24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.

[Sony Windas]

I have mine that I just took off today....you can have it..and I would love to know where I can buy a new one if you happen to know that.

The closest I've come to finding a new Sony anti glare coating was a reference in AVS forums about a coating being sold on Sony Parts for a CRT TV. Unfortunately, I don't have a Sony Service account, so I couldn't verify. Anyone who does have such an account could give us an update on what parts are still in stock.

However, 3M , and likely others, have anti glare coatings with even less reflection. There seem to be two popular grades, 95% glare reduction, and 99%. I've seen an evaluation by the military of the FW900, stating 5% or so reflectance, so I"m guessing its of the 95% grade, but I'm not sure about what these numbers really mean.I picked this up by reading marketing literature though. In reality, it differs according to the wavelength of the incident light. This is why faint reflections off the coating take on a purple/red appearance.

The transmittance of these anti glare coatings is 93%! Of course, ambient light goes right through and back from off the phosphors, ruining black level. At least, in a dark room, it'd keep your face from reflecting as glare.

I guess you didn't read my post then!

4000 posts, took me hours to read through it once about a year ago (3000 some then).

Sorry about the AR coating. I just took mine off last week and tossed it in the ca. It appeared to be a tint to the plastic and a sprayed on coating. I tried removing the sprayed on portion with isopropyl alcohol but was too much work to get it all off. It was kinda black like graphite. This left over a heavily tinted piece of plastic sheet. I could turn my brightness way down after taking if off. It is highly receptable to reflections now. I may add a 3m film again in the future without the tint in it. I did this on my NAV system screen in my car and it works great. However, if I don't have to I won't. The screen is even more magnificent with the coating off. Razer sharp and BRIGHT!! Colors more vivid, etc.

I've actually heard isopropyl alcohol is supposed to be safe on the hard coat films.At least I hope so, as I've recently been using it. It doesn't bead up the way water does, it dries quickly, but it leaves streaks if it's not dried quickly with a cloth. I wildly guessed the hard coat is polycarbonate, on Wikipedia
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycarbonate) isopropyl is listed as safe, along with other substances that sound really dangerous. Ammonia was listed as bad, so it fits the common knowledge of Windex making faint streaks in anti glare coatings.

On a monitor with a few deep chunks of anti glare coating scrapped out of it in the corner, I tried a 'super glue' ( cyanoacrylate) repair. It dried remarkably clear, indistinguishable from the original plastic by eye. Unfortunately, it didn't dry just flat, so I went at it with plastic polish. I observed the same as you. It is a 'sprayed on' coating, incredibly thin, almost like a fog. From what I've found about anti reflective coatings, they are sputter coated in a vacuum environment, in layers only molecules thick.

For the record, I don't recommend using super glue, as it dries almost instantly, not flat, and it 'dissolves' away more than the original damage.

Graphite black sounds neutral, hopefully it is. If it's tinted in any way, adjustments could be made to compensate.

Well, I'm also now using my FW 900 with the anti glare coating removed and it still looks great...and no more annoying scratch..

On another note, I hooked up my BNC cable and I cant get a picture...do I need to change anything to make it work?

Besides switching to Input 2, I don't think so... well, you do need to manually set your video timings, as there's no DDC line which your OS probably uses to detect your monitor and choose a timing. You should at least get something.

Speaking of BNC cables, has anyone hoard of the MP-1 mod? This guy named Mike Parker has modified his video card to have 75 Ohm characteristic impedance through out. 5 BNC coax connectors right from your card. He sells a kit for $100. I'm skeptical about what this really gains, besides being able to use really thick, low attenuation RG-11 cable. Supposedly, having different impedance can cause reflections? I don't understand it really, but I have noticed that a weakly connected cable causes ghosting, and I've heard that connector impedance matters in some situations.

You are very right, this thread contains a lot of good info but with it scattered over so many pages of posts it's pretty much useless, organization is definitely needed. I think an owners club sounds like a great idea. I could probably contribute a good amount to it since I own a total of 4 Trinitron CRT's and have experience with several others as well. (Diamondtrons etc..). I've also logged a lot of time with Windas and know it inside out.

I'm glad you agree.Hopefully we won't be alone and can get something going soon.

I have 5 Trinitron CRT's myself, I'm still searching for some Diamondtrons ( can't wait to try out SpectraView). The difference between to a low to mid end shadow mask CRT, and an aperture grill CRT is astounding. Pixel shades become clearly defined, revealing detail I didn't even know was there.
Even more advantageous than aperture grill, would be no mask at all. Does anyone here use mono chrome displays? The NeXT stuff used to come with them back in the early 90s. With fast extinction phosphors it should make for a very high contrast, focus, resolution and frame rate experience. Inherently 3x the resolution of the equivalent color display, not sure about the contrast enhancement from having none of the beam blocked by a grille.

Yes please do send him the coating for analysis, I'd be very interested to find out if it could be suitably replaced. I noticed a couple more scratches on the screen of my newly acquired FW900, they don't bother me that much but it would still be great to have a perfect screen.

I'd remove the coating now but when I did that with my G520 I was not too pleased with the result. The extra glare wasn't an issue but I found even a small amount of light on in the room made the picture look washed out. It only looked good to me with all lights off. Maybe the FW900 is different somehow but I'm not sure I wanna risk it.

Anyone got better connections with a school or work lab? I don't actually have my own spectrophotometer, and I still need to inquire about access to one at my school.The best I can do on my own is measure with a 4 filter colorimeter the light from a P22 monitor without any coating, and measure it again through the coating sample.

I could at least tell if it's tinted a color.

How could I tell if it just blocked most of the non peak phosphor emissions? I'd imagine that wouldn't change the color reading a lot, it'd just seem dimmer. Yet, a neutral density filter, equally absorbing all frequencies, would also not change color and seem dimmer.

Once the absorption by frequency is known, the pigments or dyes in the coating could probably be guessed, or substitutes could be found. There are some patents detailing how to mix and apply these various color contrast coatings.

If the screen coating does use such dyes, removing the coating will still increase contrast. However, the range of color that can be produced will be reduced. There are a few extra processes in the production of high end tubes to increase the color gamut. There is a color filter mask inside the tube with dyes that shapes the spectral emissions from the phosphors. Cheap CRTs compromise with dyes mixed in the phosphors, or no dyes at all. Unfortunately, all CRTs made today are the cheap kind.

Has anyone with a colorimeter taken, or is thinking about taking off, the anti-glare coating? They'd be in a position to do a before and after measure of the gamut, not that it'd help much other than to explain whether there is a difference or not.

Actually, one of the more irritating things with these monitors is halation. In a pitch black room, you can see reflections of bright areas of the screen on the dark areas. Reflections of the internal glass surface. You'd think Sony would try to avoid that. (They probably did.. but, obviously didn't do good enough. There are a few patents describing ways to avoid this.)

I typed a lot again ... oh well. I won't use annoying colors like I did last time, even though it helps people skimming when this is post is 300 or more posts down.

 

[Sony Windas]

aaa

 

[Sony Windas]

Yeah, Maybe a CRT-wiki would be a good idea. It would also be a good collected place for people to deal in second-hand monitors.

A wiki was exactly what I was thinking too. I didn't think of a marketplace, then, if the wiki picks up, it would be the focus of a lot of CRT interest.Now that you mentioned it, I can't help but rant about the second hand CRT market.

Tragically, the only way to get a decent CRT now is second hand If the e-waste recyclers had one place to list their CRTs to reach the whole market, we'd save so many tubes from the evil glass recyclers.

It'd be cool to take the guess work out of it. It's so frustrating to look on ebay where everybody claims, 'barely used' 'still bright and vibrant colors', with a stock photo for the picture. It seems, the only auction you can really trust, is on an un-opened box.
Yes, there are some unscrupulous people who will sell a very deteriorated tube as though it's normal. Unless you have a good tube to compare with, it's hard to tell. Unless it's really bad, in which it'll be unusually dim with poor focus, large spot size.

It'd be cool to have, in addition to free listings, a premium, 'honest markteplace'. In order to list, the listing has to include some crucial info. Say, pictures of screen at max contrast and brightness, and min contrast and brightness of several test patterns, with EXIF data so same aperture and shutter speed is ensured. Other test patterns would probably help too. Colorimetry readings if possible. Measures of voltages.A picture of inside the cabinet (to be taken before pictures of test patterns,hopefully) . A dump of the .dat settings.

