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24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.
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mathesar
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haste
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yep, the best one ever made...Owskie said:
discontinued now though. used ones seem to be everywhere though.
when sony was still making them i think the msrp was like $2400 or something crazy like that.
Hi all, I'm a new-registered user that found this community using the google tool on Sony GDM-FW900 topic.
I have to say that yours is by far the best analysis on this monitor that I've been able to find on the net.
Finally, after months used carefully thinking about my future choice and then gathering the necessary funds, I bought a Sony GDM-FW900 that will ship 8th January to my location(they're on vacation now, sadly).
I'm stating it now, I bought this monitor mostly for Xbox360 gaming. I love CRTs(I have a great LGF900P now)and this is the only widescreen out; the good thing is that the GDM-FW900 also happens to be, simply, the best monitor picture-quality wise.
I have read your various posts about this specific topic and would like to thank FoeHammer for his basic guide to get the best out of the monitor; however, I have still a few questions.
FoeHammer, I wasn't able to try the component cable but I have the standard one that comes with the premium console and colors are much more rich and vibrant than with VGA. Is component any better than the RGB apart from definition?And how does the VGA with this monitor and your settings compare to both?
Also I have a generic question regarding the 1080p issue: does the image display with borders, or what?I didn't quite understand....And did the Live Update improve something?
Thanks in advance and, of course, merry Xmas
I have to say that yours is by far the best analysis on this monitor that I've been able to find on the net.
Finally, after months used carefully thinking about my future choice and then gathering the necessary funds, I bought a Sony GDM-FW900 that will ship 8th January to my location(they're on vacation now, sadly).
I'm stating it now, I bought this monitor mostly for Xbox360 gaming. I love CRTs(I have a great LGF900P now)and this is the only widescreen out; the good thing is that the GDM-FW900 also happens to be, simply, the best monitor picture-quality wise.
I have read your various posts about this specific topic and would like to thank FoeHammer for his basic guide to get the best out of the monitor; however, I have still a few questions.
FoeHammer, I wasn't able to try the component cable but I have the standard one that comes with the premium console and colors are much more rich and vibrant than with VGA. Is component any better than the RGB apart from definition?And how does the VGA with this monitor and your settings compare to both?
Also I have a generic question regarding the 1080p issue: does the image display with borders, or what?I didn't quite understand....And did the Live Update improve something?
Thanks in advance and, of course, merry Xmas
Foe-hammer
Limp Gawd
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Nope.XAleX360 said:
Just remember to have all three of your color gains maxed at 100, then your color biases will vary according to you monitor; particularily your green and red, while your blue will be around 70-75.
Foe-hammer said:
I don't get it.
You said
"7) Now go to the Color Bias and turn up the Red to 55, the Green down to 43, and the Blue Color Bias turn it up to 74. This will give the best, rich, most vibrant picture possible."
What does it mean that they vary according to my monitor?Shouldn't I set them manually?
Oh, forget about that RGB question, of course I was trying the component cable that comes with premium 360.
With these settings+the update do you think we pretty much solved the problem?
Foe-hammer
Limp Gawd
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What i meant was apon further testing with other monitors, the color biases will vary according to your monitor. You are going to have to mess with them and see what looks best on your monitor. The color biases number setting that i gave are what looks best on my monitor. Yours will probably be different, but that should be a good starting point for you and you can tweak it from there. Just make sure you have all three color gains maxed out at 100.XAleX360 said:I don't get it.
You said
"7) Now go to the Color Bias and turn up the Red to 55, the Green down to 43, and the Blue Color Bias turn it up to 74. This will give the best, rich, most vibrant picture possible."
What does it mean that they vary according to my monitor?Shouldn't I set them manually?
Oh, forget about that RGB question, of course I was trying the component cable that comes with premium 360.
With these settings+the update do you think we pretty much solved the problem?
Component? The fw900 does not accept component. This is vor RGB. Set them manually? That is the only way to do this; from the monitors onboard OSD. Not quite sure what you are asking?
mathesar
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XAleX360 said:No, I said that I saw component connected to 360(on a TV) and I loved the colors. I asked if VGA on FW900 with proper tweaks and the June update reaches such greatness(obviously packed with VGA's unique definition).
