on a 40" LCD TV, I wasn't impressed with the response time at all. Actually, I should clarify. To get an image that wasn't completely bland in color accuracy, you make a heavy sacrifice in response time (sometimes 1 to 3 frames of lag). This kills in an FPS game. The other option is to run the TV in "game" mod which bypasses all the color adjustments and other circuitry to give you super fast response time. If I wanted to do any gaming on an LCD, I would stick with a "monitor" and not a television.
 
alkemyst said:
poor choice for a monitor though...as an HDTV the FW900 is not the thing to go with...as a computer monitor esp gaming or for high end color work it's ideal.
Click to expand...

The FW900 has a spectacular HDTV picture. And for years, it just destroyed everything else. Though I suppose you are referring to its small size... :)
 
Rock&Roll said:
Having tried doing fast paced gaming on a 40" LCD TV, I wasn't impressed with the response time at all. Actually, I should clarify. To get an image that wasn't completely bland in color accuracy, you make a heavy sacrifice in response time (sometimes 1 to 3 frames of lag). This kills in an FPS game. The other option is to run the TV in "game" mod which bypasses all the color adjustments and other circuitry to give you super fast response time. If I wanted to do any gaming on an LCD, I would stick with a "monitor" and not a television.
Click to expand...

Game modes on TVs can be ugly.

Samsung has a PC mode that retains good color, if that is fast enough in terms of lag for you. (Depends on the TV though. As always, a good return policy is essential...)
 
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