Unfortunately, not everyone has a way to measure the light output, or even a windas cable to show the settings. Maybe not even a digital camera.
Of course, people could still lie and manipulate pictures. Probably not wise if it's a local pickup, but what about when shipping?

Why would any seller go through the trouble of taking pictures, uploading the .dat, taking color readings, and measuring voltages?

Hopefully, because people would feel safer offering/bidding more when they know exactly what they're getting. I've seen a monitor 'barely used' not even get bid on, while I've seen the same monitor new in the box go for $900. I've also noticed many times higher bids when people claim to have it 'factory re calibrated to original Sony Specs', which I can only imagine means the guy played around with windas.

I have no idea if people trust Accurate IT's 'A' 'B' 'C' ratings. It seems they only can evaluate cosmetic damage, and obvious image issues like geometry, convergence, coarse focus, retrace lines. No way they'd be measuring max contrast and color gamut, and so the wear on the tube of the 'A' grade monitor is any body's guess.

Well, at least that's my crazy dream of an ideal monitor marketplace. If only...

 

[Millz]

I got this monitor (sony gdm fw900) for $150 2 weeks ago, used it two or three times then had to leave town for a week. when i came back i tried to turn it on but i heard this popping noise and it wouldn't turn on. i investigated and could see that there was some electricity sparking/arcing on some metal on the top, inside the plastic chasis.

when it was working the guy i bought it from had it in perfect condition, the colors and convergence were perfect, nothing wrong with it at all until the electricity popping thing.

is this thing a $150 dead weight now, or can i fix it? suggestions? thanks.

Does anyone have any suggestions on my previous post?^^^

What do you guys think about if i try to take it to a computer repair shop and see if they can repair electrical problems with CRT's?

 

[raphash]

Hey there Millz...

I am still relatively new to this whole thing but from what I read, in the million posts for this FW900 monitor, it kind of sounds like maybe the power supply of the monitor went bad.

There is only one way to find out... get yourself a WinDAS cable, WinDAS software, and hook it up and get the .dat file off it to see what kind of errors you are getting. It's gonna take some research on your part to figure this out but this thread, rather long I know, has a TON of information that would assist you in this regard. It's just gonna take you some time to read through it all.

I just remember someone making a post in here stating that their monitor wasn't turning on and the .dat error message he was getting was no power which meant the PS was dead.

You could call around to TV repair shops and see if they might be able to offer their expertise in this regard.

Good luck to ya! Don't throw it away... keep it and do what you can to fix it if you CAN fix it. After much tweaking and spending time with my FW900, I am in heaven now... it was totally worth it!

 

[Sony Windas]

Does anyone have any suggestions on my previous post?^^^

What do you guys think about if i try to take it to a computer repair shop and see if they can repair electrical problems with CRT's?

It depends on what is arcing. I'd open it up and see. Check youtube and you can find videos of people safely discharging picture tubes and big power supply caps.

You can get the service manual free online, it's very detailed and lists all safety precautions.
The FW900 (and other Sonys)is a pleasure to disassemble and re assemble again (I've done it twice). The service manual has diagrams of all the harness and screw locations, so you won't miss a beat.

I've read about a guy who's flyback transformer was arcing, so he replaced it with a generic cheaper than Sony was selling (Sony's is $100 or so last I heard). The arcing is more of a problem if it takes place between the grids in the tube. The monitor becoming blurry and 'popping' back into focus is usually a symptom of shorts in the tube. These can be carefully removed by intentionally causing an arc to burn it away.
It doesn't take a college degree to service electronics, they only go through a little training. You can find free copies of the chassis training manuals the very professionals learned from.Read about this stuff online, non-professionals have had a lot of success. Many who have never opened a monitor before found the 'resistor mod' no problem at all.

If you decide to take it to a repair place, make sure they have the service manual (if not, give them a copy).

The Sony authorized service centers have access to all the service bulletins and original parts.(And the latest windas) Not sure if they'd charge more.

However, I know of people who sent their overly bright tube in to a Sony service center. It came back with a diagnosis of 'bad CRT'. This occurred over at Icrontic, (then ShortMedia) on the P1110 too bright thread.
The emusicraft guy was kind enough to tell me that he'd been to service centers where they said the over-brightness problem was a bad flyback, but suspiciously, they didn't seem to be replacing it (Windas suspected).

So, professional repair places can be 'hit or miss'.

If you have a multi meter (under $10 if you don't, and useful for a variety of things), you can probably get a good idea of what's wrong by yourself, with almost no time and money.Post pictures and measurements to the thread, or start a new thread in monitor repair forums. Some people may be able to help, especially with this very well known and documented monitor.

 

[ellover009]

Has anyone used one of those HD Fury to use their PS3 with this monitor?
http://www.hdfury.com/
It's supposed to have some type of HDCP chipset to allow you to watch full 1080P on your monitor.
It all ends up at invest in this, or wait till the end of the year till I make the jump to a HD television. Anyone used this?
Reason's to invest in something now is so I can enjoy Gran Turismo 5 prologue and GTA4 when it comes out.

 

[sprak74]

Have anyone tried to rotate this massive monitor to portrait aspect? Do you think it will break the case and bezel if I did? Maybe cushioning it with something may help. I would love to have in portrait mode for photo editing.

 

[Guitarrasdeamor]

This looks pretty sweet man...I kinda want one, just would be sooo big!

 

[Sony Windas]

Sprak if he has FOCUS problems then windas won't do shit, and yeah if only one side of the screen is out of focus that's actually worse than two sides. As near as I can tell the focus pots adjust the whole screen in some sort of symmetrical pattern, so if you've gut focus problems unevenly you're going to have to settle for getting the center sharp and the edges evenly blurry.

You need to make sure the Dynamic Focus circuitry is operating in spec.

Are the components in spec? Are the inputs and outputs of the Dynamic Focus circuit in spec? If the inputs are bad, something else is causing the problem.

Some people just replace all the caps in the suspected circuit. These are usually the components which go bad from heat.

As far as checking inputs/outputs, a totally cheapo, 1960s, heathkit scope can handle the several hundred KHz found in CRT deflection and dynamic correction circuits. Seriously consider this instead of spending hundreds on a new one, which very well may develop problems itself.

I've heard the reason Dynamic Focus is not adjustable is because CRT design has become advanced to the point where adjustments aren't needed. Some lesser monitors actually do have adjustable dynamic focus ala WinDAS. I guess no one found any focus registers in their .dat. I've totally reset a monitor's registers and the focus was still sharp corner to corner so I seriously doubt there is a focus adjustment in DAS.

Look carefully. are you having focus issues or convergence issues? If you're getting convergence problems Windas will be able to fix it, if the monitor's actually out of focus you need to dick with the focus pots and you're probably going to need to settle for getting the center "good enough" and leave the edges somewhat blurry.

A worn out tube, with low phosphor efficiency, and large cathode emission area, will seem to be out of focus, even more so with higher contrast. This is because the beam density is so thick the focus circuitry cannot reduce it to a smaller spot size. It's been described as blooming.

The edges can be saved by maintaining the Dynamic Convergence circuit described above.

I've also noticed a lot of people who mistake poor convergence for poor focus. I made the mistake myself on my P991 from it's poor display of a crosshatch pattern. Adjusting Dynamic Convergence remarkably improved it.

PLEASE HELP just got my fw900 BEAUTIFUL!!!! i love it WOW but one problem ..... about 2 inches on the right side of the monitor is blurry :-( how to fix this without messing with the rest of the screen which happens to be PERFECT!!!!! PLEASE HELP

You have to have a look at the Dynamic Convergence circuit described above.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sony-GDM-FW900-...222043430QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item260222043430

Since I live in Ann Arbor, Michigan and this is only 20 minutes away, I've been strongly considering going to pick it up. I tried reading through all 197 pages, but I could only get to 20. Help me decide whether or not to pick this up or just get an LCD. .......n I go up there with a laptop to test it out before I buy it, I'll know what to change around in order to get the best picture to know if it's worth plopping down $200 for?

Also, I've read that CRT isnt as good for text. Exactly how much more difficult is it to read text on this monitor? How much more uncomfortable will I feel spending 6+ hours in front of this thing?

Ultimately, should I go buy this monitor this weekend? I'll have to spend up to $100 on taxi fares to get there and back, and I want to make sure that if I get up there, the monitor is in superb shape, and I plunk down two Benjamins for it and lug it all the way back to my dorm, that over time I'll be satisfied with it from here until kingdom come.