Unfortunately the VGA output on 360 is less colorful and still slightly faded when compared to Component on a TV ..at least this is my experiance when comparing my FW900 vs. Sony XBR960 HDTV.
mathesar said:
Right, but we're talking about lil differences here. I bet the tweaked FW900 after the June update looks astounding in comparison of 99% other LCD and plasma tvs...
What about 1080p, how does it look on this monitor?Did Fall update improve something?
Foe-hammer
Limp Gawd
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Depends. With manually adjusting the color gains and biases on the OSD, and using winDAS to crank the hell out of the contrast, the colors are better, more accurate and more vibrant then what you'll get on any HDTV via component. Not to mention the superior detail that you'll get regardless with vga compared to component.XAleX360 said:No, I said that I saw component connected to 360(on a TV) and I loved the colors. I asked if VGA on FW900 with proper tweaks and the June update reaches such greatness(obviously packed with VGA's unique definition).
Yesterday i manually went through the 'white balance test' via winDAS on my HP fw900 to try and get more contrast out of the monitor (i had previously had the 'DRIVE_MAX' maxed out at 255). Deetox mentioned earlier that if you increased the 'C_MAX_B_MAX' that it would increase the contrast ten fold. I tried this earlier but could not get it to save. So i manually went through the 'white balance test' and forced my monitor to increase its 'C_MAX_B_MAX' from 99 to 255. And let me tell you what a difference it made! 360 games are absolutely beautiful on it. For regular use on a PC, i have to decrease the contrast to 65. Anything over 65 causes 'bloom' on the PC, but with the xbox this is not the case.
Foe-hammer
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I posted these pictures earlier on in this thread. The images are from when i had already manually adjusted the monitors color 'biases' and 'gains', and increased the contrast via winDAS by increaseing the DRIVE_MAX. I have since then recently increased the contrast more by increasing the C_MAX_B_MAX via winDAS.XAleX360 said:Can you post some screens?
Thanks for the support btw. What do you think on 1080p anyway? Does it suck still?
As far as 1080p goes, i do not use it unless i have too (i only use it for watching 1080p HD-DVD's, and use 1280x1024 widescreen for games). The problem is that 1080p is cropped on both sides of the screen no matter how you adjust it. You miss about 1/2" on both sides of the screen; 1" total. Also on the far left side there is a clear 3/16" distortion that runs all the way down the screen, and on the far right side there is a thin white line that runs all the way down. It's not too much of a problem for movies, but for games i hate to lose that many pixels of peripheral vision.
mathesar
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Ive tried manualy adjusting gain / bias ,its still not nearly as vibrant / colorful vs. my XBR960 HDTV (which is also a CRT),I think it has more to do with 360's VGA output rather than it being the FW900's fault. Plus you have to take into consideration the XBR960 is Sony's absolute top of the line CRT HDTV so its not like im comparing it to the average TV,Actually it has the best CRT image ive ever seen minus some minor geometry flaws. The color richness / black levels / contrast are unmatched and the use of sony's super fine pitch crt makes high res look PC monitor quality.
XBR960 specs
Random pics I took from the XBR:
Over the air 1080i channel:
Xbox360 / Kameo @ 1080i:
Xbox360 / Oblivion @ 1080i:
Fight Night 3 @ 1080i , Yea I was really bored this day lol .. I named him Gollum
XBR960 specs
Random pics I took from the XBR:
Over the air 1080i channel:
Xbox360 / Kameo @ 1080i:
Xbox360 / Oblivion @ 1080i:
Fight Night 3 @ 1080i , Yea I was really bored this day lol .. I named him Gollum
I think what the FW900 will give you are the most accurate colors. Not that increased saturation and such aren't pleasing to many people.
This sounds reminiscent of the LCOS review Extreme Tech did a few months back. The JVC pro model was judged the hands down winner, whereas their consumer version was judged oversaturated. (But maybe there's a method to JVC's madness?)
In any case, I suppose the XBR960 can be adjusted to whatever one's taste is.
This sounds reminiscent of the LCOS review Extreme Tech did a few months back. The JVC pro model was judged the hands down winner, whereas their consumer version was judged oversaturated. (But maybe there's a method to JVC's madness?)
In any case, I suppose the XBR960 can be adjusted to whatever one's taste is.
Foe-hammer said:I posted these pictures earlier on in this thread. The images are from when i had already manually adjusted the monitors color 'biases' and 'gains', and increased the contrast via winDAS by increaseing the DRIVE_MAX. I have since then recently increased the contrast more by increasing the C_MAX_B_MAX via winDAS.