If you do a lot of text, LCD is better. There is a font rendering technique called sub pixel hinting that doesn't work out very well on non fixed pixel displays such as CRT.
(Sure, if you use special callibration tools (or have a lot of ingenuity and time), and have the highest quality signal, you can make a CRT act as a fixed pixel display... well FW900 would be even more challenging, as it has a variable phosphor dot pitch.)

If you want color accuracy, LED backlit IPS panels are expensive, and are almost as good as CRT, even exceeding their color reproduction for some shades.
Getting a used LCD is nothing near as irritating as getting a used CRT. LCDs, depending on their back lighting, retain their color reproduction ability almost indefinitely compared to CRT.

Phosphor displays burn out. Screen burn in is just un-even aging.The program that repairs plasma/CRT screen burn in is simply wearing the rest of your display down to match the low quality of the burned in pattern.
With the whole brightness fluke, I highly doubt you'll be able to find a FW900 that will calibrate. The high brightness wears out phosphor rapidly.

Depending on where you set contrast, CRTs don't last long under daily use.

So then, why doesn't everyone just get a used (read cheap), long lasting LED backlit IPS panel?

IPS has longer transition times than TN. The manufacturer usually fudges the numbers to make the transition time seem more advantageous.

If you could believe the numbers, LCD ghosting would be no problem.

Consider 60Hz 85Hz 100Hz even 120Hz
1/60= 16.66 ms 1/85= 11.7ms 1/100= 10 ms 1/120= 8.33 ms

So why does transition time, or response time, matter? Some people say they see it, some people say they don't. People have to start listing the specs of where they've seen this LCD ghosting.

However, it is true, you may want over 120Hz for stereo. So LCD is out in that respect.. unless you use the special stereo LCDs. There are a variety of techniques, most halve the resolution for stereo mode.

Most significantly, the LCD is extremely bright. If you have to read books or papers at the same time you use your display, or if you like sunlight to fill your room, LCD would suit you better than a CRT that isn't going to give you better picture quality while in bright light anyway.

So, despite the loads of subjective 'evidence' against LCDs on this thread, LCD isn't total trash (some are though). The CRT usually demands a little maintenance.

Here is my problem, the two monitors that are working great for me... they BOTH seem really really dim to me... I have adjusted the contrast and brightness accordingly and blacks look great as well as whites... it's just that no matter how I tweak them, they just don't have much of a real GLOW to them... I have warmed them up for a real lengthy time and to no avail... it's like I have to strain my eyes because they are so dim...

Thanks!

Is the warm up also dim? I've heard of a 'dim warmup' and dim overall performance. In fact I've had a Sony tube from 1998 that was very dim. Adjusting the G2 to make it brighter helps, though I'm not sure what the real issues was. I'd check G2 voltage is in spec. If it is, maybe something is funny with the amplifiers controlling the cathode/G1 voltages. If they're not out of focus with large spot size, it's probably not tube wear.

Going by what everyone in this thread has said so far WinDAS does not adjust focus at all, the only thing it does is gamma/brightness and a slightly more specific convergence. I think the problem is that shadowmask monitors just seem to last longer than aperture grille ones and since CRTs basically stopped being made sometime around 2002 or so all the ones out now are just too old.

Conjecture aside, I'd say you're screwed. You probably have the same problem I do and as far as I know it means that the tube itself is dying and no longer capable of producing a sharp image at all, let alone edge to edge. I'm also willing to go out on a limb and predict that brighter colors such as yellow or orange and so on are much less in focus than darker ones and that black-on-grey text like you find in firefox/IE's favorites menu is more in focus than the rest.

My only suggestion is try switching to 1600x1200. For me it's more in focus (and brighter) than any of the widescreen resolutions, hopefully it will help for you too. If you can get a full refund I'd jump that, if not try and sell it to someone that finds the picture acceptable.

Aperture grille would theoretically last longer. It doesn't block so much of the electron beam.

About 1600x1200 being brighter, I've noticed that lower resolutions and refresh do make the screen seem brighter and more colorful on a number of monitors. I suspect this is because the lower bandwidth video signal isn't attenuated as much.

This is certainly not because it is a 4:3 letter boxed mode. I've heard someone say that the monitor can focus it's energy on a smaller area, and because of that it is brighter. If you think about it, this can't make sense. If you try making the area of the screen smaller with the geometry settings, you don't get a boost.

I have a cheap Dell brand shadow mask CRT at work which is considerably sharper than this FW900. I can look it all day with no eye strain. Am I correct in assuming that the FW900 I received is defective? People that are praising them do have units that are sharp enough edge to edge for long term use? I should be able to get usable focus without a WinDAS calibration, right?

tl;dr: I bought an A- monitor I can't get focused. Gives me a headache it's so bad. Can a properly tuned FW900 have comparable sharpness to a cheapo Dell brand shadow mask CRT?

What dot pitch is that dell? A low dot pitch, high quality shadow mask CRT is said to have sharper text. However, if you turn the contrast down a bit, and look closely with an 8x magnifying lens, you can see that only a single phosphor row glows, rather than the blooming when contrast is high on an old tube.

Shadow mask inherently blocks more beam, and so probably avoids 'spill over' better than aperture grill. Invar shadow mask can withstand even higher beam current without warping. Once the tube gets old enough though, contrast tweaks will likely warp the mask. I personally prefer Trinitron aperture grill wires over NEC's slot mask, simply because I know the wires won't warp. However, I suspect they can loosen as I've seen dirty purity on some tubes. (I don't know.. they are held extremely tight maybe they can't loosen? I really don't know.)

As long as this thread is active again, anybody know a way to adjust image focus other than the 2 focus pots?

Play with the Dynamic Focus Circuitry.

Also, there's been a nasty problem with the GDM FW900 that I haven't heard solved.

It's been described as poor focus that can't be fixed with the pots. Some described it as snow. Closest I've seen to a solution was a service bulletin that said to replace an IC. Fortunately, this is a CRT, and another way can be improvised if this IC is ever un available.

I've done the dynamic convergence calibration in WINDAS, and it helped a lot, but this is something else. Could be nice with a dynamic focus calibration.
Actually i managed to get the sides even more out of focus by skipping through the alignment procedure without correcting any values. So, maybe the focus adjustment is there somewhere in all the unnamed registers in the DAT file.
Hmm.. I guess one should check which values the alignment procedure changes and then check them one by one...

I hope you're right that there is focus adjustment. I've lost hope though.

I've reset my P991, and redid every procedure. Focus was never bad, and I was never prompted to adjust it.

if sony was smart theyd but this thing back into production- maybe release a new version with HDMI + DisplayPort and other new features

its simply the ultimate gaming monitor- i cant belive crts have been completely neglected

It cost $2,000 for a reason. The profit margins were not very high on this thing.

CRTs are still sold in the developing world. However, these are CRTs made with all corners cut. They are not very high quality, many production line steps are left out, such as black matrix, and color filters.

Why don't you believe the 8ms response times of IPS panels? (I don't either, I'm just asking) LED backlit LCD has pretty much beat CRT. LCD has long beat the CRT on brightness, cost, and text readability with sub pixel hinting.

Laser illumination has delivered a color gamut that makes CRT look black and white (ever play with the 'COLOR' control on your TV?). No screen burn in or age deterioration. I personally think this is a serious edge over phosphor based SED/FED, and the low longevity OLED OED displays.

An CRT HMD is impractical, but LCD HMDs are beginning to become affordable.

DLP's DMDs achieve a faster frame rate with no phosphor after glow as in CRT. Imagine laser illuminated, stereo, 72" screens... cheaper to produce than CRT. A superb gamma correction factor and I'd say it'd beat CRT on all points.

Don't weep for CRT. If it were still the only technology, high display quality would be out of reach of most people.

Anyone here hear a faint popping noise from their monitor every so often while its running?

This might be arcing. The question is, is it in the tube, or outside the tube?

Some people are able to burn out impurities causing arcing inside the tube by simply leaving the tube on. Less lucky users will have to find which grids the arcing is occurring between, and burn out the impurity with intentional arcing. It sounds scary, but you can find people who have done this.

If it's outside the tube, it depends where. One guy had an arcing flyback, and once replaced, the monitor was good as new.

My Sony FW900 that I bought from a guy on ebay who claimed it was perfect lied. So after wrestling with the amount he basically refunded me the shipping and I found another monitor (HP this time) for a lot less money.

I have the WinDAS Cable and here is the problem that the monitor arrived with.

1. Convergence is off and can only be calibrated with the cable only to return to bad convergence a week later.

2. Focus is only clear from 60Hz to 75Hz at the max, once you go above 85Hz the picture gets real fuzzy. I am running a nVidia 8800GTS 512MB video card. The two focus pods will not eliminate this, I can focus all I want but once you get above 85Hz it will not clear up.

3. It now makes a loud pop about every 5-10 minutes where the screen goes discolored and it looks like it shuts off for a second and then comes back on.

The good is the color, contrast, brightness, screen, and outer case are all in nice shape.

So I know this problem is out of my league and I want to bring it to a TV repair shop. Does anyone know what is causing my issue so when I talk with the repair guy I can explain what it might be? Also what kind of money do you think it will cost to repair this?

This is very interesting. So high bandwidth modes and the focus deteriorates? I think maybe the signal is getting blurred and is not able to swing from white to black very rapidly. Not actually focus. (Not an expert, I don't really know)

If it's making arcing noises and becoming discolored, you have G1 arcs. This may also be the thing messing up your amplified video signal at high bandwidth. Or perhaps, the arcing has damaged your video amplifiers, but there is protection from this type of problem.

Is the focus better or worse if you do single colors? Some colors better focused than others?

I just bought one of these and its seriously awesome, perfect condition screen, no damage to the box or to the anti-glare coat and the brightness is fine when the onscreen is set to 30 so a long way from overbright issues.

I do however have one small issue - Down the bottom in the middle to middle right there is a yellowish blotch. Its not bad but it looks like a very faint coffee stain or some such.

From reading around general concensus seems to be a purity adjustment on the magnets on the yoke of the tube. If I sit a small surround sound satellite speaker underneath the front of the screen where the blotch is, it goes away completely - again reinforcing my belief this can be adjusted out with the magnets in the back.

Any opinions? Also where would I take it to have this done or is this something I can do myself (Im a computer tech so not afraid to get my hands dirty...or sparky as the case may be).

You do not want to mess with the yolk purity magnets. This is extremely difficult to get right, and it's certainly not causing a small blotch. The purity magnets in the back affect much more of the whole screen. (actually, mostly a circle in the center of the screen.) These magnets would not affect purity in a blotchy sort of way either.

You need to thoroughly degauss, or play with magnetic fields in the corner, adjusted via the landing adjustment.

Today is a sad day for me my monitor died I'd been figuring something was up as of late been hearing these pops and cracks when the thing came on and the screen was getting loopy at times. If anyone knows where to a find a used one of these things again let me know.

This sounds like shorts in the tube. I assume by loopy you mean focus? You can fix this by burning away the shorts. There's more information about this technique online.

How do you expect to find a used one again if none are being repaired? Please try to get this one repaired (either by yourself, or give it to someone who will) so that we can keep the supply of FW900s and the size of their researching/tweaking user base large. It's better for everyone.

seconded.

one way to jack your monitor good is to run it out of spec.

Out of spec can also mean low resolution and refresh.

A multi sync monitor actually has multiple circuits tuned for the resolutions it supports.
You want to run your horizontal and vertical scan frequency at the exact frequency it was tuned to in order to minimize heat generation and wear.

I'd recommend using the EXACT timings in the service manual. I have the timings converted into pixel clock mode lines if anyone wants them.

 

[Sony Windas]

I would give up my 24 inch LCD and buy one of these, but I've had the worst nightmare going after good CRT monitors...

I would buy one new for $600

But I can only buy them used and refurbed (correct?) and they all seem to cost at least $700

So I guess I missed the ball on this one.

Of course the LCD was about $400, not quite...but then all the dead CRT's I've gotten off of eBay, and all the crappy blurry CRT's I've gotten...totals well over $1000

I just can't get any luck.

My 17 inch NEC monitor died in 2004, and I've been on this quest for a good monitor ever since.
My income is really scarce, and with it's increases I've been able to spend more money at one time...and that's why I couldn't have bought this monitor when it was brand new on the market, because in 2004, I made $3000 a year.
Bad.

Seven CRT's later, and a 21 inch CRT I finally got, and was happy with, I get the Geforce 8600GTS 512, and find that nVidia has disabled image sharpening.
Suddenly my monitor is a super blurry piece of crap again.

So I give up on CRT, bite the bullet, and get a $350 24 inch LCD.
Not having researched them here, thinking I knew what I needed to based on the specs.
It turned out to be a TN panel.
Viewing angle was so bad, even sitting directly in front of me, staring into the exact middle of the screen, the top half was super dark, and bottom half super bright.
Left was purple, right was yellow...if I backed up fifteen feet, the screen looked right.

So I sold it on eBay for a tiny bit less than I paid for it, and now I've ordered the Soyo VA 24 inch panel.
It comes tomorrow...and if it's a POS too...man I just don't know what to do.

I have no luck with monitors.

Do you think a refurbished one of these would have the sharpness it originally is supposed to have?
Image sharpness is what matters the most to me.
Then response time.

We know LCD really loses on response time, no matter what...but if the CRT is losing on image sharpness, I'm not going to put the money into it.
I won't be able to ship the monitor somewhere if I find I hate it's lack of sharpness...

Sorry if this post dragged on, but this monitor makes me want to eat my heart out.
I wish I had one. : (

If you really want sharpness, as by what I think you mean by it. LCD is the way to go. I've detailed the reasons above.

Hold on there Bobalou... I'm still pissed at what Sony did with their monitors in the 2000 -2002 time frame with Bad EPROMS and their software in the monitor. There are service bulletins out there about these monitors and that they need boards replaced to rectify this problem. I found out here how to "maintain" my monitor. I will have to tune it periodically with a hardware hack. My attitude of being pissed off about a series of Trinitrons with defective firmware is unchanged. Especially after I paid retail for the monitor in 2001 and had to park it for 4 years till I found this forum because it was unusable.

But, you are right, I am "happier" than when I came in. A little...

Les

Why do you think this was bad software or EEPROMS in the monitor? If the EEPROMS were getting corrupted, all sorts of values would drift. Neither would the brightness creep up gradually, a bit flip would have an instant, possibly drastic, effect, and not necessarily brighter.

David Wolff, or Mr. Emusicraft, or Xweebie (however you may know him) believes that there is no way that a problem as wide spread as the brightness issue could have been component failure.

You have to consider, that even if you adjust the G2, the warmup of a monitor in an advanced stage of the brightness issue will still be very bright and may even have retrace lines visible.

The replacement MPU is said to take measures for CRT drift.

Here's my theory.
There is a circuit that compensates for tube warm up. It's described in the chasis training manuals.

I think the problem was because Sony didn't properly test this circuit. There's probably no way they waited 10,000 hours or so for each test of aging and warm up compensation. They may have used some way to make the tests quicker that wasn't entirely accurate. Or maybe individual variations in the tubes at manufacture was wider than they expected.

Xweebie has said he's monitored all grid voltages during the warm up period, none of them change. He's said the last thing to test would be HV. Still, he's told me he doesn't think so many flybacks would be going bad.

I'm eager to do my own testing, I have several models in various stages of the brightness issue to test. I'll publish the results when I do.

I only have el cheapo multi meters at the moment. I've been in the market for some better test equipment and leads. It's been the only thing holding me up.

I got the chance to pick up a W900 version of this monitor for 100 bucks. Is it an older precursor to the FW900? It has a Manufacture date of 2001.

No scratches or anything, but I'm running into a few issues that I was hoping you experts could help me out with.

1) At higher resolutions (larger than 1024x768, etc), I am getting a shaky/vibrating picture. I have tried using different A/C power cords with the same result.

2) When there is a lot of white on the screen I notice a hum, is this normal?

3) The difference between the focus across the screen is very vast. Text that is in focus in the center can be totally unreadable at the edges. I've tried adjusting the convergance controls but to no avail. Is this a case to pick up a WINDAS cable?

Thanks for your help in advance.

I've had a shaky picture from my video card at very high video bandwidths. I've narrowed it down to the computer's signal. Use a high CPU usage program like CPUburn, it should hold the shaking steadier. My shaking was co related to the CPU usage, hardrive usage, and wifi radio usage. It may be a bad video card or a bad power supply. Not sure yet. Definitely not the monitor, though maybe a cable could filter this? I'm using the stock cable that came with the FW900 new in the box. It appears to have the ferrite chokes on both ends.