As far as 1080p goes, i do not use it unless i have too (i only use it for watching 1080p HD-DVD's, and use 1280x1024 widescreen for games). The problem is that 1080p is cropped on both sides of the screen no matter how you adjust it. You miss about 1/2" on both sides of the screen; 1" total. Also on the far left side there is a clear 3/16" distortion that runs all the way down the screen, and on the far right side there is a thin white line that runs all the way down. It's not too much of a problem for movies, but for games i hate to lose that many pixels of peripheral vision.
Yeah I already saw those, I asked to post the new one 'cause you said you had a major improvement in 360 games.
Why don't you use 1280x1024?Games are rendered at 720p, 1280x1024 is 4:3 also.
@Mathesar: yeah, but XBR960 costs 2200$.
Still, FW900 compares very well, and this is astounding for a 2000 year-technology-monitor.
P.S.: how much did those screenshots got darker after the June update, Foe?
mathesar
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XAleX360 said:@Mathesar: yeah, but XBR960 costs 2200$.
Still, FW900 compares very well, and this is astounding for a 2000 year-technology-monitor.
P.S.: how much did those screenshots got darker after the June update, Foe?
Dont get me wrong the FW900 is an amazing CRT for PC and the 360 looks very good on it .. I just wish Microsoft would let the user tweak the VGA output (gamma / color / brightness). For example on my PC I have Digital Vibrance enabled (low setting) in my videocard options which boosts the overall color saturation, plus i have the gamma boosted slightly.
I'd be careful with digital vibrance. On my GeForce 4 and I just confirmed with DisplayMate on my GeForce 8, turning it on makes some of the shades of color drop out on the high end...
I had been using it for a while myself, but then ran into that...
I had been using it for a while myself, but then ran into that...
haste
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i have my contrast at 100 and brightness at 26
ellover009
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Here comes the hate, is there any way I can get my PS3 running on the fw900? I was thinking of HDMI converted to DVI the problem is I need a female DVI converter to VGA, would this work at all?
Foe-hammer
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No. You cannot convert HDMI digital to vga analog with a simple adapter. You'd have to get an expensive transcoder ($300-400) to do that.ellover009 said:
The other way is convert component to vga with a transcoder that would be a lot less expensive ($50-80).
mathesar
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Jenova said:
Lately I keep mine at 13 brightness / 80 contrast. The brightness setting varies greatly from FW900 to FW900 , they're all different.. Ill have to eventually use the windas cable to keep the brightness / black levels in check on mine.
GreenMonkey
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I calibrated mine as best I could with the nokia program, and I think I tossed in Digital Video Essentials as a double check (but I'm not confident that DVD playback software/drivers/etc aren't tinkering with things).
I think I'm running like 55/65 brightness/contrast or something like that.
Does DVE or Avia work OK for calibrating one of these? Any problems calibrating a monitor using them like you do an HDTV? Anybody know?
I think I'm running like 55/65 brightness/contrast or something like that.
Does DVE or Avia work OK for calibrating one of these? Any problems calibrating a monitor using them like you do an HDTV? Anybody know?
ellover009
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Foe-hammer said:
Thanks a lot man, this means it won't be cost effective for me, I got the HDMI cables, but getting the transcoder means I would have to purchase composite cables and sony has yet to release official ones, I think they are letting monster cable sell them for them wich are really overpriced at around $60.
Foe-hammer
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The major improvement was only in contrast. With more contrast i'm able to reduce the brightness to give me a rich, dark black. And in so doing so the colors are more vibrant and rich. I just love having more contrast.XAleX360 said:Yeah I already saw those, I asked to post the new one 'cause you said you had a major improvement in 360 games.
Why don't you use 1280x1024?Games are rendered at 720p, 1280x1024 is 4:3 also.
P.S.: how much did those screenshots got darker after the June update, Foe?
There is a 1280x1024 WIDESCREEN option for the 360 vga. I use this resolution over 1280x720 because it gets rid of the scanlines.
In all actuallity, i don't think the june update did crap for anything.
PS2 component cables (not composite) will work on the PS3.ellover009 said:
There are two ABL variables on the fw900. One is the ABL_CONT_LIMIT, and the other is the ABL_SHUTDOWN. They both are related to eachother. The ABL_CONT_LIMIT determins how bright (contrast) of whites will be displayed on screen until it will automatically darken the white screen for you. The ABL_SHUTDOWN has to do with if the ABL_CONT_LIMIT value exceeds ABL_SHUTDOWN value, then it will shut down the monitor. The whole purpose for this has to do with harmful radiation caused by the monitor, thereby there is a auto prevent method to keep it from exceeding harmful levels.Shotglass said:
You can fix this with winDAS and interface cable. Just see what you values are for ABL_SHUTDOWN and ABL_CONT_LIMIT, and change them to something like 125 and 150 (ABL_SHUTDOWN being the 150).
Foe-hammer
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How the hell do you delete a post?
Foe-hammer said:
Scanlines?
Do you mean black bars?I thought there would simply be a distortion from 1280x720 to 1280x800(16:10 equivalent).
I am using 1280x1024 widescreen too on my actual 4:3 CRT monitor, but it is quite a distortion. I got used to it, but in sports games it is odd. I thought with this widescreen one the distortion would have been a lot less evident...
Foe-hammer
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No, not the black bars that are on top and bottom of a 4:3 monitor for widescreen content. Scanlines are the hundreds of black lines that run horizontally across the screen on crt monitors. They are very noticable a low resolutions, such as 640x480. But i can still notice them in 720p. They make the picture look grainy and less colorful.XAleX360 said:Scanlines?
Do you mean black bars?I thought there would simply be a distortion from 1280x720 to 1280x800(16:10 equivalent).
I am using 1280x1024 widescreen too on my actual 4:3 CRT monitor, but it is quite a distortion. I got used to it, but in sports games it is odd. I thought with this widescreen one the distortion would have been a lot less evident...
1280x1024 is technically 4:3. But 1280x1024 widescreen for the 360 is 16:9 ratio, somehow. I have it streched to fill the 16:10 ratio of my fw900 monitor, and the distoration/stretching (16:9 content streched to 16:10) is minimal. To strech a 16:9 image to fill a 4:3 image would be horrible. I don't know how you could stand it.
Foe-hammer said:
There are no black bars at 720p on FW900, then?
On scanlines...You do notice them at 1280x720 but you don't at 1280x1024?
There shouldn't be much difference. Also, native resolution should be better, and it is 1280x720.
Anyway, do we have to stretch the the image manually on the FW900 or is there some automatic sort of thing?Reading the manual that I found on Sony's website I understand that it should be manual, though.
Foe-hammer
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If you want a perfect 16:9 ratio on a 16:10 monitor, then of course you will have black bars on top and bottom. About 3/4" black bar on top and another on bottom, on the fw900. To make it fill the entire fw900 screen you will have to manually adjust it like you would normally on any other pc monitor.XAleX360 said:There are no black bars at 720p on FW900, then?
On scanlines...You do notice them at 1280x720 but you don't at 1280x1024?
Also, native resolution should be better, and it is 1280x720.
Anyway, do we have to stretch the the image manually on the FW900 or is there some automatic sort of thing?Reading the manual that I found on Sony's website I understand that it should be manual, though.
Yes it is noticeable. Pixel spacing from eachother is noticeable in 720p, whereas it is not in 1280x1024 widescreen (i suspect that the 360's 1280x1024 widescreen is actually a higher resolution then normal 1280x1024 res). The V. freq. for 1280x1024 widescreen is much higher then 720p, and almost exactly the same as 1080p (only 2Hz difference, whereas there is over 20Hz difference between 720p).
Why should native be better? The 360 has a very advanced upscaler that does an excellent job. The only time you really need to worry about native resolution if if you have an LCD (matching an LCD's native resolution is much more important with it's fixed pixels then with a CRT), or when the upscaler on the console or TV does a poor job; most HDTV upscalers do not do an adequate job at upscaling games.
Foe-hammer said:
Key thing is, I'm stretching now 4:3 CRT monitor's image to widescreen to fill the entire screen(and the monitor does that automatically). Of course, I don't have a widescreen image but a 4:3 stretched one.
With the FW900, a widescreen monitor, I should have a true widescreen image with 16:9 simply slightly stretched to 16:10.
Am I correct?
With 1280x1024 widescreen do we have black bars until we manually adjust them, as well?