You can completely eliminate hum. Monitors are silent and have no moving parts.

Hum in electronics comes from vibrating inductors. Actually, transformer hum can be hard to get rid of.

However, in a CRT, the hum that varies with patterns on the screen is likely from the horizontal or vertical deflection coils. Some have suggested Popsicle sticks to hold them steady, or a drop of some glue to keep it from moving.

My Sony is dying. sniff sniff. I have had it for a year and for the price I paid it was worth it but it'll be gone soon. Is there anyone who knows of a replacement monitor that is NEW that can do what this one does or at least come close?

No new CRT is even close. As I've detailed above, manufacturing steps are skipped in CRTs today, as most of them are now aimed towards the low end, and the CRT needs higher profit margins to compete with LCD.

What do you mean by dieing anyway? The worst that can happen is the tube gets dim, or so many expensive parts get fried (unlikely) that it isn't worth replacing, as you have a dim tube.

Too many people are trashing these monitors because of completely fixable grid arcing. With grid arcing, there is usually 0 cost in replacement parts.

LCD is not all that bad outside of TN. There are still a lot of used CRTs out there, but I'd rather go with used IPS panels as at least you know you aren't getting a worn out tube. These are even worse than TN for smearing though, theoretically 8ms is more than enough for 85Hz, but people on this thread keep complaining.

It's called phosphor trailing, and there's no solution to it.

I've noticed phosphor trailing is MUCH worse on lower end CRTs. They do not have a color filter inside the tube, nor an anti-reflective contrast coating so the dimming after glow is noticeable for longer.

If you put even darker tinted glass in front of the screen, and you don't mind wearing out your tube on high contrast settings, afterglow will only be bright enough to make it through the filter for a much shorter amount of time.

You really notice it when you do 3d Stereo. It's un-bearable on a tube without low transmittance anti-reflective contrast coating.

I would not recommend you to buy cables from other places because of the pin order and also

1.) Wolff will pass you the WinDas software
2.) the cable is very well made and has been tested by many users here

just send me a pm and I will forward you his website (im not allowed to post links here) and also the online tutorial in case you do not know!

Mike

Wolff has a very nice DB-9 cable with LEDs for Power, TX, RX, and reverse polarity protection. It was and still is rather expensive, but it comes with his support and expertise. He designed and had it manufactured himself, thus the expense.

The Windas software, in complete form without need for installation is available from multiple locations, listed in this very thread.

There is a ready made cable that will plug into your USB port and show up as a com port to windows. It's cheaper too, so I'd recommend that.

It turns out the Max232 is not needed. The signals only have to be inverted, voltages can be kept at TTL levels.

So this cable has become even more trivial.

I'll admit I was a little irritated when I discovered that $7 bucks shipped components, and a little hacking around with windas, meant I could save $50 for a cable, and $10 for each adjustment after that (and no other adjustments besides G2).Now that everyone knows about windas though, I have to say LEDs can be useful when troubleshooting.

Given that acureateIT and the rest of the 'refurb' bunch use windas, at $10 an adjustment, I wonder just how much cash Wolff could have made.

I think it's more likely they wouldn't have dealt with emailing .dat files back and forth for each monitor, leaving the really bright FW900s to the glass recyclers. Before any of this, back in 03 I'd talked to a guy who had pallets full of Sonys. He was just going to toss the 'bleached out' ones ,$3 a pound or something.

i measuer my black levels with a colormeter. you monitor may be wearing out? IDK.....
contrast is at 91 and brightness is set to 29. that gives me pitch black black levels, like out in the forest with no moon kind of black with no backlilght bleed.
did you try resetting the monitor by holding in the reset button for a few seconds?

dont manually set the RGB colors, leave them at default (after resetting the monitor), everything at 50% color and dont increase the gain on them.
Once you reset them, dont touch them.

installing the drivers helps as your video card will use the color profile within the driver.

hope this helps

I'm sorry to be so abrasive, but this is totally bogus advice! The manual RGB colors is there for you adjust with a colorimeter. You adjust the hardware to be a perfect as you can get it, then you use the video card's LUT.

You can adjust the LUT curves in the video card to calibrate your display, but the moment you hook it up to another card, it looks horrible again.

The best thing to do, is to redo the white balance procedure in windas, the whole thing. The LUT should only be changed after this, ideally, not at all.

This would be like using the video card settings to 'fix' the brightness problem. Would you suggest to leave the G2 at 127 or whatever?

Some people think the default brightness is at 50. It's infarct 20 something.

Actually, the best thing to do would be to reset everything back to the .dat it had when it was new out of the box. Then, check the hardware for any problems that may cause a gross color error, and fix them. Then use windas, which happens to adjust RGB gains/cutoffs. Then hopefully you won't need to change your videocard's LUT at all.

I'd love to hear your reasoning if you think that I'm the one who has it backwards. (Maybe I do?)

what i do know is that if you override the refresh rates on any monitor, it shortens the life of the monitor pretty good, and since the last of these monitors were made in '03, I'd make it last as long as possible because the chances of getting another one are pretty slim without paying a pretty penny.
Thats just me though

these monitors are used by ILM, LucasArts and Pixar, so these are pretty much the best CRT's made.
I have personally not seen a better picture on any monitor better than these.
If you can get a hold of a hardware calibrator, this monitor shines in a big way.

Also, too low of a refresh rate, or a non standard resolution, or different front porch/ back porch blanking times can cause problems.

There are several circuits that handle several resolutions each, you want to use the resolution it is tuned to, not the other resolutions that it may be 'close enough' to.

Use the exact timings in the service manual for best results.

What was bad with their eproms?

And i assume you used winDAS to keep your monitor in good health?

I have to periodically use winDAS on both my trinitron tubes. G420S and FW900. Both were made in 2002. With winDAS i have to keep on lowering the G2 value, and increase the contrast to keep the blacks black, and the colors vibrant, on both monitors. I hope there won't come a time when there is diminishing returns.

I don't think anything was bad with their EEPROMS either, as I explained above.

You've been routinely increasing the contrast all this time? I'm curious how your focus/spot size is with the contrast turned down, compared to the contrast at max?

There are already diminishing returns in increasing contrast. The eye is more sensitive to changes in the dimmer range of light intensity. You need so many more times the previous level of light in order to perceive a difference. The graph of log() gives a good picture of the diminishing returns. If your pupil size, or rod bleaching start to play a role I can't imagine you'd be picking out all the darker detail. (Arguably, it is more realistic)

Using out of spec refresh rates(lower or higher) or resolutions does nothing, or it breaks a part of the monitor all at once. A part you can replace.

Using really high contrast levels, such as those that require changing the ABL settings, burns away your a tube's cathodes and phosphors, a tube you can never replace.

Ironically, I've seen the former precaution has been stressed more than the latter on this thread.

While the proportional increases in beam current produce proportional phosphor wear, it takes exponential increases in beam current to produce linear changes in perceived brightness.

That seemingly small sacrifice in contrast goes a long way in prolonging the tubes life.

I use high contrast settings sparingly,(Normally, 50-60 (un-tweaked), even lower depending on the tubes phosphor and cathode efficiency). This also allows for a sharper spot size, and more distinct perception of gray scale steps in a dark room. Ofcourse, if you have an LCD on the side, use that whenever possible, save the CRT for when it counts. Using a CRT when working with bright lights, papers, books is not worth the extra wear on the tube.

Oh, and leaving your CRT on 24/7, even with a 'black' screen (Is it really completely black?), still accelerates tube aging. It's been known to accelerate the brightness problem, and make the warm up phase even worse. G2 would have be down to 0 in compensation in less than 2 years.
Remember, you're keeping your cathodes heated to maximize thermionic emission, this can't be a safe state to leave them in when you're not even using them.
The thing is still oscillating current thorough the deflection coils, the FBT is still sucking at high voltages. Does the acronym MTB ring a bell?

Not to mention the fire hazard when you're at work Slim chance, but a fat risk.

 

[Sony Windas]

Have anyone tried to rotate this massive monitor to portrait aspect? Do you think it will break the case and bezel if I did? Maybe cushioning it with something may help. I would love to have in portrait mode for photo editing.

Infact I have, while it's running.

Because you change it's orientation with the earth's magnetic field, you get purity errors. (It does auto correct for N/S hemisphere, but it still had purity error when put face up and in portrait).Other than that, it works.

About the case and bezel, I'd imagine it could withstand it. Does the shipping container say 'this side up?'. I've had one face up for some time and it still works.

 

[Sony Windas]

This page has some really nice tests to determine whether your contrast and brightness are set correctly. It's focus is on LCDs though. I'd always been so preoccupied with black level and 000 111 222 RGB values that I hadn't seriously tested 255,255,255 and 254,254,254.. turns out high brightness and contrast settings ruin the distinction in that upper range. At least on my screen.
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php
I wonder how removing the anti glare coating affects this. Maybe wearing sun glasses can simulate the effect.

 

[Aelfgeft]

Anyone have any leads on where to acquire one of these for a reasonable price? So far all I see are on EBay, and they all seem to be pickup only.

 

[sprak74]

Anyone have any leads on where to acquire one of these for a reasonable price? So far all I see are on EBay, and they all seem to be pickup only.

A year ago they were selling them like crazy for about $300-$400 shipped on ebay, but now it's slowed down and if there were any it was just too pricey and like you say it for pickup only. I'm just glad I got two of these.

 

[Toompra]

Anyone got better connections with a school or work lab? I don't actually have my own spectrophotometer, and I still need to inquire about access to one at my school.The best I can do on my own is measure with a 4 filter colorimeter the light from a P22 monitor without any coating, and measure it again through the coating sample.

Just wanted to follow up on this, I was talking with my dad yesterday (who just happens to be a forensic scientist) about the AG coating. Turns out until recently he was teaching at an IT college and was working with a spectrophotometer. Wish I would have known that when I took the coating off my G520, I could have easily got him to analyze it for me. Unfortunetly he quit that job a couple weeks ago and no longer has access to their equipment.

Anyway he isn't sure it would really help that much. He said spectrophotometers are good for identifying 1 or maybe 2 substances but anything beyond that is unrecognizeable, and theres no way to find out the amounts that were used. He went into much more detail than that but I'm sorry my short term memory is absolute shite. If you want better specifics let me know exactly what you want me to ask him and I can probably get him to type out a detailed answer for you.

PS - I would like to get your input on a problem I have with my FW900. It seems the geometry is not "sticking". When I turn it on and after the warm up period is done it never exhibits the same geometry settings that were set before I turned the monitor off. I usually end up only having to re-adjust the vertical or horizontal settings, which isn't that big a deal but sometimes it also changes rotation, key and pincushion, which are a bit more annoying to correct. This also happens when I switch resolutions, although not every time.

Does this mean the deflection is going bad or something? The guy I bought the monitor from did have it on all the time so I'm sure there is wear on some components. I did have to reduce the G2 from 145 to 135 to fix up the brightness but the focus is perfect and there is no signs of blooming at 100 contrast, even after upping the drive_max to 255. Which I didn't really need to do but I like contrast.

So I think the tube itself is still ok, I hope that means this geometry drift is a fixeable issue. Any light you can shed would be great.

 

[raphash]

Hey Foe_Hammer!!! I hope you read this!

I have done everything from adjusting to G2 value down a bit as well as Drive_Max to 255. However, I have been TRYING to adjust the C_MAX_B_MAX value to no avail. It defaults to 107 and after I change it to a higher value such as the one you went with 151, it does indeed increase my brightness quite substantially. However, after turning off my monitor and turning it back on it reverts back to the original 107 value for C_MAX_B_MAX. Any ideas on how to get a higher value to stick? Thanks bro!

P.S. After getting my WinDAS cable and the software finally working, WAHOO! My image quality has shot straight up! I just would LOVE to get even MORE contrast out of this bad boy... but if I can't, no biggie... what I have now is gorgeous!

 

[raphash]

Hey there Sony_WinDAS! If you are in fact the originator of the WinDAS revolution, I just want to thank you for your part! Once you get it working, it's really fantastic to see the changes made to a screen and the fact that you can make these screens like new again!

Anyhow, I was gonna ask you, would you happen to have a link to the WinDAS cable you mentioned that you can get as USB? My new computer doesn't have a serial port on it so it is a pain in the butt cause I have to hook up my old computer just to make adjustments to my FW900's.

Thanks again!

Raphash

 

[Toompra]

Hey Foe_Hammer!!! I hope you read this!

I have done everything from adjusting to G2 value down a bit as well as Drive_Max to 255. However, I have been TRYING to adjust the C_MAX_B_MAX value to no avail. It defaults to 107 and after I change it to a higher value such as the one you went with 151, it does indeed increase my brightness quite substantially. However, after turning off my monitor and turning it back on it reverts back to the original 107 value for C_MAX_B_MAX. Any ideas on how to get a higher value to stick? Thanks bro!

P.S. After getting my WinDAS cable and the software finally working, WAHOO! My image quality has shot straight up! I just would LOVE to get even MORE contrast out of this bad boy... but if I can't, no biggie... what I have now is gorgeous!

I have fiddled around with that setting on a different monitor, the reason it isn't sticking is because each color temp has it's own seperate C_MAX_B_MAX value, which is the one you want to change, not the global one. I don't have Windas running right now so I can't tell you exactly where it is in the .dat but if memory serves me correct there should be 3 color categories, I think 1 is 5000k, 2 is 6500k and 3 is 9300k. Once you find the right place it should be pretty easy to tell which value is for C_MAX_B_MAX, since it will be exactly the same or close to the global value.

 

[Toompra]

Anyhow, I was gonna ask you, would you happen to have a link to the WinDAS cable you mentioned that you can get as USB? My new computer doesn't have a serial port on it so it is a pain in the butt cause I have to hook up my old computer just to make adjustments to my FW900's.

Thanks again!

Raphash

You need to buy a usb to serial adapter/cable, such as this one. http://tinyurl.com/6ywl4x

But whatever you do don't buy this one. http://tinyurl.com/662jeh

I've had nothing but problems with that cable, the driver is a peice of crap and will crash your whole computer to a blue screen with an error message saying there were too many usb reports or something. That actually happened while I was flashing my FW900, scared the crap outta me but thankfully I was able to revive it.

 

[glenbjackson19]

where can you find the sony EPROM defaults for this monitor???
wouldnt i be able to compare the one on my monitor to the defaults to see how much they were jacked up make it look new????

 

[glenbjackson19]

I found these too!!!!
http://www.ablserv.com/files/Das/
http://www.ablserv.com/files/windas/

 

[gr1Mo]

Has any one purchased the HD fury for this thing? If so, hows the quality of it? For $140 im considering about getting it.

 

[raphash]

I guess I am sort of confused... there is only 1 value in the .dat file that shows C_MAX_B_MAX... can you be more specific please?

 

[Aelfgeft]

Speak of the DEVIL!

I just yesterday found someone selling one of these for the first time EVER in my area...

...if you hold grudges don't keep reading...

...for $100!

I have just now spent the last hour playing with the resolutions and refresh rates. This thing, outside of some gummy stuff on the bezel, is damn near immaculate. There is a ever-so-slight bit of white diminish, but it's easily adjusted through the temperature settings.

I tried installing the newer driver, but XP just errored out on it for some reason. I went back to the native XP one (which still recognized it) and found that 1600x1200 perfectly centered gets about the perfect desktop res I want. I won't have time to game tonight, but this thing will get plenty of practice once I finish my C2D/8800GT build. I truly have been blessed this day.

 

[Toompra]

I guess I am sort of confused... there is only 1 value in the .dat file that shows C_MAX_B_MAX... can you be more specific please?

Yeah thats the thing, the one you want to change does not have a name, it's just a number. Sorry this isn't very easy to describe without Windas in front of me. I guess the best way is by telling you how I discovered it in the first place.

I was looking over all the .dat settings in Windas and while skimming through the numbers under the first color temp category I noticed one of them was the same number as my C_MAX_B_MAX value, then I looked at the next number and saw that it was also the same number as C_MAX_B_CENT, which is the setting that comes after C_MAX_B_MAX. I knew right then those 2 color temp numbers had to be in relation to to the C_MAX settings.. So then I looked under the color temp 2 and 3 categories and saw that the corresponding numbers were slightly different, but again I knew they had to be related since they were so close. It then became obvious to me that each color temp must run off its own seperate contrast settings.

So since I use 9300k which is the 3rd color temp in the OSD menu I figured if I changed the number under color temp 3 in the .dat file it would be the right one. And indeed it was, I honestly didn't think it would stick but to my suprise it did.

I hope thats a bit more helpful. If I had Windas going I could tell you exactly which ones to change but as I said above I'm having issues with my serial to usb cable, I just ordered a new one but it won't be here for a week or 2. I do have a serial port on my comp but without the usb cable it won't reach to the monitor.

 

[Toompra]

where can you find the sony EPROM defaults for this monitor???
wouldnt i be able to compare the one on my monitor to the defaults to see how much they were jacked up make it look new????

I don't think thats possible since each monitor was individually tuned at the factory. Threy all have different defaults. What is your G2 value at? Most Trinitrons I've seen have it around 140-150 by default, so if yours is significantly lower than that it probably means it was changed.

 

[Sony Windas]

Just wanted to follow up on this, I was talking with my dad yesterday (who just happens to be a forensic scientist) about the AG coating. Turns out until recently he was teaching at an IT college and was working with a spectrophotometer. Wish I would have known that when I took the coating off my G520, I could have easily got him to analyze it for me. Unfortunetly he quit that job a couple weeks ago and no longer has access to their equipment.

Darn. If only I'd spoken earlier. I'd been trying to find the ideal remedy for anti glare blemishes for months, I just hadn't been posting about it.

Anyway he isn't sure it would really help that much. He said spectrophotometers are good for identifying 1 or maybe 2 substances but anything beyond that is unrecognizeable, and theres no way to find out the amounts that were used. He went into much more detail than that but I'm sorry my short term memory is absolute shite. If you want better specifics let me know exactly what you want me to ask him and I can probably get him to type out a detailed answer for you.

I had wanted to see how the coating absorbed light across the visible spectrum, especially near the phosphor emission peaks. A spectrophotometer can do this, right? Is there something that can?

(I may be thinking of the wrong instrument, I've seen a 'colorimeter' (not the tristimulus kind for displays) used in chemistry labs for testing absorption of certain frequencies.)

If it absorbed all more or less equally, it'd be case closed. Useless coating except for reducing ambient light twice (second time it's reflected), and phosphor emitted light once.

If it did in fact enhance color gamut by absorbing certain frequencies, then I was planning on looking for dyes to mimic it's 'absorption profile'. There are patents which detailed which dyes to use and how to mix them.

Making the same thing again probably be impossible, but at least we'd all know what the original coating was doing.

PS - I would like to get your input on a problem I have with my FW900. It seems the geometry is not "sticking". When I turn it on and after the warm up period is done it never exhibits the same geometry settings that were set before I turned the monitor off. I usually end up only having to re-adjust the vertical or horizontal settings, which isn't that big a deal but sometimes it also changes rotation, key and pincushion, which are a bit more annoying to correct. This also happens when I switch resolutions, although not every time.

Does this mean the deflection is going bad or something? The guy I bought the monitor from did have it on all the time so I'm sure there is wear on some components. I did have to reduce the G2 from 145 to 135 to fix up the brightness but the focus is perfect and there is no signs of blooming at 100 contrast, even after upping the drive_max to 255. Which I didn't really need to do but I like contrast.

That'd be my guess too. I don't have a scope(yet), and haven't looked at the schematics in a while, so I wouldn't know what to look for specifically. I'd hope it's discrete components (electrolytic caps? Anything else that changes spec?) changing spec, and not anything to do with ICs. I'll look at the schematics later tonight, you should too, as your guess is probably going to be as good as mine.

So I think the tube itself is still ok, I hope that means this geometry drift is a fixeable issue. Any light you can shed would be great.

I'd think anything outside the tube is a fixable issue. At the extreme of this, you could probably go without ICs. Even CRT rebuilding can't help you with worn phosphor.

Then, if you replace the horizontal deflection coil, you can make an extremely bright TV. I've seen a guy do this with some junk color TV, the thing was shimmering. He used it as a scope that moved with music. I'll search for it and post it later.

I mentioned this as something I thought of that would link extreme contrast to deflection/geometry. I don't really know though. I never precisely understood reactive scanning. (That's why they call it fly back transformer, because the collapse of the field in the horizontal scanning coil when the beam 'flies back' to the left of the screen is what drives it.)

Sorry if that's all inaccurate rubbish. It's just an idea you could pursue.

Hey there Sony_WinDAS! If you are in fact the originator of the WinDAS revolution, I just want to thank you for your part! Once you get it working, it's really fantastic to see the changes made to a screen and the fact that you can make these screens like new again!

Anyhow, I was gonna ask you, would you happen to have a link to the WinDAS cable you mentioned that you can get as USB? My new computer doesn't have a serial port on it so it is a pain in the butt cause I have to hook up my old computer just to make adjustments to my FW900's.

Thanks again!

Raphash

Oops, the USB cable was mentioned on the Icrontic thread. I put it in my new Windas site that I never launched. I'll dig it up later tonight. Sorry. Oh, and I'm glad you're having fun with WinDAS!

where can you find the sony EPROM defaults for this monitor???
wouldnt i be able to compare the one on my monitor to the defaults to see how much they were jacked up make it look new????

I wish I knew. As Toompra said, the defaults are different for each monitor, but I imagine there are initial settings like the G2 that shouldn't vary wildly unless there were different hardware revisions.

I found these too!!!!
http://www.ablserv.com/files/Das/
http://www.ablserv.com/files/windas/

Yeah, these have been around a long time. I archived the entire DAS and Windas directories just in case it even goes down. They are now high on the google result for windas because I link to them from my howto.

I don't think thats possible since each monitor was individually tuned at the factory. Threy all have different defaults. What is your G2 value at? Most Trinitrons I've seen have it around 140-150 by default, so if yours is significantly lower than that it probably means it was changed.

Exactly what I was thinking. I originally had a bunch of people posting original G2 values over at the Icrontic thread, before my post requesting this got buried.

Ok, so. I'll be back here later tonight. Thanks, and everybody take care!

 

[Sony Windas]

http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/EvaluationKits/FT232RModules.htm

IanM found this one. It's about the same price as the cheaper serial only options. It's a part of the howto I haven't published yet.I meant to find other variations of this type of cable, but haven't had much success yet.

I had forgotten how much nicer the new windas howto is. I'm holding off publishing it because I didn't complete the stuff on CRT basics. It will look entirely different, very simplified, better organized. Since I get alot of visitors who don't speak English, I'm trying to make the speech I use as simple as possible. The impression many are getting is that it's complicated, when infact, it's not much more complex than using a pocket organizer.

I don't think I'm ever going to reverse the DAS program further to uncover the protocol. Most people, and more importantly, Sony, seem to be just fine using the buggy WinDAS software. Sony's not bothered me, Emusicraft, or Ableserv. The newer windas versions will have compatibility with more LCDs, I imagine Sony would get more agitated if that were floating around the net.

It would be nice to have it legal and without bugs. Not to mention, the signal generating computer could also be the adjustment computer. Some one else wanted to do it, but they assumed I would have the protocol to give them. I didn't.

Well, I've rambled enough about that. I'll straighten out the howto, and my understanding of the deflection circuitry some more tomorrow.

 

[vidguy]

Just thought I'd point out this guy has 2 HPs left:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170202936099&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=007

I bought one from him, I've had it a week so far and had it shipped up to Toronto.
(I don't recomend having it shipped, as it cost almost twice the value of the monitor)

In my case, I returned a 24" LCD that cost me more than this, so it was worth it for me.

Anyways, my bezel is damaged, marks ect..
However, physicaly the screen is perfect, no chips, scratches, gouges in either the glass or anti-glare coat.

The monitor itself is performing well. good contrast, brightness under control, no real colour purity issues that I can see.

Both the PC and XBOX360 look great on it.

I performed a focus adjustment, convergence is very good, however there is some dynamic convergence tweaking still nessesary for "perfection"

In the end, I paid about $400.00.. I got a monitor for less than the LCD I returned, and it performs alot better.

If I was close, I would buy the other two myself with no hesitation.

You haven't lived until you've played Test Drive Unlimited at 1920X1200@85hz on a Dual Xfire X1950Pro 512mb setup. FPS always over 30, no tearing and on this monitor...just magic.

 

[rekabffej]

I use the HDfury with my fw900 with my PS3 and it works very well. It essentially looks the same as if you were using HDMI. I do not have the power cord for the HDfury, and I would be very interested to know if this makes any noticeable difference in image quality (I don't see how it could get much better). Also, I would recommend getting the non-gamer version so that you have the option of using either VGA or BNC and have the option of adding a power cord. I bought mine from NCIXUS with no problems for only $110, but they now list it as no longer available. Good luck, and let me know how it works out.

Edit: Just found out that monoprice sells the hdfury for $115 and they have all three standard versions in stock...if anyone knows where you can get a US power adapter for a reasonable price, let me know : )

 

[zerohaste]

I use an HDFury with the FW900 as well, and I can honestly say the power cable doesn't make a difference in terms of image quality, at least not one that I can see. I have it connected through VGA using a 6ft HDMI cable that came with the HDFury.

 

[Sony Windas]

I found these too!!!!
http://www.ablserv.com/files/Das/
http://www.ablserv.com/files/windas/

You're absolutely right if you mean that even if no one else used windas, you could have easily just found them yourself. It's well known anything with TX/RX is probably serial, and the hint to invert it came from the Dos DAS package on eservice.info. Getting past dongle protection was trivial,and there was also a way to use monitor information from the various versions of the Dos DAS that was in parallax DB format.

If you have colorimeter, help yourself to the copy of winCats. It's just like the software you normally use with the colorimeter, except it adjusts the monitors gains and biases directly through the service port, rather than adjusting the video cards LUT. Because of that, you don't need to re calibrate when you use a different computer, or use a different monitor on the calibrated computer.

It's exactly like having the hardware calibrating Sony artisan puck.
Speaking of which, does anyone know how long color filters last on a colorimeter? I've heard that with the original spyder, the red filter would change properties and throw off the calibration. It's got a bad reputation now.

Now, some one needs to get a job at a service center, get a copy of the new DAS and other service programs like that for Viewsonic, NEC, (Allready got a copy of spectraview, but there's probably one that does geometry too for the NEC monitors), etc. and post it some where.

Imagine being able to adjust LCD parameters.

 

[mathesar]

A bit of a random post here, I recently purchased a 50" Kuro plasma and thought it would be interesting to see it next to my FW900 CRT (Size wise) In the pic I was using a VGA cable on the Plasma but I recently replaced it with a DVI to HDMI cable which sharpened up the PC output noticabley.

Ill have to take a better pic I was a bit lazy here (the game is Alice for PC):

 

[Rock&Roll]

Wow. Very nice. This thread was in dire need of some pics. The colors look different between the two. But, you would probably need to take a shot of each one separately in the dark to really tell. The light from one could effect how your camera picks up the other. Size wise, wow, no comparison.

 

[gr1Mo]

Plasma's are obviously better than crt's now adays. Come on guys, really. I'll have to post my panasonic .

 

[Sony Windas]

A bit of a random post here, I recently purchased a 50" Kuro plasma and thought it would be interesting to see it next to my FW900 CRT (Size wise) In the pic I was using a VGA cable on the Plasma but I recently replaced it with a DVI to HDMI cable which sharpened up the PC output noticabley.

Ill have to take a better pic I was a bit lazy here (the game is Alice for PC):

The circuitry that corrects the gamma curve while scanning the rows of picture elements in plasmas and LCDs is probably digital, isn't it? If it were, I'd guess when you used the VGA cable it has to sample it through a DAC, with those familiar clock and phase adjustments. Bypassing such a DAC with digital input might explain the sharpness(you mean like, edges of pixels were less blurred?) improvement.

Depending on the length and quality of the VGA cable, signal attenuation could also mess up the gray scale. The logum LCD guy said that when the video feed line was lengthened through several splitters, the display lost the top five steps of the 255 step gray scale.

What's the refresh rate on a plasma?

Wow. Very nice. This thread was in dire need of some pics. The colors look different between the two. But, you would probably need to take a shot of each one separately in the dark to really tell. The light from one could effect how your camera picks up the other. Size wise, wow, no comparison.

Yeah, the plasma is so much brighter that you have to choose between underexposing one, or over exposing another. What's the dynamic range of a CCD?

If the pictures were separate though, the CRT might look just as bright as the plasma, as the camera would automatically adjust to fit either. Camera's often have auto white balance adjustment that can change the colors between different shots based on the lighting.

Maybe if everything was manually set, separate pictures would give some idea of how the color differs.

Plasma's are obviously better than crt's now adays. Come on guys, really. I'll have to post my panasonic .

Just how much better?
Plasma wins hands down for brightness, but since they use phosphor technology, aging might be a factor.
Then there's contrast ratio. Neither can do perfect black while there's significant amounts of brightness in other areas.
Or can the plasma do it? If it could, what does it leave SED/FED to strive for?
The CRT suffers some brightness halation, most of it seems reflection off the inside surface of the glass face of the tube.

Dot pitch and size determine how much field of view the display takes up. This may not be such a disadvantage for the FW900 as the picture makes it seem.

I'm having trouble finding the gamut of the FW900, what's the gamut of the plasma? (And if you have that, you probably can share the black level, peak brightness, etc.)

In any case, given used Fw900s are pretty expensive, rare, and a crap shoot in terms of condition, a big plasma probably is the better value, especially when more than one person is watching the screen.

 

[vidguy]

Plasmas still suffer from "Phosphor Lag".
Granted, only a small percentage of us notice it, but for those of us that do.. it's as bothersome as motion blur on LCD, or "Rainbows" on DLP.

I went through all the HDTV tech, first plasma, than 2 LCDs, than Sony SXRD..

In the end, none were suitable for gamming for me. LCD's had blur, Plasma had the "Green/Yellow Flashes" on high contrast/fast movement...(Rainbow 6 Vegas for games, Sin City for movies, as extreme examples. The one I liked the best, was the Sony SXRD, however the grain of the screen made me feel like I was watching through sand.

In the end, all I really cared about were games, as SDTV looked terrible on all these sets..

DVDs looked pretty good, but I don't watch enough movies to justify $3000 sets..(I bought top of each line,, or near to)

So for TV, I bought a used 36" Grand Wega CRT, and the HP 24" CRT for Comp/Gamming.

I learned something.. bigger isn't better.. I've owned so many sets, I've been able to play my 360 and PC on all of them, the smallest being 46".. the Largest- 65" (SXRD)..

You know what, I'm getting the most satisfaction out of this 24" HP.....

Maybe in another 2 years I'll try HDTV again...

 

[les_garten]

Yeah, I was thinking it's probably not worth that much. I have a decent 19" Viewsonic CRT which is the best CRT I was able to find that was new, but I was hoping to get something widescreen. CRTs have virtually disappeared in the UK (at least where I am) even a lot of the supermarkets have dropped their really cheap sets in favour of LCDs, and there were never any HD CRT TVs.

Never say never. I don't remember the manufacturer, but there were HD CRT TV's. You would only see them at high end stereo shops. I believe they were 32" and 16:9, and Expensive!

 

[mathesar]

The circuitry that corrects the gamma curve while scanning the rows of picture elements in plasmas and LCDs is probably digital, isn't it? If it were, I'd guess when you used the VGA cable it has to sample it through a DAC, with those familiar clock and phase adjustments. Bypassing such a DAC with digital input might explain the sharpness(you mean like, edges of pixels were less blurred?) improvement.

Ya I believe it was mainly the whole DAC process causing a slightly softer picture, it still looked great with VGA but I noticed it was a 'crisper' image with HDMI, also the Plasma has Phase adjustments over VGA but I never tried manually adjusting it (I left it on Auto).

Plasma wins hands down for brightness, but since they use phosphor technology, aging might be a factor.
Then there's contrast ratio. Neither can do perfect black while there's significant amounts of brightness in other areas.
Or can the plasma do it? If it could, what does it leave SED/FED to strive for?

Plasmas in general have deeper blacks than LCD's (LCD's main enemy is having a backlight) but the current Kuro plasma models have the best blacks compared to any other Plasma or non-CRT tv on the market, I was very surprised how deep the blacks are even when comparing it to my Sony 34XBR960 CRT HDTV in a dark room. My previous 07 model Panasonic plasma didnt even come close to the Kuro.

Im not sure whats left for SED especially with Pioneer getting ready to release the 9th gen Kuro models soon, they're claiming an even brighter picture and the ability to achieve absolute black.

I have Wii / 360 / PS3 hooked up to the Plasma and they all look beautiful, having a larger screen certainly adds to the experiance as well.

Some more random pics ive taken are located here.